Unattractive (physically) beating out the attractive (mentally)

[Batya33]

People assume that I'm not trying to change. I'm actually working on losing a bit more weight, but I can't lose 20 lbs and get ripped instantly. Plus, many women say that having a great body isn't exactly a turn-on.. so I get mixed feedback.

 

It's wonderful to lose weight and improve your health. Being healthy and fit is always a turn-on and that has nothing to do with being ripped. Whoever told you to make instant changes?

 

I don't see you wanting to change your behavior and attitude. For example, do you find it effective, socially, to make dirty jokes and act like a goofball?

[Dougie_D]

It's wonderful to lose weight and improve your health. Being healthy and fit is always a turn-on and that has nothing to do with being ripped. Whoever told you to make instant changes?

 

I don't see you wanting to change your behavior and attitude. For example, do you find it effective, socially, to make dirty jokes and act like a goofball?

 

I don't do those things in public settings. I only act like a goofball when I'm with friends at my house or at a party. Where people already have met me.

[Moontiger]

People assume that I'm not trying to change. I'm actually working on losing a bit more weight, but I can't lose 20 lbs and get ripped instantly. Plus, many women say that having a great body isn't exactly a turn-on.. so I get mixed feedback.

 

That's because different women want different things. Women are people (shocking I know) with individual thoughts, feelings, and opinions. My best friend and I have completely different taste in men both physically and personality wise. Another good friend of mine finds guys attractive that I think are....not, to put it mildly. I have friends who LOVE beards and friends who cannot stand them, friends who will only date fit men and friends who HATE muscel-y guys.

 

The question is NOT what do women want, rather its "What kind of woman do I want? Am I the kind of person that kind of person would want?"

[Dougie_D]

That's because different women want different things. Women are people (shocking I know) with individual thoughts, feelings, and opinions. My best friend and I have completely different taste in men both physically and personality wise. Another good friend of mine finds guys attractive that I think are....not, to put it mildly. I have friends who LOVE beards and friends who cannot stand them, friends who will only date fit men and friends who HATE muscel-y guys.

 

The question is NOT what do women want, rather its "What kind of woman do I want? Am I the kind of person that kind of person would want?"

 

That's the problem. I'm actually NOT into "fit" girls. I am actually attractive to bar fly types. Metal chicks, punk rock, scene girls. Women who aren't athletic but love watching college sports. Sorry to say, but women who like to run, bike, do those marathon things is just not me. I'm actually into sorority type women. Also, I love the southern charm types. (I'm from the south too)..

I could date a hipster girl for sure too.

The problem is, I think I'm just too plain or not "bad boy" enough. I have no tattoos. I don't come off like the stereotypes of the male counterpart, if that makes sense

[Moontiger]

That's the problem. I'm actually NOT into "fit" girls. I am actually attractive to bar fly types. Metal chicks, punk rock, scene girls. Women who aren't athletic but love watching college sports. Sorry to say, but women who like to run, bike, do those marathon things is just not me. I'm actually into sorority type women. Also, I love the southern charm types. (I'm from the south too)..

I could date a hipster girl for sure too.

The problem is, I think I'm just too plain or not "bad boy" enough. I have no tattoos. I don't come off like the stereotypes of the male counterpart, if that makes sense

 

Ok, this is something I think we can work with. It sounds like you like girls that have a slight edge to them. You don't like the athetic/gym rat type. So, the question then becomes why do you like those types of women? Where can you meet them? And most importantly do you have the qualities they are looking for? If not, how can you get those qualities? Or do you need to re-evaluate your "type"? I had to do that a few times in my life.

[Dougie_D]

Ok, this is something I think we can work with. It sounds like you like girls that have a slight edge to them. You don't like the athetic/gym rat type. So, the question then becomes why do you like those types of women? Where can you meet them? And most importantly do you have the qualities they are looking for? If not, how can you get those qualities? Or do you need to re-evaluate your "type"? I had to do that a few times in my life.

I probably like those types because I grew up like that among my friends? I have friends that are into fitness and then I have friends who aren't, but the common interest was always the music aspect. But I never dressed or acted the part. For instance, all my band mates wore punk style clothing, tatoos, did drugs too.. But I was clean cut. I just wore khakis , polo shirt, and would rather play golf then go somewhere to "smoke".

I don't know what qualities they are looking for, besides your stereotypical bad boy rocker type. I've been dressing more hipster? I guess, but I'm not into indie/folk music and I'm not knowledgable about beers.

I'm like a plain Joe I guess. I'm not a stereotype. My girl roommate thinks I'm a nerdy type because I play video games.. But I play sports games.. And I don't care for Comic Con,etc..

[Moontiger]

I probably like those types because I grew up like that among my friends? I have friends that are into fitness and then I have friends who aren't, but the common interest was always the music aspect. But I never dressed or acted the part. For instance, all my band mates wore punk style clothing, tatoos, did drugs too.. But I was clean cut. I just wore khakis , polo shirt, and would rather play golf then go somewhere to "smoke".

I don't know what qualities they are looking for, besides your stereotypical bad boy rocker type. I've been dressing more hipster? I guess, but I'm not into indie/folk music and I'm not knowledgable about beers.

I'm like a plain Joe I guess. I'm not a stereotype. My girl roommate thinks I'm a nerdy type because I play video games.. But I play sports games.. And I don't care for Comic Con,etc..

 

From what you are saying and what I have seen from your other threads, the impression I get is that of someone without a strong idenity. A little of this a little of that, but committed to none. There is nothing wrong with have varried interests but if you don't have a strong inner idenity it is going to be pretty hard for others to connect with you.

 

Edit: Just for the record, my current guy, I NEVER would have been attracted to him in my teens or early twenties. He was a jock in school (yuck!) but now he is a nerdy 30 something who loves dogs, beer, biking, and owns three kilts. He knows who he is and makes no apologies for it while always being on some kind of self improvement path.

[HeartGoesOn]

Dougie...Haven't we been down this road before?

[tiredofvampires]

What comes across to me in every one of your posts/threads, and I've said this before, is that you feel immature and childish. These discussions reflect that. How do you overcome that? I have no quick answers, because I can't tell you how to "grow up" (though some traits have been pointed out to you as less desirable and clearly, they are not amenable to change); but I can tell you that you'd have to find someone who sees some charm in that. Truthfully, that's not going to be easy, so you have to think outside your box. Aside from overhauling your whole personality, I think you just might have to accept that this is generally not well-received by women. If you can't change it, your only other choice is to accept it and look for the lid to your pot.

 

We can all relate to some of the superficial aspects of attraction -- body types, social niches, musical "types", but frankly, the last of those discussions and concerns for me took center stage in high school and maybe early college. You like "sorority types"? You realize you're about 15 years past that phase of life, for yourself and any woman who might look your way? I'm just giving hard examples of what I'm talking about. I think it's very possible women look at you and see a boy, not a man -- as if you froze in high school. Not having sexual experience to build on isn't the issue; the issue is that you come off as generally not grown up, with the experience that comes with increasing chronological maturity. Even a virgin could be worldly wise in other ways and insightful about human nature, but you seem to be removed from these qualities (and I stand by my Asperger's hunch.)

 

For this reason, I don't think "game" is something you'll ever have, and the types of girls you might attract would not be in the crowds you're looking in.

 

I think you could be very happy with a nerdy, geeky girl with a slightly lazy eye and a happy-go-lucky streak. But you're not going to find her until you broaden your horizons, and also stop hoping to score with girls who could feature in Whitesnake videos.

 

If I were you, I'd go to one social event you would never catch yourself dead at once a month, and see what happens.

 

Your other option is, as I have said before, to go to therapy. And maybe try to figure out why you froze in high school. There are a lot of unresolved issues in that pot, with off-putting behaviors unconsciously tied to it. I still think this is your best bet. All the rest is window dressing and bandaids.

[Batya33]

Dougie you wrote above that when you first meet people you like to crack dirty jokes and be a goofball. That was in response to being asked how you behave when you meet people/women.

[Dougie_D]

What comes across to me in every one of your posts/threads, and I've said this before, is that you feel immature and childish. These discussions reflect that. How do you overcome that? I have no quick answers, because I can't tell you how to "grow up" (though some traits have been pointed out to you as less desirable and clearly, they are not amenable to change); but I can tell you that you'd have to find someone who sees some charm in that. Truthfully, that's not going to be easy, so you have to think outside your box. Aside from overhauling your whole personality, I think you just might have to accept that this is generally not well-received by women. If you can't change it, your only other choice is to accept it and look for the lid to your pot.

 

We can all relate to some of the superficial aspects of attraction -- body types, social niches, musical "types", but frankly, the last of those discussions and concerns for me took center stage in high school and maybe early college. You like "sorority types"? You realize you're about 15 years past that phase of life, for yourself and any woman who might look your way? I'm just giving hard examples of what I'm talking about. I think it's very possible women look at you and see a boy, not a man -- as if you froze in high school. Not having sexual experience to build on isn't the issue; the issue is that you come off as generally not grown up, with the experience that comes with increasing chronological maturity. Even a virgin could be worldly wise in other ways and insightful about human nature, but you seem to be removed from these qualities (and I stand by my Asperger's hunch.)

 

For this reason, I don't think "game" is something you'll ever have, and the types of girls you might attract would not be in the crowds you're looking in.

 

I think you could be very happy with a nerdy, geeky girl with a slightly lazy eye and a happy-go-lucky streak. But you're not going to find her until you broaden your horizons, and also stop hoping to score with girls who could feature in Whitesnake videos.

 

If I were you, I'd go to one social event you would never catch yourself dead at once a month, and see what happens.

 

Your other option is, as I have said before, to go to therapy. And maybe try to figure out why you froze in high school. There are a lot of unresolved issues in that pot, with off-putting behaviors unconsciously tied to it. I still think this is your best bet. All the rest is window dressing and bandaids.

 

I'm not sure if I'm immature or childish. I've grown to be more responsible in things, like accepting the fact that having a job is good for you even though it's annoying. I'm starting to want better things for me, but I'm learning that part. (like a better car, better job, nicer furniture, nicer clothes, etc...) I have cash saved up, but I don't spend it. I rather spend 100 bucks on a nice dinner and wine.

 

Not sure if I froze up in highschool... but I had my first job at 24, and that was the last time I was ever in a band. I really would love to be a band, but I'm too old for it. I'm willing to give up everything. That's why I could go on tour with band I did.

 

The problem is, no one takes me seriously. I don't have that intimidation factor. That's probably some weird reason why women don't like me. If I don't show any intimidation than I can't be protective. But I don't see it that way. I'm a bit more easy going.

 

The goofy part is when I get excited. And I mean I SHOW IT... I'll bust out with joy. And when I want to dance, I'll dance with no one and not care. People probably laugh, but I don't care about that.. Sometimes I feel like I can be an embarrassment towards people...but I'm not trying to be an embarrassment. I'm just having a good time with myself. That's the crappy part. Someone that SEES that side of me for the first time, will think I'm always like that. I'm not like that 24/7. At the time I don't care about people judging me...but lots of times I reflect and say "why did I do that?.. that's not sexy at all". And then I beat myself up for it and I get depressed about it a bit. But I live for the moment. Just goofy moments! haha!

 

Honestly, I know I can 100% be in relationship. Many women have told me I would make a great boyfriend. I think it's more because I actually understand them emotionally.

 

I think some women can't get past my looks for some reason.

 

The personalities I feel that can best describe me are:

-- Charlie --- ( It's always sunny in philadelphia) -- my eccentric and awkward side

-- Nick --- ( The New Girl) --- my stubborn and mischief side

-- Michael Kelso --- ( That 70's Show) -- my gullible and making jokes side

 

and for the record -- Jessica Day --- is DEFINITELY the type of girl I can be with. She got that hipster, quirky side of her. SUPER HOT!!!

[Moontiger]

 

Not sure if I froze up in highschool... but I had my first job at 24, and that was the last time I was ever in a band. I really would love to be a band, but I'm too old for it. I'm willing to give up everything. That's why I could go on tour with band I did.

 

The problem is, no one takes me seriously. I don't have that intimidation factor. That's probably some weird reason why women don't like me. If I don't show any intimidation than I can't be protective. But I don't see it that way. I'm a bit more easy going.

 

The goofy part is when I get excited. And I mean I SHOW IT... I'll bust out with joy. And when I want to dance, I'll dance with no one and not care. People probably laugh, but I don't care about that.. Sometimes I feel like I can be an embarrassment towards people...but I'm not trying to be an embarrassment. I'm just having a good time with myself. That's the crappy part. Someone that SEES that side of me for the first time, will think I'm always like that. I'm not like that 24/7. At the time I don't care about people judging me...but lots of times I reflect and say "why did I do that?.. that's not sexy at all". And then I beat myself up for it and I get depressed about it a bit. But I live for the moment. Just goofy moments! haha!

 

Honestly, I know I can 100% be in relationship. Many women have told me I would make a great boyfriend. I think it's more because I actually understand them emotionally.

 

I think some women can't get past my looks for some reason.

 

The personalities I feel that can best describe me are:

-- Charlie --- ( It's always sunny in philadelphia) -- my eccentric and awkward side

-- Nick --- ( The New Girl) --- my stubborn and mischief side

-- Michael Kelso --- ( That 70's Show) -- my gullible and making jokes side

 

and for the record -- Jessica Day --- is DEFINITELY the type of girl I can be with. She got that hipster, quirky side of her. SUPER HOT!!!

 

If no one takes you seriously there is a reason for it. And not have a job until you were 24 is a very good clue. For some reason you are running 6-10 years behind where your maturity level should be.

[agent1607307371]

I'm willing to give up everything.

 

Except the idea that to be in a band you have to quit your job.

 

You're not too old to be in a band Dougie, you're just too old to be in a band in the way you dream of. The dream is over, but you could still have a good reality. Why, if you love being in bands, haven't you been in one in a decade?

[Dougie_D]

Except the idea that to be in a band you have to quit your job.

 

You're not too old to be in a band Dougie, you're just too old to be in a band in the way you dream of. The dream is over, but you could still have a good reality. Why, if you love being in bands, haven't you been in one in a decade?

 

Because convincing others (potential band mates) to tour is very hard. There's a reason why even the most established bands take a long break when they get in their 30's.

 

If I'm going to be in a band. I'm gonna take it seriously.

 

When I started working the first time, working in general was so new to me. It started to take TIME away from me. Now, I'm full time...working 40 hours. It's even harder to get things done if you are in a band. I barely pick up my guitar. What's the use, you know?

 

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A REASON TO QUIT MY JOB!! I HATE IT!!!!@!!

[Dougie_D]

If no one takes you seriously there is a reason for it. And not have a job until you were 24 is a very good clue. For some reason you are running 6-10 years behind where your maturity level should be.

 

Well, I didn't have to get a job because my family was kind enough to help me financially. I tell people I'm like 10 years behind when it comes to "life skills". Right now, I'm just learning what it takes to be more independent. .. and I mean, crap... I've never experience being in a relationship. So that part is like 20 years younger than right now. And for some reason, I get penalized in the dating world because of it. Everyone looks at me stupid...and then I feel like I have to play "catch-up" and it depresses me even more.

[Moontiger]

It's nice of your family to support you but they really crippled you by doing that. And honestly, you should have taken the bull by the horns much sooner. My parents helped support me but I still got a job at 16. Then college I was involved in a tone of out of class clubs so I didn't get another job until I was 20, since then I've always worked.

[Fudgie]

My ex started a few bands and as far as I know he's still in them. He basically worked 80 hours a week, 40 at his job, and the other 40 practicing and promoting the bands. He slept very little. He was not ready to tour either and made very little money from the bands but that's what he was into. He's considered one of the best drummers in my city. THE BEST.

 

Look, I'm going to be blunt. It's unlikely you're going to be in a touring band at your age, with your resources, etc. Are you ready to work like that? Because that's what it takes. People don't take you seriously because you lack life experience and know-how. You have a long way to go.

[Dougie_D]

It's nice of your family to support you but they really crippled you by doing that. And honestly, you should have taken the bull by the horns much sooner. My parents helped support me but I still got a job at 16. Then college I was involved in a tone of out of class clubs so I didn't get another job until I was 20, since then I've always worked.

 

Well, I got a full time job now. So people can't fault me for having a job now. I can't change the past. It really bums me out that people seem to make a big deal of it. But this part of my life, shouldn't be such a dealbreaker for women.

[Fudgie]

Well, I got a full time job now. So people can't fault me for having a job now. I can't change the past. It really bums me out that people seem to make a big deal of it. But this part of my life, shouldn't be such a dealbreaker for women.

I don't think it's as much your past itself but your attitude and lack of life experience. There are people who lived at home or were supported by parents and still gained a lot of life experience through work or volunteering or school experiences.

 

We all have cruddy things about ourselves that we wish that people could look past. Many don't and that's something we all have to come to terms with. I myself have a lot that is not desirable but I own it and try to work past it. So what are you going to do?

[Dougie_D]

My ex started a few bands and as far as I know he's still in them. He basically worked 80 hours a week, 40 at his job, and the other 40 practicing and promoting the bands. He slept very little. He was not ready to tour either and made very little money from the bands but that's what he was into. He's considered one of the best drummers in my city. THE BEST.

 

Look, I'm going to be blunt. It's unlikely you're going to be in a touring band at your age, with your resources, etc. Are you ready to work like that? Because that's what it takes. People don't take you seriously because you lack life experience and know-how. You have a long way to go.

 

I like thinking about being in a band when I see other bands play. When I was tour, I always thought to myself "dang, it would be great to get on that stage with them and play a song"..but I just kept that thought to myself.

 

I know I have a long way to go...but all I can do is keep on going through the motions. I'm doing the things I feel like I'm suppose to do, to get more "life experience" EXCEPT the dating,relationship, sex part. That will always drag me down as a "red flag"

[Dougie_D]

I don't think it's as much your past itself but your attitude and lack of life experience. There are people who lived at home or were supported by parents and still gained a lot of life experience through work or volunteering or school experiences.

 

We all have cruddy things about ourselves that we wish that people could look past. Many don't and that's something we all have to come to terms with. I myself have a lot that is not desirable but I own it and try to work past it. So what are you going to do?

 

Maybe you can help me better. What should be the "life experiences" I should work on pursuing besides relationship, sex, etc..??

[Fudgie]

I was with my ex for a few years, and I see now that the band life is a lot less glamorous than most people think it is. There's not much money to be made for most people. Then you have sketchy people you have to deal with, people trying to steal your stuff, etc. Not mention the initial cost of equipment and such.

 

Here is my suggestion, get involved with a local cover band. You'll get a little money but no, you won't tour, you won't draw a huge crowd, you'll probably play the same few bars, but hey, if you want to play out and still have a job and support yourself, that's it.

 

As for life experience, part of it is just giving it time and trying out new places. You haven't been on your own that long, compared to others. You are really into bars but I'm not sure of your hobbies outside of that. I'm not saying that to get chicks, just to be a more well rounded person and to get more opportunity for yourself.

 

Relationship/sex wise, I say open yourself up to NSA sex if that's what you want. Unfortunately, it's really hard for guys to find easy sex outside of playing for it but it's out there if you lower your standards.

 

But I can't really tell what you want. Sex or a relationship? Decide for yourself. What are you looking for?

[Moontiger]

My question Dougie, WHY shouldn't your maturity level be a deal breaker for women? Because it absolutely would be for every woman I know. They want men, not boys, someone who takes responsibility, not who makes excuses.

 

I go back to the job example. Why should you get to work in a hospital if you don't want to put in the work needed. You are getting on a better path with working and taking care of your health but you attitude is still immature.

[Batya33]

Maybe you can help me better. What should be the "life experiences" I should work on pursuing besides relationship, sex, etc..??

 

In no particular order, IMHO: financial independence, travel, broadening what you read (fiction and non-fiction), a variety of volunteer work even if not all at once, cultural experiences -theater/symphony/opera/museums/galleries/architectural walking tours -whatever you're willing to try. Getting involved in some community activity like a sport, theater productions, free classes at the local library. Being a good and empathic listener and working on those skills every time you interact with someone - and that will come more easily once you broaden your life experiences.

[journeynow]

My impression, you are maturing, Dougie_D. You've changed since coming on eNA, I can see a difference. Give yourself some credit, and keep on keeping on, learning and growing and living life.

 

Also consider there are female counterparts to you. Not all women are the same, not all men are either. For whatever reason, some bloom later, struggle gaining the experience they want. You may be attracted to certain types, but perhaps give some other less obvious ones another consideration, look for other appealing qualities that you've overlooked.