shocking behavior from an old friend

[journeynow]

(I'm 38, open about still being ambivilent about having kids) ... this new person (who is 36, wanting a family).

 

...Sadly, it has created a pressurized situation with the new woman, where everything is ratcheted up a bit too quickly, but, again, that'll play out as it plays out...

 

Sounds like you handled it well, and thank you for the update.

 

No need to ratchet up anything or let there be pressure. Acknowledge that you are not on the same page as the new woman. She wants a family and you are not sure, so the wise thing to do is let her go so she can get to know someone with the same foreseeable goals.

[bluecastle]

Sounds like you handled it well, and thank you for the update.

 

No need to ratchet up anything or let there be pressure. Acknowledge that you are not on the same page as the new woman. She wants a family and you are not sure, so the wise thing to do is let her go so she can get to know someone with the same foreseeable goals.

 

Yeah, it's looking like that's where this is going. Sad, because she strikes me as phenomenal, but I can already sense some underlying anxiety that's likely connected to that disconnect. My future goals are very much focused on partnership, but I believe that takes some real time to establish past the butterfly/infatuation stage—and perhaps that's time she doesn't quite have and would be better dancing in the infatuation phase with a man who is family focused from the first waltz, so to speak.

[abitbroken]

Wow -so if you are ambivalent about kids --- I take it as you are not eager don't HAVE to have them but if you met the love of your life and she wanted 10, you might have one or two because you don't dislike kids, you just don't have the clock ticking, and this new woman wants kids, its not your friend's business to make a judgement call. about how you feel.

 

But if you really do not want kids at all -- even so, it was up to you to get to know eachother and have a discovery period about eachother to find that out before you decide to continue to date.

 

If your friend was warning her about something major - like you were already married and said you were divorced or something and you weren't - then i can see her saying something

[bluecastle]

Wow -so if you are ambivalent about kids --- I take it as you are not eager don't HAVE to have them but if you met the love of your life and she wanted 10, you might have one or two because you don't dislike kids, you just don't have the clock ticking, and this new woman wants kids, its not your friend's business to make a judgement call. about how you feel.

 

But if you really do not want kids at all -- even so, it was up to you to get to know eachother and have a discovery period about eachother to find that out before you decide to continue to date.

 

If your friend was warning her about something major - like you were already married and said you were divorced or something and you weren't - then i can see her saying something

 

Thanks for this—means a lot coming from a woman. What you described is basically my exact attitude toward kids: the clock doesn't feel like it's ticking, but with the right partner, at the right time, it's certainly something I can see happening. Again, forming that kind of deep intimacy takes time for me, so I'd like to give that time and space to develop before the prospect of starting a family is front and center.

 

And like you said—I think there's a discovery window in which this stuff surfaces a bit more organically, whatever the "stuff" may be. Now I can't help but kind of feel like I'm on trial with the new woman, which isn't really the best state to be in when meeting someone new.

 

I'm hardly a guy who is secretly married, or anything that nefarious. I've never lived with a woman—a red flag, that, for some—have done my best to treat people with kindness, not always succeeding, but making amends and being accountable when I've slipped.

[IAmFCA]

It isn't about time etc., more about investing - or not - in an incompatible partnership. If she knows she wants a family and you are ambivalent --- that difference points up a major gap. Why invest is someone who isn't excited to start a family, when starting a family is her primary goal? (If that's the case.)

 

Why start any relationship with someone whose goals conflict with one's own? A dalliance, sure, but a relationship? Nah.

 

Its a drag when we meet amazing people who aren't good partners... but at least we have met someone worth knowing. That can be an infrequent occurrence and is worth being grateful.

[abitbroken]

It isn't about time etc., more about investing - or not - in an incompatible partnership. If she knows she wants a family and you are ambivalent --- that difference points up a major gap. Why invest is someone who isn't excited to start a family, when starting a family is her primary goal? (If that's the case.)

 

Why start any relationship with someone whose goals conflict with one's own? A dalliance, sure, but a relationship? Nah.

 

Its a drag when we meet amazing people who aren't good partners... but at least we have met someone worth knowing. That can be an infrequent occurrence and is worth being grateful.

 

True -- but it was up to them to determine if they were a match themselves - not have a third party stick their nose in.

They will never know now if she was someone where he got to date 10 and decided that she was the "one" and he would really want to have kids with her

Or if she would have decided that she just wanted a fun diversion to go on a few successful dates to get her confidence up.

Or she changed her mind about kid.

 

It was up to them to get to know eachother - chat about what they were looking for and decide if its a go or no go - not anyone else.

 

I don't always tell friends what my true intentions are as far as all that stuff -- what my relationship goals are. No one in my family knew i wanted kids, for example.

 

 

 

Who knows - if he had the chance to have 10 dates with her, he could decide that his socks are knocked off and he wants to settle down and have a family when the time is right with her.

WHo knows - she really could just want a quick fling - and why would she tell this mutual friend this?

 

I would be devastated if a friend told a guy "watch out - she doesn't want kids" or "she wants a hundred kids" -

[abitbroken]

Even with a compatible partner you need time to get to know them. Yes, it does take time to know if you want to have children with a person or not - i am not saying waste 8 years of someone's life, but I didn't know on the first date "i want to have babies with this man" - you get to know eachother to see how you feel

[IAmFCA]

True -- but it was up to them to determine if they were a match themselves - not have a third party stick their nose in.

They will never know now if she was someone where he got to date 10 and decided that she was the "one" and he would really want to have kids with her

Or if she would have decided that she just wanted a fun diversion to go on a few successful dates to get her confidence up.

Or she changed her mind about kid.

 

It was up to them to get to know eachother - chat about what they were looking for and decide if its a go or no go - not anyone else.

 

I don't always tell friends what my true intentions are as far as all that stuff -- what my relationship goals are. No one in my family knew i wanted kids, for example.

 

 

 

Who knows - if he had the chance to have 10 dates with her, he could decide that his socks are knocked off and he wants to settle down and have a family when the time is right with her.

WHo knows - she really could just want a quick fling - and why would she tell this mutual friend this?

 

I would be devastated if a friend told a guy "watch out - she doesn't want kids" or "she wants a hundred kids" -

 

1. Absolutely, without qualification of any sort, agree. The OF was out of her depths and, lacking a hard rule to provide guidance when her own tiller was broken - she gossiped about someone else. Her own old friend, no less. That hurts (her, too), and is a pity, and was wrong.

 

2. They have the power to close the gap, he by saying he is unclear and she by saying, well let me at explore a bit.

 

3. That said: I fell deeply in love in 3 months time with a man who was fundamentally incompatible. The friend who introduced us knew we had a religious difference that, to each of us, was incontrovertible. We assumed the other was the same as ourselves. When it finally came up, we were heartbroken. To this day, I wish we hadn't started what we couldn't finish, though we spent another 18 months wrestling with our truth.

 

If she is rigid in her desires, 3 weeks or 10 weeks wouldn't matter. When I knew I wanted kids, "mayhe" would have been a non-starter for me. Having kids is hard enough when they are someone's first priority. As my first priority, I have made choices on their behalf that I wouldn't have made if I were a "maybe".

 

The path may have been different, but for my money I bet the outcome would have been the same.

 

AND if it continues to fade, and they meet anew, they may find fresh interest despite their differences.

 

After all, we don't get to call all the shots, especially about making little humans. She may need a little time to frame the kid thing differently and appreciate other gifts in her potential future.

[IAmFCA]

Even with a compatible partner you need time to get to know them. Yes, it does take time to know if you want to have children with a person or not - i am not saying waste 8 years of someone's life, but I didn't know on the first date "i want to have babies with this man" - you get to know eachother to see how you feel

 

Some people use potential for having kids as an initial screen, as the NF (new friend) did in this instance. That makes sense to me, if it aligns with her goals, with the prioritization of her goals.

 

She could choose to pursue him anyway - if the quality of the man/comnection/RL were her #1 goal, that would make sense.

 

Maybe the man goal is even with or even secondary to her desire for having kids. If that's the case, her screening on that point is logical. I certainly know women who chose their husbands and to stay in their marriages because his partnership allows her to have the motherhood experience she seeks. The husband, in some respects, is a means to that end.

[IAmFCA]

Adding on reflection... it has certainly happened to me, where I've been weeded out because I do not want to have (more) kids. I have been told as much, very early on, even before meeting in person (when I was on line).

 

It was up to them to explore their own way. And it remained so, even after the OF made it more difficult. She simply could have said to herself, "Well, let's see how this sorts itself." It sounds like instead she said, Kids are my #1, I gotta find their dad-to-be." To me, that is a completely different sort of values/search/relationship.

[bluecastle]

This is exchange is really interesting—far more interesting than the little micro drama with my friend, frankly.

 

As a man—and, I'd at least like to think, a man who is considerate and capable of recognizing the needs/feelings of others—this is a complicated line to walk. I'm much more in the camp of abitbroken: let's go on some dates, see what happens, what feelings surface, where it goes. For me it's basically impossible to think about larger life stuff (moving in, having kids) until I have a connection with someone who makes those things less abstract.

 

But I'm sensitive to biological realities, and don't want to be leading someone down a path where, if things don't work out, I've "robbed" them of years. And with NF it's a tricky line because she puts this stuff out there, but then kind of retracts it a bit when she sees me wobble. And with all the annoying noise created my this bs OF drama, it's hard for me to see the forest for the trees, or whatever the expression is.

[nutbrownhare]

I think that working out issues which can be compromised on, and those which are completely non-negotiable, is an important task in the early days of a relationship. Unfortunately having children - or not - is one of the things where there are no halfway measures, and if you're not sure then it's better not to go ahead, simply because there would be the life of the child/ren to consider as well as your own.

 

There's a difference between wanting, say, children or marriage in a general sense, and deciding how far any particular relationship can go. As you say, it's impossible to think about the larger stuff until you've got the basic connection, but that doesn't mean that you can't have a view in a more abstract sense. For example, I've never wanted children, and the most wonderful man in the world could never have persuaded me otherwise (actually I found out a few years back that a congenital abnormality would have made it unlikely anyway, but that's another story!), so a relationship with someone who wanted a family would have been a complete non-starter.

 

So if you know your mind, and she knows hers, it would be as well to put that on the table before taking things any further.