Having second thoughts...

[Wonderstruck]

Ugh. First off, because I'm sick of hearing this, I have to clarify on this. I was 18, I was just out of high school, I was at one of my most depressed, "**** the world, I don't care about anything" points in life, and while I knew I had to get a job, I just didn't care. Yes, my mom was putting in applications for me, but it wasn't a case of me being "nagged" to get a job, I just didn't care. I didn't get my job begrudgingly, it just happened, and I rolled with it, and I've been rolling with it for the last five-ish years. That's literally all it was. Why you guys keep harping on that fact like I'm a lazy child, I don't understand. That was years ago, and it was due to the bad place I was in at the time. That's it.

 

Your mom putting in applications for you is even WORSE than you being "nagged" to get a job! You weren't making any effort on your own, so your mom had to apply for you! That IS being a lazy child and having your mommy take care of something for you. But I accept the fact that you were 18 years old and apparently heavily depressed, so we'll let that one go. Though the whole "I just rolled with it, and I've been rolling with it for the last five-ish years" is still concerning - don't you see how passive, lazy and indifferent that sounds? How non-assertive, "living in my comfort zone, never take a risk, just coast through life" that sounds?

 

As for career and ambition, again, that's not laziness, that's just been me not knowing what I want to do with my life. I tried a few different majors while at community college, and nothing stuck with me. I couldn't find anything that I felt like I could really do, I couldn't find anything that I really WANTED to do. But for you guys' information, I found a career direction at the beginning of this year that I'm very interested in and very hopeful to make a living out of it. Since then, I started attending a trade school for it, and I've been enjoying that experience quite a bit, and said school has helped me get a pretty solid internship right now, and I actually just had an interview yesterday for an even better internship at somewhere really cool. Don't assume that those aspects of my life haven't changed, just because you remember (or looked up) posts I made several months ago.

 

This is freaking awesome, and I'm proud of you and happy for you. But you can't fault us for not knowing that if you haven't mentioned it on the forum. Of course we're going to go by your previous posts unless you update us.

 

You think I don't want to move out of my parents' house? I pretty much despise my mother, and I've known for a while now that the first thing I want to do when I get a better paying job is find a place for me to live. But what am I supposed to do? I can only work part time (due to school and my internship), and I only qualify for low paying retail jobs. I can't afford to live on my own right now. I haven't been "refusing to apply for other jobs", but I don't have the qualifications for anything else. Best case scenario, I could apply to other retail stores, or something along those lines, but I wouldn't be making any more money than I am now. What kind of jobs am I supposed to be applying for, here?

 

GOOD. You sound frustrated and discontent with living at home, and that's a GOOD thing in this case. Someone your age is supposed to want to move out and be on their own. That will be a strong incentive to make it happen as soon as you can afford to.

 

And again, as far as the whole "ambition" and "independence" and "responsibility" stuff goes, again, I've found a career direction that I'm happy with, and while I'd love to move out, I just don't have the means to do it. But I take care of myself; I clean, I cook for myself, I keep myself organized, I pay my bills, and heck, I even pay a bunch of my parents' bills. So please don't talk to me like I'm some petulant little child that doesn't take care of myself, doesn't pay any bills, wants to live with mommy and daddy forever, and is content being a retail "lifer" with no future.

 

Wow, this is the most angry I have heard you sound, and I have to admit, I'm loving it. Why? Because anger is PASSION. Anger shows that you are fired up, that you aren't just mopey and defeated and thinking "Why bother? Nothing I do matters anyway. Womp womp." And I'm very surprised and happy to find out that a) you are more independent than I thought in a lot of facets in your life and b) you're not content to be a "retail lifer with no future".

 

I think you should stay in touch with that anger, not in an unhealthy way, but as a way to inspire positive change. A lot of people make major changes in their life when they get so fed up at the way things are that they can't take it for another second. They're just like "EFF THIS, I'M DONE LIVING LIKE THIS" and they just take the plunge and make some major changes to shake things up and make drastic improvements. And again, anger is passion, and passion is what you need. What you are now is defeated, passionless and despondent. You need to feel that strong emotion. It'll make you feel alive, and it may give you the strength and determination to make some huge changes in your life.

[blueidealist24]

I think people should stop talking about the job his Mom kind of got him. That was SIX years ago, so it's not really relevant to the here and now, is it? Also, the economy is horrible right now. A lot of people who don't want to be living with their parents are still living there because they can't get good enough jobs to move out comfortably (myself included, and I was actually known as an overachiever in school, although I do have some anxiety issues which have hindered my chances for quality employment a bit). While one can't deny that the OP does have issues with relationships, I think his retail/internship situation is fairly common for people of his age at this time.

 

As for the jumping through hoops thing, I don't really believe in that. I see that all the time on here but that's not what I see in real life. Sure, things like having a good career, a house, etc. do HELP with finding a relationship, it all comes down to looks and the way you relate to others in the end. If it was all about ticking off boxes for each achievement, then there wouldn't be unemployed, poor, practically deadbeat guys in relationships, and I definitely know some who are.

[Purusha]

The ideal is of course to be emotionally ready, psychologically sort and have your sh*t together before doing this, but the reality is that a lot of the time this just doesn't happen, and sometimes, it happens in reverse. Sometimes, we need the physical before the emotional and mental changes can happen - it's all interconnected and the energies don't only flow one way.

 

I know for me, I've had to sometimes make a less than ideal choice in order to move on from something and gain perspective, and I don't look upon those things now as a bad thing. Many people here have said that they barely think about the time they lost their virginity now, but it is something that happens and you move on, and the op surely needs to move on?!

 

This could be a good move for the OP because he'll be passed this hurdle that he sees in his head, it may change the way that he looks at women in terms of what he finds attractive, how accessible they are to him, and therefore affect his confidence.

 

I don't think it's fair to automatically assume that this is a bad option for him to take, when most of us have made choices that haven't been 'ideal' but they are a choice and they have their benefits and pay offs as well as their bad points, everything you experience has something to take from it.

 

Plus, many people who have replied here are women, and we do tend to be more emotional about sex than men and we will have a different slant on what he should be looking for. I think that we can all look back and think about how we would ideally have liked it to be, but it's a rare person that I've met that's had the ideal, and we're all here for life experience and learning so maybe this is just the ops turn.

 

I know it's an unpopular view, but I do think in this case if he gets the chance he should go for it.

[MattW]

Though the whole "I just rolled with it, and I've been rolling with it for the last five-ish years" is still concerning - don't you see how passive, lazy and indifferent that sounds? How non-assertive, "living in my comfort zone, never take a risk, just coast through life" that sounds?

 

Well, sure, but what am I supposed to do? Until I actually finish school and finish a few internships, I can't get a job that's better than what I'm doing now. If I'm going to be stuck working a crummy retail job, I'd rather be doing it in a place where I already know everyone, I already know the store, and I already know how everything works, yanno? I'm not happy that I've been working the same crummy job at the same blah store for the last five years (and will probably work at for at least another year), but what's the alternative? Find a crummy job somewhere else, doing the same crap, while having to relearn a bunch of stuff and get used to a new bunch of coworkers? At this point, if I'm going to pursue a new job, I want it to be something that will move me FORWARD, not keep me doing the same stuff while changing the scenery a little. And unfortunately, I still have a little bit of a ways to go before I can get there. So all I can really do is wait it out. Keep plugging away at school, doing what I can internship-wise, and hope for the best. Unless you (or someone else) has a better suggestion?

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to fly off the handle, or anything, I just didn't appreciate being talked to like I'm an immature, irresponsible little 18 year old kid. I realize I have social issues, and that sucks, I WANT to remedy those (but again, I don't know how), but for the most part, I feel like I'm doing the best I can with the rest of my life. I take care of myself, I pay my bills, I have an income (though not enough to afford to live on my own), I'm getting an education, I have some idea where I want to go career-wise, I like to think I'm relatively intelligent and mature for my age. Yet, none of that seems to have any bearing on meeting people, making friends, attracting a girl, etc. Like I said, I've known plenty of guys that were immature, that didn't have much of a direction in life, that got taken care of by mommy and daddy, and they still dated and had social lives just fine.

 

It's frustrating because it feels like the good qualities I do have don't actually count for anything. I can have all these qualities that others appreciate in a person (or at least, they say they appreciate in another person), but it's all meaningless because I have some issues that apparently push everyone away. That's why I get frustrated, because it always feels like, to me, no matter how "good" I am, I'm never quite "good enough" to actually have worthwhile people in my life.

[MattW]

You are not the only one who have had a rough childhood, in fact yours sound relatively nice compared to mine. The difference is I didn't blame the world and all of it's problems nor did I let it hinder my development as a person.

 

I mean, I'm not trying to make it out like my childhood was harder than anyone else's. I'm just trying to get the point accross that I never had any kind of "role model" figure to learn proper social skills from. When you don't have someone to teach you how to do those things, what are you supposed to do? My parents never imparted that kind of wisdom to me, because neither were ever social people, themselves. Who else am I supposed to learn from? My only sibling is an older half-sister that's been a constant train wreck for the last 20-ish years, and the rest of my family lives out of state and wants nothing to do with me simply because of my associated with my mom.

 

Social skills, to me, are something you need a hands-on experience with (or at the very least, that's how I absorb things), but when you don't have anyone to "teach" you this stuff, what do you do? Like I said, without having any friends, I don't know where people like to go, what people like to do, what's "good" and what's "not-so-good", I don't know anything about the local happenings, because I have no one to recommend things to me, no one to tell me "Hey, this place is supposed to be pretty cool", etc. Yeah, again, I could go drive around aimlessly and stop at some random place and just sit there for a while, but that's such a crapshoot way to try to meet people and find places to go. And yeah, you guys can say "Join groups/ clubs/ activities other people are involved with", and sure, that might actually get me out doing something around other people, but it won't necessarily help me make friends or date, because I don't seem to have the ability to actually "make friends" and get people to WANT me in their lives and WANT to be in my life. I could go do this stuff, but chances are, I'd just be the quiet guy that's just kinda "there", occasionally making a joke here and there, but otherwise just blending in with the background.

[Purusha]

I don't think where you are in terms of school or work is the problem as you sound like you're doing the best with what you have right now, but I do think that you could step it up socially (assuming you have time in your schedule). Do you go out with workmates? Do you socialise in any other way? Learning to make friends first will give you the first building blocks to knowing how to establish a relationship with someone, at least it'd be one step forward.

 

In my past I have been socially awkward, as many have, but you have to put yourself out there - people are the best things in life and what makes life interesting, fun, fulfilling, maybe you need to spend more time with people? That's how you become interesting and explore life a bit more, it doesn't mean you have to be doing exciting things every day, it just means spending time with people getting to know them, having a laugh, this will lead on to better things for you.

 

If you don't do anything, how do you expect anything to change?

[BrianH46]

My parents don't even speak English. Do you now how hard it is to make friends with not only a cultural but language barrier blocking you? Again the point is, we have had similar beginnings. I just took advice from articles on ask.men on how to be sociable, working out, attracting girls and started implementing them my freshman year of high school. It took until the end of sophomore year/ beginning of junior year before the advice started to pay off. I worked on my social skills, smile, and flirting every opportunity that came up for two whole years before I got my first girlfriend. I to this day still use the PUA advice that I learned from reading those ask.men articles some 8 years ago and hey those skills I picked up allowed me the experience of dating some very beautiful/smart girls through high school and University culminating in my amazing current gf. I fell in love a few times and got my heart broken a few times but each experiences has allowed me to grow as a person.

 

Originally I was as shy and introverted as they get, had I never practiced the advice I received from ask.men I would most likely still be that way today. Now as you can imagine, PUA techniques seem very pointless/impossible to a shy/introverted guy but I knew whatever it was that I was doing or not doing, it wasn't working. I wasn't happy. I'm glad I did invest the time because I could very well be in your shoes.

 

You already admitted that you do not know how to change for the better. Okay. Now where do we go from here? Keep doing what you are doing and hope for a different result? Or try implementing some of the "pointless" advice you have been given on here because even if you do not achieve your main goal, your life is still enriched by a new experience. Those experiences can allow you a new perspective. I mean think about it, here you are claiming ignorance when it comes to developing social skills yet you will refute any wisdom given to from experience by people who harbor goodwill. Here is an analogy from my future profession: If you were sick and a doctor told you what to do, would you argue with him about why it does not make sense?

 

And finally you're right, social skills are a hands on experience so get your hands in there!

[Wonderstruck]

Social skills, to me, are something you need a hands-on experience with (or at the very least, that's how I absorb things), but when you don't have anyone to "teach" you this stuff, what do you do? Like I said, without having any friends, I don't know where people like to go, what people like to do, what's "good" and what's "not-so-good", I don't know anything about the local happenings, because I have no one to recommend things to me, no one to tell me "Hey, this place is supposed to be pretty cool", etc. Yeah, again, I could go drive around aimlessly and stop at some random place and just sit there for a while, but that's such a crapshoot way to try to meet people and find places to go.

 

It's just shocking to me that you've been living in the same town/city for a long time, possibly all of your life, and you can't even think of ONE restaurant that would be appropriate to take a girl for a lunch date. That has nothing to do with having a circle of friends, and everything to do with actually leaving your house once in a while. I guess you and your family have never gone out for dinner, EVER?! I mean, are you telling me that you don't even know what reasonably priced family restaurants exist in your town/city? It's not about driving around and stopping at random places by yourself. It's just about actually having a basic knowledge of your town/city outside of school, work and your house. That's not too much to ask, no matter how socially awkward and friendless you are.

 

And yeah, you guys can say "Join groups/ clubs/ activities other people are involved with", and sure, that might actually get me out doing something around other people, but it won't necessarily help me make friends or date, because I don't seem to have the ability to actually "make friends" and get people to WANT me in their lives and WANT to be in my life. I could go do this stuff, but chances are, I'd just be the quiet guy that's just kinda "there", occasionally making a joke here and there, but otherwise just blending in with the background.

 

Honestly, you had me impressed for a second in your last message when you sounded angry, passionate and fired up, but now you're right back to sounding defeated and making excuses. You don't KNOW that joining a group, club or social activity won't help you make friends or find a girl to date. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Since you don't know for sure either way, the logical thing to do would be to GIVE IT A SHOT and SEE WHAT HAPPENS. Not to talk yourself out of it before you've even tried, because you're using your whole defeatist "Well, it probably won't work anyway, so what's the point?" mentality. Has that mentality been working for you so far? Not whatsoever. So why don't you try something different, CHANGE THINGS UP, and take a risk?

 

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my earlier post when I said "Take chances. Take risks. Fall flat on your face. Then get back up and try again. That's what life IS." You won't know for sure if you never try, and assuming the worst-case scenario only guarantees that you will stay stuck inside your boring, lonely depressing rut. "But what if it doesn't work out?" "Ahh, but what if it DOES?" And if you do try and it doesn't work out, you won't be any worse off than you are now, so why don't you just give it a shot? Like Brian said, stop with the "I don't see the point" excuse, because the point is to experience life itself.

 

Honestly, I have no idea what you're even looking for anymore on this forum. You've admitted several times that you don't retain anything unless it's a conclusion that you've arrived at on your own. So, if that's the case, you're admitting that we're all just wasting our time discussing your issues with you, because unless you reach the conclusion on your own, our advice and encouragement will just bounce off of you like Teflon. And so far, that seems to be the case. Have you taken even ONE suggestion or piece of advice given on this forum? Has your way of thinking changed AT ALL? If not, then what's the point? We're not here just to listen to you say the same things over and over and feel sorry for yourself.

 

Much like Batya and Capricorn 3, I will probably have to bow out as well. Knowing that no matter what anyone says, you will come up with some excuse to avoid doing it, or why it wouldn't work for you, is beyond frustrating and proof positive that it's a waste of my time.

 

That being said, I do wish you the best of luck. I think you have a lot of potential, but your resistance to change and leaving your comfort zone will hinder you forever until YOU decide that you've had enough and take the plunge and start making serious changes.

[MattW]

It's just shocking to me that you've been living in the same town/city for a long time, possibly all of your life, and you can't even think of ONE restaurant that would be appropriate to take a girl for a lunch date. That has nothing to do with having a circle of friends, and everything to do with actually leaving your house once in a while. I guess you and your family have never gone out for dinner, EVER?! I mean, are you telling me that you don't even know what reasonably priced family restaurants exist in your town/city? It's not about driving around and stopping at random places by yourself. It's just about actually having a basic knowledge of your town/city outside of school, work and your house. That's not too much to ask, no matter how socially awkward and friendless you are.

 

Well, no, my family never went out anywhere. Like I said, my parents have always been complete homebodies. Going out anywhere was super uncommon. Only times we ever went anywhere were when my one aunt would come in to visit, but that was a one a year kind of thing for maybe three years at most. Heck, I hadn't been to a movie theater since my dad took me almost twice years ago. A couple months ago, I went to see a movie by myself, and it just felt... awkward.

 

I dunno. I mean, when I don't have friends or family to go out with, and going out and driving around aimlessly seems like a dumb idea, how am I supposed to know what's what?

 

I wasn't trying to sound "defeated", but I know how I am. I've been placed into new groups many times in the past, coworkers, classmates, etc., and it always works out the same way. I try to be myself, I try to be likable, I try to make friends and make connections with people, but I always just end up being the guy that's just "there", the guy that people don't DISlike, but just the guy that no one really cares or thinks much about. Most often, there's usually one or more other guys in any group I end up in that are clearly the most charismatic and most likable, the most "attractive", and I haven't been able to compete with those guys. They're the ones that get attention, they're the ones that get included in everything, they're the ones that the girls flirt with, etc. Again, I'm not trying to sound "defeated", I'm just stating facts about my past experiences with people.

[Purusha]

Matt, it looks like you've exhausted pretty much everyone!! It sounds very much to me like you're the guy who sits on the sidelines, waiting for people to initiate, you might make a half hearted attempt, but never beyond that and never consistently, and then you complain that you're not given as much attention.

 

Your past only indicates your future when you continue doing what you've already done. Have you tried reading any self help books about socialising with people? They can give you solid advice and techniques that you can readily put into practice. Many of us don't have in-built skills to socialise, and these often have to be learned, but how you move on is by learning and application so maybe that's a place for you to start.

[annie24]

I'm surprised this thread is still going!! To me, it's pretty simple. Meet her, have some coffee or a meal, decide if you feel comfortable enough with her to be more intimate. you don't have to have sex right away, as others suggested. you can even have a make out session and see how you feel about it and her. I don't think anything has to be all or nothing here!

[MattW]

Matt, it looks like you've exhausted pretty much everyone!! It sounds very much to me like you're the guy who sits on the sidelines, waiting for people to initiate, you might make a half hearted attempt, but never beyond that and never consistently, and then you complain that you're not given as much attention.

 

Well, I mean, I do what I can. Being introverted makes it difficult enough, but when you pile on all my other social issues, I just struggle with actually meeting and bonding with people. I say this time and time again, and I'll say it again; I know you guys get frustrated with me, but you guys have to understand that I'm just as frustrated (if not more so) with myself as you guys get with me. I have to deal with me, too, and I have to deal with me a heck of a lot more than you guys have to deal with me.

 

Your past only indicates your future when you continue doing what you've already done. Have you tried reading any self help books about socialising with people? They can give you solid advice and techniques that you can readily put into practice.

 

I've picked up a couple of "self help" books, but I've never been a huge reader, and I tend to not absorb large amounts of reading. I keep telling myself "Eh, eventually I'll go back and read through these books past the first couple of chapters", but I just never end up doing it.

 

Going in a different direction, I have to say, you guys may perceive me as having a "defeated" attitude, but to be honest, that's actually covering up a lot of anger. I realized today that deep down, I carry a lot of anger about the last girl I wanted to actually date. I don't direct that anger at her; rather, I direct it at the guys she seems to fancy. The way she talks to them, the way she jokes with them, the flirty way she acts with them, the way she hangs on them, even just the way she looks at them. She used to do all those things to me briefly just before I asked her out. For a brief second, I got to know what it was like to be those guys, and I loved that. But now I'm just on the outside looking in.

 

It makes me angry that I can't be those guys. It makes me angry that I can't get a girl like her to look at me that way, talk to me that way, flirt with me that way, hang around me that way. I'm so unbelievably jealous of those guys. I want so badly to have what those guys have. I want it so badly, and it makes me angry that I can't. I don't get to know what it's like to be "that guy". I don't get to be the guy that finds an awesome girl and actually gets to attract her; I'm the guy that finds an awesome girl and has to sit by and watch as she gets all googly-eyed over other guys.

 

That resentment, that jealousy, that anger is so strong that it makes me uncomfortable sometimes. I just can't get past it. I hate those guys. I hate guys like them. I hate guys in general, because they're all just competition, competition I'll never be able to compete against. I want to be "that guy" for an awesome girl so badly, and it makes me angry as all hell to know that I can't. So, if I come off as being "defeatist", that's just me trying to do what I can to diffuse the anger I feel.

[blueidealist24]

Maybe you should actually read those books, see if they do some good.. I think that is what is making people suggest that you have a defeatist attitude.. while this doesn't apply to everything you do, quite often you say you're going to do something and then don't follow through or get around to it.

[MattW]

Well, yeah, but I know myself well enough to know what I will and won't do. The only reason I've been "putting off" finishing any of these books is because I tend to not absorb things from books too well. Even through school and college, I hated having to read chapters from a text book, because none of it would ever really sink in and stick with me when it came time for testing or whatever. So, yeah, I just feel like the same would happen with these books; I'd force myself to read through them, but I wouldn't actually "absorb" any of it and implement it into my life. Does that make sense?

[Purusha]

It makes sense, but it sounds like your life has become a nice cosy cave, where you have no stimulation in terms of your physical, mental or emotional world to actually give you the motivation to make you change things. It's become much too comfortable to stay in the cave where you don't have to stretch yourself, you don't need to do anything, and you can just sit there and complain that the world doesn't arrive at your door.

 

The world doesn't work like that, nothing will come knocking at your door unless you actually do something. That may involve purposefully making your life harder to put yourself in a situation where you do have to do something.

 

Why don't you have motivation? Because you don't have to have it, you have a roof over your head, food to eat, a bearable life, and porn to jack off to, and everything outside or greater than any of that is an effort so why bother?

 

One thing I would say is that there's nothing like dire straits to make someone move their a$$ - move out (a shared house, you don't have to live on your own as for many it's unaffordable). At the moment you're at home where everything's there for you - you don't have to speak to anyone or do anything or interact or take part in the world to get your basic needs dealt with, if you take yourself away from that you will find that you will have to talk to other people, form friendships and alliances, make yourself uncomfortable.

 

Until you're at a point where you have to, and it means something tangible to you, I don't see you having the motivation to do anything about it.

[penelope13]

well, if you are having difficult to absorb things the first time - you simply read things again and again till you have learned what you set out to. is it fun? not really, but if you are motivated properly you will do what needs to be done to accomplish your goals.

[MattW]

See, I'm stubborn in the sense that I HAVE to be right about myself. If I come to the conclusion that I'm going to live and die completely alone, I HAVE to force myself in that direction, because I HAVE to be right about myself.

 

That's probably why there's always so much friction between me and you guys, because the part of me that wants to get better and have a happier life is trying to reach out, but at the same time, I'm so set in my ways that I can't really accept what anyone else says, because that goes against the conclusion I've come to (that I'm doomed to a sad lonely life), which would mean I'd be wrong.

 

That said, that's also why I'm resistant to therapy and self-help books. Why should I waste money just to argue with a therapist? Why should I bother reading self-help books when I know I'll just put it down and say "Eh, they don't know me, I know me"? I don't mean to bother you guys and argue, and all that; like I said, there's a part of me that does want to be better, and that part keeps trying to reach out, but it always gets shut down in the end by the stubborn side of me that is determined to be right about me living out a sad lonely life.

[penelope13]

and how is that working for you?

[Purusha]

Well, yes, it's easier to be right, because then you don't have to do anything, right?

 

Don't mistake it for stubbornness - it's weakness because you want to stay comfortable. Hell, we've all been there, but then don't expect anything to change for you.

 

The thing is, I think you're mistaking 'the way you behave' for 'who you are'. Your behaviour is not your personality, you can change the way that you think about something any time that you want, you can change the way you approach something any time that you want. It's not you that then changes, it's your perspective.

 

For example, you don't choose to not read a book because 'that's just who you are' - you've decided your approach will be not to learn, not to embrace something new, not to try something on for size, not to explore, you have chosen to be defeated before you've even begun. This doesn't express who you are, this is your attitude.

 

Life is often about trying something on for size, seeing how it fits, and if it doesn't, trying something else. If you have an all or nothing attitude most of life will look terrifying, but it is a false premise.

 

People change at so many stages of their lives, you'll want something different in 5 years time, you'll have different dreams and ambitions, you might like to wear something different, changed your hair, whatever - life is fluid and learning to go with it is a really good thing, but to do that you do have to actually be moving somewhere for this to happen, otherwise life just flows around you like you're a rock and it's the water, whilst others surf downstream.

[MattW]

To be fair, though, I have been trying things, especially over the last year or so, I've been trying harder than ever. I've been trying hard for the longest time to reach out to some acquaintances to build up better friendships with them and actually become friends with them, and be socially active with them, and go out and do things with them, but I just haven't been able to get in with anyone. Over the last year, I've gone out with people three times, one of which was my birthday (so they were kind of obligated to say yes to coming). Any other time I try to reach out to people, I just get indifferent responses, or I get blown off, etc. I've been trying to say "Hey, we should go here" or "We should go do this", I've been making it known that I'd like to do stuff with them if they know of something, and it just never amounts to anything.

 

As for dating, since I'm not actually getting out much, I turned to online dating a long time ago. In the last year or so, I've attempted to contact and get something going with roughly 100 women on these sites (and when I started looking for casual sex online, you can add on another 50+ women to that number), and not one of those amounted to an actual date, or meetup, or anything. Most never responded to me at all, and the ones that did only chatted with me for a little while then disappeared. There have been a handful of instances where I almost got something going with someone (case in point, this last woman I was supposed to hook up with), only for them to back out at the last minute.

 

So it's not like I haven't been doing anything at all. I've been putting time and energy into trying to build up a social circle for myself, and go out on some innocent dates, but I just can't make it happen for myself. It just never works for me.

 

I don't know about any of this "who you are" vs "how you behave" stuff. I won't argue that, because that's not necessarily what I'm saying. I fully recognize that I've fallen into many bad habits, socially, but my problem is more that these bad habits are all I know. I don't know how to be different, I don't know how to get away from my bad habits, I don't know how to replace them with good habits, I don't know how to be a more social person, I don't know how to be a more "attractive" person. All I know is what I've known my entire life -- how to be a lonely person that's alienated from the rest of the world.

[penelope13]

so if you want to learn new things/ new behaviors you can either learn by yourself (books etc), or with the help from others, or with a therapist.

 

you have choices

[Purusha]

Yes, but if something isn't working for you - you try something else !! If they are work colleagues that you just can't gel with, you take a class you might be interested in and see if there's anyone there that you click with, you join a club with people of similar interests, whatever it takes. There are not always going to be people in your immediate environment that you will click with. Not everyone gets on with everyone, that's just life and it's the same for every human on the planet. And I have to say, 3 times is really not enough - I've moved areas where I haven't known anyone about 4 times in my life and I've had to initiate far more than that to get to know people, it's just what you have to do if you don't want to be a hermit.

 

What you have to remember is that if you're socially isolated, and you're trying to socialise with those that aren't, you are the one that has to make the effort because they don't have to and so they won't make as much of an effort.

 

Online dating - to be honest I don't really go in for all of that and I don't see it doing much good for your confidence so I won't chime in on that one.

 

Effectively, you haven't done nothing, but you haven't by a long shot done enough.

 

I beg to differ that you don't know what to do, I think you just lack confidence to do it and so you don't. You've been given lots of really good advice in this uber-long thread of ways to connect and socialise, I suggest you go back and read it.

[MattW]

so if you want to learn new things/ new behaviors you can either learn by yourself (books etc), or with the help from others, or with a therapist.

 

you have choices

 

Wouldn't I just end up arguing with a therapist, though? What if I'm too stubborn for a therapist to do anything for? I don't want to pay all that money just to stubbornly argue with someone, or disregard what they say. But if I do that to you guys, chances are, I'd do it with a therapist, as well. It wouldn't make any difference to me.

 

And I have to say, 3 times is really not enough - I've moved areas where I haven't known anyone about 4 times in my life and I've had to initiate far more than that to get to know people, it's just what you have to do if you don't want to be a hermit.

 

No, I think you misunderstood. I've tried WAY more times to get people to hang out with me, and out of all those attempts, only three were successful (though they invited me to two of those). Again, I tried to be active toward them, I tried to say "Hey, let's go do this" or "Let's go here", etc. I did this a lot with plenty of acquaintances, and nothing ever came of it, except those three times.

 

I beg to differ that you don't know what to do, I think you just lack confidence to do it and so you don't. You've been given lots of really good advice in this uber-long thread of ways to connect and socialise, I suggest you go back and read it.

 

I dunno. I still maintain that I just don't "understand" any of it. As someone who's never had even the slightest social inclinations, all of this stuff might as well be a foreign language to me. It shouldn't be, but for me, it is.

[Purusha]

Ahh I see, well, I've had that happen, many people have - key is to move on because it ain't happening and to try somewhere else. If they're not wanting to connect with you there's not much you can do and you probably wouldn't get on anyway, so overall it's not a big loss.

 

You might argue with a therapist, you might like them, you might fancy them, you might kill them, there are lots of 'mights' in this world but that's where you go find out.

 

You don't really have to understand it, you just have to go do it - sometimes doing stuff comes before understanding stuff.

[penelope13]

your choice is to stop being stubborn if you want to be happy.