His 22 year old daughter came to see me (unexpectedly)

[PurpleButterfly]

Hello all,

 

I've been trying not to post here so much, as I'm trying to be independent with my NC. So some of you know my back story, if not you're welcome to have a glance.

 

So basically I've been doing really well with the NC. I've kept to it, blocked his number, got rid of stuff he bought me, gave him back his ring etc, etc. So I initially found the break up extremely hard. I was dumped in the most awful way possible. It could have been less painful if I ended it sooner but I just didn't have it in me. Then he started to bombard me left right and center for a second chance, to which I admit I contemplated but said no. Probably the hardest decision but definitely the right one.

 

So fast forwarding 6 weeks, his daughter has come to town to visit him. She's 22 and I'm 25. I've never met her before, only seen photographs. But she knew me straight away because she had seen photos of me and knew where I worked. She came to see me, I didn't know it was her at first ... it was a bit surreal. Then she said who she was. Do you ever get that nervous trembling feeling? I had that, hopefully it wasn't showing that I was nervous. I really wasn't expecting to see her. I decided since she was on her own to go for a coffee. I panicked and just suggested it, a mutual place to have a conversation. So we went for a coffee and she chatted to me. She's quite timid but very polite. She wanted to talk about her Dad (my ex who's 44) and how he's been. I didn't want to go in to detail about the break up but eventually it all spewed out of me.

 

I told her that he wouldn't respect my decision about me not wanting to be friends with his ex. She understood (didn't think she would as she grew up with his ex). I told her that it was insulting for her Dad to say to me "I can't be with someone who can't accept my friendship with my ex" and then he wants me to be friends with this woman who I had to be second best too!? I don't think so...

 

There were SO many other factors that destroyed the relationship. But she came to see me because she told me her Dad was struggling still. He didn't send her to see me apparently, she came to see me whilst he was at work. She wants me to talk to him and just have a rational conversation, see if we can work something out or at least just get some closure. I'm personally not comfortable with this. If I have to get through this break alone then so should he. I didn't make any promises, I said I'd think about it.

 

But she was quite concerned. Now I feel put on the spot and I really don't know what to do. She said she'd come and see me again before she goes home. She understood and agreed with what I was saying but she has contact with his engaged ex still. She also told me (and I have to keep this to myself) that his ex's new man moved town to get away from him and his friendship with Harriet. She also told me that he's basically had to cut all contact with Harriet and that he saw the beginning of the end on his last trip to visit her and her man. So now him and his ex are just acquaintances and that they only speak on the phone when she's at work away from her fiance. My ex Joseph even calls her new man about sports and meeting up but has had the phone put down on him the last few times...

 

Still him, his daughter and most of his family still keep in touch with his ex on Facebook, via text, visits etc... so I still wouldn't be in a relationship where it's just about me. I also said to his daughter that her and her sister offended me when they bought his Dad and his ex a present to go and see their favourite sports team. I said that it hurt that she didn't consider my feelings and that maybe I'd be uncomfortable with my then boyfriend and his ex going away on a weekend trip together. She apologised and said she thought I was okay with it all. Sounded like a sincere apology.

 

She left and went back to her Dad. But said she'd see me tomorrow or the day after to see what my decision is. I don't know what I can really do. I'm not sure she even knows what she wants. He was never capable of a rational conversation. The moment he hears something he doesn't want too he shuts down. Apparently he's a mess and he's blaming himself, his family are worried and he's "not the same". I'm not in to this. I appreciated her coming to see me, she was a lovely girl and all, but I don't know what I can do. I think NC would still be the best option. I can't honestly see how Joseph and I can work things out or get "closure". I mean nothings going to change. It's only because he's been forced out of Harriet's life that suddenly everything I said to him makes sense, that I make sense.

 

Urgh.

 

Thanks xxxx

[Tanzi]

Why is he in bits though? Is it because of you or is it because he has had to cut ties with his ex?

 

He sounds way too connected to his ex …. even obsessive and stalkerish if he resorts to contacting her fiancé in order to stay connected with them/him. And they have to sneakily chat when her fiancé isn't around??? There's not a lot of respect for each other's new relationships is there or understanding basic boundaries. Obviously her fiancé knows that the connection isn't right.

 

Personally I would't go back. I think you would be better of giving yourself the dance to find someone closer to your own age who doesn't have as much baggage.

[mhowe]

I would tell her that you have all the closure you need --- and that her father has made his choices.

[lavenderdove]

>>So now him and his ex are just acquaintances and that they only speak on the phone when she's at work away from her fiance.

 

So they're still having an emotional affair behind the BF's back. Nothing has changed here other than his ex's BF 'busting' them and refusing to let it continue in the open, but it's STILL going on behind the scenes.

 

You need to be very careful here because this sounds like a case where the two of them are still deeply emotionally enmeshed and even 'in love', but perhaps they both lost the physical attraction for each other due to aging and not accepting that. So you're a good 20 years younger than he is, and he's got his 'young body' now, but his mind/heart is still enmeshed with the ex. So don't let the two of them use you to essentially carry on their tidy little emotional connection while triangulating other people in so that they can spice up their lives and still feel young and attractive and chase their youths which are rapidly receding.

 

And your ex is probably unhappy now because he has no access to you (sexual dry spell) plus he's not allowed as open access to his ex either now that her fiance has dropped the hammer on that. So he's moping around and whining to his daughter. But remember he had the choice to openly choose you and put his ex in the past, and he chose to hang onto her rather than fully commit to you. And now that his ex is only available to see him in the background with both of them lying about that contact, he's a bit lonely and has time on his hands.

 

So of course he's sad. Before, he had his cake and was eating it too. And now he has very little cake at all since you cut him off and his ex also ramped back on their contact because the fiance wouldn't allow it.

 

So you're right, nothing has changed. He needs to find someone who he feels strongly enough about that he feels both emotionally and physically connected to her. The problem now is he feels emotionally connected to Harriet, and he was happy as a clam having a 20 years younger woman in his bed as well. So now he barely has either and is miserable. That doesn't change anything between you. You need a younger man who is in the same life phase as you, without all the middle aged baggage and an ex he won't let go.

[Ms Darcy]

Of course he is having a hard time. He got a complete relationship with you plus the emotional connection to the ex. Now it's not complete anymore.

 

You need to stay no contact with him. Stay strong and do nothing that might lead to getting back with him. Tell his daughter that you have made your decision and she needs to respect that.

[Tanzi]

even obsessive and stalkerish if he resorts to contacting her fiancé in order to stay connected with them/him.

 

Oops, I meant "them/her".

[nutbrownhare]

Yes, it almost sounds as though his daughter's coming to you and saying "Please... just get this guy off my back - get back together with him so I can stop worrying."

 

The whole family's unhealthily enmeshed and the members over-involved in each other's lives. He shouldn't be using his daughter as a go-between. In fact he shouldn't be discussing his private life with his daughter at all. I wouldn't waste too much time or energy unravelling the complexities of their inter-relationships and inability to let go of inappropriate people - that's their stuff.

 

I get that this girl's very kind and well-intentioned, but your responsibility is to take care of your own emotional wellbeing. Period. Let her know that you have no intention of having any contact with her father at any time in the future, and wish them all well. Then continue your NC, continue your healing, and carry on with your own life.

[PurpleButterfly]

Well I was never going to go back in to that relationship. It's just as I stated she was a bit of a surprise visit! I get that she was concerned for her Dad's well being, I mean I would be too. I'll tell her that meeting her Dad is out the question. I think it would put us both back to square one. The thing is, all this has done for me is anger me because it awoke all my demons. It made me go over the relationship I had and how it ended and why. I'm so bitter at his EX for just coming between us. I DID understand that if they're friends then that's cool, but only to an extent is it cool. I even get that she's still in the picture with the family since she sort of raised his girls for many years (not so much as a motherly figure though).

 

But I just felt put on the spot. I haven't broke NC, nor do I intend too. I can see the whole breaking boundaries is unacceptable. For a long time I thought Harriet's man was always okay with their relationship but he apparently admitted that he's not okay with the amount of contact and monthly weekend visits. I don't blame him. The relationship he has/had with Harriet is way too much for anyone to handle. I don't think there's sexual attraction between them but there's still a deep rooted connection. I always just thought it was in my head has she's started a new life and got engaged. But it was never fair for me to be put 2nd place to her, ever.

 

Bit nervous about seeing his daughter and telling her no. I felt bad for her. I really did but as mentioned I've got to work on myself.

 

I wonder if he'll be happy continuing to live the way he does...

[agent1607307371]

It's only because he's been forced out of Harriet's life that suddenly everything I said to him makes sense, that I make sense.

 

I think that's what you need to focus on.

 

What she did was really inappropriate. It sounds like all this family have wonky boundaries. Just remember that you don't owe her or him anything, you have to take care of your own self first.

[PurpleButterfly]

I think that's what you need to focus on.

 

What she did was really inappropriate. It sounds like all this family have wonky boundaries. Just remember that you don't owe her or him anything, you have to take care of your own self first.

 

Yeah I am doing and I will continue to do so. I just felt a bit taken a back to see her, then her request made me feel like I should see him. But everyone including myself has talked me out of it. Totally wasn't expecting to see her, didn't even know she was in town!

[abitbroken]

I understand the need for him to be civil and to have a cordial relationship with his ex because they have kids together. Even though the daughter is an adult, they will see each other at weddings, birthday parties for the grandkids, and should be "on friendly terms" = able to be in the same room with eachother because of that and that is something everyone who marries someone with kids should expect. However, that does not mean they should have a close enough relationship to call and confide in their ex.

 

I think you did the right thing - you decided what your boundaries were and you stuck with them. You probably would have accepted that you needed to be on friendly terms - be able to conduct small talk with her should the daughter be married and you would be both at the wedding for appearance's sake, but expecting you to be close with the ex is outrageous to say the least.

 

I think you should tell the daughter that you care for her father, but you can't be in a relationship where another woman is put first. You understand that they will always be in eachother's lives because they have children together, but you will not be in a relationship where an ex is put first and foremost before a relationship.

 

Or you can just tell her simply "sorry, but i have not changed my mind." You really don't owe her anything. And even if she came on her own, dad will certainly get informed about what happened.

 

Perhaps he thought because of your age, you would be a naive sweet young thing who would put up with their relationship where women closer to his age would not?

[lavenderdove]

You owe this daughter nothing and don't need to see her in person. You have her phone number right? So call her and tell her you've thought about it and it is better for him to move on, or send her an email or text. You don't have to see her in person. He's 44 years old! And sending his daughter to try to manipulate/guilt you into seeing him? Really, he sounds immature and self centered... you are better off putting him behind you and meeting a man closer to your own age and without all the baggage and adult children acting as intermediaries to try to manage their father's love life.

[lavenderdove]

>>he did (and still does) drug runs for his ex and her fiance.

 

Ugh, I just read that in a prior thread... so they still share bank accounts and he does weed runs for her? Seriously, this guy is a loser. You need to find someone far better for yourself than some middle aged guy doing drugs and enmeshed with an ex. Perhaps there are more shady dealings/connections going on between them than you know about if there are drugs and money involved in their supposed 'friendship'.

[DancingFool]

You owe this daughter nothing and don't need to see her in person. You have her phone number right? So call her and tell her you've thought about it and it is better for him to move on, or send her an email or text. You don't have to see her in person. He's 44 years old! And sending his daughter to try to manipulate/guilt you into seeing him? Really, he sounds immature and self centered... you are better off putting him behind you and meeting a man closer to your own age and without all the baggage and adult children acting as intermediaries to try to manage their father's love life.

 

^This. You don't owe her anything and personally, I don't buy it that she wasn't sent by your ex. Just too wild for her to come looking for you like that unprompted when you two have never even met. Creepy really. Just goes to show you how much you needed to get away from these incredibly dysfunctional people, the whole family, not just your ex and Harriet (who is also dysfunctional).

 

Anyway, if you have her phone number, just text her that you have thought about it and decided it's best to keep away and move on and ask her not to contact you again. If she comes to your workplace, you can always send that message by proxy - ask the receptionist/co-worker/manager or whoever is available to give her the message. You can put a brief one line note in an envelope, so nobody needs to be told anything. It will also send a strong message to your ex and his daughter that you are truly done with this mess. Remember, that his daughter is an adult and is being consciously manipulative with you. She is not your friend and she doesn't have your interests in mind. What she is trying to pull here is truly creepy and extremely manipulative. She is not a child, she is a woman your own age! She knows what she is doing and it's not quite within the bounds of normalcy.

[pl3asehelp]

Ridiculous. He's a man child. Thought he could bully you and his ex's bf into accepting his sham of a 'friendship' he has with his ex and when everyone said hell no, he's just throwing a tantrum. Let him learn his lesson. Stay away from him and his daughter. You know if he had things his way he'd still have that scam friendship wih his ex going.

[PurpleButterfly]

Sorry I was meaning to say that his daughters are not from his ex Harriet but from a previous marriage. He married young had his daughters, divorced and then he met Harriet who he was with for many, many years. But his daughters stayed with him and Harriet quite a lot so she more or less raised them as her own. But she wasn't "motherly" she was more their buddy.

 

I'm not looking to rectify my relationship with Joseph. I'm really not. I just felt maybe I should see him again (I'm not going too) just to see if we can just agree to lead separate lives. I don't know for sure if his daughter came on her own accord or not. She found me because she knew where I worked. I don't have her number she just said she'd meet me at the coffee place. Although I'm just going to be blunt and say no. I think it's best.

 

I can see how dysfunctional they all are. I was looking at everything through rose tinted glasses. I tried to see the best in everyone and everything. But it's a lesson learned. It seriously hurt when he got a Christmas present for him and Harriet to go somewhere together, even though he's in a new relationship.

 

It was just such a shock when she turned up. There's no real talking to Joseph. I never approved of the drug runs whether it was for Harriet or someone else. He knew the risks of getting caught but still did it anyway. He would risk losing his job and getting a fine just to run her drugs. Even though that would totally ruin us if he got caught. God knows if he still does drug runs. Seems like her new man is becoming a hindrance to their relationship. Not that I care.

 

Anyway thanks all for the advice. I just needed some guidance on this weird situation. I can't talk to my family about it, they wouldn't advise me correctly.

 

Thanks xxxx

[DancingFool]

This would that case where it might be wise to stand someone up...... What if she brings daddy along? It's just drama you don't need and not something I would put past those two. If you decide to go meet her, just be mentally prepared for that possibility and have a quick exit strategy in place. You don't need the both of them tag teaming on you. Even if she is alone, have a quick exit strategy. State your decision, wish her well and tell her that you don't have time for further discussions. Don't give her a chance to manipulate you further. Don't stop to buy coffee, just deliver the message.

[abitbroken]

Ok - if the drug thing is true - that is all you need! I know you are not wanting to get back together and are just figuring out how to handle the daughter who visited you (from what sounds like out of town). Honestly, i might tell her if she comes by your work that you are firm in your decision, and to please not send anyone else coming to see you.

[PurpleButterfly]

This would that case where it might be wise to stand someone up...... What if she brings daddy along?

 

Hello,

 

Thanks for that valid point. I didn't consider it. I just trusted her when she initially said she came on her own accord. Turns out she did just turn up on her own. I agreed to see her as I just felt like I should, even if I was going to be blunt, I like to keep to my word. I did have an exit excuse prepared too.

 

I met her, said I wasn't prepared to meet her Dad as we no longer have a relationship and therefore it wouldn't be appropriate for either of us. She was disappointed, I really don't doubt her concern for her Dad. She seems like a polite young lady and much more responsive than her Dad. I know it was dysfunctional what she did, but I told her no. I also explained about the drug runs - he "no longer does them" apparently. But I explained all my reasons and she accepted what I said. She said she just thought she was doing the right thing by her Dad. I mean she even told me he asked her to ring his ex for a catch up and to say hello ... . I mean yeah Harriet (his ex) was a big part of their lives but she's not their biological mother. There was no room for me to grow in that relationship or into his family as there was always a ghost of Harriet everywhere I turned. I explained to his daughter that it was unfair for me to of been friends with a woman who was always going to come before me. If he had to choose between me and Harriet I would have been cut loose. To which, she understood. But her main focus was her Dad's welfare.

 

I also hated how he had two photos constantly on show of him and his ex.... always there in my face when I went to visit him in the past.

 

It sounded overall as though maybe not that he's been forced to quit contact or really limit his contact with his ex, is he now actually beginning the process of grieving over their relationship. Harriet dumped him over 2 years a go and within 2 months she met her new man. So maybe he'll grow up a bit. I wish him all the best, I really do.

 

And then we just said bye. And that was that.

 

I feel a bit sad now for everyone, including myself.

[lavenderdove]

Ah, I think this is what is going on now... note that your leaving and Harriet finally fully dumping him happened around the same time. So all this moping might REALLY be about Harriet giving him the final boot rather than missing you! So he is one sad puppy right now because the door to Harriet has closed, and he no longer has you around as his consolation prize. And note that it was Harriet and her fiancé who closed the door and not him, and he made it clear he'd lose YOU if you tried to close that door between him and Harriet. There is always a really high chance that he always wanted her back, and was waiting it out to see if she'd keep him around or not.

 

Yes, you are far better out of this mess. He needs to fully grieve the loss of Harriet, and only then can he get on with his life and be fully available to another woman. Not your job to be his backup plan/consolation prize!