When sadness turns to anger and bitterness...

[MattW]

I left here a month or two ago to try to work through my issues on my own. I've spent a long time feeling sad and depressed over my inability to connect with people, have a social life, have friends, and particularly, to date. But I've reached a point where those feelings have turned from sadness and depression to anger and bitterness. I'm not "sad" anymore, I'm just angry, angry about all of it.

 

I'm angry that people ditch me and blow me off when I try to make friends with them. I'm angry that I can't find a girl I connect with. I'm angry that, on the rare occasion I do find a girl I hit it off with, she'd rather date the typical charismatic "cool guy". I'm angry that the last girl I was super into rejected me and went on to date this jerk that I hated long before they were ever even an item. I'm angry that, even while trying to distance myself from her, she constantly inadvertently does things that remind me of why I fell for her in the first place.

 

I'm angry because my perception of dating has changed; I'm starting to see that guys like me don't have options, guys like me don't get the benefit of finding someone I like and get along with well and having a nice happy relationship with them. No, only guys that are "hot" and/ or "charismatic" get to find a girl they really want to be with. Guys like me have to take what we can get and settle for someone we can tolerate enough to stay with. I'm angry at that notion; I don't want to "take what I can get" and be with someone I "tolerate".

 

I'm just... mad, about all of it. I'm mad, and I hate feeling this way. I don't want to be "angry" and "bitter" any more than I wanted to be "sad" and "depressed", but now I've just gone over the edge, and I don't know what to do about that.

[Capricorn3]

Hi, welcome back. I'm sorry to hear you are still feeling bad about everything. During the months away from here, did you finally look into therapy/counselling (which has been strongly advised by almost all members in all of your threads)? If not, WHY not? It seems your only real option if you ever want to get out of the situation you find yourself in.

[MattW]

No, I haven't, and as for why, I don't really know. It may partially be because I found a new education/ career opportunity that I'm very interested in, and have been pouring a lot of my energy into pursuing that and making sure I stay on track with it. I guess the rest of the reasoning is probably because I'm fed up and stubborn. I don't feel I should need help to work out my issues. I feel I should be able to do it myself, on my own, and the fact that I'm having so much trouble doing that is another thing I'm angry about.

[Allipie]

Everyone needs help to work out issues at some point in their life. Ive gone to counseling, i take meds. Its not bad at all and actually saved my life.

Dont worry about girls right now...focus on YOU.

[iamkaylee]

Welcome back Matt. At some point in life (a lot actually) we all need help of some kind. I know you feel like you should be able to work through your issues on your own, and that's really common. But that said, it's awful hard to work on something when we don't have what we need to do it with. You wouldn't rip the transmission out of your car if you didn't know what you were doing and didn't have the right tools in the box would you? Look at therapy the wame way. They're not there to "fix" you, they're there to teach you the skills you needs in order to work on yourself. Part of your anger might be from frustration because what you're doing now isn't really working.

[MattW]

I guess. I dunno. I just have too much pride, I guess. I want to be able to take care of myself, and my own problems, without the need of help from anyone. I don't want therapy to become a "crutch" for myself. I don't want to find myself having to run off to a therapist every time something goes wrong. I really don't want (professional) help. I just want myself to be able to do it on my own.

 

Dont worry about girls right now...focus on YOU.

 

Eh. I've been "focusing on me" for several years, now. I'm tired of "focusing on me".

[Capricorn3]

I want to be able to take care of myself, and my own problems, without the need of help from anyone. I really don't want (professional) help. I just want myself to be able to do it on my own..

Doing it on your own clearly hasn't worked and isn't working. Not even a tiny bit. Do you want this to continue for the rest of your life "without any help"? Where has it got you so far? Seriously?

[Blue Spiral]

MattW, what you're going through is pretty common for guys. I found out about my own "lack of options" when I was around your age. I discovered that I couldn't pull off relationships with the types of girls I wanted, while I could have them with girls I wasn't interested in all that much (mainly because their options were limited as well). I settled (yes, ugh, "settled") for being FWBs with the types of girls I wanted, instead. Getting out of the relationship game greatly helped me with my anger and depression. Sitting there with a girl that I wasn't attracted to, and thinking "This is it?"...it made a mockery of the whole thing. We all have hopes and dreams for our relationships, and seeing the reality (for someone at my level, at least) made me feel horrible. So I chose to take myself out of that situation.

 

The key is to keep it from consuming/defining your life. There's more to life than women (or other people at all, for that matter), and it's possible to enjoy things while knowing that you aren't living your ideal life. Good luck.

[Batya33]

Every time you feel angry, think of three things you're grateful for (however small or large) and then do something to work out the negative energy -running, dancing (yes, dancing alone in your room to your favorite dance music), or anything physical that will get out the negative energy.

[MattW]

Doing it on your own clearly hasn't worked and isn't working. Not even a tiny bit. Do you want this to continue for the rest of your life "without any help"? Where has it got you so far? Seriously?

 

I dunno. I just can't seem to put my pride aside. I just want to be completely self-reliant that way. Like I said, I feel like if I give in to therapy, I'm going to end up using it as a crutch every time something bad happens in my life, and I don't want that.

 

The key is to keep it from consuming/defining your life. There's more to life than women (or other people at all, for that matter), and it's possible to enjoy things while knowing that you aren't living your ideal life. Good luck.

 

I see what you're saying, but it's just hard when finding someone special to spend your life with has always been such a "dream" goal for the future. I wouldn't say that that desire "consumes" or "defines" my life, but it's been maybe the biggest thing I'd always hoped I'd get out of life. It's hard to truly accept that no matter how badly you want it, it's just not in the cards for you, not now, not ever. It's hard to constantly be around people that date and fall in love, and settle down and get married, and have families and have lives with their families, it's hard to occasionally find a girl I actually connect with, only to get rejected by her and have to sit by while she dates some idiot instead of you.

 

If I could make all these feelings go away, I absolutely would. I wish that I could completely shut down the part of my brain that wants someone in my life. But no matter how much I try to "take myself out of the game", that part of me is still in there, reminding me that I'm lonely, that I wish I had someone special to share my life with.

[Batya33]

"I dunno. I just can't seem to put my pride aside. I just want to be completely self-reliant that way. Like I said, I feel like if I give in to therapy, I'm going to end up using it as a crutch every time something bad happens in my life, and I don't want that."

 

You're proud that you don't have to ask a professional for advice? What kind of accomplishment is that? Obviously you know your "pride" won't keep you warm at night. And then don't date anyone who ever consulted a professional for advice because you won't respect that person, right? My sense is it has nothing to do with pride, it's just easier not to ask for help because then you can have the pity party. A good therapist won't allow you to do that.

 

I think it's great that your goal is to meet a woman who you marry and have a family with. Don't let go of that dream. But don't let go either of your willingness to do the work towards that goal. I'm an example of where that work really paid off -many years later, but it did. I hope it happens sooner for you but if not, believe me it's worth the work. And part of the work is doing whatever you can not to react to the bitterness or cynical feelings for more than fleeting moments. If I had indulged as you seem to be doing I wouldn't be getting to wipe off my son's almond-butter-smeared face and listening to Cat in The Hat. Oh and hearing him say "I love Mommy and Daddy the best". Keep that kind of stuff more on your radar, the woe is me less so. You'll get there.

[MattW]

You're proud that you don't have to ask a professional for advice? What kind of accomplishment is that? Obviously you know your "pride" won't keep you warm at night. And then don't date anyone who ever consulted a professional for advice because you won't respect that person, right? My sense is it has nothing to do with pride, it's just easier not to ask for help because then you can have the pity party. A good therapist won't allow you to do that.

 

I'm not saying I'm "proud" of myself for being the way I am, I'm just saying I want to be completely self-reliant, and I have too much pride to admit that I may not be able to do that. I'm not saying I wouldn't have respect for anyone that's gotten professional help. That's silly. I'm personally just too stupidly stubborn to admit that I may need help. I don't care what other people or how they live their lives; I want to be in complete control of me and my life, and my mind, I want to be self-reliant and I want to solve all of my own problems without needing a professional. I freely admit that this is probably kinda stupid of me, and again, that I'm very stubborn this way.

 

I think it's great that your goal is to meet a woman who you marry and have a family with. Don't let go of that dream.

 

But it's never going to happen. I have no doubt in my mind about that fact. Regardless of how much I may want it, I firmly believe I will never have it. Zero doubts about that.

[Capricorn3]

I'm personally just too stupidly stubborn to admit that I may need help. I want to be in complete control of me and my life, and my mind, I want to be self-reliant and I want to solve all of my own problems without needing a professional. I freely admit that this is probably kinda stupid of me, and again, that I'm very stubborn this way.

^ This is the entire crux of the matter. THIS is, and will be your downfall. This is pretty much what people have been telling you since the very beginning (you being stubborn and finding endless excuses as to why you won't seek help). Finally you have admitted it. Of course, I do hope you realise this means you'll lead a very lonely life - for the rest of your life - and all of it being due to you being too stubborn to get help. Is it really worth it? If you are already so miserable, unhappy and lonely, can you imagine this life for the next 40-50 years? I can only assume things are not that bad for you if you are prepared to carry on as you are.

 

That said, I can see this thread going the same way as all your past threads have gone - endless very helpful responses to you, all of which you ignore and the same things get repeated over and over again for months and months which made many people eventually give up on you. I think it best I step out at this point and (once again) all I can do is wish you good luck.

[Blue Spiral]

I see what you're saying, but it's just hard when finding someone special to spend your life with has always been such a "dream" goal for the future. I wouldn't say that that desire "consumes" or "defines" my life, but it's been maybe the biggest thing I'd always hoped I'd get out of life. It's hard to truly accept that no matter how badly you want it, it's just not in the cards for you, not now, not ever. It's hard to constantly be around people that date and fall in love, and settle down and get married, and have families and have lives with their families, it's hard to occasionally find a girl I actually connect with, only to get rejected by her and have to sit by while she dates some idiot instead of you.

 

Finding someone I was truly compatible with was a big hope of mine, as well. But it didn't happen.

 

For the record, I don't know that therapy will help you. Your depression seems more situational than anything, and therapy isn't going to change what women are generally attracted to. It's perfectly reasonable for someone in your situation to feel frustrated and angry. Likewise, I'm not seeing how this is your fault. Unless you feel that some complex psychological issue is holding you back, I wouldn't bother with therapy.

[Batya33]

The successful self-reliant people I know know themselves well enough to know when to ask for help. You're not in control of your life just because you don't seek out help or advice. In fact I think the opposite is true.

 

If you have zero doubts then you'd be at peace with your decision. But you're not, you're indulging in anger and bitterness. Which is probably because you are trying to convince yourself it's never going to happen -the easy way out. You're made of stronger stuff than that, right?

[MattW]

Of course, I do hope you realise this means you'll lead a very lonely life - for the rest of your life - and all of it being due to you being too stubborn to get help. Is it really worth it? If you are already so miserable, unhappy and lonely, can you imagine this life for the next 40-50 years? I can only assume things are not that bad for you if you are prepared to carry on as you are.

 

I do realize that, and I have thought a lot about how awful the next 40-50 years are going to be. In a way, I feel like I'm just waiting for death, at this point, and I have that 40-50 year period to wait, yet. Honestly, I think in another 5-10 years, I just might hit the point where I decide I no longer want to live, period. Really, I almost feel that way now, but there's just a couple unrelated things I'm hanging on for just to see how they play out.

 

Let's be honest. Even if I do go to therapy, they're not going to be able to help me stop being lonely and wishing I could have someone in my life. That's a desire I think I'll always carry on with me, and that's where so much of my grief comes from, from my inability to actually have someone in my life. Maybe therapy would help some aspects of my life a little, but it's not going to change the fact that I'll always be alone for the rest of my life, and that fact will always make me unhappy, therapy or not.

 

Besides, how do you even stop yourself from being stubborn? Is there even a proper way to answer that question, other than "Just stop!"? I don't like being "stubborn", but in my mind, I've convinced myself that I HAVE to keep myself together, I HAVE to take care of myself, I HAVE to deal with my problems myself, I HAVE to be completely 100% responsible for the things that go through my head. I don't know how to be anything else but stubborn.

 

Finding someone I was truly compatible with was a big hope of mine, as well. But it didn't happen.

 

For the record, I don't know that therapy will help you. Your depression seems more situational than anything, and therapy isn't going to change what women are generally attracted to. It's perfectly reasonable for someone in your situation to feel frustrated and angry. Likewise, I'm not seeing how this is your fault. Unless you feel that some complex psychological issue is holding you back, I wouldn't bother with therapy.

 

Exactly; therapy isn't going to change the fact that there's no one out there for me, and I can't imagine a therapist could help me to truly stop having that desire for human companionship. And as long as I have that desire, I'm going to lament over it, because I can't have it.

 

I KNOW I'll never have friends. I KNOW I'll never date. I KNOW I'll never find a girl I like that likes me back, who I'll be happy with. So what could therapy really do for me?

[itsallgrand]

Besides, how do you even stop yourself from being stubborn? Is there even a proper way to answer that question, other than "Just stop!"? I don't like being "stubborn", but in my mind, I've convinced myself that I HAVE to keep myself together, I HAVE to take care of myself, I HAVE to deal with my problems myself, I HAVE to be completely 100% responsible for the things that go through my head. I don't know how to be anything else but stubborn.

 

 

Only speaking to this, because it is something I can relate to and I can also be a stubborn goat. Also, it was something which was addressed when I did go to therapy (CBT specifically aimed at PTSD and my issues around that, yet it is still relevant). It was addressed after years and years of my thinking the exact same thing as you "I HAVE to take care of myself, I HAVE to keep myself together, I HAVE to ...ad infinity!!!

 

That very thought process and beliefs behind them, the core ones, are something a therapist CAN help you challenge.

 

The essence of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is : change your thoughts and you change your feelings.

 

Try this concept in even a simple way...it works. But I will bet dollars to donuts you will have lots of resistance to challenging your thoughts to even test it!

 

CBT actually even specifically addresses this kind of thinking as a block to movement. And if you look at the reality here, you are remaining stagnant because of a resistance to even try anything new with your thinking. The only way to get juices flowing again is to challenge it.

 

I like CBT because it doesn't ask you to "forget about everything, just be happy!". It works with reality and what you know. It asks you to constantly look at things in terms of what you know and facts. It's pretty ruthless actually.

 

Here is the thing...

 

I got desperate enough to try it. Maybe you need to get really desperate to even honestly consider it. Realistically, what have you got to lose? If you are convinced nothing will change if you don't, then by doing it, it can't stop that from happening anyways right? SO what excuse do you have not to do it?

 

Without even having to see a therapist you can pick up a copy of David Burns: Feeling Good and start.

[Blue Spiral]

I KNOW I'll never have friends. I KNOW I'll never date. I KNOW I'll never find a girl I like that likes me back, who I'll be happy with. So what could therapy really do for me?

 

Now, come on, that's just ridiculous. Unless you're psychic, you don't know those things. There's no need to be that negative. I think therapy is overrated for men in our situation, but that's another issue. The truth is, it's our own job to make ourselves happy, we can't expect someone else to do it for us. Even if you found the best girl in the world tomorrow, and she wanted to be with you, expecting her to give you meaning and happiness would ruin the relationship. It's not fair to put that kind of "validate me" pressure on someone else, let alone on the one person you care about.

 

Don't get distracted by (admittedly understandable) despondency. Focus on making yourself happy, and hope that you can find someone that you connect with, but don't hinge your happiness on it.

[MattW]

Now, come on, that's just ridiculous. Unless you're psychic, you don't know those things. There's no need to be that negative.

 

Nah, but I just know. I can feel it.

 

The truth is, it's our own job to make ourselves happy, we can't expect someone else to do it for us. Even if you found the best girl in the world tomorrow, and she wanted to be with you, expecting her to give you meaning and happiness would ruin the relationship. It's not fair to put that kind of "validate me" pressure on someone else, let alone on the one person you care about.

 

Don't get distracted by (admittedly understandable) despondency. Focus on making yourself happy, and hope that you can find someone that you connect with, but don't hinge your happiness on it.

 

I'm not "hinging my happiness on it" or looking for someone else to "give me meaning", though. I'm relatively satisfied with the other aspects of my life, and I'm not looking for someone to completely revolve my life around.

[MattW]

Doing some more pondering, I've been thinking, what could a therapist do for me, anyway? "Teach me how to like myself"? Pft. I don't think that's the problem. No, actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person that does actually like me and think I'm worth anything.

 

I don't hate myself, rather, I'm starting more and more to hate the world around me. I'm sick of "not being good enough", especially in comparison to guys I know I'm better/ more qualified than.

 

When it comes to girls, even the ones that are smart, mature, and down to earth (aka the ones I actually have anything in common with) are more attracted to idiots and jerks. And that's frustrating. If that's the way the world works (and that's how it's always been in my experience), there's just nothing out there for a guy like me, and that just infuriates me.

[Batya33]

Doing some more pondering, I've been thinking, what could a therapist do for me, anyway? "Teach me how to like myself"? Pft. I don't think that's the problem. No, actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person that does actually like me and think I'm worth anything.

 

I don't hate myself, rather, I'm starting more and more to hate the world around me. I'm sick of "not being good enough", especially in comparison to guys I know I'm better/ more qualified than.

 

When it comes to girls, even the ones that are smart, mature, and down to earth (aka the ones I actually have anything in common with) are more attracted to idiots and jerks. And that's frustrating. If that's the way the world works (and that's how it's always been in my experience), there's just nothing out there for a guy like me, and that just infuriates me.

 

If you liked yourself you would want what's best for you. Living with anger and negativity by definition isn't what's best for you. Would you tell your best friend to cop out with "well that's just the way the world works?" Please don't give in to the tired old cliches about "nice guys finish last" and "women only like bad boys" -that's not smart or mature (and I know that you're intelligent and mature -I'm just referring to that part of your attitude). And of course it often has nothing to do with "better" - it's just that some people make good matches together and some don't -nothing to do with "better" or "more qualified".

So, start to think about what's in your best interest -from a mental, emotional and physical health perspective. Act in your own best interest by finding a way to get rid of all the negativity and anger. Then you'll start liking yourself again.

[MattW]

If you liked yourself you would want what's best for you. Living with anger and negativity by definition isn't what's best for you. Would you tell your best friend to cop out with "well that's just the way the world works?"

 

If I had friends, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation at all. That's sort of the crux of the issue. I feel like people see me as "not good enough" to have in their lives (for friendship or otherwise), and that makes me mad because I know I'm good enough, I know I deserve better, and I know I deserve to be happy.

 

Please don't give in to the tired old cliches about "nice guys finish last" and "women only like bad boys" -that's not smart or mature (and I know that you're intelligent and mature -I'm just referring to that part of your attitude). And of course it often has nothing to do with "better" - it's just that some people make good matches together and some don't -nothing to do with "better" or "more qualified".

 

Yeah, I know, I hate that I'm going in that "cliched" direction, but I feel like I understand why people say this now. I'm not trying to apply it to the entire world, but in my personal experience, every girl I meet tends to be more attracted to the lame "cool guy" type. I don't have much in common with the vast majority of girls I come accross, so when I finally come accross someone I hit it off with, can't you imagine how frustrating it is when she'd rather date some doofy frat boy with a silver tongue?

 

I always tried to uphold the belief that these cliches weren't true, and that as long as you find a girl that's smart and mature, she'll like you for you. But from what I've seen, that's not true. Even the girls that are smart and mature and not the gorgeous super model type want a guy that's "cool" and "charismatic". Again, I'm not trying to apply that to all women period, but certainly all the women in my dating pool.

 

Act in your own best interest by finding a way to get rid of all the negativity and anger. Then you'll start liking yourself again.

 

But I DO like myself, I DO want what's best for me, and it just angers me that I'm unsuccessful in getting it.

 

But I also know that I don't like being "angry" and "bitter". I don't know how to "snap out" of that, though, and I also don't want to regress back into being sad and depressed about it again. I don't know how to make it go away. I don't know how to just stop being "angry" and "bitter" and "stubborn". I don't know what comes next.

[Batya33]

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Would you really tell your best friend (if you had one, you say you don't) or someone you're close to just to "snap out of it?". (and if you would well maybe consider that might be why you don't have close friends). You've received lots of input on the work you might do to help yourself and you come up with intellectual or logical excuses - to me, not a sign of someone who wants the best for himself. Obviously don't follow advice you don't agree with -but when your disagreements will all advice (or passive dismissal) is all about excuses it's time to question that don't you think?

 

I also think that you'll find a much wider pool of people you have things in common with once you start being more outward directed in a positive way rather than alternating between self-absorbtion/introspection or being outer-directed only to rely on negative generalizations about people. If you wanted to be alone it wouldn't matter what you thought of people or what type of energy you projected but since you do care, that is why I'm giving you these suggestions.

 

That's great that you know what you want and know what you deserve. Now you just have to get to a place where you're not going to let pride/anger/negativity stand in your way of getting it. You're getting in your own way and that's not being a good friend to yourself.

[MattW]

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Would you really tell your best friend (if you had one, you say you don't) or someone you're close to just to "snap out of it?". (and if you would well maybe consider that might be why you don't have close friends).

 

No, of course not. If I had people in my life that I cared about in any way, I'd want to be supportive and be there for them in any way I could. But what does that have to do with anything?

 

Obviously don't follow advice you don't agree with -but when your disagreements will all advice (or passive dismissal) is all about excuses it's time to question that don't you think?

 

Again, I don't deny that I'm very stupidly stubborn. I hold myself to certain standards that I don't hold other people to, and my stubbornness is pretty unrelenting in this regard. Do I like being this way? Of course not. But I literally don't know how to be anything other than stubborn. It's who I am. It's what I do to myself.

 

If you wanted to be alone it wouldn't matter what you thought of people or what type of energy you projected but since you do care, that is why I'm giving you these suggestions.

 

That's great that you know what you want and know what you deserve. Now you just have to get to a place where you're not going to let pride/anger/negativity stand in your way of getting it. You're getting in your own way and that's not being a good friend to yourself.

 

Just for reference, I'm not saying you, or anyone else, is giving bad advice, and I hope none of you think that. I just can't seem to properly absorb any of it, I can't process how this advice could actually help me, and so my stubborn nature convinces me that it won't.

 

Again, going back to the example of therapy; I don't think therapy is "bad", I don't think there's anything wrong with people that go to therapy, but I can't see the benefit of it to me. "Liking myself" and thinking I'm "good enough" is not the issue, so I don't comprehend what benefit therapy could have for me.

[Batya33]

"No, of course not. If I had people in my life that I cared about in any way, I'd want to be supportive and be there for them in any way I could. But what does that have to do with anything?"

 

Then why don't you deserve the same treatment from yourself? That's what I mean about not acting in your own best interests.