Having second thoughts...

[MattW]

I don't think that's what you think you're settling for. That's why I used the term fairy tale to describe what you're planning even though you used it for a different purpose.

 

I don't really follow...

[Batya33]

I don't really follow...

 

I think you think you're settling for simply having the sex part of the whole package -and you have certain expectations about the pleasure you'll get from having sex, albeit only physical pleasure. I think your expectations of physical pleasure are unrealistic because, since you're a person who really wants sex in the context of a romantic relationships and since you also are rather introverted/have social issues I don't think you'll get that pleasure you're expecting.

 

Oh and as far as your sarcastic sense of humor -I'd be careful you're not crossing the line too much or using sarcasm as a way to keep distance between you and others -that sure can hurt the chance at connecting with someone.

[blueidealist24]

 

Oh and as far as your sarcastic sense of humor -I'd be careful you're not crossing the line too much or using sarcasm as a way to keep distance between you and others -that sure can hurt the chance at connecting with someone.

 

This last part makes sense to me, since I've read in psychology books that often reserved people use humour and sarcasm so they don't have to open up to others. That could hinder connections that you might be able to make otherwise.. I'm really not sure though.

[MattW]

I think you think you're settling for simply having the sex part of the whole package -and you have certain expectations about the pleasure you'll get from having sex, albeit only physical pleasure. I think your expectations of physical pleasure are unrealistic because, since you're a person who really wants sex in the context of a romantic relationships and since you also are rather introverted/have social issues I don't think you'll get that pleasure you're expecting.

 

Can you go into more detail about what's unrealistic about my expectations, here?

 

Oh and as far as your sarcastic sense of humor -I'd be careful you're not crossing the line too much or using sarcasm as a way to keep distance between you and others -that sure can hurt the chance at connecting with someone.

 

This last part makes sense to me, since I've read in psychology books that often reserved people use humour and sarcasm so they don't have to open up to others. That could hinder connections that you might be able to make otherwise.. I'm really not sure though.

 

*shrug* It's just the type of humor I tend to enjoy. Honestly, that's the reason I'm very reserved around most people, because I KNOW my sarcastic/ snarky sense of humor can come off as offensive and mean-spirited (even though I almost never mean it to), so rather than "be myself" around people, I tend to just keep my mouth shut and smile politely. That's also why it takes me so long to get to a friendly level with people, because I have to sort of ease them in to my sense of humor and my perspective, and that can take a while. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a lot of people are too patient with that kind of thing; you either knock their socks off right from the get go, or you're just some guy that gets overlooked and becomes a blip on the radar.

 

That's a big reason I was (and still kinda am) so attached to the last girl I liked. She and I had the exact sense of humor, and saw eye to eye on so many things. I never felt like I had to "water myself down" for her, or "ease her into my personality". I could just be me, and it was great. I really liked the way that felt.

[Snow Bird]

Don't get discouraged. You are only 24 years old. That's still pretty young. I think you should wait until you feel it's right. I think you might regret your first time being with someone you don't love. After all, it's something that you will always remember.

[Batya33]

I think you expect that having sex will be like fulfilling half of what you want as if you can compartmentalize what you want. I don't think you will experience fulfillment from having intercourse with a near stranger. I think you may end up feeling even less satisfied than you do now.

[MattW]

Well, a big part of my reasoning (as well as a reason that I'm feeling uncomfortable and nervous) is that I'm sad and hurt that the girl I had real feelings for doesn't want me and has dated (and slept with) idiots instead. In some way, I want to "balance things out" and hopefully use this as a way yo help get over my feelings for her.

[Batya33]

Well, a big part of my reasoning (as well as a reason that I'm feeling uncomfortable and nervous) is that I'm sad and hurt that the girl I had real feelings for doesn't want me and has dated (and slept with) idiots instead. In some way, I want to "balance things out" and hopefully use this as a way yo help get over my feelings for her.

 

Then I think, very strongly, that it's even a worse idea.

[annie24]

Well, a big part of my reasoning (as well as a reason that I'm feeling uncomfortable and nervous) is that I'm sad and hurt that the girl I had real feelings for doesn't want me and has dated (and slept with) idiots instead. In some way, I want to "balance things out" and hopefully use this as a way yo help get over my feelings for her.

 

And i'm sure that there are guys that she really cared about who didn't want to date her. I mean, it sucks, but that's life. Even famous models and actors have been rejected at some point. it's really not fun, but that's life, and you kind of have to move on, and not have sex to try to 'get even.' If you want to have sex with this woman, go ahead and have sex, and enjoy it, but do it for the fun and the experience, not to settle some cosmic score.

[MattW]

Then I think, very strongly, that it's even a worse idea.

 

Can I ask why?

 

And i'm sure that there are guys that she really cared about who didn't want to date her. I mean, it sucks, but that's life. Even famous models and actors have been rejected at some point. it's really not fun, but that's life, and you kind of have to move on, and not have sex to try to 'get even.' If you want to have sex with this woman, go ahead and have sex, and enjoy it, but do it for the fun and the experience, not to settle some cosmic score.

 

Yeah, I know. But I'm just so attached to that girl, she was really everything I've ever wanted in a person, and I've never been more attracted to anyone than I was to her. I just can't move on from the feelings I had for her, because it really felt like a "once in a lifetime" kind of thing. Nothing is doing the trick, I don't WANT to let go of the feelings I have for her, but I know I can't do anything about them, and the pain from it all really gets to me often. I didn't mean for it to sound like I'm looking to have sex to "get even" with her, but if she's going to be with and "have fun" with guys that aren't me, I feel like I need to prove to myself that I can go "have fun", too. Perhaps casual sex is a bit of an extreme variation of that, but from my perspective, it gets me to the same destination, regardless.

[blueidealist24]

You've never done anything with a girl, right? Maybe you should take it a bit slower, like not have sex the first time but just make out, see each other naked, maybe fool around. That way you'll get a better idea of whether you can actually handle the FWB thing (emotionally), without going all-in.

[Batya33]

You can move on. But you choose not to. I agree with what Annie wrote about your reasons for having casual sex. Also keep in mind you really did not know this person and certainly didn't know her in the context of a long term romantic relationship. Very easy to build up images and part-fantasies in your head as an excuse not to do the work I've been posting about as have others.

 

Agree with Blueidealist that you might want to try fooling around some without getting naked the first time -that's far less harmful in every way.

[jonny15]

You've never done anything with a girl, right? Maybe you should take it a bit slower, like not have sex the first time but just make out, see each other naked, maybe fool around. That way you'll get a better idea of whether you can actually handle the FWB thing (emotionally), without going all-in.

 

To be fair...when will his next opportunity come if he doesn't go all the way?

 

What if she feels rejected for him not wanting sex the first time?

 

If the opportunity is there, then it needs to be taken.

[MattW]

You can move on. But you choose not to.

 

I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree. I don't want to "move on", and I fully agree that that's what's making it so hard for me. I don't want to move on because I feel like there's nothing to "move on" to. This girl gave me something specific, something defined, to work towards and focus on. If I let go of the feelings I have for her, what do I have? I'm left with no one, I'm left with a giant question mark, I'm left having to hope that *maybe* some day, years down the line, I'll like another girl, and then I have to also hope that *maybe* she'll also be attracted to me (but most likely, she won't be).

 

I don't deny that I don't want to "move on" from this girl, but what I'm looking for, I guess, is a reason to "move on". If I can go have a lot of sex and a lot of fun with some older woman for a while, maybe that will show me that there's more to sex and romance than just a traditional "boy and girl like each other, date, etc." kind of relationship. Maybe I can get away from wanting a relationship I know I can never have by experiencing a "relationship" that's completely different. Maybe once I see what else is out there, and find other ways to derive pleasure, I can give myself a reason to let go of the feelings I have for this other girl. Maybe I can learn that I don't need a woman to share my personality with, maybe I can do that with other people, maybe I can have a woman that I just derive physical pleasure and a little conversation from.

 

Also keep in mind you really did not know this person and certainly didn't know her in the context of a long term romantic relationship. Very easy to build up images and part-fantasies in your head as an excuse not to do the work I've been posting about as have others.

 

Well, yeah, but I mean, you can say this about any case of unrequited feelings. All I'm saying is, I was attracted to this girl in a way that I've never been attracted to a girl before. This was on a completely different level than anything I've ever experienced before, and that's why it's been such a big deal to me. I haven't really been "fantasizing" about she and I; everything I've ever thought about her has been very grounded in reality (this is part of the reason this attraction is "different" to me; I've had the kind of "fantasy" type of attraction you're describing in the past, I know what that's like). I like her for who she is, and I honestly believe her qualities and my qualities would make us a great match and a great pairing.

 

To be fair...when will his next opportunity come if he doesn't go all the way?

 

What if she feels rejected for him not wanting sex the first time?

 

If the opportunity is there, then it needs to be taken.

 

Yeah... Honestly, I think I'm going to just try to push myself to go through with this. This has worked out to be a very ideal situation for me. If I don't follow through with this woman, I'd be letting such an easy opportunity pass me by, and then what? If I don't do this, I'll just spend the next several months lamenting over how lonely I am, how I can't find anyone I want to date, I'll probably be devastated when the girl I actually have feelings for leaves for a new job and I never see her again, and I'll probably spend all of next year (and several years after that) lamenting that I'm still alone, still can't find anyone, etc. I can do that, or I can do something completely different, I could try my hand at having some fun sex with no strings attached, I could have a little fun, and just enjoy being a dumb 20-something year old for once in my life, instead of being the responsible hopeless romantic type that I've always been.

 

Okay, so let me start getting to some more sex-specific questions. Er, well, I guess I only have one right now, because someone mentioned this to me elsewhere, and I found it a bit obtuse, so I'm wondering about it. I know oral sex is going to be a thing with this woman, and someone elsewhere said to think about using dental dams. I've heard of this usage before, a long time ago, but do people really do that? How dangerous is it really to give a woman oral sex without some kind of "protection"? Is this something people actually use, or is it a little too "out there"? Where does one even acquire these? Are they really worth going out of the way to find and use?

[Batya33]

"Well, yeah, but I mean, you can say this about any case of unrequited feelings. All I'm saying is, I was attracted to this girl in a way that I've never been attracted to a girl before. This was on a completely different level than anything I've ever experienced before, and that's why it's been such a big deal to me. I haven't really been "fantasizing" about she and I; everything I've ever thought about her has been very grounded in reality (this is part of the reason this attraction is "different" to me; I've had the kind of "fantasy" type of attraction you're describing in the past, I know what that's like). I like her for who she is, and I honestly believe her qualities and my qualities would make us a great match and a great pairing."

 

Right. The "who she is" is very limited by the extent and level of your interactions with her -and none of them have to do with dating, much less a romantic relationship. I can relate to what you feel for her and I guess I'll pull the age card and say that I now understand and accept that those types of feelings based on limited knowledge and types of interactions are far too based on your own idealization to be grounded in enough reality to come to those conclusions.

[Batya33]

"Okay, so let me start getting to some more sex-specific questions. Er, well, I guess I only have one right now, because someone mentioned this to me elsewhere, and I found it a bit obtuse, so I'm wondering about it. I know oral sex is going to be a thing with this woman, and someone elsewhere said to think about using dental dams. I've heard of this usage before, a long time ago, but do people really do that? How dangerous is it really to give a woman oral sex without some kind of "protection"? Is this something people actually use, or is it a little too "out there"? Where does one even acquire these? Are they really worth going out of the way to find and use?"

 

I think that if you have sex with someone where you don't have her STD test results and trust that they are accurate (meaning she abstained for long enough so that any HIV antibodies would be reflected on the test) you're taking a serious health risk. If you have unprotected oral sex even a greater risk. I think it's "out there" to take those risks with a stranger.

[MattW]

See, the big thing here is that at the end of the day, whether or not I go through with this is all my decision. It's completely up to me, and it's up to my judgment. The problem with that is that I have zero experience with which to make a sound judgment on this. I know there's plenty of risks, but there's a bit of "reward" as well. To be honest, I'm extremely paranoid and distrustful of people in general; if I submit to that mentality, then I'll NEVER have sex, though.

 

Perhaps this woman could be lying about her STD status, or giving me other false information, but couldn't ANY woman do that? Heck, I could date a girl "for real" for months, trust her, and feel she's a genuinely good person, and then find out she lied to me about something big, or chose not to tell me about some STD she had, and it would be just as much of a problem (probably more so, because at this point, I'd have built up real trust with this person, only to find it was for nothing).

 

Not to mention, I'm sure there are plenty of women that enjoy casual sex and FWB relationships while still being safe and responsible. Who's to say this woman isn't one of them? If she is, I'd hate to let this opportunity pass by, because it could be a lot of fun. But it all comes back to the fact that it's up to me to make that judgment call, and I don't know how to do that. She seems pretty honest and straight up to me, but my judgment on that doesn't mean a whole lot considering I have no prior experience to back it up with.

 

Regardless of the risks, I'm pretty sure that I really want to pursue this. Like I said, if I don't take risks, if I constantly fear and put no trust in people, I'll never have sex with anyone, and I'll never get anywhere. But my paranoia, and my tendency to constantly second guess myself still makes me uneasy.

[annie24]

Good luck whatever you choose. You can go to a sex shop and find dental dams if that is a concern. I bet you can buy them online and get them mailed too.

[Batya33]

"To be honest, I'm extremely paranoid and distrustful of people in general; if I submit to that mentality, then I'll NEVER have sex, though."

 

No, it's not about black/white thinking it's about balance. Having sex with a stranger is far more risky when it comes to STDs and pregnancy. There's always a risk in any sexual encounter, it's all a balance of risks/benefits.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, a woman in a relationship could very well lie about her STD status, too, and I've heard of that happening. I think you should just use as much protection as you possibly can. I know some people insist that a casual sex partner gets tested and show them the results (actually, I have only heard this online though, not from anyone I know in real life), but that seems really.. clinical.. to me. Someone might not go for that.

[Batya33]

Yeah, a woman in a relationship could very well lie about her STD status, too, and I've heard of that happening. I think you should just use as much protection as you possibly can. I know some people insist that a casual sex partner gets tested and show them the results (actually, I have only heard this online though, not from anyone I know in real life), but that seems really.. clinical.. to me. Someone might not go for that.

 

In my opinion a person who wouldn't "go for that" shouldn't be able to go for sex with the other person. Sure, it might be clinical to some (it shouldn't be, it simply should be par for the course) but I would think one's health is far more important.

Obviously a person in a relationship can lie too, it's just a lesser risk if you know the person well and there's emotional investment in the long term.

[MattW]

Obviously a person in a relationship can lie too, it's just a lesser risk if you know the person well and there's emotional investment in the long term.

 

I guess, but it's been established by now that this is not a possibility for me. Mutual attraction is not something I can find. And "emotional investment" is a bad idea for me; honestly, if I ever manage to find another girl I actually "like", the best thing I could possibly do is stay as far away from her as possible, because otherwise, I'll just go through a bunch of unnecessary heartache over someone that won't have any kind of attraction to me. What's the point?

[BrianH46]

With your personality, I highly doubt that you would be able to separate the emotional aspect from "no strings attached sex." You would just end up getting attached and start obsessing over this women as well.

[blueidealist24]

In my opinion a person who wouldn't "go for that" shouldn't be able to go for sex with the other person. Sure, it might be clinical to some (it shouldn't be, it simply should be par for the course) but I would think one's health is far more important.

Obviously a person in a relationship can lie too, it's just a lesser risk if you know the person well and there's emotional investment in the long term.

 

It seems like older people (like 30s and 40s) find the STD-testing thing more acceptable while younger people are like "OMG, really?" I guess it's because maybe older people have had bad experiences with finding out their partner wasn't honest.

[blueidealist24]

I guess, but it's been established by now that this is not a possibility for me. Mutual attraction is not something I can find. And "emotional investment" is a bad idea for me; honestly, if I ever manage to find another girl I actually "like", the best thing I could possibly do is stay as far away from her as possible, because otherwise, I'll just go through a bunch of unnecessary heartache over someone that won't have any kind of attraction to me. What's the point?

 

Even if you pursue casual sex, don't give up on finding a relationship. You don't need to stay as far away from a girl you like as possible. Just keep a middling distance, to show some interest but not become overwhelming.