Men ALWAYS stare at me?!

[pippy longstocking]

I will say what I would say to my own nearly 17 yr old ...get your head from up your @ss and stop presuming there is only you on planet earth !!!!

[IAmFCA]

This kind of thinking is what comes from portraying men as some slobbering mindless sex monsters who don't think about anything but their penis. It's just not true. Men like women. It's this same bs that gives rise to women thinking that erectile dysfunction is somehow about her.

 

A guy looks at you. It's your choice to assume that he's undressing you with his eyes or taking disrespectful mental liberties with you. You control that narrative.

 

But I can tell you that in the 3 seconds he's looking at you, it's much more likely that he thinks something like:

 

"Wow, she's pretty...Wait. She seems kinda young...Yeah, definitely too young for me. Still pretty though. Well, nevermind, I need to get what I came here for. If I don't have the Johnson Report done by Wed. my boss is gonna be pissed".

 

than that he's concocting elaborate sexual fantasies about you and running off to the bathroom to fire one off.

 

OP described sustained looking, leering, the up and down body scan.

 

My post refers to the experience of being leered at in an obviously sexual manner, never once refers to all men, nor to the casual look we often give to attractive people of either gender.

 

If someone is looking me up and down, it is not a compliment. In any circumstance.

 

If someone is looking kindly for that three second, oh she's pretty - its neither remarkable nor the sort of look the OP describes in her original post.

[Butterflyxx]

OP described sustained looking, leering, the up and down body scan.

 

My post refers to the experience of being leered at in an obviously sexual manner, never once refers to all men, nor to the casual look we often give to attractive people of either gender.

 

If someone is looking me up and down, it is not a compliment. In any circumstance.

 

If someone is looking kindly for that three second, oh she's pretty - its neither remarkable nor the sort of look the OP describes in her original post.

 

I understand that not all men are like that, however there are a select few that look me up and down in a sexual manner, and I find it very uncomfortable and disgusting. It's the men who are 30, 40 years older than me who do it, notice that I've seen and still continue to look at me.

I don't think many individuals here understand that it is very uncomfortable and I hate it.

[Butterflyxx]

I will say what I would say to my own nearly 17 yr old ...get your head from up your @ss and stop presuming there is only you on planet earth !!!!

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're on about here.

By saying that I find it disgusting and revolting that men 40 years older than me, looking me up and down slowly and whistling etc, that in no way means that my head is in my arse?!

I find it disgusting and inappropriate.

[mhowe]

I think we are clear on that.

[ParisPaulette]

Here's what people don't get or don't remember. Being 17 is hard, it's hard if you're a woman, it's hard if you're a guy. Gah, we wouldn't bash her if she were a teenage guy on here saying, "I'm afraid every time the older female neighbors that are my mom's age stare at me and look me up and down" and yes that's happened to guys I know. It's equally uncomfortable for them.

 

No one likes the stare of a predator--no one. And when you're young it's dang hard to tell the difference and it's even tougher to go from "people don't notice you, because you're a kid" to suddenly it feels like the world and some adults who should feel protective to you, who should respect your newness to the whole idea of dating and relationships and romance instead see you as prey or someone to use. We aren't talking nice people just nodding and telling the girl hello. If you'd bother to read her post you'd see that wasn't what she was upset about it. It was the discomfort of someone suddenly noticing people as old as her parents staring at her in an unfriendly and hostile way, because yes what she's describing is hostile.

 

Big big difference in the guy who smiles and nods hello as you walk past or even pays you a genuine nice compliment and the guy that makes you fear you'll be on a missing poster if you let them get within grabbing reach of you.

 

That's what this girl is talking about and yes I'd give the exact same advice to a teenage boy writing about that issue. it's just most boys aren't going to speak up as much about it, but trust me they get it. I once had to get physically aggressive with a man who went after my then 17-year-old son, my oldest. I won't fill anyone in on the details, but let's just say all three of my boys know how to fight, know what to watch for when they're on the street, understand that looking at you is one thing, but coming at you is a line crossed that now takes this into a zone of potential battle. And I didn't raise my boys to be victims, I was nearly a victim myself a few times until I got tough and street smart when I was younger. And that's just the way it is. There are predators, it's not a soft nice world always. But no one has to be a victim or downplay the issue either.

 

OP be smart, be armed with some knowledge and your own gut and intuition, learn to take care of yourself and yes anyone around you too. I won't soft sell things and maybe I'm wrong for that, been told I'm wrong for that actually, and I don't care. Niceness can get tossed in the trash and you can always apologize later if it turns out you were wrong.

 

But no adult has any business leering at underage kids, boy or girl, end of story. Bad enough when you're an adult, but as an adult woman or man you at least have some experience under your belt and can hopefully handle things a bit better. As a teenager or kid though, it's just one more thing you have to learn in the world. That's why OP was asking for advice.

 

Self-defense, martial arts, confidence building exercises, assertiveness training. If I were queen of the world every boy and girl would be taught these from the time they are 4. We'd see a far better world in my opinion if such activities were just part of every person's education. Just my thoughts.

 

P.S. OP, great book for you to read and take to heart "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. It will teach you more about how to listen to yourself, what may or may not be a dangerous situation, than anything I or anyone else can tell you on this forum. It's a good book, read it, it can help too.

[Seraphim]

Being a teenager was my least favorite stage of life without a doubt.

[itsallgrand]

I remember being 17 and being uncomfortable with the glares and comments too. Especially from much older men. I wished at the time someone would validate my experience, so I'm going to validate yours. You aren't nuts for thinking and feeling that some of it is weird and off. Some of it is. And you aren't nuts or immature or full of yourself for feeling somewhat overwhelmed by all the attention you are getting either.

It comes with the territory of being female, young, and pretty. Men are starting to notice you, as a woman. Some of those men are good, some of them not so good. Some harmless, some not so harmless.

There are still way too many people out there who think and act on the belief that a 17 young woman is fair game for the adult world of sexuality, and there are still too many people out there too who downplay the experiences a lot of young girls/women go through while trying to get comfortable in their new sexuality and bodies.

 

Now the bulk of people are rather harmless. They see a pretty young woman, they look. And you are right, a lot aren't thinking "wonder if this makes her uncomfortable or not". But you know what? Some do. Some people will actually consider you in how they behave towards you. Those are the people you want to place more of your attention to. Don't become fixated on what you don't like, look for the positive experiences to make this time smoother for you. And it's the most difficult time; the older you get, the more experience you get in the world, the easier this becomes to navigate, and also the less obnoxious lurid attention you will tend to get. The obnoxious and super uncomfortable glares and comments are mostly coming from people who specifically direct them at very young women for the very reason that those the ones the most vulnerable.

 

I found it disillusioning in my teens, when my body now looked womanly, to find out that some of the men who I had looked at as a little girl were actually capable of being sexually attracted to me now. And that some of these people I thought were ok as a little girl, I really didn't feel that way about anymore as a woman. It can be a bumpy transition to accepting that and also accepting your own new sexuality too, all at the same time.

[HeartGoesOn]

Mod note: Let's keep the replies at a respectful level, please.

[Seraphim]

I remember being 17 and being uncomfortable with the glares and comments too. Especially from much older men. I wished at the time someone would validate my experience, so I'm going to validate yours. You aren't nuts for thinking and feeling that some of it is weird and off. Some of it is. And you aren't nuts or immature or full of yourself for feeling somewhat overwhelmed by all the attention you are getting either.

It comes with the territory of being female, young, and pretty. Men are starting to notice you, as a woman. Some of those men are good, some of them not so good. Some harmless, some not so harmless.

There are still way too many people out there who think and act on the belief that a 17 young woman is fair game for the adult world of sexuality, and there are still too many people out there too who downplay the experiences a lot of young girls/women go through while trying to get comfortable in their new sexuality and bodies.

 

Now the bulk of people are rather harmless. They see a pretty young woman, they look. And you are right, a lot aren't thinking "wonder if this makes her uncomfortable or not". But you know what? Some do. Some people will actually consider you in how they behave towards you. Those are the people you want to place more of your attention to. Don't become fixated on what you don't like, look for the positive experiences to make this time smoother for you. And it's the most difficult time; the older you get, the more experience you get in the world, the easier this becomes to navigate, and also the less obnoxious lurid attention you will tend to get. The obnoxious and super uncomfortable glares and comments are mostly coming from people who specifically direct them at very young women for the very reason that those the ones the most vulnerable.

 

I found it disillusioning in my teens, when my body now looked womanly, to find out that some of the men who I had looked at as a little girl were actually capable of being sexually attracted to me now. And that some of these people I thought were ok as a little girl, I really didn't feel that way about anymore as a woman. It can be a bumpy transition to accepting that and also accepting your own new sexuality too, all at the same time.

Exactly, I remember being sexually harassed by random men on the street as a pre teen ( I developed at 10 and started to look much older than my chronological age) and teenager . It was horrible.

 

What we have to remember though is that this is not most men.

[j.man]

Why are you wearing leggings as pants

[IAmFCA]

Why are you wearing leggings as pants

 

Irrelevant.

[Willywagtail]

Why are you wearing leggings as pants

 

What a ridiculous thing to ask.

[ParisPaulette]

I think OP is talking about leggings worn under a skirt or shorts--I.e. her legs aren't bare, she's not flashing cleavage, etc. She's dressing the way millions of girls her age dress. And puhlease let's not go into the whole debate about dress, that is not the issue here. OP was very specific about not dressing to attract attention. And she's 17 looking 16 or younger, obviously is a teenage girl. Grown men have zero business popping their eyeballs at a woman young enough to be their daughter or granddaughter. Period, end of story.

 

I wasn't okay with it when older men and women goggled my boys either when it was very obvious they were not grown men.

 

Bottom line, people need to respect each other and our younger generations need to be treated with respect and dignity, both girls and boys.

[TMifune]

Grown men have zero business popping their eyeballs at a woman young enough to be their daughter or granddaughter. Period, end of story.

 

I wasn't okay with it when older men and women goggled my boys either when it was very obvious they were not grown men.

 

Bottom line, people need to respect each other and our younger generations need to be treated with respect and dignity, both girls and boys.

 

I'm on board with every piece of advice you gave that was meant to empower the OP. What I don't like is this. Not only does it shame men for a fact of their biology, it perpetuates the notion that she's the victim of looks that she "shouldn't" be getting.

 

I'll be more sympathetic to this viewpoint when old dogs stop sniffing the butts of young dogs, or old peacocks don't fluff up their plumage for reproductively viable females because they're "too young."

 

And I'm all for challenging both men and women to be more than just their biological reactions, but I don't think it does any good to deny that those biological underpinnings exist, and I don't think it does OP any good to internalize a message that men looking at her makes her some kind of victim.

[sophie274]

Im quite sure the op is referring to leggings worn as pants. This is current and acceptable and stylish fashion in many parts of the world. However, it's true that it's about as revealing as you can go without being in swimwear. I imagine the OP is just dressing the way most of her friends are.

[IAmFCA]

To test myself, ive been asking myself - what do I do when i see a man on the street wearing revealing clorhing - or no.clothing, as has happened a couple of.times. You know what? I am.not a hypocrite. I look for a minute and think Nice arms or whatever, and then I am.on to something else.

 

I don't care what a woman wears. If its inappropriate, of course unscrupulius people will look. In truth, none of us should. Not for more than a moment. If anyone gives her the up and down I own your body leer, that's on him.

 

That is crystal, neon, bullhorn.clear. There is never a time she is responsible for his actions.

 

End of discussion.

[Butterflyxx]

Thank you for all of your responses. I was not aiming this thread towards all men, however a select few and I now have a better insight on how to deal with this issue, and I hope both guys and girls understand too.

[ParisPaulette]

To address those who keep insisting OP was somehow being a victim--no she wasn't. She was asking for advice, which makes her anything but. A victim would have said nothing, would have kept her head down, let it psychologically eat at her, and maybe whined quietly to her friends and/or family about it. She wouldn't have had the guts to try to get feedback from an adult population of women and yes men who are strangers.

 

OP you are anything but a victim for having the guts to do that. I wouldn't have at your age, didn't actually. One is never a victim for asking for help, for speaking out about something that bothers them, for asking advice. Never. For any reason. And that includes boys and men too. No one is a victim who speaks out, quite the opposite. It's called speaking up and asking what can be done about it and that's always a good thing.

 

And excusing such behaviors as being about biology makes about as much sense as saying all men cheat, because they can't help themselves, it's "biology." Or all women lie because we're deceitful or all (fill in gender) do this because of "gender." Except that's not true, it's a lie. People, men and women, have free will--each of us make a conscious knowing choice whether to follow the law and treat each other with dignity and respect or not. A conscious choice. We as humanity decided to ignore "just biology" a long time ago or we'd still be living in caves and clubbing each other over the head.

 

Biology be screwed, I'm going with reason and free will. Some guy has free will and sure he can leer at an underage girl and sure she has equal free will to find that not acceptable and to not like it. We are all more than puppets on a string if we choose to be.

 

OP, you can choose. And I'd say for your age you're already ahead of the game for even speaking up and asking. So many people just accept, "But that's the way it is, get used to it." With attitude we'd still have segregation and people being killed for a variety of reasons. And yes, those things still exist sadly, but more and more people are fighting back against it. Just because something always was, is no excuse to let it be now.

 

And that's the human rights warrior in me speaking up for both men and women. Rise above, be more than your biology, make a civilization where everyone is free to walk and talk and be. (Sorry, didn't mean to make this isn't a poem there. Laughs)

[tiredofvampires]

It's a little disturbing to me how a young, underage girl can come to a group of mostly-adults to talk about her discomfort or fear about older men eyeing her in public, and some people will take that opportunity to air out all their own adult issues with the opposite sex. The internet is probably not the best place to get careful advice and guidance about how to navigate growing up. It's full of people who have forgotten their own teenage vulnerability, forgotten that teens are not adults psychologically with adult ingrained expectations, and that teens are asking questions about their bodies in a way that isn't tainted with the same "motivations" that adults ask questions.

 

A trusted school counselor or other trusted adult role model in real life, who is non-biased and only out to help you talk through your concerns, is your best bet, OP. Be careful about getting information about how you should behave or feel from the internet, because it's kind of a free-for-all, and a lot of people are coming from a place of personal bias of one kind or another, or a kind of spectator love of virtual blood sport, not a sensitivity to you and your questions. I especially would take with a pinch of salt males who are strangers who have no children of their own, are not teachers or guidance counselors in any vein, and are only coming from a "male point of view" rather than having an educated understanding of the young adult female brain.

 

The fact of the matter is that rape is probably the most frightening thought to women, and as you're growing into your own as a woman, suddenly instinctually feeling you could become a target is something every young adult should be talking about. Rape happens to men as well, but female-on-male rape is fairly rare, and a woman dragging a young male off the street into her car or into the bushes to brutally rape him -- it would make world headline news. So men are not born with this fear built in, kicking in at a certain age. I certainly see young men thinking that older women hitting on them is "gross", but that's not the same as the streak of fear of harm that a grown woman has to develop a sixth sense for.

 

I agree with all the posters who have said you should take a self-defense course to feel more empowered OP, and also do your research on how to handle yourself best with strange men. A lot of women posters have laid that out for you. However, I have found individual situations calling for individual responses. It is best not to respond to whistles or calls, and generally speaking, to keep walking with your head held high. But I've also been in situations where it felt better to quickly nod at someone, say, "have a good day" with minimal friendliness, and keep moving. You'll always have to use your own instincts.

 

Having said all that, I do want to address the thing about biology and leering. Possibly my less "politically correct" part of this post. There is something that drives men, OP, which has been stamped into them from prehistoric times, and it it this: their biological purpose is to find women to fertilize and continue the species. So in their more primal brain, the object is to scope out the woman who looks most fertile, and that would be partly youthfulness. A young woman who is at the start of her fertility, which you are, is attractive to a man's primal instincts. So you can take a man of 16 or 26 or 46, and it won't make too much difference. Society has made huge age gaps taboo, and lots of men in their 40's, who are, yes, inappropriately matched to a girl your age, want a woman who has similar life experience and maturity as phases of life go. So, someone age-matched. That's their higher brain function at work. But even if it seems gross to you, men are still wired in some way to see youthfulness as sexually appetizing, which is why a lot of adult entertainment depicts older women (even women just a few years older than you) looking younger than their age. Through the lens of what is appropriate behavior socially, it's really icky and you have every reason to feel grossed out. But it might be informative for you to know that it's rather normal for men, through a biological lens, to have something built into them that makes them do this; so they aren't all pervs.

 

That doesn't mean of course that "leering" and staring at you is okay. I'm not sure where "looking" stops and "leering" begins, but if a guy won't take his eyes off of you and is whistling or making sexualized comments, obviously he is in control of that, through his higher brain centers, and that's on him to behave more responsibly. Even if a man has a thought "she's attractive", he doesn't have to act on that with a behavior that makes himself so obvious that it makes someone uncomfortable. It's like staring at someone with a hideous birth mark -- you are free to think what you want about it, and it may not even make you a "bad person" to have a certain impression which you can't help, but to keep staring at the person is under your control and not cool.

 

As someone else said, OP, most men are quite harmless in this process, and for what it's worth, if they are looking at you without being crass, chalk it up to your being attractive to them and nothing more. As others said in the beginning of this thread, it's part of being a woman to sometimes be looked at, and there are a lot of women who feel unattractive who complain that no guys ever look their way. So you can reflect on all sides of this to develop a balanced view, which keeps you safe but also puts this matter into perspective.

[TMifune]

To address those who keep insisting OP was somehow being a victim--no she wasn't. She was asking for advice, which makes her anything but.

 

Except nobody was calling the OP a victim. My assertion was that focusing on what men should and shouldn't be doing is more likely to lead her to adopting a mentality that she's being victimized when these things happen. Like I said, I agree with all of the advice you gave that empowers her. What men do and don't do is quite literally something she cannot control. She can control what she thinks of it and how she responds to it, but focusing on what men "should" be doing is pretty much guaranteed to leave her feeling impotently powerless about something that she finds upsetting.

 

Just for the record I've noticed many people around here like to make general posts that are clearly in direct response to a single poster, but yet they couch them in more general terms to maintain some kind of weird deniability that it was intended for a particular poster. I find it pretty passive-aggressive and generally disrespectful. Couple that with grossly misrepresenting my statement and well....I guess I'd just like people to understand the portrait of respect that I think they paint with that kind of behavior. It isn't exactly a pretty one.

[pippy longstocking]

I am going to try and word this better than my last post ...because this case is clearly split on opinion ..that'sók . its a forum , it is what happens and everyone who has written here I have a huge amount of respect for .

 

The op ..a 17 yr old girl ..who has said she looks younger ..so we are talking about 15/16 yrs old ..she feels like every man is staring at her , leering at her , looking her up and down ..from 18 -50 .....

 

as a woman in my 40's I can assure you butterfly that the *majority* of men would be sickened if you look so young to be fawning over you in their mind ..quite the opposite ..there are a lot of men rules out there and most will look at you as a daughter because the majority will have daughters that age or older .. this is going on your words by the way that you look under 17 ...you describe it as though these men make you feel sick looking you up and down at your age .... well how do you know how old they are ?

 

I just do not and will not believe that every man aged 18-50 is eyeing you up with lustful thoughts , and how would you know , you must be equally staring at all these men to know they are all staring at you.

 

I believe you think something is happening that actually isn't .

[boltnrun]

Well, I used to date a guy who had teenage daughters (age 16 at the time) who would have sleepovers with their friends. The girls would be running around the house in their underwear (bras and panties) and he told me it was really hard not to look because the girls were really, really hot. And this guy DID have daughters (four of them to be exact, all of them teens at the time).

 

But then again, he was a pig.

 

But I don't agree that a majority of men would see her as a daughter. I think they would look and enjoy what they see. Not to say they are going to act, just that they probably think "wow", then just go on with their days. Regardless of whether or not she looks 15, 16 or 18.

 

I went to Catholic school as a teen, and my friends and I would walk to the local burger joint after school in our uniforms. You would not believe the number of leers, catcalls, whistles and rude suggestions we got! And we were only 15 and 16 at the time. But we were feisty...we'd shout "go away, you perv!" Hee. Apparently there's something about girls' Catholic school uniforms that turns a lot of men on. Go figure.

[Dottieflanogon]

I went to Catholic school as a teen, and my friends and I would walk to the local burger joint after school in our uniforms. You would not believe the number of leers, catcalls, whistles and rude suggestions we got! And we were only 15 and 16 at the time. But we were feisty...we'd shout "go away, you perv!" Hee. .

 

I like this way to shut them up and put those pervs in place

[IAmFCA]

Two men were golfing (friends of mine). They are about 555 - 60 years old. One ogled a woman at the pool, from a distance. The other said Hey Stop that! That's my daughter! (who was 17 at the time)

 

This is not the scenario OP describes, but I offer it to illustrate that age is often not obvious to us old folks.

 

Just today I got the full "oohhh look at that walk" treatment from some men I walked past. I just held my arms to the side as I passed, like a shrug. What do I care.