Should I avoid the ex that I want back?

[saluk]

"I should also mention, though, that I'm just as concerned about my own growth here. I realize that seeing her every day might not help me move on, but then consciously changing my routine to avoid her (and thinking that she could be changing her routine to see me) won't help me to move on, either."

 

Changing your routine sucks. But sometimes it really is the best way to move on. It definitely is more likely to yield fruit than trying to keep everything the same. Isn't that just trying to hold on to something that you are supposed to be letting go of? Moving on is ALL about figuring out how to let go. Sometimes the circumstances can make letting go easier, but at the end of the day, it is a choice you willingly make.

[Doofus]

I say go to the restaurant! If she's what you want, then put yourself in a position to get her. Going to a different restaurant means losing contacts, friends business partners.... It's stupid. And all it shows is that she can control you and that you are weak. Don't be weak.

 

As for the rest of it, it sounds like she's pretty confused. I might pm you. I"m in a similar situation, or have been, but from her side. Like her, I've chosen children. That choice and its consequences were what brought me here.

 

She may well love you and not him - at all - but, because she believes that staying with the father is best for the children (and she may well be right) then that is what she'll do. I think that lots of frequent posters on here are childless. Until you have a child, it's almost impossible to understand how important their welfare is to a parent. The most shattered people I know are the ones who have lost a child. They never get over it. And that's because the pain of that is so much greater than the pain of another break up.

 

So..... I think it really depends on her and the dad and whether he really is a good father. If so, youre probably done.

 

Thus, I'd be prepared for some heartache. I'd also be prepared to be her piece on the side. You should think hard about whether you could live with that, because, personally, that sounds like the most likely scenario.

[csdude55]

And all it shows is that she can control you and that you are weak. Don't be weak.

 

I was thinking that same thing earlier, but couldn't figure out how to put it in to words. More than just insulting her by it being obvious that I'm avoiding her, I really don't want her (and our mutual friends) that I'm weak and that she has that much power over me.

 

I'm not seeing it as a power struggle, but since she dumped me, if she wants me out of her life then it should be up to her to avoid me, right? You can't very well dump somebody, then go to their regular hangouts and not expect to see them.

 

 

As for the rest of it, it sounds like she's pretty confused. I might pm you. I"m in a similar situation, or have been, but from her side. Like her, I've chosen children. That choice and its consequences were what brought me here.

 

I would greatly appreciate the insight, by PM or otherwise. Insight from someone that's been in this position, especially on the other side, would be exceptionally helpful

 

 

She may well love you and not him - at all - but, because she believes that staying with the father is best for the children (and she may well be right) then that is what she'll do. I think that lots of frequent posters on here are childless. Until you have a child, it's almost impossible to understand how important their welfare is to a parent. The most shattered people I know are the ones who have lost a child. They never get over it. And that's because the pain of that is so much greater than the pain of another break up.

 

So..... I think it really depends on her and the dad and whether he really is a good father. If so, youre probably done.

 

We talked a lot about the father, during our whole relationship. This was always an area of turmoil for her, and I understood it from the beginning.

 

Based on everything she told me, and our mutual friends told me... he seems to be a good dad. He's never raised a hand to the kids, and does seem to love them, even though he had nothing to do with them while they were broken up (but then, that could have been a manipulation tactic; letting her handle the kids on her own, without any financial support, caused enough fear to drive her back to him).

 

And my qualities as a father were one of the things she was concerned about, too... and rightfully so. I have no children, so she doesn't know how I would be with them. And I do work 90 hours a week, so there's a question of whether I would be an absentee father. Or that, over time, I might grow to resent them being a distraction while I'm trying to work. These are all fair concerns, and something we talked about a lot.

 

But he's a terrible BF / potential husband. IMO, he doesn't love her any more than she loves him. He might think he does, but I just can't believe that someone in love would act the way he does.

 

 

Thus, I'd be prepared for some heartache. I'd also be prepared to be her piece on the side. You should think hard about whether you could live with that, because, personally, that sounds like the most likely scenario.

 

No, that's not an option. I can be her emotional crutch if that's what she needs, but I'll never sleep with her while she's going home to another man. It might not show, but I do have a little dignity.

[Clinton]

Let this one go. It's the right decision, at least from my perspective. She's indicated she wants to work on things with the father of her children. So step aside and cut contact. Don't be that guy.

[csdude55]

Clinton, just to clarify... are you saying that I should change my schedule and avoid my regular restaurant?

 

If so, the next obvious question is... what happens when/if she comes to my new regular hangout? How long do I keep avoiding her?

[Shane Falco]

I don't exactly understand why you need to visit that restaurant while she's working. She's not going to work every shift on every day. If you are really hell-bent on going to this particular restaurant, why not go when she's not there?

[csdude55]

I'd explained that a little earlier, Shane, but it's mixed in with the long posts.

 

I've eaten dinner at this restaurant every Monday for 5 or 6 years. In fact, I've made a big deal of it: Monday is my "heavy" bench press day (I used to compete), and this restaurant is right beside of my gym. So I go there for a high protein, high complex carb meal, then I walk to the gym to lift weights with my group of lifting buddies. It's something I've talked about many, many times... including to Anna, who knows my routine well.

 

Which, of course, is another reason why I can't help but think that this was her way of seeing me. There's another waitress that works evenings, and the two of them discussed which days to take. Anna specifically asked for Monday and Tuesday; the two days I'm guaranteed to be there. She could have easily asked for Wednesday and Friday, which are the days I'm rarely there.

 

So it's not just a question of me being hell-bent on going there when she's there, it's that me changing my schedule will actually be a pretty big deal, and obvious to everyone involved.

[Shane Falco]

Just change to Wednesday and Friday then. You are so concerned with putting out a front for other people that you have no regard for your own well-being. I'm sorry, it's an easy solution but you are so concerned with putting out a cover story that you are ok and that it's business as usual when that's not even remotely the case. Just look at the novels you are writing on here. You clearly aren't OK, which is perfectly understandable, or you wouldn't be so effusive, argumentative, and overanalytical. And honestly, you could probably use a change in your routine just for the sake of not being stagnant and evolving as a person. No offense, but eating at the same restaurant on the same days for 5-6 years would drive me insane.

 

Either way, stop being so worried about what other people think. That, more than anything, projects weakness, not protecting your emotions and decompressing after a trying emotional episode.

[csdude55]

I hear you, Shane. And please don't think that this is being argumentative, but...

 

If I change my routine the very day that she starts back, doesn't that project the same weakness? Showing both her and my friends that I'm not over her, that she has that much control over my life just by threatening to be in the same room?

 

Changing my routine CAN be done, sure. It won't be easy, because it means convincing my lifting partners to change their routines, too (or finding new ones), but it can be done. My question all along, though, has been whether it should be done. For my own well being, for her well being (I don't want to hurt her if she's really reaching out to me), and potentially in case we do have a chance of being back together.

[Brokenhart84]

Why are you concerned about hurting her? She is the one that broke the relationship. If she wants to be with you, she will make more than an effort. There are issues on her end that she needs to deal with.

 

I think you already know the answer to your questions and concern. You are going to stick to what you want to do.

[Shane Falco]

I hear you, Shane. And please don't think that this is being argumentative, but...

 

If I change my routine the very day that she starts back, doesn't that project the same weakness? Showing both her and my friends that I'm not over her, that she has that much control over my life just by threatening to be in the same room?

 

Changing my routine CAN be done, sure. It won't be easy, because it means convincing my lifting partners to change their routines, too (or finding new ones), but it can be done. My question all along, though, has been whether it should be done. For my own well being, for her well being (I don't want to hurt her if she's really reaching out to me), and potentially in case we do have a chance of being back together.

 

You aren't over her, so why pretend to be? This long con is so much weaker than just accepting that breakups hurt and that you need time. Changing routines/restaurants, along with being healthy in general, shows that you are mature enough to realize that you need to decompress. It doesn't matter what she thinks, it doesn't matter what your friends think, but I would guess that they'd understand why you are doing what you are doing. But taking some time away to get things under control is mature and makes you a hell of a lot stronger than what you are exhibiting in this thread. You are trying a con, a hustle, and the odds of you coming out looking like a or feeling like crap is so much higher.

 

Is it weak for a football team to make in-game adjustments if their game plan turns out to be flawed instead of continuing with it and getting pummeled? Is it weak for a general to retreat and build up defenses instead of going forward and getting completely ravaged? I mean, the stuff you are typing and your current mentality of putting disingenuous front looks much weaker to me that being realistic with yourself and your emotions and taking a step back. This doesn't have to be a permanent shift, but give yourself a chance to breathe. You'll be better off no matter what happens.

[Shane Falco]

Why are you concerned about hurting her? She is the one that broke the relationship. If she wants to be with you, she will make more than an effort. There are issues on her end that she needs to deal with.

 

I think you already know the answer to your questions and concern. You are going to stick to what you want to do.

 

Exactly. Being concerned about hurting someone who hurt him is also extremely weak, since apparently looking or not looking weak is the most important thing here.

[csdude55]

Why are you concerned about hurting her? She is the one that broke the relationship.

 

A few reasons:

 

1. I completely understand why she did, and there's no animosity at all for it.

 

2. I know that she doesn't have any real friends; at least, she didn't when we talked before. If this is her way of trying to reach out to me, even as a friend, I have no reason to not be there for her. I've never understood the logic; you don't love me, so now we can't be friends?

 

3. What I don't know is whether she's happy in her decision to be with the ex-now-current BF. If she's not, why would I risk any future relationship by hurting her? What do I gain?

 

 

If she wants to be with you, she will make more than an effort. There are issues on her end that she needs to deal with.

 

On this, we agree. I have a question about the logic, though.

 

Let's assume that she does regret her decision. He now controls the money, she has no friends, no way to text or call someone without his oversight, and no car. How would she get out of this relationship without help?

 

 

I think you already know the answer to your questions and concern. You are going to stick to what you want to do.

 

OK? That seems a little angry and presumptuous, and I don't understand why. I have 2 1/2 days left to hash out all scenarios and come to a decision. Isn't that one of the purposes of this site... to discuss all possible outcomes with people that have alternate perspectives and experiences?

 

 

Exactly. Being concerned about hurting someone who hurt him is also extremely weak, since apparently looking or not looking weak is the most important thing here.

 

Who said it was "the most important thing"? It's not, but it IS a thing. It's been said time and time again on this site that I need to appear strong, be the Alpha, etc. While that's not my top priority, it does have value. Does an Alpha run and hide when the Beta shows up?

 

If she's unhappy in her current relationship and wants me back, does the act of avoiding her make me more attractive?

 

I'm thinking that you (Shane) are advising under the assumption that there's no chance of reconciliation. And there might not be. But how do I know if I go out of my way to avoid her?

[Shane Falco]

I never said it couldn't happen. But the more you try to manipulate and meddle, the less of a chance it will happen. Your strategy is weak dude. If you were truly an Alpha (even though Alpha and Beta is stupid as f**k), you'd do you thing without worrying about how people perceive you. If you are worried about looking Beta, it doesn't matter, because you are acting Beta.

 

If there's going to be a reconciliation, it has to come from her. Not from you. Just because you don't go to her restaurant doesn't mean crap. In fact, it might make her take you seriously, as in "holy s--t, csdude might actually be moving forward." If you keep going to her restaurant on the day that she works sucking up to her, do you really think she'll be invigorated by you? Use some common sense dude. You are so concerned about Alpha vs. Beta you are making yourself into the biggest Beta possible.

 

You remember the guys in high school that orbited around the hot girls hoping beyond hope they'd be chosen? That's you dude.

[csdude55]

I'm trying to consider all points of a situation before making a move, gathering insight from people that have been here before me. This isn't weak, it's logical. I do the same thing in business every day: consult with people that know more than I on a situation before making a major move.

 

On here, I'm being brutally honest and open because I want honest and open responses, but do you seriously think I'm the same way in real life to everybody I meet? Of course not. No more than I would ask questions of my clients the same way I would in a brainstorming session with my executive board.

 

I'm not really all that worried about Alpha perceptions or whatever, I don't know why you keep talking about that. Doofus was the first one to bring up social appearances in post #27, and I responded to it in post #28. Until you made the statement that "apparently looking or not looking weak is the most important thing here" in post #38, nothing else was said about appearances. So I have no idea where you're getting the idea that I'm overly concerned about it.

 

 

You remember the guys in high school that orbited around the hot girls hoping beyond hope they'd be chosen? That's you dude.

 

Where in the heck are you getting this one?? If I don't change my schedule to avoid her, then I'm orbiting her and "hoping beyond hope" to be chosen?? I'm sorry, but I really don't understand where you're getting this.

 

 

If you keep going to her restaurant on the day that she works sucking up to her, do you really think she'll be invigorated by you? Use some common sense dude.[/quote[

 

OK, getting past your overly antagonistic points...

 

Just to clarify, you're saying that if I change my schedule to avoid her, she'll potentially take me more seriously. But if I keep to my regular schedule, which will lead to seeing her at least 2 days a week, the way I used to (when she first fell for me), I'll come accross as weak and appear to be "sucking up"?

[Brokenhart84]

My statement was not angry nor presumptuous. It's the truth. You are totally right, the board is here for you to express your concerns and gain insight. However, you are consumed and over-analyze everything to extreme. You are trying to hash out EVERY scenario. Why? Do you really have 100% control over the situation? No you do not. Take it one day at a time...

[Clinton]

I take back the part where I said you seemed like a nice guy. You're hell bent on getting this girl back and breaking up any chance they have of being a family. I wash my hands of you and your ilk.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think that, as long as she's trying to make things work with her ex, and the father of her children, you need to back off -- for her sake AND for yours.

 

I understand the intense, short relationship thing. I had one with my last ex. Later, it DID turn into something a bit longer, but it was on and off after that, with him going back to his previous ex (with whom he was still enamored, even though he told me how terrible she was -- sound familiar?) I too hung around (we work together), being a friend, hoping to get him back. I did, briefly. Then again, briefly. Then again....you get the idea. It never stuck. And, now, I realize that was the best thing. In my situation, though, he wasn't back with his ex while I was actively trying to be in his life. When he got back with her, I pretty much disappeared. When I saw him at work, I was kind, but no personal conversations, and nothing outside of work (texts, calls, etc.). I respected their relationship -- whether or not she really WAS horrible (I have no idea to this day) -- and I made that clear.

 

She's told you what a horrible person her ex is, but the truth is, you don't really know. You know what she told you, and I'm sorry, but people DO tend to exaggerate the "awfulness" of a partner they're angry at/trying to get over/have just broken up with.

 

I DO think you're over-analyzing all of this. I think also do think that, whether you realize it or not, you're trying to manipulate the situation toward a particular outcome. Ultimately, it seems, no one will be able to talk you out of it, but I can say from experience that putting yourself in the position to be friend-zoned by someone you are romantically interested in, and/or waiting around, being "there" (either literally in the same space as her, at the restaurant, or more figuratively being someone to listen to and help her through her troubles) is a recipe for heartache.

 

That said, it's clear that you don't plan to stop going to the restaurant -- or at least change your routine a bit -- if she starts working there again. You seem to have made up your mind. Sometimes, we just have to try something and see what happens, but just be prepared that there's a good chance it will go nothing like you hope it will.

[Shane Falco]

Where in the heck are you getting this one?? If I don't change my schedule to avoid her, then I'm orbiting her and "hoping beyond hope" to be chosen?? I'm sorry, but I really don't understand where you're getting this.

 

 

If you keep going to her restaurant on the day that she works sucking up to her, do you really think she'll be invigorated by you? Use some common sense dude.

 

OK, getting past your overly antagonistic points...

 

Just to clarify, you're saying that if I change my schedule to avoid her, she'll potentially take me more seriously. But if I keep to my regular schedule, which will lead to seeing her at least 2 days a week, the way I used to (when she first fell for me), I'll come accross as weak and appear to be "sucking up"?

 

Yes, you appear weak and continue to appear weak. You mention that she fell in love with you due in part to seeing you twice a week at this restaurant. But before that, she had never seen you had she? You were this new guy who came in that intrigued her. But you can't replicate that, because you aren't new and aren't intriguing anymore. So this whole "she fell for me by seeing me twice a week" doesn't hold water. At all.

 

The only way you can possibly restart that intrigue is to disappear for a while. If you do that, after a while she might be like "hey, I wonder what csdude is up to, I haven't seen him in a while" and instead of thinking about you in your current state (the state which eventually turned into a breakup), she might gain a new perspective on you. She'll know that you are out there living life and doing new things instead of being the routine, somewhat boring dude who goes to the exact same restaurant on the exact same days every week. That could make her wonder.

 

However, if you are there like clockwork like you've been the last half-decade, there's no intrigue. She can't miss you or wonder about you if you don't leave. She'll think you are an orbiting safety blanket, which isn't the least bit intriguing. So branch out a bit, get out of your comfort zone and live life a bit. You are a slave to your routine, and that's not very attractive. It's time to shake things up.

[Doofus]

I don't understand why being a sexual crutch would mean sacrificing your dignity, but being an emotional one - when you're in love with her - is not. I'm really asking by the way - this opinion seems to get expressed a lot. I've never understood it.

 

Maybe I just missed it, but have you described why she and her ex broke up? Who broke up with whom? How long ago? Has he been with other people in the meantime? Has he been pining for her all along?

[csdude55]

I don't understand why being a sexual crutch would mean sacrificing your dignity, but being an emotional one - when you're in love with her - is not. I'm really asking by the way - this opinion seems to get expressed a lot. I've never understood it.

 

That's a good question, man, and I honestly don't know the answer. I guess that in reality, you're right: having an emotional affair really is worse, in many ways, than a physical one. But for whatever reason, it feels more innocent to talk to her online for hours than it does for me to go to her house and make love to her.

 

I guess that, if I'm an emotional crutch, then I can convince myself that I'm just being a good friend with a secret dream.

 

 

Maybe I just missed it, but have you described why she and her ex broke up? Who broke up with whom? How long ago? Has he been with other people in the meantime? Has he been pining for her all along?

 

When she and I first met, she was always talking about him being controlling and mean. They had apparently broken up dozens of times over, but ended up back together due to financial concerns and pressure from her mom and church. AFAIK, it was always her leaving him.

 

Before she and I got together, he was working out of town 5 days a week, and was home 2 days. She had complained for weeks that every time he was home, all they did was fight for those 2 days. That previous weekend was when he bruised her arms, and her friends were encouraging her to leave before it got worse. She said that if they had another fight that weekend, she'd leave. I wasn't actually part of that conversation, but was sitting at the same table, so I heard all of it.

 

Sure enough, they had a big fight that weekend, so she "technically" broke up with him. But for financial reasons, they still lived in the same house; she just slept in the kid's room on the days he was home. I know this to be true, because she would text with me all night (which she couldn't have done if he was there). The next weekend, we all went out as a group of friends. A few days later, we all went out again, and I gave her a ride home. This was when she kissed me.

 

I'm almost positive that he didn't date anyone else during their break up, but I didn't exactly ask about him very much unless she brought something up. If he did, she didn't mention it. I know that she suspected he was sleeping with someone while working out of town, though; it's actually pretty common for prostitutes to hang around the work crews, so it would have been easy for him. I really don't know what she based that suspicion on, though, so I don't know if she had any real reason to think that.

[csdude55]

FWIW, I chose not to go by the restaurant today. I was extremely torn over it, especially when I went to the gym next door, but I didn't.

 

At around 8:30, my phone rang. It was Anna, calling from the restaurant. She wanted to let me know she was there, and was hoping I'd come see her. I told her that I couldn't, it was too late, but we talked for a few minutes.

 

She cried and told me that she really misses me, and she's made a huge mistake. Her and the ex (father) have been fighting a lot and she was ready to leave him, which is why she came back to work... like I thought, in the hopes of seeing me and patching things up. So for almost a whole minute, I was the happiest man on Earth!

 

Then came the bombshell. She just found out Friday that she's pregnant with his child. She's scared, confused, and doesn't know what to do. She knows they can't afford another child, she doesn't want to be tied to him any further, and she's convinced that he did it on purpose to force her to stay.

 

(She said the same thing about their youngest, too, though, so I can't help but say that this is at least 50% her fault.)

 

I truly don't know what to think about this one, I wasn't prepared for it. I don't even know what she was hoping I'd say. I mean, I assumed they were having sex, but I didn't think that yet another child was going to be an issue right now. I love this girl, and I'd fight tooth and nail for her if I thought it would make her happy, but dating a girl that's pregnant with another man's baby? I was fully prepared (even eager) to accept her with children, but this is a whole new ballgame.

 

If she had gotten pregnant with my child while we were together, I would have married her, though. No question. But this... this is a lot to handle.

[Doofus]

Eeek! What did she say exactly? Did she propose a course of action?

 

If not, then I'd meet with her and ask her what her plan is. It's one thing to miss you, but, given everything, it's another thing entirely, to be with you. IF she isn't willing to terminate the pregnancy, or, can't, then this is the very embodiment of the phrase 'hot mess'.

 

Personally, this still sounds to me like what she really wants is you on the side. You need to decide whether you can live with this. Based on what you've written here, it seems the answer is 'no'.

[pippy longstocking]

oh cs

 

She cried and told me that she really misses me, and she's made a huge mistake. Her and the ex (father) have been fighting a lot and she was ready to leave him, which is why she came back to work... like I thought, in the hopes of seeing me and patching things up. So for almost a whole minute, I was the happiest man on Earth!

 

 

BUT THEN ....OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Then came the bombshell. She just found out Friday that she's pregnant with his child. She's scared, confused, and doesn't know what to do. She knows they can't afford another child, she doesn't want to be tied to him any further, and she's convinced that he did it on purpose to force her to stay.

 

darling how can HE make HER pregnant on purpose ..she is a mature woman and mother .. she is responsible for her body and her birth control ..no man can make a woman pregnant on purpose unless we really are a bunch of mindless dimwits ...

 

 

cs you have to run run run run run for the hills ...you are going to be dragged into some dirty pit of hell , emotionally supporting her pregnancy to her husband who she claims she doesn't want to be with ...it is about time anna took some responsibility and if she where my friend I would have read her the riot act by now ..

 

how much more can you take ... all the hard times she has had , the terrible life with him , the control and the church and her mum etc etc ... you cannot save her ..you cannot help her .. she is a grown woman and needs to act like one ... this is not fair on you ....massive hugs mate xxxxx

[pippy longstocking]

I am stunned cs ...

 

this is what I see if you stay around ..

 

you going through 9 months of pregnancy with her .. the person she runs to , the person she calls , the person she goes on and on and on about her husband to , you will be the one nurturing and loving her and giving her all the attention she wants ... all the while your life ..your precious beautiful life on hold while you be a husband with NO benefits to someone elses wife .