I don't want to lose her, but I said foolish crap.

[katrina1980]

Well one thing is for certain--I'm not going to abuse her for sex...so I guess this thing is done. And yeah, all of you are really great. With people like her, will they only have sex with some ass that abuses them? Because I will not "abuse" anyone like that.

 

I don't think it's the fact they abuse her (per se) that attracts her.

 

It's the drama, the highs and lows, the uncertainty, the "walking on eggshells" feeling that keeps her hooked in and off balance.

 

All this stirs her emotions and passion for him.

 

As I said before, as much as she may want to feel it, the "nice" stable guy just doesn't "do it" for her sexually, emotionally, passionately in quite the same way.

[RainyCoast]

oh and your birthday is tomorrow, she'll totally take the chance to test the waters or play on your heart strings with the i still like you a lot though.

 

you just tell her she obviously needs time to debrief with herself or some help the aftermath of her last relationship, and her volatile relationship history. you are not up for dating people who have unfinished business, the dates were very nice and you wish her well. Maybe skip the explanation alltogether and just go sorry this isn't working for me. she already knows her ex is an issue, and it's not an argument worth having again. then you block.

 

she won't do anything other than maybe try to convince you really hard you misunderstood and she's over her ex, or guilt trip you with i thought you were different, i trusted you blah blah. keep the conversation really short.

 

i'm personally not opposed to phone breaks ups with dramatic people, but i'm probably in the minority.

[Jesuismieux412]

oh and your birthday is tomorrow, she'll totally take the chance to test the waters or play on your heart strings with the i still like you a lot though.

 

you just tell her she obviously needs time to debrief with herself or some help the aftermath of her last relationship, and her volatile relationship history. you are not up for dating people who have unfinished business, the dates were very nice and you wish her well. Maybe skip the explanation alltogether and just go sorry this isn't working for me. she already knows her ex is an issue, and it's not an argument worth having again. then you block.

 

she won't do anything other than maybe try to convince you really hard you misunderstood and she's over her ex, or guilt trip you with i thought you were different, i trusted you blah blah. keep the conversation really short.

 

i'm personally not opposed to phone breaks ups with dramatic people, but i'm probably in the minority.

 

Happy ing birthday...ugh Jesus...you really think she'll take that opportunity tomorrow? To play with me like that?

[boltnrun]

Because abusers, when they're not being abusive, are capable of going far beyond anything anyone can imagine with the romance.

 

There will be declarations that they are "soul mates", that the two of them are "destined to be together", that no one else will ever love them the way they do, that they'd literally die for them. And there will be over the top romantic gestures. There may be tears, self-harming, threats of suicide, and that the only way their life is worth living is if their partner (victim) is with them.

 

OR, the abuser may withhold love, resulting in the partner (victim) trying desperately to get back to the "good times" they had in the beginning. The partner (victim) will believe THEY did something to destroy the relationship (which the abuser encourages).

 

And these people KNOW they "should" stay away from their abuser, but they haven't yet figured out how to shut off their feelings for that person. So they believe since they still have feelings, that they still "love" that person, and that they should be with the person they "love".

 

How else would she know that he "screams" at her if she hadn't tried to contact him? And why would she try to contact him when SHE ended the relationship? Think about it.

[Naomi99]

She contacted me the next day, though...talked for four hours and it seemed like she forgave me.

 

Then this weekend, I asked her out for our 6th date, and she said no because my words hurt her too much.

 

She's stringing you along. If she was truly upset about your outburst, she would't have contacted you directly the next day and acted like nothing happened.

 

What a hypocrite to act all friendly, and then stonewall you for something that was discussed ad nauseum and resolved the day before.

 

If you continue on with this girl, be prepared to live blindsightedly where you do one little thing wrong, and then she acts like everything is A-okay, then the next day she holds a grudge and you're like "huh, what did I do?"

 

Having said all that, I DO believe she will contact you tomorrow for your b-day. Until then, sit tight and do not contract her or I'll rip your fingers off.

[Jesuismieux412]

She's stringing you along. If she was truly upset about your outburst, she would't have contacted you directly the next day and acted like nothing happened.

 

What a hypocrite to act all friendly, and then stonewall you for something that was discussed ad nauseum and resolved the day before.

 

If you continue on with this girl, be prepared to live blindsightedly where you do one little thing wrong, and then she acts like everything is A-okay, then the next day she holds a grudge and you're like "huh, what did I do?"

 

Having said all that, I DO believe she will contact you tomorrow for your b-day. Until then, sit tight and do not contract her or I'll rip your fingers off.

 

She didn't act like nothing happened...she gave me a bit of hell for it. Okay, I like my fingers...I will not contact.

[Naomi99]

oh and your birthday is tomorrow, she'll totally take the chance to test the waters or play on your heart strings with the i still like you a lot though.

 

YUP. I agree too.

 

If she wishes you HB, don't respond to her until you've fully thought about where you want this headed.

[Naomi99]

She didn't act like nothing happened...she gave me a bit of hell for it. Okay, I like my fingers...I will not contact.

 

Nevertheless, she still continued on a four-hour convo. And you said it seems like she forgave you. That is not consistent behavior with someone who is "upset" with someone.

[boltnrun]

Sounds like consistent behavior with her.

 

She broke up with her ex yet tried to contact him, hence the "he SCREAMS at me when I try to call him!!!" routine.

[Jesuismieux412]

Yeah, I'm still not sure if she's going to contact me again, but I'm thinking of a way to deal with it if she actually does.

[RainyCoast]

Happy ing birthday...ugh Jesus...you really think she'll take that opportunity tomorrow? To play with me like that?

you know, given that she seems to have no insight...like...at all....it may not even be conscious computation on her part. i mean it's probably not that she thinks hey let's go mess with his head and manipulate him. very few people do. they are reactionary, they don't even stop to think why they act like they do. but whether it's a conscious motive or not doesn't even matter, because we have to deal with the effects of their behavior. if a person is hung up on some jerk while i'm here jumping hoops for them, i doesn't affect anything if they're not done with the ex because of conscious reasons, unconscious reasons, or subliminal satanic messages in their favorite band's lyrics played backwards, right?

[Jesuismieux412]

you know, given that she seems to have no insight...like...at all....it may not even be conscious computation on her part. i mean it's probably not that she thinks hey let's go mess with his head and manipulate him. very few people do. they are reactionary, they don't even stop to think why they act like they do. but whether it's a conscious motive or not doesn't even matter, because we have to deal with the effects of their behavior. if a person is hung up on some jerk while i'm here jumping hoops for them, i doesn't affect anything if they're not done with the ex because of conscious reasons, unconscious reasons, or subliminal satanic messages in their favorite band's lyrics played backwards, right?

 

Haha. Yeah, I see... Either way, there's some pathology involved.

[Ms Darcy]

well obviously she'd benefit of being single for a while and finding out what attracts her to abusive dynamics like katrina said. but her behavior has me thinking she's not interested in working on herself. she is interested in always having a a partner, an emotional blanket, someone to nurse her wounds, then if the chance appears, go back to the old relationship out of codependency. as long as they have people who enable them, show them attention and affection six hours a night and put up with their fixation on their exs, they don't need to get help.

 

I think what strikes me is that we're sort of assuming the side of the OP since he's the messenger and it's his perspective. If anything, all I'm seeing is the creation of a dynamic where she gets into a relationship with the OP where HE becomes the abuser. That is far more likely than her simply "causing" a nice guy to treat her poorly. (Not saying you are saying that; that just struck me.)

[Ms Darcy]

Well one thing is for certain--I'm not going to abuse her for sex...so I guess this thing is done. And yeah, all of you are really great. With people like her, will they only have sex with some ass that abuses them? Because I will not "abuse" anyone like that.

 

Now here's something new that is concerning me: If she comes back...or WHEN she does, according to RC...how do I tell her I'm not longer interested if I choose to do so? What will she do?

 

I also wanted to comment on this for a moment.

 

Abuse is little more than a matter of perspective.

 

I could tell you that cursing a partner is emotional abuse. You could say it was an automatic reaction resulting from a lot of stress. I'm not right necessarily. But what I mean is that you both are having these loaded conversations based on your perceptions of how someone is, has, or may treat you (in this case "her").

 

Be very mindful that when things end with you and her, she could consider you as one of her abusers.

[browneyedgirl36]

They broke up a year ago and haven't spoken since then. I said something like this: "I'm tired of you talking about your ex all the time, get the f*ck over it. Do I bring up my ex all the time? No, Never. I'm sick of it."

 

Keep in mind this girl and I hit it off right off the bat...incredible chemistry, common interests, attraction, etc. I've never experienced anything like it before. We both said, "I love you" to each other last week..before this bloody mess.

 

I'm going to give her some space and see if she tries to contact me...she knows my birthday is tomorrow, so...

 

Well, she shouldn't be talking about her ex so much after five dates with you, and you should NOT have said what you did.

 

And...you love her after five dates? Whoa.

 

This just seems to be too, too much, way too soon. Too much "relationship" for only five dates (on my fifth date with my fiancee, we were just barely getting to know each other, having a great time, joking and laughing and learning all kinds of fun stuff about each other. Still are, after two years.) This is WAY too soon -- no matter how long you talk on the phone (not the same at all as seeing someone frequently in person and spending time with them).

 

And...it's WAY too soon to be having any sort of fights whatsoever. The first few months to a year should be easy -- or at least reasonably free of conflict. If you're already fighting, that's a bad, bad sign.

 

Definitely back way off. If she does contact you, see what happens from there, but...slow it down a bit. The world isn't ending tomorrow. You have plenty of time to get to know each other.

[annie24]

I also wanted to comment on this for a moment.

 

Abuse is little more than a matter of perspective.

 

I could tell you that cursing a partner is emotional abuse. You could say it was an automatic reaction resulting from a lot of stress. I'm not right necessarily. But what I mean is that you both are having these loaded conversations based on your perceptions of how someone is, has, or may treat you (in this case "her").

 

Be very mindful that when things end with you and her, she could consider you as one of her abusers.

 

i see a distinction between "effing get over your ex" and"effing get over your ex, you effing moron." One is frustration, one is abusive.

[Krankor]

OP, maybe I've missed something in all the messages but I think breaking it off with her may be a little extreme. So far I've read some yellow flags and even some red flags but no dealbreakers.

 

Yellow flag: Possible issue, proceed with your eyes open.

 

Red flag: Stop, assess in its context, and possibly move forward with eyes wide open.

 

Dealbreaker: End it immediately.

 

Yellow flag: She brings up her ex here and there.

 

Red flag: She brings up her ex pretty often.

 

Dealbreaker: She talks about her ex constantly and you find out they are still sexting.

 

Yellow flag: She mentions she was in an abusive relationship several years ago.

 

Red flag: She's been in more than one abusive relationship/her last relationship was abusive.

 

Dealbreaker: She begins to behave in an abusive manner in order to get you to abuse her back so that she can create the kind of drama and intensity that she's sickly addicted to.

 

There are several issues already that you should try to resolve but I think throwing the whole thing out the window is a bit much. Just have your eyes open with this one and proceed with caution.

 

I'm not talking about anyone in particular on this thread, but people on this site are often too quick to write off complete stranger's relationships:

 

"My boyfriend was 30 minutes late for our date yesterday."

 

"Break up with him! He's a total loser and doesn't respect your time!"

 

"I met this awesome woman and have been seeing her. But I'm a little concerned because she's only 6 months out of an LTR."

 

"Get out now! You're just a rebound! She's going to dump you and go back to her ex any day now!"

 

Again OP, there are red flags here. But it's not everyday that you meet someone you can have a connection and chemistry with. So I'd first try to resolve things and set some boundaries for a healthier (potential) relationship. If THAT doesn't work, then it may be time to cut your losses.

[RainyCoast]

If anything, all I'm seeing is the creation of a dynamic where she gets into a relationship with the OP where HE becomes the abuser.

that definitely doesn't sound impossible. in sick systems- and sick individuals who create sick systems, roles are always fixed. just different people occupying them at different times.

 

 

That is far more likely than her simply "causing" a nice guy to treat her poorly. (Not saying you are saying that; that just struck me.)

yeah, i thought it might sound like "it was called for". it's never called for to cuss a partner out, and if you're at a point where you can't get a resolution in a civil manner you should be showing them the door anyway, if a relationship where respect is a given is the only kind you'd consider.

 

that said, sulking and acting offended for being called out on her bull would not elicit a morsel of my sympathy. she's offended he talked to her like that? tough. he's offended/hurt for being played unfairly. while it doesn't warrant fowl language, it doesn't warrant his empathy either, or the insinuation that poor her is terribly distraught over a bad word. she's distraught she has been told she has minimal standards of decency to meet.

 

i agree with everyone who said "you can choose to walk then" though, legitimizing abusive language as a logical response to the other's actions is how many relationships start as abusive, and one of the reasons people have trouble leaving them- "well i pissed him off/i have this stuff in my past/i wasn't a saint either/ i put him through a lot of crap"---as if to say so i don't get to decide i'm worth better.

 

whenever i see one person entertaining someone with untreated history of volatile, abusive relationships and who throws the word borderline around like it's confetti, i can't help but think the other needs to be equally dramatic and volatile to even begin to consider it, and cussing five dates in might support the assumption.

 

op, i think the most important point you made was the unlikelihood of a person with untreated history of abuse functioning with a healthy person, because of the dynamic they're familiar with. she only knows an abusive system, and how to relate to abusers. if you don't hold a higher moral ground firmly (and usually the only way to do it is by walking away), they know exactly how to set up the stage for a battle- and know no other stage in fact, and exactly how to take the victim role- and no other. and in this terribly narrow relationship set-up of a power imbalance, that only leaves the abuser's role offered to you. if you're not drawn to the same dynamic, you decline.

[Ms Darcy]

i see a distinction between "effing get over your ex" and"effing get over your ex, you effing moron." One is frustration, one is abusive.

 

I think it's a matter of opinion and perspective.

 

Others, on this forum in fact, have called his exact words abusive when the receiver talks about the impact of the words on her.

 

I am not a big fan of labelling things as abusive but, again, members of this very forum are very quick to call lesser offenses emotional abuse.

 

Also, on the other side of things, pretty much every (abuser) calls himself a nice guy.

[spandora]

Yes she can but like I said, not with the same level of intense emotions and passion she felt with the abusive/ unstable guy.

 

Like RC said, she needs/will lean on the stable guy as more of an emotional crutch ... as opposed to feeling a strong emotional and sexual passion for him. That's my understanding of it anyway.

 

Which in her case, explains why she hesitates to have sex with you. She is just not feeling it the way she felt with her ex, or the way you feel about her.

 

She goes through the motions, but hell, I have had in-person dates that don't last as long as your phone convos every night.

 

Six hours per night, when you could be ****ing in person?

 

There is something very off about that.

 

OMG I'm learning so much about a recent situation I just found myself in, just from reading this thread. You people know what you're talking about. I dated this guy briefly who was still hung up on his abusive ex he broke up with a year ago. He ended up leaning on me as an emotional crutch and talking to me about her for hours. He still has her in his life "as a friend", even though she treats him terribly.

 

OP you gotta lose this woman. She will only cause you pain down the road.

[RainyCoast]

it doesn't bode well to start the relationship off with swearwords, but it's quite a leap from a person who says get effing over your ex to assuming they are abusers who call themselves nice guys. i would think it a bit desperate if i had to legitimize that i was on the receiving end of abuse by arguing that some people will scream abuse for much less. yes people who don't want to be held accountable portray themselves as victims when held accountable. i dunno who set them up as the norm and when, but it's a norm i'd not feel obliged to internalize, nor would i want op to internalize it.

 

 

i said foolish crap (when referring to a statement that she can't keep bringing her ex up) and now i'm going to lose her stupid guilty me is actually quite typical behavior for emotionally abused people manipulated into thinking they need to allow the other whatever the other wishes and renounce all demands for fairness and reciprocity, as is their effort to keep the other comfortable for hours on end and not daring to decline. and yet we didn't tangentially pull out the she's abusing you argument.

[Krankor]

I think it's a matter of opinion and perspective.

 

Others, on this forum in fact, have called his exact words abusive when the receiver talks about the impact of the words on her.

 

I am not a big fan of labelling things as abusive but, again, members of this very forum are very quick to call lesser offenses emotional abuse.

 

Also, on the other side of things, pretty much every (abuser) calls himself a nice guy.

I think even the tone in which the words were said can make a difference. Take this sentence: "Why can't you just effing get over your ex? You don't hear me going on about mine." First picture it said in a whining, pleading tone, then said in an aggressive, angry, growling voice.

 

I wouldn't label what he said as abusive simply because then anyone who's ever lost patience and snapped at his/her partner would be abusive. But it wasn't OK for him to talk to her like that and it shouldn't be defended as such. And if that becomes his normal way of talking to her then I think it may be right to call him verbally abusive.

[Ms Darcy]

it doesn't bode well to start the relationship off with swearwords, but it's quite a leap from a person who says get effing over your ex to assuming they are abusers who call themselves nice guys. i would think it a bit desperate if i had to legitimize that i was on the receiving end of abuse by arguing that some people will scream abuse for much less. yes people who don't want to be held accountable portray themselves as victims when held accountable. i dunno who set them up as the norm and when, but it's a norm i'd not feel obliged to internalize, nor would i want op to internalize it.

 

 

i said foolish crap (when referring to a statement that she can't keep bringing her ex up) and now i'm going to lose her stupid guilty me is actually quite typical behavior for emotionally abused people manipulated into thinking they need to allow the other whatever the other wishes and renounce all demands for fairness and reciprocity, as is their effort to keep the other comfortable for hours on end and not daring to decline. and yet we didn't tangentially pull out the she's abusing you argument.

 

Well, maybe I am not being direct enough in my perspective.

 

1. I think it's pretty disturbing that several posters have basically said that how he spoke to her was OK. I don't think that's OK. I think it's minimizing her stated concerns by minimizing it to just "swearwords" or "snapping." Can they get past that? Absolutely. But not by making it all her fault.

 

2. Do I think the OP is an abuser? There's definitely not enough evidence to say that. But I think if we are to assume a few things are true - that she has a history of abusive relationships and that he (according to him) had an emotional outburst as a result of his strong feelings towards her - this is bad news. Add the too much too soon of everything, 6 hour nightly calls are the least of it, less than 2 months in and there are serious flags that the relationship could become abusive if it continued in this high octane way. And that's not a cut on the OP. It's a warning. It's a note to be very careful to beware of situations that careen into too much too soon.

 

3. "... it's quite a leap from a person who says get effing over your ex to assuming they are abusers who call themselves nice guys." That IS quite a leap." I should have quoted another post ... which I was opining on ... said: "When a "nice" man comes along, try as she might, she is unable to feel the same level of intense emotions and passion she felt with the abusive/unstable guy."

 

I said that "Also, on the other side of things, pretty much every (abuser) calls himself a nice guy." Nothing about someone who curses out a gf are abusers who call themselves nice guys.

[RainyCoast]

i think you are being direct enough in your perspective. it's just not a universally internalized perspective.

[RainyCoast]

it'll be tomorrow when you're back on OP: Happy birthday!!

 

 

 

 

 

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