Why being shy and unattractive sucks!

[al7]

al7

You are missing my points. There is no single "technique" or method of becoming confident. It starts from within, you have to look at yourself and your life and realize that you are a great person and any woman that gets an opportunity to be with YOU would be lucky. It really is that simple, but you won't get there unless you start placing strong value on yourself.

 

You have to be consistent, don't be afraid to disagree with others, don't allow people to take advantage of you, be proactive, speak your mind, all these things and more. Its going to take practice, but don't stop because when it becomes a habit you won't even have to think about it, it will come naturally.

 

No methods.. hmm So confident guys were just born with it? Oh well.

It is all good what you are saying, but something tells me it is not that EASY just to "place strong value". Yes, something tells me I am a great person, but women want a man (job\looks) with a good, family oriented personality not just a good person. I lack all of those.

And I think this reality check just doesnt give me any confidence at all.

 

Man, of course, if you got looks\job and wants a family you gotta be at least confident on a bout average level.

I am not afraid to disagree, it is not about it. I am afraid I do not pass the very first simple tests: job\looks\family.

So from where I can then start gaining confidence, from what idea?

[ShySoul]

al7,

 

Don't look at things in terms of confient people and those who aren't confident. The thing is, no one is really one or the other. We all are confident about some things in our life and not so confident about others. The people who come off as if they have no worries or troubles, may have more than you do. It could just be that they are good at hiding it. Likewise, someone who could appear to be nervous and unsure may have a great deal of confidence. I'm shy and uncomfortable in groups, but I believe in myselfand know that I'm a great guy.

 

You mentioned women wanting a man with looks, a job, and family oriented. Let's look at all three. Remember, looks are subjective. What one person finds attractive, could repluse someone else. Everyone is beautiful in there own way and the type of women you would want to be with would see you as attractive and beautiful. The way to get confidence is to see yourself as a good person. Love the person you are on the inside and your confidence on your exterior should grow as well. And if someone doesn't like your looks, so what? There opion doesn't matter anyway.

 

With the job, again, does it matter what other people think? The important thing is that you like your job. And if you don't, work on it. Look for one you do like or get the training to go into another field that you would like better. I know it's not always that easy and that sometimes you have to compromise so that you can afford to live. But don't lose sight of your goals. Find what motivates and makes you happy in life, and go for it. That push for your dreams can give confidence.

 

Now for family. I'm not sure of what your referring to. Is it that you haven't had a great family life in the past and are uncomfortable with the topic or that you don't see yourself as raising a family? In the first case, few, if any, people have really great family lives anymore. There are always problems. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be good having a family of your own. In the second case, alot of people are nervous at the thought of raising a family, but they end up doing a great job. You seem like a good person which is what makes for a good father. You may be frightened of the idea now, but someday you'll probably think differently. And even if you don't, not every couple has to raise a family. One of my aunts and uncles are in their 60's, have been together a long time, and never had any children. They might have wanted children, but they are still happily together even if they didn't.

[Shidoshi]

al7,

 

How old are you? I'm just curious. Confidence IS important, of course everybody has varying amounts, and not all have it in the same way but that doesn't mean its not important. Bottom line...you want chicks, and you know that your way isn't working, right? You keep referring to physical appearance, which can be important, but that alone isn't what makes most men successful with women. I know people, I have friends who are not the most attractive people on earth and guess what? THEY HAVE GIRLFRIENDS! You are making excuses for not getting chicks and you won't ever break out of this slump unless you take some kind of action. Stop looking for simple answers because there are none.

 

I'm shy, not as shy as I was a long time ago, but I decided to change so I could get laid. If you don't put yourself out there how are you ever going to get over this? I'm not trying to offend but I want to be frank about this because we need to be realistic. I probably wouldn't even be here posting if I never had issues with being shy, I'm what you could call a reformed shy guy. Don't get me wrong, I still am shy to an extent, but I have been able to work around it so it doesn't cause these kinds of problems in my life. I did it for the most part by putting myself out there, asking girls out, even if I'd get rejected I would continue until I had success.

 

You can't learn this by reading books or getting advice from people, although that isn't all bad if you want to get an idea about how approach this. You have to swallow your pride and just get out there and socialize because there is absolutely no easy way to do this. Take this from someone who was once in your shoes.

[al7]

Shidoshi,

 

I am friging old...and that bothers me. Shyness doesnt go away with age as I figured out.

I do trying somehting. I tried online dating but I am a terrible at improvisation nd cant just walk up and casually chat with a girl I like.

To have a gf is no big deal thats right - the question is what kind of gf: the only chicks were interested in me (based on online expereiced and looking at my pics) were really fat chicks (surprisingly they also do want to have a bf)

Basically I was frustrated with my pics: it appear I look 10 years younger than my actual age on a photo. (I am not kidding). so no ladies were wiliing even bother to respond to my letters. You may say: just go out and approach girls, yes, in reality I look better than any kind of photos, still I lack CONFIDENCE and ability to improvise - just walk up, like nothing happened, start a convo, and chat her up...I cant just talk without her - I like dialogues or at least I have to know what is the topic to talk about. I cant just walk up and chat about the weather for awhile.

 

Anyway, ok man. How did you improve your confidence? What steps did you do? Are you able just to walk up to girl and lead a convo?

[al7]

in a nutshell:

Confidence: Right, I agree - it might be just ability to hide insecurities.

I accept that definition. So How Cn I learn how to... hide them? I am eager to move on and learn...

 

Looks: yes, looks as in online dating. See, I look like I am very young especially in pics, and it is a huge turn off for women.

Basically the whole online selection is based on pics: if a guy is cute ok she'll date him, if not... NEXT. What can I do? Grow some tough wrinkles? haha or got a rhinoplasty and in perspective look like M. Jackson?

it is not that terrible in real life, you can sense age better, but in terms of pics it seems a tun off.

 

Job: without a decent money most women are nt willing to date a guy.

I can uderstand them. it doesnt matter if I like my job or not, what matter

is my ability to provide....If I have it ok, I m a datable man, if not.. well NEXT

 

Family: I referred to a desire to have kids. My last gf told me: I want to have three kids. I tried to make a joke..."not 5"? But that was a sad moment: she felt her biological clock ticking and I didnt want to be pressured into having family. Besides I see it is more work, hard work than fun.

 

 

So a guy must at least have something right? at least one from three: look/money/or being family oriented (which is not a great turn on just it is better than nothing).

I cant offer anything except "I am a great person"

[MetalJoe]

in a nutshell:

Confidence: Right, I agree - it might be just ability to hide insecurities.

I accept that definition. So How Cn I learn how to... hide them? I am eager to move on and learn...

 

Two ways I approached this...

 

1) Take yourself out of the comfort zone. It sounds counter-intuitive, but do something different from your everyday routine - because you might just like it and broaden your comfort zone a bit more == more confidence in wider situations

 

2) Concentrate on the things you are good at, and work at getting yourself even better at them. Build on what you have to make yourself feel better - it'll spread to the areas of your life you don't feel so confident with.

 

Looks: yes, looks as in online dating. See, I look like I am very young especially in pics, and it is a huge turn off for women.

 

I'm 28, but clean-shaven I look about 18 so I know what you mean!

 

I grew a beard last year, nothing too drastic, while trekking around the Outback - pure laziness, nothing else. When I came back home, I was going to shave it off but everyone agreed I should keep it because it makes me look older - and, more importantly, "cooler and more handsome" according to lots of women.

 

Give it a try - it's easier than wrinkles ;-)

 

Family: I referred to a desire to have kids. My last gf told me: I want to have three kids. I tried to make a joke..."not 5"? But that was a sad moment: she felt her biological clock ticking and I didnt want to be pressured into having family. Besides I see it is more work, hard work than fun.

 

That's fine - no one should be pressured into having a family. I have friends who are very happy together and have no interest in raising kids whatsoever, likewise some aren't even that worried about getting married seeing it as "just a piece of paper".

 

Personally, I really want to start a family and soon.

[Shidoshi]

al7,

You mentioned an ex gf, how did you meet her, how long did it last, and why did you guys split?

 

Me, I'm not a good conversationalist, but what I did practice was listening to other people talk to try and find some common ground so I could keep the conversation going. This will definitely help you with women you've just met. Keep it simple, ask questions, if you find out about a passion of hers ask her genuine questions about it and make it seem like you're trully interested in what she has to say.

 

As I said before I'm still shy to some degree so I don't really just go up to people out-of-the-blue and start conversations, but sometimes I do, depends on my mood. Just recently I missed a possible opportunity to talk a beautiful latin girl that worked in my school's cafeteria. When I first saw her I thought she was pretty attractive, but I never made it known to her. I saw her a few more times after that and noticed her checking me out. I don't know if she was looking at me for no reason, or if she was attracted to me, but it would definitely help my cause if I were to assume she was attracted. Thats actually a technique you could use, assume she likes you and you'll be more comfortable talking to her.

 

However, I messed up because I never asked her out or made small talk and I haven't seen her since. I lost my opportunity. I was not comfortable running game in front of all the people standing next to me in line so I missed out. I am with someone right now, but I still talk to other women because its not only good practice, but it keeps your options open in case things don't work out. I'm not bashing online dating, but for shy people I don't think its a great way to meet people.

 

Its too comfortable to sit back and talk to women online without really facing them. It will only frustrate you further because they don't have a lot to go by except your pics and profile. I look a lot younger than I am, but guess what? Its actually the reason why some girls find me attractive....go figure. For now, don't even think about the confidence thing, just start talking to women, even a simple "Hi, how are you?" is fine, just keep doing it.

[al7]

1. I started to greet people: I try to say hello whenever I can.

It helps a bit. What else I can do?

 

2. It is too general, to broad.. and not very specific. If you have a field

when you can do that - thats great. What is you just cannot? evetyghin is steady... would just playing online pool and getting better with it qualify?

 

3. Thats sad man. I have exactly same problem...

 

4. I grew a beard today.. a goatee kinda. But my mirror doesnt talk, I have no idea if it is a turn on, makes me older or just look like.. a goat?

 

5. I am just very curious - why do you want to have kids?

[al7]

1. Met via link removed, lasted for about 1.5-2 months...I felt kinda desperate and we didnt like each other much... It became especially evident when she said she wanted 3 kids..8-)

 

2. I was talking more liek about the very first talk: you walked up. You Already said all those "Hi.. How are you doing..you even asked wow..you boots are cool.. are they comfortable? She says somethign like: yeah.. they are.. I bought them in Boots&Nuts. Hmmmm..... Whats next?

 

4. Where do you talk to woomen? What topics you use?

Is it more liek a monologue for you... or they also participate in talking?

 

5. One big question what I say after "Hi how are you.."?

Lets assume she says Fine thanks. Good. Ok. Hmm.. Now I have to come up with a topic and come up fast! In fact I have to continue talking about somehting....so what do you usually talk about? The weather? - good idea is it is something good. or extremely bad - yesterday my car did 360 degree stunt on a highway. Two times. But it is negative, and I would not think it is somehting good I have to start a cnvo with...

I lack some ad hoc topics....so again.. What things you talk about?

[MetalJoe]

1. I started to greet people: I try to say hello whenever I can.

It helps a bit. What else I can do?

 

That's a start and not something to give up on. I find a good way to start a conversation with someone is to ask a question, get talking and then introduce myself. If you see someone every day, start off with a smile and an acknowledgement one day, then a hello, and then start a conversation.

 

But also, think a bit laterally. I'm not necessarily talking about situations to do with women and dating. Ever wanted to try rock climbing, skiing or skydiving but were afraid to give it a go? Wanted to go to a gym or get up on stage at an open mic night but didn't want to make a fool of yourself? Have a go! If you mess up, have a laugh about it, chalk it up to experience and go try something else instead - at least you gave it a shot and didn't chicken out.

 

2. It is too general, to broad.. and not very specific. If you have a field

when you can do that - thats great. What is you just cannot? evetyghin is steady... would just playing online pool and getting better with it qualify?

 

If it boosts your confidence, sure, but I suspect you might want to try something a bit more dynamic, perhaps a bit more social and interactive? You mentioned photography to me recently, maybe that's a more interesting starting point?

 

Don't worry if you're stuck for ideas - there are plenty of new ones to try. Make a list of all the activities you want to try and why, then list why you haven't done them and what you can do to change the situation. Go through the list and see what can be done immediately, in a few days, a few weeks etc. See how much of the list you can get through - and remember, if something doesn't work out then turn it into a joke and carry on to the next thing. Be positive, learn from the experiences good and bad.

 

4. I grew a beard today.. a goatee kinda. But my mirror doesnt talk, I have no idea if it is a turn on, makes me older or just look like.. a goat?

 

Share a photo with us ;-)

 

Just give it a try without thinking about it - see if anyone notices it or acts different in some way.

 

5. I am just very curious - why do you want to have kids?

 

I've wanted them for a long time, certainly since my early/pre-teen years, and there are lots of reasons. I guess the first thing is that I like kids and get on well with them, so raising a few of my own seems like a perfectly natural thing to do. I've been around children of different ages at all stages of my life and so don't have a rose tinted view - I realise that for all the wonder and excitement, the first steps and laughs, there are dirty nappies/diapers, tantrums, arguments and all the worry and responsibility too. I want to bring a new life into the world, watch them learn and grow, love them, teach them, encourage them, show them places and people, and pass on my knowledge and experience just as my parents did so they can explore the world and build up their own knowledge and experiences.

 

I could write on this subject for ages, but I've kept it brief ;-)

[fantasia2004]

please stop calling yourself ugly you are not ugly okay?

[Caldus]

Again, Kyoshiro you still haven't posted a picture yet so you can't tell everyone on here that you're ugly unless you have proof.

 

A lot of us in here are actually decent looking people (at least decent enough that looks wouldn't be too much of an obstacle) including myself. Even if you don't look decent you can change that. Start working out, practice really good hygiene, etc. I don't get dates that often and I'm a decent looking guy. So after a while I figured it must be because of the way I'm approaching girls (or the fact that I don't approach girls that often). It's all a numbers game. The more you try the better chance you have. So if you don't even try, you won't ever have a chance.

[corvidae]

I agree. Post a picture so we can see what you look like. In fact, I think it would be nice for everyone to post a pic so we can see what we all look like. Is there an album or photo section on this forum?

 

Anyway, everyone tends to have a much more negative view of themselves than other people do. I found the responses to my pics very uplifting (and surprising) even though I do think people were exaggerating to be nice. Although I also I believe if there was a problem people would constructively comment on it too.

 

To Caldus: doesn't it bother you that you have to make all the effort and that you have to put up with rejection? How many people have YOU rejected? Does this strike you as a fair situation?

[Caldus]

To Caldus: doesn't it bother you that you have to make all the effort and that you have to put up with rejection? How many people have YOU rejected? Does this strike you as a fair situation?

 

It's like that for just about every guy. Every time rejection happens the girl misses out on the prize. It's her loss. I've only rejected one girl but that was a long time ago. It's not even worth discussing whether the situation is fair. That's how it will always be. The guy goes after the girl. So get used to it.

[corvidae]

Caldus: What do you say to the argument that things are only this way because we (men) allow it, and that change is only brought about through not accepting the way things are? Ghandi took on the British Empire, after all. I'm not suggesting that you don't have self-respect, but for me I feel that doing the chasing demeans me. I actually have a great sense of self-worth, and I don't feel I 'deserve' to be ignored, or that I should have to 'prove' myself to others. In many ways I think you have an excellent philosophy, and I think you will have much much more luck with the ladies than I ever will because of it, but it is not a philosophy compatible with my personality.

[al7]

Caldus: What do you say to the argument that things are only this way because we (men) allow it, and that change is only brought about through not accepting the way things are? Ghandi took on the British Empire, after all. I'm not suggesting that you don't have self-respect, but for me I feel that doing the chasing demeans me. I actually have a great sense of self-worth, and I don't feel I 'deserve' to be ignored, or that I should have to 'prove' myself to others. In many ways I think you have an excellent philosophy, and I think you will have much much more luck with the ladies than I ever will because of it, but it is not a philosophy compatible with my personality.

 

So what's you philosophy?

Is it that.. ladies should chase you?

If you dont want to chase them... somebody gotta do it, right?

[corvidae]

Oh well, let me clarify then. In the past I asked out women. I can't remember the exact number, but it was quite few. I have been rejected every single time. In bars, clubs, social setting etc... I have had a similar lack of success, in that when I try to be friendly I only ever get cold responses. When I say I will not chase, I mean I won't put myself in a position where I am making all the effort and putting myself in a position to be rejected. What I really want is for it to be a mutual thing, to have openness without playing games, where we both put effort in. It's hard to explain. I don't ever want to be in a position where I am trying to win over someone else, they have to want me too. I expect women to put 50% of the effort in. To me, that's reasonable. Apparently the world disagrees.

[Caldus]

corvidae the point is that you can be the greatest guy in the world and still don't get many women. Even if you're a great guy, girls aren't just going to go up to you and ask you out. Ever think about how terrified girls get around guys that they are attracted to? I think in a few cases it has been like that for some of us whether we think so or not. You shouldn't feel demeaned by chasing women because that's just the way society is. Every guy goes through it so don't think you're the unlucky one who has to work harder.

[al7]

1. Good! I have done that at all.

2. Really? Did you ANALYZE why?

Did you notice what kindof women you asked out?

How were they dressed?

How were you dressed?

What did you say to them?

what was you voice like?

Were they busy? Married? Had a bf?

 

3. So being friendly is not somehting crucial for you? Does it make sense?

I amsure just to walk up and say somthing is not enough to get some success. You gotta analyze what happened. You gonna try that?

 

4. Man. they are not gonna do that. We all have a frim stereotype: guys are who asked women out, not the opposite.

You had no luck with asking them out and got.. frustrated, that leads you to thinking "Ahhh NO! I am done with asking them out....I let them do that...I failed".

 

Ok, man, ok.. but the frustration didnt give you any constructve approach. In fact in it is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE: they will never ask you out: why would they? They expect you to do that... and they dont care if you got frustrated or not.. they think you are a guy, so it is YOUR job to ask them out.

Do you agree?

[al7]

1. corvidae the point is that you can be the greatest guy in the world and still don't get many women.

 

2. Even if you're a great guy, girls aren't just going to go up to you and ask you out. Ever think about how terrified girls get around guys that they are attracted to? I think in a few cases it has been like that for some of us whether we think so or not. You shouldn't feel demeaned by chasing women because that's just the way society is. Every guy goes through it so don't think you're the unlucky one who has to work harder.

 

Well in women's definitin a great guy who is successful in asking women out at least to the poin tof getting a gf or two.

If you dont have success, what do you do? Stop doing it and got angry?

Ok you may get angry, but why did you quit???

Why dont you want to revamp you approching technique?

Improve what you say to them, how you dress, where you approach them, what kind of women you target.. etc etc.

You serisouly dont want to improve?

[Caldus]

Sorry, I must've worded all of that wrong. al7, what I meant by my last sentence was that every guy has to get out there and try. Rarely will a girl just go up to a guy and ask him out. We are all in the same boat. No one has an advantage or disadvantage. You may think you look bad, but in reality it's probably the way you're approaching them.

[MetallicAguy]

Basically you need to stop being a nice guy and prevent yourself from being supplicated by women (if you aren't good but if you are; change). You don't attract women in that "spark" of a way because you never got the motivation to 1. Ask them out, 2. Create Sexual Tension. Now you probably don't know what sexual tension is, but it's basically a method that can be used 2 ways. 1st way: Compliment a girl on something, then take it back but don't make it cruel or really mean, but don't make it seem nice either. 2nd Way: She says something about how she looks etc. and you say "Well it doesn't look all that bad"...then later on: "Actually that is a horrible haircut, barely a step above a Nazi full shave" LOL. But see it doesn't have to be that mean I just couldn't think of another way to say it. Get what I'm saying? Now go approach women, create some sexual tension and get her number or email!!

[corvidae]

Oh God, it's all so much effort isn't it? Let's all become nuns instead. We can found your own convent and tell people we're married to Jesus. Or monks...maybe monks is a better idea.

[Caldus]

Oh God, it's all so much effort isn't it? Let's all become nuns instead. We can found your own convent and tell people we're married to Jesus. Or monks...maybe monks is a better idea.

 

LOL nah don't do that yet.

 

You shouldn't try too hard yet you need to get out there. It's hard to find a balance with that I guess.

[al7]

WHat you are sayin is good. But I think it may look.. a little bit unfamiliar.

You explain how to shoot from a rifle, show all bullets and then say" Ok, lets go shoot some enemies who have been trained for years to fight".

 

Thats just too much for one step. It should presented...gradually.