What are you views on gender roles?

[John John]

Very true about women being able to act like men now... I have a very close friend who has no 'shame' admitting that she has slept with +100 men and I have another who doesnt mind telling people that she usually will do one night stands but they have tons of friends and the guys still flock to them.

 

I think it's the times... where people just think about themselves and dont care what others think. I admit I am a product of my generation but sometimes I do wonder if our morals and values (when it comes to dating, sex and relationships) have just gone down the drain.

 

 

I think these changes even affect women who are slightly older. The women in my family are very conservative...but one even commented that, if she could do it all over again, she wouldn't have waited until her wedding night to have sex (ironically, this was during a conversation where she was trying to talk me out of moving in with my ex because she never liked my ex...but MCJD shall digress...)

 

I never understood the stigma of women being branded as certain names, while men are "studs" or "players" for sleeping around. I mean, we ALL need it, for crying out loud...who the hell cares what others think?

[superfan]

With less emphasis on gender roles, we break barriers... And there is less focus on certain things. When people talk about not following gender rolesx means not following tradition, and basically embracing the modern. I'll save you the history lesson, but there was a reason for Greece to create the enforcement of the nucleus of a family, and for religions laws of marriage.

 

You don't have to give me a history lesson, I have a history degree and am a qualified history teacher. Yes, Greek society was one society that set up a specific family structure, but so did many many other societies and it's not hard to figure out why most societies that were RUN by men were set up to benefit men and keep them in charge.

 

Other societies such as the early Celts, and Native peoples of North America had largely matriarchal societies that were run and placed women in high positions of power. The family line ran through women and women went to war alongside their male counterparts. There is nothing "natural" about a patriarchal society, or a matriarchal for that matter. One sex should never have all the power. And it is definitely not the default.

 

So women are more open sexually, which doesn't bother me, the traditional man gets confused-, lots of examples on this forum, the traditional woman scoffs at her (read all the forums about how posters barrrage the poster about not sleeping with a guy on the first date). So, to make things short since I'm on my phone- again, the womanizers have it easier now, traditional women/men wonder where they fit in, what role do they play, what the new rules are.

 

When we talk about gender roles its notonlya about work and holding doors. There is a whole new persona that comes along with the changes for most people, new viewpoints and agendas.

Then there is the creation of more emotional and needy men, and more masculine acting women. I believe thats called masculine and femine polarities that change - too much to get into right now considering I'm around machines that are banging and clanking around me.

 

Men being encouraged to adapt to society's changes are a good thing. I don't think womanizers have it "easy" but I do think that these free-er roles open the doors for people who enjoy casual sex to do so. Women, can do the same. As for men becoming more "needy" I don't see it that way. The patriarchy hurts men too in the sense that it does not allow for men to express emotion/make themselves vulnerable. The rate of suicide for men is higher than women for a reason. There are immense pressures put on men to behave and act in specific ways. This is NOT natural. It is ALL societal constructs. Allowing for men to acknowledge and break out of these patterns is arguably far healthier.

[Thorshammer]

Im not sure why people keep bringing up jobs as the main point of focus for gender roles. Both men and women plowed the fields. But now in our modern society, both men and women can be CEOs, attend to college, and not face the stigma based on sex. So, I believe, this helps further shift the gender roles, but its by no means the point of aggression and sexuality of women, its born by freedom, that could have started with the workforce, or whatever catalyst started the wheels. Or, it could be that we are just less judgemental.

 

I always make it a point to stop seeing women like some fantasy that needs to be respected and cared for because she is a female (I extend respect to humans in general), and needs to be treated so. Unless she shows me she is from that state of mind, her intentions are no different than men, and I treat her like my equal, and I worry about her hurting me, cheating on me, or using me. When I scratched that idea and put this new concept in my head, the more I started to get it, as far as nyc goes.

[itsallgrand]

I was thinking of this thread last night. Went to the grocery store, yogurt was on sale, but the shelves had been licked rather clean. Except for a few way in the back at the very top. I'm short. Couldn't reach. Look around. There is a man standing there going over his grocery list and comparing yogurts. A tall man. Tall enough to reach the yogurt. Knew right away it would appear as a pick up, but wanted the yogurt enough to ask "excuse me. Sorry to bother you. I'm rather short, and you have long arms. Would you mind getting that yogurt up there for me?".

 

I never used gimmicks like this to talk to men, and I have an inherent dislike of playing off these gender role things. This one is well known; a woman asking and needing a man to do something for her, and the man feeling good as a result of it, and lots of women out there use this very thing all the time. From young to old.

 

I had mixed feelings when he was pleased as punch about it. Even asked me if I needed anything else once I was in produce section (he came from another aisle to ask me).

 

What do I think of gender roles?? Don't ask me, I'm just a girl. Now let's all have a big bowl of strawberry ice cream.

kidding.

 

What it boils down to for me is I don't identify with a particular role because of my gender; and I find it attractive when a guy doesn't form his identify around it either. I get a little turned off with too much 'gender play' - I'm more comfortable with a more varied sense of femininity/masculinity. When men start trying to jam me into their own ideas of what it is to be 'feminine', it's a turn off.

[Blue Spiral]

I can't stand players

 

Me either. I dislike the dishonest and manipulative aspects of players/PUA; I think that people should be upfront and honest with each other. Granted, I don't have any charm or tact, so "upfront and honest" is my only real option.

 

I honestly think gender roles are embedded in us, its just modern civil society and the belief in freedom that changed things.

 

This is where I disagree. I've never felt the urge to be a "traditional man", in terms of being a provider, acting strong, doing stereotypically-masculine things, etc. If it isn't genetically ingrained in me, I suspect that it's not ingrained in many others. That's why I think people should be free to choose, with no pressure one way or the other.

[superfan]

Im not sure why people keep bringing up jobs as the main point of focus for gender roles. Both men and women plowed the fields. But now in our modern society, both men and women can be CEOs, attend to college, and not face the stigma based on sex.

 

I wouldn't go that far. Progress has been made, but it is by no means equal yet. There are still a high disproportionate number of men in positions of power as opposed to women in all sectors be it political, entertainment, etc. Women absolutely DO still face difficulties in the workplace based on their sex. My sister told me that her boss admitted he didn't usually hire young women because "all they do is get pregnant and leave". My best friend was let go from her job on a technicality concerning maternity leave. There are still only about 5% of women in high positions in the entertainment industry which means most of the films, television shows, etc. that get made are made from a male perspective.

 

If you watch and pay attention to films that come out, the women in them are generally there either to fall in love with the male lead, get kidnapped/put in danger, and/or for eye candy purposes. VERY few films feature women in roles that don't involve some kind of romantic pursuit.

 

There is still a LONG LONG way to go.

[pl3asehelp]

...

 

I never understood the stigma of women being branded as certain names, while men are "studs" or "players" for sleeping around. I mean, we ALL need it, for crying out loud...who the hell cares what others think?

 

We don't all need sex so bad we're willing to have casual sex outside of relationships. What you mentioned is harmful to everyone - it pressures young men to behave a certain way regardless of how they feel.

[superfan]

We don't all need sex so bad we're willing to have casual sex outside of relationships. What you mentioned is harmful to everyone - it pressures young men to behave a certain way regardless of how they feel.

 

I don't think he was trying to say that our need for sex is pressuring everyone to sleep around outside of a relationship, but rather that the need for sex is a biological one and that we shouldn't judge anybody based on their gender who CHOOSE to do so. And I agree with this 100%

[Blue Spiral]

Men being encouraged to adapt to society's changes are a good thing. I don't think womanizers have it "easy" but I do think that these free-er roles open the doors for people who enjoy casual sex to do so. Women, can do the same. As for men becoming more "needy" I don't see it that way. The patriarchy hurts men too in the sense that it does not allow for men to express emotion/make themselves vulnerable. The rate of suicide for men is higher than women for a reason. There are immense pressures put on men to behave and act in specific ways. This is NOT natural. It is ALL societal constructs. Allowing for men to acknowledge and break out of these patterns is arguably far healthier.

 

Indeed. Feminism had the side-effect of enabling men to be more open about their emotions, and it's also made the culture much more sexually open. I wouldn't want to live in a world without it. If I'd been around in the 1950s, I would have been a square peg in a round hole. I would have been miserable in the Traditional Husband role (society would have shamed me into getting married, I'm sure), my wife would have been miserable (obvious reasons), and the kids I really shouldn't have created would have been miserable.

[chr8st8na]

I think these changes even affect women who are slightly older. The women in my family are very conservative...but one even commented that, if she could do it all over again, she wouldn't have waited until her wedding night to have sex (ironically, this was during a conversation where she was trying to talk me out of moving in with my ex because she never liked my ex...but MCJD shall digress...)

 

I never understood the stigma of women being branded as certain names, while men are "studs" or "players" for sleeping around. I mean, we ALL need it, for crying out loud...who the hell cares what others think?

 

ha im really not one to care what others think (i admit myself im a millienial)... but i do think about morals and values. True that morals and values are social construct (same for gender roles) but I do think about the possible implications if there werent any or if we were a society who put less emphasis on morals and values because we care so much about the freedom to do as we please without weighing the cons. so yes, i do think we all have to care to a certain point- thats how we connect to people and thats how we can connect as an effective community (which we sck at the moment- just look at our public servants we elected)

 

& yes there are cons to sleeping around for men and women alike... you can potentially hurt someone, you can get a reputation you arent proud of, you can continually lie to yourself, instead of healing u keep looking for a quick fix, and so on... just saying maybe sometimes its not a bad thing to care what others think so it can be a reminder of what you stand for and who u r.

[Batya33]

Deleted- misread post

[superfan]

I know of many people who have multiple partners and feel comfortable having casual sex but they are not more sexually open - the two don't always go hand in hand. For example, having multiple partners can let you keep your distance and close yourself off to other people because the only connection is physical/sexual and you don't have to risk the downsides of being close to someone. On the other hand having one partner in a long term relationship can promote sexual openness to trying new things because of the foundation of the closeness and the trust.

 

That doesn't mean marriage is for you but it also doesn't mean you're more open than someone in a long term committed relationship.

 

I think he meant more that it has enabled men to be more honest about specific aspects of society they don't fit into - like the traditional family mode.

[pl3asehelp]

Very true about women being able to act like men now... I have a very close friend who has no 'shame' admitting that she has slept with +100 men and I have another who doesnt mind telling people that she usually will do one night stands but they have tons of friends and the guys still flock to them.

 

I think it's the times... where people just think about themselves and dont care what others think. I admit I am a product of my generation but sometimes I do wonder if our morals and values (when it comes to dating, sex and relationships) have just gone down the drain.

 

Also note how every third person you meet has depression or some other mental health issue. People have no idea what really makes them content.

[Catherine_3]

I really like this post.

[Batya33]

I think he meant more that it has enabled men to be more honest about specific aspects of society they don't fit into - like the traditional family mode.

 

Yes you are right -I deleted my post.

[itsallgrand]

I may have missed it, but an obvious thing to anyone who has been around a little while is, that gender roles differ rather widely as well. There isn't one set of them. And some of them are really contradictory too. Amongst families, cultures, areas even.

 

For example, on the whole issue of casual sex. When I was going to high school, anyone - man or woman, girl or boy - who slept around a lot outside of longer term relationships was considered "s.ty". In some places, the emphasis is more on the female - she is a 's/t', but a man doing it is considered 'studly'. And in still other places, no one thinks anything of casual sex at all and you'll get lynched for 'sl/t shaming' if you have any reservations at all about the whole practice of it.

 

My point is, gender roles and ideas about values too are so different accross the span of people, that it's hard to even answer "wht do you think of gender roles" - well whose idea of them?? We are really lumping in a whole set of issues and ideas into one big ball here.

[Batya33]

We don't all need sex so bad we're willing to have casual sex outside of relationships. What you mentioned is harmful to everyone - it pressures young men to behave a certain way regardless of how they feel.

 

Yes, it can, I agree. I also think it encourages a lot of people -mostly women-to lie to themselves about how comfortable they are with having multiple partners and sleeping with near-strangers.

[pl3asehelp]

I don't think he was trying to say that our need for sex is pressuring everyone to sleep around outside of a relationship, but rather that the need for sex is a biological one and that we shouldn't judge anybody based on their gender who CHOOSE to do so. And I agree with this 100%

 

Well it's certainly ok and healthy to choose partners based on values compatible with your own. If a person doesn't have casual sex there's nothing wrong with only dating others who behave the same way. If you're talking about people you're not considering dating fine, yeah, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect me.

[Catherine_3]

I may have missed it, but an obvious thing to anyone who has been around a little while is, that gender roles differ rather widely as well. There isn't one set of them. And some of them are really contradictory too. Amongst families, cultures, areas even.

 

Agreed.

 

What does freedom for women mean? Is it all about the freedom to walk around nearly naked and sleep around? I personally have no issue with a woman who has many partners but what I take issue with is women letting their bodies become a public consumption good. Freedom for women has meant exploitation of women, in my opinion.

 

I would rather have my kids grow up in a society where a girl is "free" to dream of becoming the president.

 

Unfortunately the U.S. has never had a female president. Canada did for a very short period of time that barely counts.

 

Meanwhile, many Asian countries (India, Pakistan, the Phillippines, Sri Lanka) have, as well as many African countries (CAR just got a female president).

 

I think many little girls these days are too distracted obsessing over their bodies and dressing skimpy to take advantage of the freedoms that matter.

[mhowe]

Freedom for women means the right to vote; equal pay for equal work; title IX....

If young girls choose to sell their image instead of their abilities...it has nothing to do with freedom or gender roles.

[Catherine_3]

I think it has everything to do with gender roles when girls are constantly being bombarded with the message that their value as a person is defined by the extent to which they meet a certain standard of beauty.

 

And if American women are so free, why is it that they've never had a female president while the predominantly Muslim country of Pakistan has?

[mhowe]

Because no qualified American woman has run for president!

Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton are in no way equal to Indira Gandhi or Margaret Thatcher.

[pl3asehelp]

I think it has everything to do with gender roles when girls are constantly being bombarded with the message that their value as a person is defined by the extent to which they meet a certain standard of beauty.

 

And if American women are so free, why is it that they've never had a female president while the predominantly Muslim country of Pakistan has?

 

Pakistan is a joke. There may be a leader, but they have crooked elections there and extremists run the country - their president is just a figurehead. Having a female president for them is more about a ploy to cover up the actual role women have in that society.

[Catherine_3]

The U.S. is a pretty big country. I think it's safe to say that the problem is with the society and its institutions, rather than a lack of competent women.

[mhowe]

The U.S. is a pretty big country. I think it's safe to say that the problem is with the society and its institutions, rather than a lack of competent women.

 

It is not safe to say that at all. It is your opinion...and based on very little fact.

Most presidents have been senators or governors of very large states. They have built careers in politics and have substantial backing. While there are more and more women doing this...the time has not yet come for a strong woman to define this as her path and mobilize her base.

 

The size of the country is irrelevant...both Britain and Isreal are much smaller countries.