Jump to content

Open Club  ·  99 members  ·  Free

Journals

Starting Over....again.


faraday

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 4.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Thank you I can't stop smiling!! This is the first painting I've ever sold for more than $500...so this is pretty amazing And it takes so much stress off me...I was totally having a panic attack the day before...out of the 5 weeks in March, I've been able to actually work one of them...and it was the month of my show (which was essentially my business launch- no one had really heard of me up until that point)...and I actually made enough this month to pay everything. It's the first time I've been able to pay all my bills with my business profits since I opened back in September. Next month I have several appointments booked. I have two other painting inquiries...it's going to be okay *huge sigh of relief*

 

I keep randomly smiling and jay hugs me and says, "it's a good day." When I got the news about the painting last night, it's was 10:30 pm...and he went out and bought us cake to celebrate ...it was pretty sweet of him.

 

It's going to be okay. Sometimes I have my doubts...but I just have to believe.

Link to comment

Wonderful! Love your color sense... just keep at it, and you'll do fine! One thing artists do have to get used to is that you don't always have a level income... so try to bank a third of everything you sell for the future so that you don't have to worry so much if you get a dry spell or get sick etc.

Link to comment

Things have been really good with jay...but something is kind of sticking in the back of my head.

 

His best friend has come out from his hometown and is staying with him. He's been talking about it for a month. Her trip was for 9 days. She met a guy that lives here right around the time she booked this trip out....and said she would go stay with her bf when we left for Mexico. I wanted to leave on Wednesday ( it would give her and jay 6 days to hang out, and I would get back earlier so Tine would miss less school)...but he had it in his head that we would leave Thursday, and he booked it like that. Which is fine. It's just one of the many little things that are building.

 

Anyway, before she came out, my parents invited us out for a fancy family brunch. I asked Jay if he would go, and he declined saying he couldn't leave his friend. Even for 2 hours. I was really annoyed with him....because we didn't have any plans together during the 6 days...and I was asking for a few hours. Well, it turns out, she came into town early, stayed with her bf for the first 5 days of her trip (which upset jay) so he decided he could com from brunch...but at that point, I felt like the back up...so I wasn't feeling the love....even though he was being awesome...he gave me a massage, made me coffee in the morning, he unloaded the dishwasher for me...he was being really sweet...so I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt....and he's invited me to do a few things with him and his friend while she's in town....which I thought was nice.

 

After brunch I ended up hosting jay, his friend, her bf, jays cousin, jays other friend (who I'm friends with) and jays cousins wife. They played board games, and I painted and cooked....board games aren't my thing. So here's where I got upset. All the things had been kind of rolling around in my head...but then, when jays friend from out of town showed up, Jay barely acknowledged me in her presence. I stood right next to him a couple of times during the games...and nothing. I talked to his cousin and friend during that time...I mean, they were all sitting at my dining table. His out of town friend was cuddling touching her bf....and it was like I was invisible to Jay. I didn't sense that he's into her. It didn't feel like that. But it was just weird. She seems really nice, I like her. I like her bf. I have no objection to her and Jay being friends....but the way he disregarded me during that time...made me really uncomfortable. Jays cousins wife showed up later in the day, and commented on it out of ear shot of everyone..."what's going on with jay, did you guys fight? He's acting weird."....and we hadn't fought.

 

So when everyone left, I told him...I was pissed. That the way that he ignored me wasn't cool. He told me he didn't even notice me when I was standing next to him...I told him saying things like that didn't help his case. It was a long discussion...and he promised he wouldn't do that again. I told him I have no interest in hanging out with his friend and him...he can take time before the trip to spend with her...and he just said okay. I was hoping for a reaction of, "I want you two to get to know each other, I won't make you feel like a third wheel next time" but nothing. We leave Thursday morning for Mexico.

 

I want to say (before I get jumped on) that I'm fine with his friend. I'm fine with her staying with him...she seems really nice...and I think her and I could become friends...I'm not cool with he way I felt when jay was with her. And this isn't a jealousy thing, but he lives with a really attractive, girl our age- and I love her. We all hang out often. He has a few female friends, and this has never been an issue for me.

 

I was so mad. And I'm not sure how to look at it. I love and lie, this guy....I respect him...I generally see the best in him....but that...that wasn't my bf....that wasn't the guy I know. So...what now?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment

How did he react to you? How was he interacting with her? Sorry, I am just trying to get a picture in my head of what happened and I'm trying to figure out why he would essentially ignore you in her presence. Was he just outright ignoring you (not talking/not even looking at you) or was he just not being that physical or lovey with you while his friend was doing so with her bf? Just trying to get an idea here.

 

I'm sorry that you went through this, but I think it's cool that you two were able to talk things out a bit. I'm like you, when I'm pi___ed, I bring it up and I find that things work better when I do that and I am open and honest.

Link to comment

He was interacting with her like he was with everyone else. I was the only one who...he looked through. Normally he touches me all the time. He puts his arms around me, he touches my leg, he hugs me...normally I feel like he's pulled to me. When we went out for brunch with my family, he held my hand, he rested his arm on the back of my chair, he pressed his leg against mine while we ate, he rubbed his foot against mine...at one point, he kissed my forehead...he's a VERY physically affectionate person. Not ever inappropriate...he's just very sweet. My parents adore him. We went to a store after brunch, we had a stir stick sword fight while waiting for paint....at home, his buddy and cousin arrived before his out of town friend....and he had his arm around me while they were there. We were all joking around, he would laugh and give me little elbows...

 

Then his out of town friend showed up...and it was like I wasn't there. I had to go pick up his cousins wife, so I sat down in a chair next to jay and touched his leg....and he didn't acknowledge me. So...I sent him a text saying "going to get c, watch the potatoes, I'll be back in an hour"...and he immediately responded with a "okay babe

 

It was so confusing. After dinner, he didn't sit next to me in the living room (and he always sits next to me)...

 

But he didn't seem bothered by his out of town friends bf being all over her....and he didn't put any extra attention on her...so....I don't get it. She left earlier than everyone else....then he came and sat with me....and tried to be cuddly (which at that point, I had no interest in).

 

w....t......f

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment

We talked about it. He apologized. I accepted his apology...so now it's my job to let it go...and I think that will blow over in a few days...but I just wanted others opinions on it so that I can keep my eyes open while moving forward with him. My knee jerk reaction was thinking....that our time is limited. I'm not interested in being treated like that every time she comes into town (which will probably be a lot more frequently now that she's met a guy here).

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment

Huh, not cool, I say

 

Well, you did your part and talked to him about and he acknowledged it and promised not to do it again. I totally get being pissed, but I think when you encounter bad or weird behavior, it's best to sorta let it go the first time (after calling attention to it) and then see what happens subsequent times. If he does it again...and then again...well 3 strike rule.

 

From what you have written, it sounds like there is no lingering or latent romantic stuff going on between them (which is what I suspected at first) so that's good at least...but ya it sounds odd.

Link to comment

maybe he just had weird nerves about you guy meeting for the first time, like maybe you two wouldn't like each other (maybe he has had ex GFs in the past that didn't get along with this girl or who were jealous of their relationship, so just bad experiences etc), and this is his best friend so I am assuming that he hopes that you two will get along so that you can all hang-out successfully in the future,...so maybe he was nervous and that affected his behaviour...???

Link to comment

I asked him a few days ago if he was nervous about us meeting, and he said "no, you guys will get along great." And I told him I was nervous about meeting her because we have NOTHING in common (her and Jay have identical interests...jay and I don't share many really, but our values match up, and we enjoy each other's company...and that's enough for us...but maybe a bit weird for her and I to forge much of a bond) and I wondered what we'd talk about. As it turned out, she didn't talk unless it was directly related to the game....and it was a group, so it wasn't awkward....but I don't think her and I said anything really to each other beyond the greeting and departure...ugh. I so wanted this to go well. I wanted to connect with her...I don't want it to be awkward.

 

I think you're right though about seeing how things go. I wouldn't be interested in sticking around with him if it's always going to be like this....I mean...next time she comes out, if she's not dating the same guy at that point, she'll be staying with me because jay is moving in. I can't do a week of being ignored...

 

I think he got the message not to pull that again though....I was pissed. I've never been mad at him like that before. I'm happy that we can talk through things...I'm glad that he can empathize with me.

 

He initially said he didn't think he acted different....but after I told him everything, he admitted he was acting weird- but that it wasn't intentional.

 

I just don't understand what that was. I think that's why it's bugging me....I don't understand...

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment

So I met a lady a few weeks ago and liked her (she had a good vibe. We're both single parents and live close)...we met up for coffee...and I was excited...I need to make new friendships...

 

So most of my former friends had been around for decades. We knew each other inside and out- newer friendships that informed were through those people...so we kind of knew what we were getting into. Most of those I have either ended or pushed back to acquaintance status.

 

So meeting up with this new lady was interesting. I quite like her...but I am not sure what to think. Firstly, she WAY overshared. Like said things, and I had no idea how to respond because they were so personal. She says she's "open". I think I'm pretty open...and I was shocked. Then, it turns out were completely the opposite. She's a big advocate for organics and holistic medicine (she's a raki master or something). She believes in spirits and God...and while all that is fine, I wonder if opposites can be friends. Initially, I was hoping we'd be able to double date, but when she started talking about how her bfs brothers ghost was haunting him, I knew jay would definitely be out on that date night.

 

I'm struggling to find people like me.

 

 

On a side note, jay and I talked last night. He said wants us to go bowling with his out of town friend. I asked if her bf could come, but he's busy, so I invited one of jays other buddies who I'm friends with. I'm actually kind of excited.

 

Jay told me his out of town friend likes me, and thought it was really cool that I don't play board games but I let them play for 5 hours without hanging around bugging them to finish. So that's good. I thought she'd be wondering if we were even dating based on jays and I interactions that day

Link to comment

OK, my assessment of the Jay/best friend thing.

 

I see this as a yellow flag. By that i mean, if he treats you totally different when she is around, and doesn't act this way when everyone else in the world is around you two, then there is something not right there and she obviously holds some kind of 'special' hold on him. And given she has a BF, my assessment would be that perhaps he has more than friendly feelings for her, and she has either rejected him as a potential suitor (but he is still crushing on her) or else she has a BF and he has not had the opportunity (yet) to convert her from friend to lover but he is biding his time hoping that one day that might come to pass.

 

A third and really unpleasant potential is that they've had a long standing FWB arrangement behind the scenes regardless of whatever partners they have. There are indeed people who do this, and you might be picking up on the fact that when the 2 FWB are in the room with their own partners as well, there is a case of 'divided loyalties' bubbling to the surface where they don't want to kill their own mutual attraction by flaunting their affections for their own current partners.

 

Now, if he has admitted he behaved differently, he MUST know the reason for it, or else he is in denial or trying to cover it up because he is scared what might happen if you know the real truth. It could be that he has a longstanding desire/love for this woman that is unrequited and embarassing to him, but he knows odds are slim she'll ever have him so he is now with you, but not willing to totally give up hope on her yet.

 

So i think this is a little sign for you that you need to take it slow with him until you get to the bottom of what is going on here. You don't want to be the consolation prize. And if he is someone who has FWBs, if you want monogamy he's not a good choice.

 

And research shows that most men in happy marriages identify their wives as their 'best friend.' So he should be identifying YOU as his best friend and putting YOUR priorities over anybody elses. So if he is dumping your parents and you and scheduling your plans around him trying to maximize 'alone' time with his 'best friend' something is not quite right there. He needs to either let her go and recognize that YOU need to be his best friend and he needs to cool it/cut it off with her because she is potentially dangerous to your own bond or he needs to really get to the bottom of his feelings and resolve them. And if he can't see her just like any other male friend rather than a 'special' female best friend where he drops you when she's around, then you need to reconsider whether he is really in love with you or more in love with her and only not with her because she won't have him.

Link to comment

btw, here is the conversation I would have with him if i were in your shoes:

 

'You basically ignored me and treated me like your sister rather than your GF when X was here, and acted totally differently than i've ever seen you act around anyone else. And you tried to dump me and my parents in favor of her, and actually changed our vacation plans to squeeze one more evening out of her, and were angry when she spent more time with her BF rather than you.

 

That adds up to something that is NOT good as far as you and I are concerned, because you are showing signs of jealousy and possessiveness related to her, while you are ignoring me in her presence. This makes me feel like you don't want her to see our bond and are more focused on her than on me. If you have any unresolved feelings of attraction or love for her, now is the time to talk about it.'

 

Then see what he says. He most likely will lie even if he does have feelings because he knows she's not having him right now, and he won't want to lose you/be alone. If he does admit to it, then you need to explore that and talk about how he needs to straighten that stuff out and make up his mind about who he wants before he considers moving in with you or getting serious with you, because you don't intend to be someone's consolation prize because someone else is not available to him.

 

You also need to tell him that for your relationship to survive long term, then YOU need to be his best friend rather than him having some other woman as his best friend. So it is time for him to start working on letting her go since he obviously is too attached to her, for the sake of your relationship and him bonding with you fully the way he should. And that if he doesn't see you as his best friend, and if he is going to put other 'friends' needs above your needs, then there's no point to this relationship.

 

So you basically let him know in no uncertain terms that he needs to treat you with the respect you (and your relationsihp) deserve, and he needs to sever any potentially over close/attraction bonds with other women if he wants to be with you. And that probably means that he needs to wean this 'best friend' out of his life if he puts in some kind of special category that is between friend and lover, because that is not good for your relationship.

 

Any marriage counselor would tell you if there is any kind of special attraction or over-attachment to another person of the opposite sex other than his own spouse/partner, he needs to cut her out of his life to focus on your relationship and avoid any pitfalls that might damage it. And what you just got was some pretty clear signs that he holds her in a special category where there is attraction to her, or he wouldn't have treated you the way he did in her presence, and he wouldn't have been putting your vacation plans and parents on the back burner in order to maximize his alone time with her. So you need to nip this in bud, and if he won't, then it's a clear sign that he's not fully emotionally available to you because he is hung up on his 'best friend.'

 

I have had cases in my life where I have seen these types of attractions and I would have no ambivalence at all telling him it is time to chill that relationship with her out if he wants to be with you, because that is defining healthy boundaries that protect your relationship and ensure you don't get in too deep wtih someone who would dump you in a heartbeat if that other special person showed interest in him. He needs to be clear on what he wants and what his priorities are, and that needs to be you and your relatinsihip, and if that's not clear to him, then you need to tell him to take some time and make up his mind but you're not going to be in a relationship with unhealthy boundaries or where he's jonesing for some other woman, regardless of him calling her 'just a friend' or not.

 

Don't let him try to shame you or manipulate you into thinking you should be a 'cool girl' who tolerates all kinds of weird and weak boundaries between him and other women. You know what you want and need, and stick to it, and demand respect and proper boundaries/treatment, or send him on his way.

Link to comment

I echo chickadees statement that I think it's important to find out why he acted the way he did. It would be good to know. He clearly knows that he ignored you, he acknowledged that. The question is why. The answer could be insidious, like chickadee said, or maybe it's more innocent. Maybe he's one of those people who is very used to keep friends separate from each other and compartmentalizes so he struggles when the two meet. I have no idea.

Link to comment

^^

The only reason i suggest it might be unresolved feelings or something deeper is he is fine around every other friend he has, but his behavior is different around this one woman.

 

Sometimes men are less affectionate with their partners around their male buddies because they want to look macho and don't want to look 'whipped' if they're into being 'manly men' kind of guys. And some people are more reserved around their parents if the parents are really religious and don't believe in PDA.

 

But she says Jay is extremely physically affectionate all the time, and around everyone except this one girl. That is a clue she needs to follow and not just write off until she is sure it is not an indication of unrequited love on his part or some kind of behind the scenes FWB thing going on between them. He needs to resolve those feelings (or she needs to find out he's a cheater) before she really commits to him. And they both need healthy boundaries when it comes to the opposite sex, and that might include no 'bestest friends' with them if he gets confused about his feelings when he is hanging around with other women.

 

He might just have an attraction to this other woman that has gotten out of control and really distracts him when he is around her and needs to be nipped in the bud if he really wants his relationship with the OP to work out. Or he may be confused about it because he and the other woman have gotten (too) emotionally intimate/enmeshed when he should not be that emotionally intimate with anybody but his partner, who should be his best friend, or they shouldn't be together. It is dangerous if he is identifying one woman as his best friend and is trying to have a relationship with someone else, because he is splitting his emotions and not fully dedicating himself to emotional intimacy with his partner.

 

So what i see as unusual warning signs in this case are his anxious desire to spend a whole week alone with her including taking off a week (a week is a precious lot of vacation time that could be spent with his partner), he got jealous/annoyed when the woman wanted to spend more time with her BF than with him, he postponed the start of their couples' vacation to try to leverage more time with this other woman, and he was not willing to cough up even a couple hours of their time together to spend familly time with the OPs parents until this other woman blows him off. All those are signs that he is overenmeshed with this other woman he if he is prioritizing time with her above time with her partner.

 

So this could be salvageable if it is just a case of him being confused, or inappropriate boundaries that have led him to get too attached to this other woman in ways he is not fully aware of but needs to stop. Or it could be unrequited love, in which case he needs to cut off this other woman entirely if he wants to form a lasting bond with the OP. Or this woman could be a FWB where he is now annoyed because their fun little FWB time together was interrupted by this other woman's new interest in another man.

 

It's really simpler than people think. You should only be with someone you can perceive as your best friend and who puts their priorities on the family/couple, and if anybody else slips into that role or is interfering between the couple, then that person needs to go, or the couple needs to recognize they have divided loyalties which means the relationship is not as great/stable/permanent as they thought it was. They need to investigate what is going on and make hard choices, whether that is jettisoning the 'friend' who is a threat to the relationship, or breaking up because they are not as compatible or attached as they thought they were because someone else is holding a big attraction that comes between them and prevents them being both best friends and lovers.

 

I hate to suggest this but I think that maybe the OP should re-think letting him move in with her after this incident. They may not be ready as a couple to go to that next step and get her daughter even more attached to him if he is still conflicted about how committed he is or he still considers another woman his best friend and seems to be overly attached to her. You can actually put more stress on a relationship by trying to play house too soon before both people are 100% committed to the relationship with no ambivalence about it.

 

My personal opinion is you shouldn't move in together with anybody (especially if there is a child involved) until you are engaged and/or have that level of commitment to each other. He just showed her with this other woman that he isn't there yet. SHE may be ready for it, but i don't think he is....

Link to comment

Hmm, I'm not sure. I would have been upset too.

It does sound like there is something fishy going on between him and his best friend. Whether it is anything romantic or not, not enough to go on. But definitely something here in that dynamic which brings out the worst in your boyfriend. Something unhealthy in their dynamic maybe.

 

I actually find it rather rude that she came to your house, which you opened up to her and her boyfriend and the group. and barely spoke to you! that's just bad manners, in my book. Especially when it comes to friends, and knowing it is a friends girlfriend whom he is planning to move in with and it's serious, and you are the 'best friend' who is a woman.

I know for me, and I know you would Faraday because you just strike me as that kind of person, I would be going out of my way to talk to the girlfriend of that friend, and I would want to put in the effort for that and for things to run smoothly.

She was playing a game but she could have taken a little break to get up and talk to you, show appreciation?!

Because you want your friends to be happy, and with a friend who has boundaries...you know too if you act like a dink that it will be you who is cut down in interactions with that friend. And as it should be; a person's partner should be respected.

And from what you wrote, it gave me this impression like she came and basically just used the space like you would a hotel or game room or something....I just don't like that. Well end of my rant on that; but I do think it may play into the bigger dynamic.

 

Apparently she had plans to visit her boyfriend after you left for Mexico, but changed that and decided to stay with him eating into the time she had planned with Jay. Even as a friend, yeah, that's pretty crappy and I could see why that would upset him.

 

Maybe she is just rude and she brings out the rude in Jay. I've seen that happen. Some 'friends' bring out the worst in certain friends, because they have been friends so long, they put up with things they wouldn't accept from anyone else, and it's down this bad dynamic they go.

 

On the other topic, about meeting new friends....I hear ya. I'm trying too. Sorry that one was a miss. But you are out there open to it, so I'm sure you will someone who gets you soon.

 

And you must be excited about going to Mexico?! Are you taking your girl? Or is this a romantic get a way?!

 

I hope you have oodles of fun and maybe it's good you can get away for a bit right now. It will give you a fresh perspective on everything, going forward.

Link to comment

Hey thanks for all the responses everyone

 

I'm actually sitting poolside right now...this has been really nice to take a break.

 

So I told jay how disturbed I was about his behaviour...and he invited me out on Wednesday with them. It was fine. When they weren't immersed in the game, Jay was his usually physically affectionate self. He held my hand, put his arm around me...his friend and I got to know each other...it went much smoother. I'm not concerned about his friendship with her...I really do think it was him being not good at multitasking that day....and not realizing how his actions came accross. It's been fine.

 

Lately I have been having those doubts thigh about our future...we are different in some ways (which is to be expected) and I'm trying to determine the balance between settling and being way too picky. We get along so great. I always have fun with him. He's better than I could have ever hoped for in terms of him being a potential stepfather to my daughter, and I think he'll make a great husband. When I talk to him about something, he always listens. He always makes me feel validated and he always addressed my concerns with the most direct manner possible. He's a good man.

 

My main concern? Initially this wasn't a big deal because we were new so we were both learning and insatiable about each other....but now a year in...I'm not sexually satisfied. He doesn't try to last longer than 5 minutes, and while he's happy to do hours of manual foreplay, he will not do oral. He says he hates oral, always has...he'll do it when I beg...but it's not as satisfying for me...because I don't want to make him. I mean, I've dated guys that wanted to give me oral for hours on end, multiple times a day...and begged to give it to me....and that's hot. But this...turns me off. He also wants sex much less than me...which would be fine if the quality went up...but it doesn't. And so...I'm left wondering if I'm settling...or if I'm just being too damn picky. I mean, we do have the occasional thing that comes up...but he wants me to be happy...so he fixes it. But no amount of talking to him fixes this. I've brought it up twice...and both times he's said "he'll try"...and I mean, I give the guy credit, he'll tease me for like an hour...but my orgasms are half as strong as they are when I've been with better lovers...and I have one with him (as opposed to 4-7 with past lovers).

 

I always say, you only get to have sex with one person...pick someone you have good sex with. The opposite side of that though....is that I've had great lovers...and we didn't get along at all. The only good thing about them was their penis utility. That's not to say I couldn't find everything in one guy...but maybe im looking for a chupachabra....a unicorn.

 

So what is the difference between settling and being too picky?

 

 

Thoughts?

Link to comment

Is the sex issue the only issue you're concerned about?

 

First of all, he's always disliked oral and you've known that. I think it would be unfair for you to expect oral from him when it's clearly something he has always disliked. I was with a man for years who hated to do oral. Honestly, we worked around it, it wasn't a big deal. It was always, always a turn off for him and so I didn't ask him for it. It's something that can either be accepted or rejected in the beginning. It sounds like he was a good enough lover in other ways so that you accepted this and moved on at that point.

 

I do think if someone really hates doing a certain sex act, not out of laziness, they just HATE doing it and always have/ always well, they shouldn't be pressured into doing it. I don't think a man who has a repulsion to oral is a selfish or bad lover, but he needs to be willing to "make up" for it in pother ways. And it doesn't sound like Jay is doing that, if he's not striving to please you that much and won't try to last longer than 5 min.

 

Have you specifically told him "I need you to last longer than 5 min?" Maybe he can better "Fix it" if he knows exactly what you want done, versus a vague "I want our sex life to improve."

 

Totally up to you. I don't have any real advice. I think it's truly a matter of what you're willing or not willing to put up with. It may take some time to really think about things and see how you feel. I just don't think it would be fair to judge him on the oral issue when it's something you've known about this whole time. It sounds like the real issue is that he's not putting in effort and you two have mis-matched drives. Again, this can be remedied but both have to be the on the same page.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...