Should I avoid the ex that I want back?

[csdude55]

I completely agree with all of you on this one.

 

Here are the facts at this point:

 

1. I agree with Shane that, objectively, I don't know anything yet... it's all circumstantial. Her "forgetting" that she burned herself on a pan, or a bruised/cut eye while wrestling (possibly play wrestling), is hardly condemning evidence. It's not like he actively punched her or anything (yet, anyway). And, obviously, she's still protecting him, so even if the authorities were involved it's not like they could do anything. Short of my physically taking her away, or possibly breaking the guy's arms, there's not a whole lot I can do here.

 

I'm honestly more concerned about the pregnancy here than I am her. Who in their right mind "wrestles" (play or otherwise) with a woman that's recently pregnant??

 

This is a wild guess, but I'm betting that he wouldn't be all that upset if she were to have a miscarriage. He may be getting a lot rougher now on purpose. And all things considered, I can't swear that she would be all that upset about a miscarriage, either.

 

2. After she told me that she's pregnant, it's been a lot easier for me to become emotionally detached. This might sound childish or stupid, but... I can forgive her for anything that happened before we were together, but she's accountable for everything afterward. Which includes having unprotected sex with another man.

 

Had she been pregnant when we first connected, I think that I could have gotten past it. But now it's different. I haven't had sex with anyone since her; even fantasizing about other women feels like cheating. So now, fair or not, I feel like she cheated on me.

 

 

I've completely backed away from this on an emotional level. I've seen her a few times now and no one died, the world didn't come to an end, and my heart didn't explode (all of which were legitimate concerns). What Star said earlier is exactly right: she made her bed, now it's her job to lie in it. She chose to push me away, went back to an abusive relationship, had unprotected sex... none of this is my responsibility to fix, no matter how much I love her.

 

I told her tonight that when she decides to leave him, I'll be there for her financially. I've actually done that twice before with other friends in the past, so this isn't a strictly romantic gesture on my part; a few hundred dollars to save a life (especially when children are involved) is money well spent, of course. All she has to do is say the word, and I'll go to the ends of the earth to help and protect her.

 

I didn't say this, but I kind of feel like she's destroyed what should have been a storybook romance. It's almost mind-boggling at how bad she screwed things up, in just a few short weeks. I still have strong feelings for her, but my logical side (which I absolutely hate) has taken over now. If she wants us to be anything, she really has a lot of work to do to win me back.

 

But honestly, I don't even know if it's possible. She's still the same gorgeous, intelligent, funny girl that I fell in love with, but I don't know that I would be able to get over her getting pregnant immediately after we broke up. As far as I can tell, she told me that she loved me and wanted to "run to me and be in my arms forever", and then got knocked up by another guy about 2 weeks later. I just don't know how I'm supposed to be expected to accept that.

[mhowe]

Okay...only because you mentioned the words twice...this isn't an "other man". This is the fathe of her children and now the father of a child she is carrying. Youare pretending he is some random fellow, he isn't. He is her choice.

 

The "wrestling/miscarriage" -- women run marathons in their first few months of pregnancy.

 

You told her "when you decide to leave him". I will be ther for you financially...a few hundred dollars to save a life.

 

Reality. IF she decides...the financial support will be in the thousands..not the hundreds.

 

Wake up from your fantasy.

[Shane Falco]

That's a decently rational post and, like you, I'd be put off with her getting impregnated by someone else immediately after the break. It's one thing to have sex (it's not cheating if you aren't together), but allowing oneself to get knocked up goes beyond that. I'm hesitant about you offering to be her ATM, but I guess a one-time $500 gift isn't the worst thing in the world, just as long as you don't turn into a de facto alimony check. I still wouldn't go to the restaurant very often (or at all) when she's there and I wouldn't serve as a sounding board UNLESS it's something serious, like her actually telling you she got slugged by this guy. And then you get authorities and professionals involved. But don't let her use you as an emotional tampon just to vent like you're one of her girlfriends. Your rational side is starting to kick in (Thank God), but that illogical, romantic side ain't dead yet. He'll be back in some shape or form.

 

You are very right on something -- you shouldn't be forced to accept anything you don't want to.

[csdude55]

Okay...only because you mentioned the words twice...this isn't an "other man". This is the fathe of her children and now the father of a child she is carrying. Youare pretending he is some random fellow, he isn't. He is her choice.

 

Well, he's a guy that's not me... ipso facto, some other dude. Further, he's some other dude that she's told me that she doesn't love, doesn't think she's ever loved, and recently told me that she still doesn't love.

 

Like I said, whether it's fair or not, she left a relationship with a guy she said she loved, to go back to (physically and emotionally) a guy that she claims to not love. You're right, it was her choice, and one that she now regrets. But I don't know how easily I'm supposed to forgive that choice.

 

 

The "wrestling/miscarriage" -- women run marathons in their first few months of pregnancy.

 

Marathon, sure. Wrestling that's half playful and half angry... I don't know. You don't see a lot of pregnant women on WWE. Either way, it doesn't matter, that's just a guess on my part anyway.

 

 

You told her "when you decide to leave him". I will be ther for you financially...a few hundred dollars to save a life.

 

Reality. IF she decides...the financial support will be in the thousands..not the hundreds.

 

Well, I didn't really expect this to be analyzed, but if we're going to be specific, I said along the lines of "if you two to break up, you know that you can count on me until you get on your feet. I have no problem helping out with your rent or whatever, so don't let him put you in to a position where you have to stay because you can't afford to leave."

 

An apartment in this area is only going to be around $500. The cost isn't exactly a concern for me, but I'm not stupid, and I'm not going to be put in a position where she's taking advantage of me. Of course, if I thought there was a risk that she would take advantage of me then I wouldn't have offered, anyway. We're talking about a girl that makes 1/20th of what I make, and still insisted on going Dutch on our dates, so I don't think there's much risk of me being used here.

 

 

Wake up from your fantasy.

 

OK? For whatever reason, you always come accross as kind of offensive and angry towards me, and I have no idea why.

 

 

I still wouldn't go to the restaurant very often (or at all) when she's there and I wouldn't serve as a sounding board UNLESS it's something serious, like her actually telling you she got slugged by this guy. And then you get authorities and professionals involved. But don't let her use you as an emotional tampon just to vent like you're one of her girlfriends.

 

I'm still hesitant to change my schedule to avoid her, but tonight was a learning experience. I went to the restaurant, I went to my regular table, and since I was alone I pulled out my Kindle and started to read a book. She came over to talk when she could, and I was receptive, but it's not like I stared at her longingly for an hour.

 

I find that I'm detached enough to have a rational conversation with her, and joke around like we used to, without being overwhelmed with a sense of loss.

 

 

Your rational side is starting to kick in (Thank God), but that illogical, romantic side ain't dead yet. He'll be back in some shape or form.

 

Being totally honest, here... I kind of think my romantic side is dead again. You just don't know, I haven't felt romantic in at least 20 years, and I honestly thought it had died years ago. The fantasy of being with her brought it back to life, but now that fantasy is gone, so I don't know if my romantic side has a chance.

 

Which is one of the reasons I've been considering going back to my ex-LTR. If I believe that there's no real chance of romance in my future, there's no advantage to waiting around for some other friend to come along. I kind of think that I had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and now it's over.

[Shane Falco]

Meh, I think you're still rationalizing. At the very least you should alter your routine a bit just to branch out a little. And screw going back to a woman you don't love. Honestly, you need to learn how to be comfortable in your own skin. Don't settle for a loveless relationship just to put on a front. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to her either. And I'm sorry, Anna isn't a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity wouldn't only dump you for another guy, but then get pregnant by him in mere weeks. You are still putting her on a pedestal, which completely contradicts the "detached" statement you made. Completely opposite ideologies. If you were truly detached you wouldn't regard her as a "once-in-a-lifetime" anything. She'd just be another person. You're still doing the mental gymnastics quite a bit here.

[pippy longstocking]

thankyou re my profile pic cs

 

I liked this :

 

But honestly, I don't even know if it's possible. She's still the same gorgeous, intelligent, funny girl that I fell in love with, but I don't know that I would be able to get over her getting pregnant immediately after we broke up. As far as I can tell, she told me that she loved me and wanted to "run to me and be in my arms forever", and then got knocked up by another guy about 2 weeks later. I just don't know how I'm supposed to be expected to accept that.

 

In your weakest moments you need to tell yourself this .

 

 

Being totally honest, here... I kind of think my romantic side is dead again. You just don't know, I haven't felt romantic in at least 20 years, and I honestly thought it had died years ago. The fantasy of being with her brought it back to life, but now that fantasy is gone, so I don't know if my romantic side has a chance.

 

I guess to be fair to you darling ....after 20 years and in a loveless relationship with your ex , anna must of been that princess in the fairy tale ..I understand that , for you , to feel love and passion , desire , care , the need to nurture this love , it must of been overwhelming to finally feel " the real deal" ...me too ..with my ex ..the one I decribed above , I have had many relationships , as you know I am 48 and my longest relationship was3 and half years ..so that tells you how many pies I have had my finger in haha but my ex was the real love ..oh my god ..was he ever ..and life without him has been one hell of a hard road ...we would have moved heaven and earth to be with them and feel the love forever ..right ?

 

well they havent ..and that has to tell *us* that they don't want us ...I also have circumstances that caused my split that are out of the ordinary ..but the fact remains ..here we both are on the dumping ground of ena on our own ... we can only do so much ..then they have to meet us half way .. theyhave to want us bad enough ... and they dont darling .

But that doesn't mean you wont find that again honestly .. maybe anna was the sent to be the awakeing in you ..she crossed your path to show you , you can love , you can feel it , you did leave the other ex .. you do have a dream , you do want that fairy tale , maybe the universe was reminding you and getting you ready for your next journey .

[csdude55]

Meh, I think you're still rationalizing. At the very least you should alter your routine a bit just to branch out a little.

 

You could be right. I don't think that I'm rationalizing, but I'm not exactly the best judge of myself.

 

What I do know is this: when I left the restaurant this evening, I more or less felt... nothing. I wasn't nervous, or excited, or sad, or angry, or happy, or optimistic... I literally felt nothing at all. This is a feeling I'm LOOOONG familiar with (my ex-LTR said that I was "dead inside", like Chandler from Friends), so I honestly don't think seeing her again is going to be a problem.

 

Maybe in the back of my mind, I'm hoping that she'll leave the father and want me back, but even then I don't think I'm all that receptive to taking her back. I just don't see myself dating a pregnant girl, so at best we're talking about a potential reconciliation in a year or more. And who knows where I'll be at that point?

 

 

And screw going back to a woman you don't love. Honestly, you need to learn how to be comfortable in your own skin. Don't settle for a loveless relationship just to put on a front. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to her either. And I'm sorry, Anna isn't a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity wouldn't only dump you for another guy, but then get pregnant by him in mere weeks. You are still putting her on a pedestal, which completely contradicts the "detached" statement you made. Completely opposite ideologies. If you were truly detached you wouldn't regard her as a "once-in-a-lifetime" anything. She'd just be another person. You're still doing the mental gymnastics quite a bit here.

 

I guess this depends on whether you believe in "true love".

 

Here's the thing, Shane. For the last 15 years or so, I've been an adamant non-believer in love. I've often said that love is really just friendship with sex, and that over time nobody is really in love... they just don't care enough to keep trying, so they settle for whatever's there.

 

This has been confirmed time and time again, even on here. I've had a few threads asking about LTR love, and not one person that's been in a relationship for more than 10 years described their relationship as anything more than friendship.

 

For the first time in my life, Anna made me feel like I was wrong; maybe there was something more to love, after all. That made me question everything: spirituality, destiny, everything.

 

Now, it's clear that there was no destiny there, no big Ultimate Universal Design. Nothing. And if we both felt so strongly, but she could easily go back to her ex, and I could fall out of love because she's pregnant by that ex... well, I guess that means that what we had wasn't really love, after all. At least, not in the way that I thought/hoped that love existed.

 

So, this puts me back to the frame of mind I've been in for the last 15 years: I'm back to not believing in love or destiny, and honestly, spirituality in general.

 

You have to understand, it's not that I'm currently putting her on a pedestal. It's that the love I felt put me on a different level, and without the love I'm back to my old level. In a sense, I had put the idea of an emotion on a pedestal... and now I've removed it from that pedestal.

 

Which, of course, is why I'm thinking about my ex-LTR. If there's no such thing as love or destiny, and I'm going to end up complacent and loveless with anybody in 10+ years, then I might as well save her some heartache, and save myself a butt-load of money. And frankly, she did a good job of keeping the books for the business, and I could trust her with my money. So it's sad, sure, but practical.

[csdude55]

maybe anna was the sent to be the awakeing in you ..she crossed your path to show you , you can love , you can feel it , you did leave the other ex .. you do have a dream , you do want that fairy tale , maybe the universe was reminding you and getting you ready for your next journey .

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but this is where my logical side conflicts with my romantic side.

 

Romantically, I would like to believe that there's more for me out there. That there's some Divine Entity that's working hard to make my life awesome.

 

But how many of us know old people that have gone their entire lives alone? How many times have we seen young people die of some horrible disease, leaving their loved ones alone? How much more proof do we need that there's nothing out there fighting for us... it's all just timing and luck.

 

Logically, I've gone my entire life without finding anyone that made me feel anything close to love. At this age, what are the odds that I'll find a second person that makes me feel the same way? This was a perfect storm; it was just the right timing for me, she had just enough problems to ensnare my inner white knight, we both enjoyed discussing our different religious views (one of my favorite topics), and both of us being in relationships forced us to connect intellectually for months without even thinking about a physical connection. The odds of the same thing happening again have to be slim to none.

 

Needless to say, Star, I'm very conflicted. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. Honestly, I'll probably just end up going with my gut instinct as opportunities arise.

[pippy longstocking]

I understand cs ...and for me to live and exist I have to have my spirituality , for me believing in what I wrote about the universe is easy because it is my belief .. I could write pages and pages of why I "think" A, B and C happen in this world .. I could write pages about my life experiences good and bad and pages of spiritual experiences I have had since childhood ...it is all relative to me ...but I don't expect it to be relative to everyone else ..and as you kindly respect my view point always ..I kindly respect yours and your ending was perfect

 

Needless to say, Star, I'm very conflicted. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. Honestly, I'll probably just end up going with my gut instinct as opportunities arise.

 

you really are a nice man cs and if I could wish for anything right now , it would be for you to just "bump" into love today ..cross the path of your twin flame ..unite your soul with that right person .

[Shane Falco]

Way too much typing for you to be "over" anything. I mean, you need to break out of your shell and do something new in the worst way. No more of this "waving the white flag" stuff. But yeah dude, you are in a huge rut in part because you are a slave to routine and afraid to branch out. I mean, you are just going to prove yourself true if you do the same thing day after day on end. You seem intent on fulfilling prophecy that you've set in your head. You see option a (Anna) and option b (the ex-LTR) and nothing else because you choose to stay in your bubble. That's your choice, but man, you are way too early in life to wave a white flag.

 

You need a vacation, a fresh routine, something, anything.

[bulletproof]

Romantically, I would like to believe that there's more for me out there. That there's some Divine Entity that's working hard to make my life awesome.

 

But how many of us know old people that have gone their entire lives alone? How many times have we seen young people die of some horrible disease, leaving their loved ones alone? How much more proof do we need that there's nothing out there fighting for us... it's all just timing and luck.

 

This is complete b.s. It's largely a numbers game at any age. If you don't make any effort to go out and find what you want, and go back to the safety of a dead relationship (or conversely, continue to chase someone who is completely unavailable), then yes, you will be alone.

 

The "divine entity" is you.

 

Get some therapy. You're a 39-year-old man. Your health seems fine if you're working out as much as you say you do, you're fertile, and you have enough money to support yourself. People get dates/relationships with far less to work with.

 

Your self-pity is destroying you.

[csdude55]

Way too much typing for you to be "over" anything.

 

You've said that before, too. FWIW, I've always made long posts and emails; it's my nature. I focus on details, so when I'm typing (or talking) then I tend to make sure I've covered everything. It keeps me from having to go back several times and say, "there's more to the story".

 

I also type at about 100wpm, so that post only took about 5 minutes to type up.

 

 

People get dates/relationships with far less to work with.

 

Meh. Getting a date isn't the problem; I've already had several (attractive) women to express interest. The problem is that I'm looking for an emotional and intellectual connection more than anything else, and the girls that are interested just come accross as banal and boring (possibly gold diggers).

 

So what's a guy to do? Go out with girls with whom he knows there's no chance of a real connection, on the off chance that they surprise him? Keep pushing them away in the hopes that someone more interesting comes along, and risk the reputation that he's not interested in dating?

 

Maybe you guys are right that I'm just in a funk, I don't know. Right now, the whole idea just sounds frustrating and pointless, but I guess I'll hold off on any major decisions for awhile. I was just much happier when I had a plan in place.

[Shane Falco]

You aren't ready to date right now, clearly. But what you call being logical and realistic reads as completely defeatist. You are basically taking your ball and going home. Instead of wasting time trying to make old things that didn't work work, it's time for you to branch out and stop being afraid of your own shadow. Instead of retracing unsuccessful steps, be a pioneer and blaze your own path. When you go back and dig up the past, all you get is dirty. But you seem hellbent on staying back in the past, whether it's staying in constant contact with Anna, who isn't available, or going back to a failed relationship with a woman you didn't love. Of course things aren't going to get better if you don't take steps to make them better. Life can change on a dime, but it's not going to change if you stay barricaded in your own little box.

 

You are definitely in a funk, and the more you spin it, the more weak and defeated you sound. Take some time to mourn (though going to the restaurant and engaging with Anna is going to make that time exponentially longer and continue to keep you in this fetal-position funk) and then break out of your shell a bit. Take trips, go to new restaurants, do something, anything, to get you out of this cocoon you have constructed for yourself. It's time to be a butterfly, not continue to stay in a caterpillar state. I think talking to a counselor or professional might help you emerge from this vegetative state you're in emotionally.

 

Ultimately, it's up to you what you want to do. But if you don't do something, your fears will come true.

[pippy longstocking]

shane your posts are fabulous

 

hugs cs xx

[bulletproof]

Meh. Getting a date isn't the problem; I've already had several (attractive) women to express interest. The problem is that I'm looking for an emotional and intellectual connection more than anything else, and the girls that are interested just come accross as banal and boring (possibly gold diggers).

 

So what's a guy to do? Go out with girls with whom he knows there's no chance of a real connection, on the off chance that they surprise him? Keep pushing them away in the hopes that someone more interesting comes along, and risk the reputation that he's not interested in dating?

 

No, you date and take risks in life like a healthy human being, the end. When I said that people do more with less, I meant that they find satisfying relationships that include emotional and intellectual connections.

 

Again, it seems you're just not willing to make the effort. So therefore, no reward.

[Capricorn3]

shane your posts are fabulous

Totally agree.

[Brokenhart84]

You need to get serious help ASAP. There is nothing anyone on this board could say to you to help you think otherwise.

[boltnrun]

My former coworker told me (after I complained for the umpteenth time about no men ever asking me out), "No one's going to ask you out when you're sitting on your couch every night with your cat watching TV." For some reason that was a major revelation...should have been obvious, but it wasn't to me for some reason.

 

So, I got my butt off the couch and went out and found a job where I work with hundreds of men. Granted, most of them are 25 years too young for me, but two of them I found very attractive (and age-appropriate), and one of them seems to be working up to asking me out. I joined Meetup and met at least two or three interesting and attractive men. I go wine-tasting and meet TONS of great men there. I joined an over-40 dating site and am attracting interest.

 

So yeah, you will have to weed through lots of manure to find the flowers. But when you find that lovely orchid (and remember, there isn't only one orchid on the planet, there could be a few who are perfect for you), it'll be worth it. And that orchid will only want to be watered by you, if you get my drift.

[browneyedgirl36]

^^All of this.

 

CS, you can't see this right now, because you aren't able to be objective about any of this at all (this is not meant to insult you -- it's just a fact), but you've painted yourself into a corner here. Your only options are NOT Anna, going back to your ex, or being alone forever and turning into that creepy old guy at the bar -- that is just a thought, one you created, and it is only true if you make it so. You have all the power here. All of it. As Shane said, all you have to do is choose something different for yourself. It may seem impossible, but those are just your thoughts -- created out of fear, resignation, desperation, etc, -- that are making it seem that way. Change is hard. It is infinitely harder than sitting around waiting for stuff to happen, because doing what we've always done requires nothing of us emotionally, physically, mentally. It doesn't challenge us, doesn't make us question anything. It leads to stagnation.

 

As has been suggested previously, things like therapy, travel, pursuing hobbies and interests, trying new things -- from foods to sports to places you hang out -- are the keys to change.

 

I understand you, in a way. I had an "Anna," except my "Anna" was a man (I'm a woman); he was ALWAYS unavailable, even when we were technically together. First, he was getting over a bad break-up. Then, he ditched me to go back to her, and then went it all went sideways yet again, as was inevitable, he came sniffing around me again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. We were on and off for several years, and even when we were "on" we weren't really entirely "on." I kept giving him my time and energy and a HUGE amount of real estate in my head and in my world. I was lonely. I was sad. Most of all, though, my thoughts were narrow, and those narrow thoughts made my world very, very small. It wasn't until he decided he was finally done with me (AND with his on-off ex before me) and off dating other women that I realized that I needed to change my life. I knew that accepting he was NOT the love of my life was something I needed to do. It took me awhile to do that, so in the meantime, I just started making small changes. I made new friends. I took up running, and I ended up running my first half marathon at 40. I have since run several of those, plus a marathon. I took up new interests (knitting, of all things!) and re-visited old loves (writing). I traveled my BUTT off, forged deeper relationships with friends and family, made more new friends, worked hard at my job, bought a house....all of this just in the last 3 1/2 years! As my world got bigger, my thoughts changed, and as my thoughts changed, I realized I had changed, to the point where, on a wonderful vacation to Europe with my family, I sat in one of my favorite spots ever and said, aloud, to myself, "I don't need him to be happy." The spell was broken. From then on, I knew things would never be the same for me -- and that that was a good thing. I am nowhere near the person I was 3 1/2 years ago. That person is gone -- well, at least the sad, scared, person whose world was so narrow -- and has been replaced with someone who can confidently say, "No matter what happens, I will be OK".

 

A therapist once told me that the reason I was so hung up on my ex was because I didn't have enough going on in my life. She was right. I THOUGHT I did, but really, I wasn't paying attention to how much of my headspace he was taking up. Now, even though I work with him and see him a few times a week, I rarely think of him unless he's right in front of my face. This is what I hope for for you. That someday, you will realize that all it takes to change your life is changing your mind -- changing how you think.

 

I do think therapy would help you. It helped me -- and has helped countless others -- tremendously in getting over humps in their lives.

[browneyedgirl36]

Great post. This is wonderful advice.

[pippy longstocking]

I am just dropping the hugs in ...there is nothing I can say that can compete with these wonderful posts of people screaming out to you darling .. xxx