We're together constantly, but we never SEE each other

[weathergirl]

You're right. I should just forget about her and move on.

 

Two months and no kissing or touching? Girlfriend would rather play video games on Skype than spend time with you in person?

 

Yeah...most men in your situation wouldn't stick around for that. No how, no way.

[abitbroken]

Two months and no kissing or touching? Girlfriend would rather play video games on Skype than spend time with you in person?

 

Yeah...most men in your situation wouldn't stick around for that. No how, no way.

 

Its okay to not kiss at the EIGHT WEEK mark. But skyping instead of meeting in person - nope. He needed to set boundaries on that.

[weathergirl]

Its okay to not kiss at the EIGHT WEEK mark. But skyping instead of meeting in person - nope. He needed to set boundaries on that.

 

Sure it's okay....if you're friends.

 

It's not okay for a romantic involvement, not IMO anyway. Nor in the opinion of any man (or woman) I know either.

 

Kissing and physical touch is precisely what differentiates a friendship from a romantic relationship...where there is (or should be) a physical attraction. If it's missing, then what you have is a friendship...possibly a good friendship (if you're skyping every day and such), but it's still a friendship.

 

Note I am NOT talking about sex here, or any form thereof. Just kissing, holding hands, cuddling, physical touch. If those things are missing after two months of "dating," then it's a friendship.

 

To the OP? You want more than friendship? Then kiss her and start being physically affectionate with her. To do this, you need to spend time together (in person)...so abitbroken is right... set some boundaries and start asking for time alone together. If she's still putting up roadblocks, then something is amiss and you should probably break up with her at that point.

[chewy21]

Not intending to necro this thing, but I did want to share some encouraging updates.

 

The first kiss happened about two weeks ago. I had intended to take her on a "proper" date, so I dressed up in my suit and tie, bought her flowers (which I put in a plain glass vase that I customized with panda bear stickers and ribbon) and we were gonna go eat at a nice local Italian restaurant, and afterward take a walk at the campus nature trail. Turned out, she injured her arm that day (pulled nearly all the muscles and ligaments in her right forearm), so needless to say she wasn't up for going anywhere. So instead, I still got dressed up, went to her place and gave her the flowers, which she loved and said made her feel better. She was still hungry, so I went to get take-out and brought it home to her so we could eat there. We watched a movie, and I let her rest her hand supported by pillows on my lap to keep it elevated. When she got comfortable enough to want to go to bed, I made sure she had everything she needed, grabbed my things, and hugged her at the door. Before she pulled away, she kissed me on the cheek. I caught her before she pulled away, and we shared a wonderful kiss that I still get butterflies thinking about now.

 

Spending time in person, holding hands, and kissing have become more common over the past two weeks. Particularly since once night when her pain was really bad and she was texting me nonstop not knowing what to do. I had offered earlier that day to come over and take care of her so she could rest her arm, but she refused saying her place was a mess. I don't care about that, and I told her that, but she wasn't budging. So after all the texts, I couldn't take not being there for her, and told her I was coming over to make sure she didn't have to use the hand for anything whatsoever. She refused again, saying she didn't want me to see her like this (she was crying, and because of something that happened when she was a kid, she gets ashamed to be around anybody when she cries). I told her no, that she'd already talked me out of it once when I should have been there. When I showed up, she was sitting on her porch, sniffling, teary-eyed, and hugging her knees. I comforted her, we googled some home remedies, and she let me take care of her until she started dozing off on my shoulder while we watched tv.

 

I think that was a pretty big deal for her. She seemed afraid that I would reject her if I saw her crying, but when I didn't, I think it made her realize that I really do care about her. She's been more open about spending time together, calling me baby and sweetie, touching, and kissing me ever since.

 

Also, she calls me "boog-a-boo", which I think is super adorable.

 

So things are going really well, and I just wanted to update and thank you guys that helped steer me straight when I was still uncertain about how things were going. You guys and this site are amazing.

[Batya33]

I think this sounds good and I think you are being far too pushy with her about coming over when she is not in the mood to see you. It's nice that you want to take care of her but from your description -all I have to go on -it sounds far too coddling and like you are asking how high you should jump for her, constantly. Being a doormat is not attractive. I am sorry her arm hurts but she's an adult and she can choose whether having you there will help her feel better.

[chewy21]

I think this sounds good and I think you are being far too pushy with her about coming over when she is not in the mood to see you. It's nice that you want to take care of her but from your description -all I have to go on -it sounds far too coddling and like you are asking how high you should jump for her, constantly. Being a doormat is not attractive. I am sorry her arm hurts but she's an adult and she can choose whether having you there will help her feel better.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I believe I made the right call. Yeah, it felt a little pushy, but in the end it brought us a lot closer. Like I said, I've noticed a significant change in her demeanor when it comes to little intimate things since that night. She knows she can trust me and that I'll be there for her. I don't think it's coddling at all. And if it is, considering what she's told me about how guys have treated her in the past, she could do with being a little pampered by me.

 

But I appreciate you trying to find anything negative and bringing it to my attention. Sometimes we get caught up and don't notice those things in the midst of being happy.

[Batya33]

I was not presenting it as something necessarily "negative" - but rather input on how to make different choices so as to improve your relationship. Your pampering her is not going to change her views of men but it might change her view of you (i.e. if it's done in the way you're describing and done on a regular basis she will lose respect for you unless she wants to control you in the relationship). Remember, it takes two to tango and she chose to stay in relationships where she believed she was treated badly.

 

If you have to be pushy to get closer, ultimately you won't be closer in a healthy way. On the other hand if you give her space to come to you you will be richly rewarded. If she doesn't come to you -then see if that becomes her M.O. or if it's an aberration. Avoid the temptation to see her as some damsel in distress who doesn't know what's good for her. Of course she does -assume that she, like most people, prefer moving towards pleasure and away from pain. You want her to trust you? Then trust her by showing her that you trust her to make choices without being pushed or convinced by you.

[chewy21]

Apologies, I didn't mean for the negativity thing to sound like a jab. I really am grateful for the chance to see this from multiple angles.

 

And I'm sorry, Bayta, but just a few weeks ago you were suggesting I leave her and start looking again. You confidently said that she wasn't interested in me, and now with the same self-assurance you're asking me to stop doing what works for us in favor of doing what you think is best. That would be crazy.

 

I know you're trying to help, and that you were before as well, and I really do appreciate that. But I can't help but wonder if maybe some of the advice you give is reflective of your own relationship issues. You seem extremely eager to slam the door shut at even the slightest hint of potential issues. And it seems you expect everyone to fit the very definition of perfectly-healthy-and-stable-partner before even considering looking for someone.

 

In a perfect world, we'd all be 100% healthy and issue-free. But the vast majority of us aren't. So instead of spending our time, money, and youth on therapy to get us to that perfect place, we opt to try our luck, to see if we can find someone who doesn't mind our issues, and whose issues we can handle at the same time.

 

Most of the time, that doesn't work out. So the route you advocate is the safe bet. You'll be right, and 99.9% of the time, it'll end, sometimes poorly. Until it doesn't. But you never find the one that doesn't unless you're willing to give it a real shot.

 

Part of that is finding out what works and doesn't work for you as a couple, and deciding whether or not it's something you can handle. Both have to be willing to bend a little. I bent by doing something I normally don't do and driving over to comfort her in a time of need when she told me not to (which she thanked me for doing after I left). She bent by allowing herself to cry in front of me, something she doesn't normally do. And because we both met in the middle when we bent, it made us closer, and strengthened our trust in each other.

 

I can handle being a little pushy now and then, if that's what it takes for her to feel like she doesn't have to hide her bad days from me (might even be good for me, considering I'm usually very passive). Everybody likes to be taken care of now and then. It's just harder to admit for some than others.

 

I don't say any of this to offend you. Like I said, I know all you're trying to do is help, and it is appreciated. But I didn't come back and post because I was looking for help, I did it because I'm grateful to you guys for giving me advice, and I wanted to let you know the good news about how it turned out. I'm not looking to make any changes right now, because things between us are going great. It ain't broke, so I ain't gonna try and fix it.

 

Your advice would be gold in a perfect world with perfect, healthy people. But our world isn't perfect. And I'm not going to wait for it to be perfect before I try being happy.

 

My sincere thanks, again, for your advice.

[Ms Darcy]

Sounds like things are going well! Just make sure you listen to her and her needs. Good luck!

[Batya33]

I don't agree with what you wrote and obviously you know your own boundaries and what you're looking for in a relationship. I never advocate throwing in the towel unless, as I see it, the issues are serious and reflective of an unhealthy relationship. That is how I saw what you described previously. I did not advocate throwing in the towel based on your previous post. I think your behavior and interaction is not consistent with building a healthy, long term relationship but certainly things can change.

 

I think you're determined to ignore any input that does not support your view of your interaction with this person. That's your choice of course. Good luck!

[weathergirl]

I don't agree with what you wrote and obviously you know your own boundaries and what you're looking for in a relationship. I never advocate throwing in the towel unless, as I see it, the issues are serious and reflective of an unhealthy relationship. That is how I saw what you described previously. I did not advocate throwing in the towel based on your previous post. I think your behavior and interaction is not consistent with building a healthy, long term relationship but certainly things can change.

 

I think you're determined to ignore any input that does not support your view of your interaction with this person. That's your choice of course. Good luck!

 

Batya...first off I agree with you...and secondly I think this is one of those situations where the OP is gonna have to find out for himself what a turnoff the type of pushiness he displayed is.... and how such constant coddling also becomes a major turnoff for most women....eventually.

 

It "worked" for him this time as their RL is fairly new...and as in most new relationships... things (aka red flags) such as this are overlooked and/or flat out ignored by the recipient.

 

But if he keeps it up...he will find out soon enough when his girlfriend begins to pull away and/or shows signs of losing interest in him...which she WILL eventually...UNLESS she enjoys being controlled and dominated by a man who thinks he knows what's best for her and what she needs better than she does.

 

If she's NOT that type of girl...no doubt he will be back on this board (perhaps months from now)...asking "what went wrong"???

[Batya33]

Yes- like I wrote- she might be into this kind of dynamic especially since it sounds like she needs a break from being with men who mistreat her -so this is the opposite extreme and a welcome change.... but very often with a limited shelf life. Obviously there are exceptions.

 

You are right that my words were wasted because given the OP's perception, feelings and also how he is approaching this (trying to win her over and liking the challenge she proposes most of the time) he is going to have to experience it this time in his own way at his own pace. My sense also is that if what he's describing is accurate the woman he is dating is into extremes for now -either the "bad boy" or his approach and is not yet ready for the middle ground of a healthy relationship that is not about constant push/pull or drama. But, I only can go on what he writes is happening - we do not have her side of things (boy would that be interesting to read!).

[chewy21]

(...)OP is gonna have to find out for himself what a turnoff the type of pushiness he displayed is.... and how such constant coddling also becomes a major turnoff for most women....eventually.(...)

 

Wanting to help and to be there for someone is not coddling, and it has hardly been constant.

 

As I said in my post:

 

(...)I bent by doing something I normally don't do and driving over to comfort her in a time of need when she told me not to(...)

 

Bold added.

 

But what I do normally do is make sure she knows I'm there if she needs it. People who don't want your help will normally tell you they have everything under control. People who want your help but are afraid to take advantage of it will usually make up some excuse why you can't help them. Excuses such as "my place is dirty" or "I don't want you to see me cry." Based on that, I concluded that she wanted my help, but she was either too proud to accept it, or too embarrassed about being seen crying. I took a chance and acted on it this one time.

 

Every other time she's given me an excuse about why she can't come over or I can't come over, I've accepted it. To take this single instance to the contrary and present it as "constant" is just plain inaccurate.

 

It "worked" for him this time as their RL is fairly new...and as in most new relationships... things (aka red flags) such as this are overlooked and/or flat out ignored by the recipient.

 

Considering she thanked me, it's clear she didn't overlook or ignore it. It's also clear that it wasn't a red flag for her.

 

But if he keeps it up...he will find out soon enough when his girlfriend begins to pull away and/or shows signs of losing interest in him...which she WILL eventually...UNLESS she enjoys being controlled and dominated by a man who thinks he knows what's best for her and what she needs better than she does.

 

If she's NOT that type of girl...no doubt he will be back on this board (perhaps months from now)...asking "what went wrong"???

 

I've never been accused of being controlling and dominating, lol. More like shy or passive. That's why driving over there when I did was so out of character for me (a "bend", as I mentioned before). Not that you care. You're too busy painting me as some sort of authoritarian control freak.

 

I can appreciate posts like Bayta's, because he (she?) is trying to help and has well thought-out opinions on the situation, regardless of whether or not we agree.

 

Your post is just a salivating desire to say "I told you so", which fantasizes about when and why the relationship will end. There's no value in that.

[chewy21]

I'm sorry you feel your words were wasted on me. I can assure you that the opposite is true. Just because I decide not to take your advice doesn't mean you're not reaching me. It means I've considered it, and that we simply disagree. But I have taken on board everything you've said. I discuss the reasons I disagree with you to see if they hold up. If they don't, then that's how minds are changed, and I'm open to that. But if they do, it doesn't mean I'm being hard-headed or sticking my head in the sand. It just means my reasons held up.

 

Separating my emotions from discussions about my emotions is something that's often difficult for me, and I apologize again if I've offended you.

 

I've done my best to present an accurate portrayal of events up to this point. Nobody's perfect, and I obviously can't know exactly what she's thinking, but I don't believe I've skewed anything unfairly.

 

It's unfortunate that you see what she and I have as unhealthy, but I suppose we all have our own criteria for that. For now, though, I'm not going to worry about it. Things are moving along nicely between us, and I wouldn't want to threaten that by introducing undue worry over what works for us.

 

But thanks again, Bayta.

[Ms Darcy]

Chewy not to worry. Things seem to be going well so just make sure you are listening to her needs.

[Batya33]

Thanks for clarifying -you commented with a personal attack on my supposed "relationship issues" which is why I responded that way. It sounds like you are enjoying the dynamic you two have and how you interact.

[Tinydance]

Errrr....sorry if this sounds really negative, but are you sure that she sees you as a boyfriend and not just a friend? If you've never done anything physical and she hardly wants to see you in person, maybe she's avoiding having to tell you that she just wants to have fun playing video games with you?

[chewy21]

Errrr....sorry if this sounds really negative, but are you sure that she sees you as a boyfriend and not just a friend? If you've never done anything physical and she hardly wants to see you in person, maybe she's avoiding having to tell you that she just wants to have fun playing video games with you?

 

I can't read her mind, if that's what you're asking. All I can go on is what she does and what she says. What she does is kiss me when we see each other, lays her head on my shoulder and holds my hand when we watch movies on the couch, and smiles when we lock eyes. What she says is that I'm her boyfriend, she's my girlfriend, and that she really likes me a lot.

 

It sounds like maybe you've responded without reading the thread. I realize it's gotten pretty long, but lot has changed since the first post a few weeks ago.