dating pet peeve-can it be stopped?

[IAmFCA]

If these guy are gonna expect sex on the first date, then they will also pay for a $4 latte or $12.00 lunch. This is actually fairly easy compared to what guys used to do.

 

I paid for many dinners, movies, and gifts in the past, but i dont pay for first dates, esp if guys are expecting sex.

 

I dont do my makeup, i dress conservatively, and dont flirt. I dont know whats going on.

 

"especially if expecting sex" --- what?

 

Stop looking for the risk that men expect sex. Who cares what they expect; their thoughts are their responsibility.

 

Assume you don't have insight into men's minds.

 

Behave as if the men are respectful and kind. They will meet your standard.

[Philophobia]

I didn't pay for first dates. First meets are not dates -no one has asked you out -a stranger has suggested to meet to see if a date should happen in the future.

 

Of course you should wear makeup and dress in a flattering way and flirt -it's a date. Just don't make sexually suggestive remarks or be all over the guy -so that then you wouldn't be a victim- he would just reasonably assume you were up for having sex/hooking up.

 

Then they should also be clear it's a meeting, not a date, and also not ask for sex. These are guys I mostly meet on a dating website, who offer to take me out. My ex I met irl life flat out offered to take me out on a date.

 

I DO NOT flirt with them or make sexual remarks. I keep it very pg. I don't wear makeup, i dress very plainly, not flirty, still guys ask for sex on the first date.

[Batya33]

Then they should also be clear it's a meeting, not a date, and also not ask for sex. These are guys I mostly meet on a dating website, who offer to take me out. My ex I met irl life flat out offered to take me out on a date.

 

I DO NOT flirt with them or make sexual remarks. I keep it very pg. I don't wear makeup, i dress very plainly, not flirty, still guys ask for sex on the first date.

 

Well no -the assumption is when two people meet for the first time as strangers through a dating site the purpose is to see if there should be a first date. He's not asking you out - he doesn't know yet if he's interested in asking you out on a date. If he offers to take you out for a long dinner or a date-like activity simply say nicely and politely "thanks so much for the offer, I like to meet for coffee first and then we'll see if we should go on a date, ok?"

 

I think it's a mistake to wear no makeup/dress overly plainl and not flirt if you're doing that just so they don't ask for sex. Nothing to do with it at all - see my previous post -what you are doing is not looking or acting your best in a situation where there is potential to go on a date in the future.

[Philophobia]

You're right, they are wasting your time, but that's because you're dating them.

 

Skip that. Use OLD to screen potential dates and set up quick coffee meets to check one another out--maybe 15-20 minutes at most. Ground rules are that neither can ask the other for a real date on the spot, but either can contact the other afterward with an invitation. If the answer is yes, the other responds, and if not, then no response is necessary.

 

That's how you can screen out anyone who's seeking casual sex instead of wasting a whole date night on them to find that out.

 

Don't get discouraged. Most people are just not our match, and that's true of everyone. When you're clear that you're seeking a needle in the haystack, you can adopt resilience, roll with the screening, and take breaks when you're tired.

 

Allow wrong matches to pass earlye, and you're golden.

 

Head high.

 

I tried the coffee thing, and it was the same result. In fact, that guy tried to get me to have sex with him in his office.

 

I totally get that we're not all gonna be a match,.

[mustlovedogs]

What dating site? What kinds of guys do you go out with?

[Philophobia]

Well no -the assumption is when two people meet for the first time as strangers through a dating site the purpose is to see if there should be a first date. He's not asking you out - he doesn't know yet if he's interested in asking you out on a date. If he offers to take you out for a long dinner or a date-like activity simply say nicely and politely "thanks so much for the offer, I like to meet for coffee first and then we'll see if we should go on a date, ok?"

 

I think it's a mistake to wear no makeup/dress overly plainl and not flirt if you're doing that just so they don't ask for sex. Nothing to do with it at all - see my previous post -what you are doing is not looking or acting your best in a situation where there is potential to go on a date in the future.

 

I want him to get to know me, not try to have sex with me on the first date.

Ok, so if i dress sexy, flirt, will people still say, "oh no wonder he wanted sex on the first date"? I'm confused.

[Philophobia]

So to run with this comment your attitude makes me wonder whether you're actually giving off negative energy/body language -or acting in a cynical or jaded way such that the guy figures that even if you two aren't a match maybe some fun can be had (or maybe that will make you loosen up) - certainly I wouldn't react that way but it might explain the pattern

 

I haven't don't the pof thing in awhile. And i'm always in a good mood on dates. However, i do find being treated like me annoying.

[mustlovedogs]

Geeze OP. You're taking this way too far. We say one thing and you run to the extreme. Don't dress frumpy. A nice outfit and some makeup is not inherently sexy.

[Philophobia]

"especially if expecting sex" --- what?

 

Stop looking for the risk that men expect sex. Who cares what they expect; their thoughts are their responsibility.

 

Assume you don't have insight into men's minds.

 

Behave as if the men are respectful and kind. They will meet your standard.

Acting like men were respectful and kind didn't work in the past. Very, very few men met that standard.

The sex isn't just a thought. They act on it and quickly.

Almost 100% of dates i've been on, the man has expected sex right away. I can't ignore that.

[Krankor]

Like i said, i lve dayed all kinds of men, and they pretty much all try to get sex asap. I know what youre saying. Thats kind of why maybe to stick with only guys im really, really physically attracted to after all, they all treat me the same.

I have no idea how attractive you are, but let's just say you are a 7. If you were to just start dating 8's or 9's I can almost guarantee that these would be guys who are only interested in getting into your pants once or twice. The guy who will actually want to date and form a real relationship with you will be either be a 6 (or lower, but you probably wouldn't be interested) or another 7 who subjectively sees you as an 8. I know this sounds way oversimplified but it's the absolute truth about human mating behavior.

 

If a guy is objectively as or more attractive than you and is this alpha leader type he's probably not going to want more than a casual hook-up. I know that sounds harsh but it's the truth.

 

Honestly, to me the weeding out process isn't necessarily a guy hoping to get lucky right off the bat. The weeding out process is whether he'll take a "No, not on the first date; I don't do casual hook ups" and yet still call you for a second date. There's a guy who's interested in getting to know you.

[Philophobia]

I have no idea how attractive you are, but let's just say you are a 7. If you were to just start dating 8's or 9's I can almost guarantee that these would be guys who are only interested in getting into your pants once or twice. The guy who will actually want to date and form a real relationship with you will be either be a 6 (or lower, but you probably wouldn't be interested) or another 7 who subjectively sees you as an 8. I know this sounds way oversimplified but it's the absolute truth about human mating behavior.

 

If a guy is objectively as or more attractive than you and is this alpha leader type he's probably not going to want more than a casual hook-up. I know that sounds harsh but it's the truth.

 

Honestly, to me the weeding out process isn't necessarily a guy hoping to get lucky right off the bat. The weeding out process is whether he'll take a "No, not on the first date; I don't do casual hook ups" and yet still call you for a second date. There's a guy who's interested in getting to know you.

 

I get called beautiful and "wickedly gorgeous" by men and women. My last boyfriend was an alpha male, and I have dated alpha males in the past, and the current guy I'm talking to is an alpha male. I could date the last guy, but he lives far away. I don't have a problem getting alpha male boyfriend.

 

I've dated all kinds of guys, most of which are not what I'd call very attractive. I've still had the same problem where they want sex ASAP. It has nothing to do with how they look. That's why i said maybe it's better if i stick with only guys I find attractive. In fact, i have even more problems with the less attractive guys, they are the ones who flat out lie for sex.

[mustlovedogs]

Lie for sex? Elaborate?

 

Also please answer my other questions. What sites are you using.

[Krankor]

I get called beautiful and "wickedly gorgeous" by men and women. My last boyfriend was an alpha male, and I have dated alpha males in the past, and the current guy I'm talking to is an alpha male. I could date the last guy, but he lives far away. I don't have a problem getting alpha male boyfriend.

 

I've dated all kinds of guys, most of which are not what I'd call very attractive. I've still had the same problem where they want sex ASAP. It has nothing to do with how they look. That's why i said maybe it's better if i stick with only guys I find attractive. In fact, i have even more problems with the less attractive guys, they are the ones who flat out lie for sex.

So if you don't have a problem getting a real boyfriend and the kind you like what exactly is the issue? That guys want to have sex with you? Do you ever get called again by these guys? Like I said, to me that's the real test. Are they still interested once they find out they aren't getting into your pants right away.

 

I would also somewhat change the way you are approaching dating; you've gotten good suggestions here.

[j.man]

OK, you win, OP. It's unavoidable. You're simply destined to end up with a man who expects you to be waiting underneath his office desk.

 

You seem pretty determined to be an inevitable victim in this scenario and your stated relationship goal is to be a "follower," not wanting to be an "equal." It seems like a blend of diffidence and entitlement that I can't see very many healthy and self-respecting men desiring in an actual partner.

 

What do you offer, OP? And when I ask that, I don't mean whatever gifts or dinners you've treated your ex with. I mean what are you bringing the table for these men you're going on dates with? So far, all I'm getting is you want men to lead you and for them to pay for the privilege of doing so. Again, fair enough, I guess. If you want a man to lead and provide for you, disproportionately pitching in for his part, you need to meet him somewhere, in some way. You admit to not putting much work into your presentation (which on its own would be fine), so are you bringing your amazing personality to the table? You admit you don't flirt, which simply means showing interest in some way and doesn't have to be sexual in nature whatsoever. Are you having men arrange the date, lead the conversation, engage in one-sided flirting and humor, having them pay, and then honestly expecting a good result?

 

I know this is a pretty big assumption on my part, but you're frankly not giving us the details we'd need to diagnose the pattern. I think another poster correctly identified this boils down to an attitude problem. You really do come off as the sort of dated archetype of the lady who plays the role of some intricate vault door the dude has to put time and effort into unlocking before you present all your splendor, and that really doesn't fly anymore.

 

I will say that there does seem to be a trend of guys having crappy dates and kinda telling themselves, "Well, I know I don't want to see her again on an actual date, so may as well see if she's DTF. Worst case she says no and I never have to see her again anyway." I do consider it pretty sleazy, but I think Batya nailed it in that being what's essentially going on here.

 

Again, all we can do at this point is make assumptions. Either Miss Cleo cursed you on her death bed or you really, really owe it to yourself to reflect on your effort, expectations from it, and your overall approach to dating. It could be as simple as needing to take some time off to let your filter reset.

[Krankor]

Also, I'd add that it's fine to want the man to take the lead and pay, etc but you still have to do your part to make the date a good experience; dress nicely, put on a little makeup, be fun and friendly, etc. My guess is that you are giving off a vibe that is causing a lot of the guys to just say "Oh well, I guess I should just go for broke here..."

[reinventmyself]

I read this whole thread and having done a good deal of internet dating myself and after some careful screening, I can't say any man has expected or hinted about sex after meeting me face to face for the first time.

 

Why is that and why are our experiences different? I am not sure, but I have been told more than once that I have a firm but cautious vibe about me. I can be engaging and have fun, but the message comes across clearly that I don't play games and my standards are high.

 

Just something to think about.

[Batya33]

I want him to get to know me, not try to have sex with me on the first date.

Ok, so if i dress sexy, flirt, will people still say, "oh no wonder he wanted sex on the first date"? I'm confused.

 

No I wouldn't say that. I wrote that if you come on very strongly to him or talk about sex a lot on a first meet or first date then it would make sense for him to ask if you wanted to go to his place and hook up -that would be an appropriate response and two single adults can do that if that's enjoyable. Don't dress sexy -dress in a feminine, flattering way, wear makeup that does the same and flirt. Now, if you never wore makeup or dressed in a flattering way I wouldn't suggest you start but if you're stopping because you have this misguided notion that dressing in a feminine way, wearing makeup and flirting triggers a sexual response then don't stop -has nothing at all to do with that.

 

I also think you might be labeling people too much or too fast -you don't want men to presume you want sex -maybe stop presuming a man who's for all purposes a stranger is an "alpha" male or not. People are individuals and they're much more fun to get to know when you don't make those quick reflex judgments -just as you don't like when it's done to you.

[Philophobia]

No I wouldn't say that. I wrote that if you come on very strongly to him or talk about sex a lot on a first meet or first date then it would make sense for him to ask if you wanted to go to his place and hook up -that would be an appropriate response and two single adults can do that if that's enjoyable. Don't dress sexy -dress in a feminine, flattering way, wear makeup that does the same and flirt. Now, if you never wore makeup or dressed in a flattering way I wouldn't suggest you start but if you're stopping because you have this misguided notion that dressing in a feminine way, wearing makeup and flirting triggers a sexual response then don't stop -has nothing at all to do with that.

 

I also think you might be labeling people too much or too fast -you don't want men to presume you want sex -maybe stop presuming a man who's for all purposes a stranger is an "alpha" male or not. People are individuals and they're much more fun to get to know when you don't make those quick reflex judgments -just as you don't like when it's done to you.

I don't talk sexually on first dates.

 

I can mostly tell when a man is an alpha male as they have a certain aura. It's not a bad judgment, and I've always been right about who is one and who's not.

[Philophobia]

Lie for sex? Elaborate?

 

Also please answer my other questions. What sites are you using.

 

Yes, i've had men lie for sex.

I've already said, POF.

[Philophobia]

So if you don't have a problem getting a real boyfriend and the kind you like what exactly is the issue? That guys want to have sex with you? Do you ever get called again by these guys? Like I said, to me that's the real test. Are they still interested once they find out they aren't getting into your pants right away.

 

I would also somewhat change the way you are approaching dating; you've gotten good suggestions here.

 

I dont do mass dating anymore, so it isn't really an issue per se, but yes, these guys who expect sex on the first date also disappear.

[mustlovedogs]

Yes, i've had men lie for sex.

I've already said, POF.

 

Elaborate. Lie in what way.

 

Sorry I didn't read back how many pages. It's a fair question, no need to be rude.

[Philophobia]

OK, you win, OP. It's unavoidable. You're simply destined to end up with a man who expects you to be waiting underneath his office desk.

 

You seem pretty determined to be an inevitable victim in this scenario and your stated relationship goal is to be a "follower," not wanting to be an "equal." It seems like a blend of diffidence and entitlement that I can't see very many healthy and self-respecting men desiring in an actual partner.

 

What do you offer, OP? And when I ask that, I don't mean whatever gifts or dinners you've treated your ex with. I mean what are you bringing the table for these men you're going on dates with? So far, all I'm getting is you want men to lead you and for them to pay for the privilege of doing so. Again, fair enough, I guess. If you want a man to lead and provide for you, disproportionately pitching in for his part, you need to meet him somewhere, in some way. You admit to not putting much work into your presentation (which on its own would be fine), so are you bringing your amazing personality to the table? You admit you don't flirt, which simply means showing interest in some way and doesn't have to be sexual in nature whatsoever. Are you having men arrange the date, lead the conversation, engage in one-sided flirting and humor, having them pay, and then honestly expecting a good result?

 

I know this is a pretty big assumption on my part, but you're frankly not giving us the details we'd need to diagnose the pattern. I think another poster correctly identified this boils down to an attitude problem. You really do come off as the sort of dated archetype of the lady who plays the role of some intricate vault door the dude has to put time and effort into unlocking before you present all your splendor, and that really doesn't fly anymore.

 

I will say that there does seem to be a trend of guys having crappy dates and kinda telling themselves, "Well, I know I don't want to see her again on an actual date, so may as well see if she's DTF. Worst case she says no and I never have to see her again anyway." I do consider it pretty sleazy, but I think Batya nailed it in that being what's essentially going on here.

 

Again, all we can do at this point is make assumptions. Either Miss Cleo cursed you on her death bed or you really, really owe it to yourself to reflect on your effort, expectations from it, and your overall approach to dating. It could be as simple as needing to take some time off to let your filter reset.

 

Well, ok. If a man is willing to possibly impregnate me or give me an std on a first meeting, he can also pull out of a few bucks for lunch. Expecting sex with a stranger is the real entitlement here. I've said many times, I've paid for many dates, just not first dates.

 

I've been told i'm a lot of fun to be around.

 

So I'm difficult because I don't want a man to expect sex on the first date. Gotcha.

 

I don't dress super nice because I don't want them to come on to me so quickly. It doesn't seem to stop them. I want a man to get to know me. And no, they don't do all the work. I've arranged plenty of dates.

 

So, will flirting and dressing really nice make men stop asking for sex on the first date?

[Philophobia]

Elaborate. Lie in what way.

 

Sorry I didn't read back how many pages. It's a fair question, no need to be rude.

 

Lie and pretend they wanted to be my boyfriend. Later they admit it.

[Batya33]

Well, ok. If a man is willing to possibly impregnate me or give me an std on a first meeting, he can also pull out of a few bucks for lunch. Expecting sex with a stranger is the real entitlement here. I've said many times, I've paid for many dates, just not first dates.

 

I've been told i'm a lot of fun to be around.

 

So I'm difficult because I don't want a man to expect sex on the first date. Gotcha.

 

I don't dress super nice because I don't want them to come on to me so quickly. It doesn't seem to stop them. I want a man to get to know me. And no, they don't do all the work. I've arranged plenty of dates.

 

So, will flirting and dressing really nice make men stop asking for sex on the first date?

 

No, it won't "stop" it but it's a non-issue -they're not asking for sex because of how you dress or what you say or what you do. Pages ago I commented that you might come across as jaded/bitter/uninteresting (because you're being way too restrained in what you say) that they're turned off but figure you might be up for a hook up if they ask nicely.

 

Please stop thinking a first meet is a date. It's not. Don't agree to a date like activity either because why waste your precious free time on a full blown meal/evening with a stranger?

 

And no I don't think that someone who wants sex should have to treat you to dinner. Sex should be something you do because you both want to.

[Philophobia]

No, it won't "stop" it but it's a non-issue -they're not asking for sex because of how you dress or what you say or what you do. Pages ago I commented that you might come across as jaded/bitter/uninteresting (because you're being way too restrained in what you say) that they're turned off but figure you might be up for a hook up if they ask nicely.

 

Please stop thinking a first meet is a date. It's not. Don't agree to a date like activity either because why waste your precious free time on a full blown meal/evening with a stranger?

 

And no I don't think that someone who wants sex should have to treat you to dinner. Sex should be something you do because you both want to.

 

 

How do you know what my dates are like?

 

Like i've said before, Ive tried coffee meet, and the guy still tried for sex. He even tried to have sex with me after hours at his work place.

 

Whether or not they ask for sex is not a non issue, it's the very topic of this thread.

 

So if according to you i act interesting, flirty, etc they will stop asking for sex right off the bat.

 

If a man is willing to possibly impregnate me, he will at least pay for a dinner or lunch. The woman has a lot more to lose than he does, which is why traditionally men have paid. I have said ad nauseam they have have planned and paid for many dates, but i do not pay for first dates. One of the first dates with my ex i planned and paid for @$100. \

 

Also, how they ask is very deceitful. I'd rather him be honest.