Met him after 6 years of online communication, heart in pieces

[Aarya]

Quite late where I am so I am going to hit the sack. Thank you ToF for listening to me babble asking me questions so I think and trying to help me (+ of course not giving up on stubborn me. only a select few can manage that one!).

[ToF]

I've dealt with these "mental issues before". Everyone is different of course, but I know a heck of a lot about these types of conversations. The lesson in this is: If you have to tiptoe around him, it won't work out anyway. I learned that the hard way with someone who eventually had to be put on heavy doses of medication for bipolar disorder. He was exactly the same way with commitment, and after two years I decided to leave because my needs were not being met.

 

So, sugarcoat it if it'll keep him happy. It probably won't get you any answers, though.

[ToF]

Sleep well.

[orange1234]

I wasn't going to check this thread anymore because I don't have any useful advice to give. But since EVERYONE seems to be so so so positive that this relationship is NOT going to work, I'm going to repeat myself.

 

No one here knows Aarya, no one knows the guy, no one has heard the actual conversations between them, and no one has been online friends with a Greek guy with depression for six years.

 

I wonder what the advices would've been like if Aarya, you had written the first post in a different way. IMO you seem to have added some extra information about the guy's attitude (his positive side which other posters call 'breadcrum remarks') all over this thread after writing your initial post which gave a very negative impression with an obvious title.

 

The only way to get a good advice that will convince you now is to record your next conversation with this guy and post it here.

 

Maybe the guy needs more time. If you think you can be patient enough, I don't see why everyone is so against the idea of giving him more time and space. If you want to marry this guy tomorrow, I agree with everyone else. You need to move on.

[Aarya]

Thank you orange. Actually no, I don't want to marry this guy tomorrow. And if it never happens I wouldn't be bitter about. I don't even want kids, (and if I ever change my mind I would prefer to adopt anyway - so no biological clock rush at all). I do one day want to feel like I'm his 'family' and he is mine.

 

I think yes I wrote my initial post with a bit of pessimism. He had just returned home and I was very lonely, sad and shocked. I always knew he had depression but he was never brave enough to tell me this prohibited him from having healthy relationships. He had only 3, 2 of which he ended, 1 that dumped him and he felt relieved (apparently he felt trapped and scared). He has been lonely for a few years now and with me he said he wanted to try again to see if he could. Then *something* (I've yet to find out what) triggered his fears the day he told me he does not want a relationship.

 

One other thing I've omitted is that he himself has brought up marriage a lot recently. He is very fun and loves to joke so it was mainly in a joking way. He would be very romantic during a video call and surprise me with a joke asking me to marry him etc. However the amount of times he brought it up convinced me that (even if it was subconsciously) he was thinking about it. He has also told me more serious things like he doesn't think his parents would object because they already have another Turkish bride etc. (he has brought this up more than once as well).

 

So I could be wrong and completely out of wack here but I think somehow I think in his mind he sees me as marriage material and that scares him shtless. At some point the very romantic 'jokes' about marriage and will you marry me got so much that I asked him to please not do it. Yet it's like he couldn't help himself and they kept slipping out. Then I would get sad because it felt so cruel but I know he didn't do them on purpose because I would watch him panic and also feel so guilty that he hurt me. He would instantly apologize, repeatedly for an extended time and just be so confused himself. Anyway, strange stuff....

 

I just remembered something even more crazy. I was talking about a small injury that healed. When he held both of my hands, looked into my eyes and said "now we can get married". I was hurt by this because by this time I had asked him to please stop the marriage jokes. So he felt really bad that he did it again (he can't control himself about it) and apologized for a good half hour. Anyway the next day when it came up, he did NOT remember it in that way. He had erased the event out of his memory. It was so odd.

[orange1234]

In the end, I guess everything depends on how strong YOU can be. Depressed people can be different people on a different day (well, we all tend to be that way I guess). He might say NO today but he might say YES tomorrow and NO the day after tomorrow. If you can stay strong and patient so that his daily words/attitudes won't make you *too* emotional, I think you don't necessarily have to decided about your future NOW. Just my opinion.

[Aarya]

In the end, I guess everything depends on how strong YOU can be. Depressed people can be different people on a different day (well, we all tend to be that way I guess). He might say NO today but he might say YES tomorrow and NO the day after tomorrow. If you can stay strong and patient so that his daily words/attitudes won't make you *too* emotional, I think you don't necessarily have to decided about your future NOW. Just my opinion.

 

Considering the NO was a complete shock (after very genuinely telling me we HAVE to try the previous day) I believe that I handled it relatively well (ok minus the 48 hr crying session we had without eating). That is yet another reason to have another visit, to have more time to process how many NO's and YES's there are and what he feels and what he can accomplish and can't accomplish. A week is short as it is without his mental state fogging his and my vision.

 

I enjoyed his company more than I've ever enjoyed anyones. I'm not sure I am prepared to let go of that because he is ill and confused. Maybe in the end it turns out he really does NOT want me. But right now I don't think that even he knows. Part of why he is adamantly telling me he doesn't want it is because 1. he is convinced he will fail and is scared of failing and hurting again and 2. he is scared of hurting me 3. he is scared I will up and move to Athens and ruin my life. He even told me a story about his sister and how she did something similar and he doesn't want that to happen to me.

[greywolf]

Aarya, I met someone online once, a long long time ago. It got pretty intense and I thought I was in love with him, and then suddenly, he dumped me. He said he just couldn't see how things could work out with us being so far apart, and that he didn't even know when either of us would be able to move, and in hindsight, he was absolutely right. But I wouldn't accept it. I did all the things that you aren't supposed to do when someone breaks up with you.

 

A month or so before the break up, he and I had been talking about a study abroad program that was located in his country. I decided to go for it even though he had already broken up with me. I don't regret going because I had a good time, but I do regret my reasons for doing it. I told myself that I'd regret it if I didn't, that I just had to give us a chance, etc. But now, I regret acting so desperate for a guy that didn't want to be with me. It was very pathetic.

 

If someone wants to be with you, you don't have to convince them to be with you. You don't have to go out of your way to try to show them that a relationship with you is worth it.

[Aarya]

Greywolf although I do see the similarity there are some differences here. Me wanting to go to Athens goes back to 2006 (BEFORE I ever made contact with him). Further it is not me going out of my way for him. It is something we planned together that would follow after his trip here. It was decided before he ever arrived here. He still wants (very much) to follow through with those plans (despite having told me he does not want a relationship). He was embarrassed to bring it up to me because of what he said about the relationship but very relieved when I asked him about it and shared with me that he had already planned what he would show me, do with me. (Planning is a major thing for him, he panics when planning about anything let alone a trip).

 

So this is not like me inviting myself to Athens and him being like: Ok sure if you want to come I'll show you around.

[orange1234]

If someone wants to be with you, you don't have to convince them to be with you. You don't have to go out of your way to try to show them that a relationship with you is worth it.

 

Agreed.

 

However, from the reasons I've given above, I'll go see him again if I were you. As long as it's not financially difficult. One week is not enough to build an accurate impression of someone. Visiting for another week is not like relocating to his country. No big deal.

[Aarya]

Although this brings an idea. I wonder if there is some way to ask him what it means exactly for him that I would be visiting Athens. I'm not sure what exactly to ask here and what I want to know. I'm also not sure how to bring it up without freaking him out. If he realizes I have expectations then he will panic and get pessimistic and distant because he fears plans, expectations because he fears failure to meet those expectations.

 

Before meeting he had a lot of fear. He was scared that I had expectations of what he would be like/look like and that he could not meet those expectations. He admitted that he was worried about them repeatedly.

[Aarya]

FYI Under the current circumstances of my 'relationship' with him (or perhaps even EVER unless I hit lotto or something) I would never just up and move to Athens.

[Aarya]

I have a question. It seems to me that after this week I have mainly heard the worst possible news I could hear from him (we are assuming he is somewhat sane and not an evil person etc). If I invest another week to get to know him and understand him and his wants a bit better (and let HIM explore those wants better as well) can I be MUCH worse off than I am now in terms of disappointment? What are your honest opinions? In case you can come up with an angle I have not considered.

[Aarya]

One more question:

 

In your opinion (putting yourself in my shoes) what are some of the questions (if any) you would want answers to before going for a visit to Athens?

 

And I have to get used to the idea that asking DIRECT questions is a no-no in this situation. It will put him in panic mode and send him running.

[orange1234]

Okay, it sounds like you and I are very different people but similar on some aspects, so I'm going to say what I would do.

 

I would avoid any expectations. My purpose of visiting him would be to get to know him more. Just that. I wouldn't hope for anything. I wouldn't ask anything. If he changes his mind in some way during my trip, he will let me know. He might ask when my next visit will be. Then I might ask what he means. If he just waves bye, well, I won't look back.

[orange1234]

I guess my previous reponse answers your additional question, but again, I won't ask anything. Just relax. And let him relax.

 

edit: I didn't see your other question. I wouldn't think about the outcome of my trip. I might be hurt deeper but I would regret more if I didn't go see him because of the fear of being hurt.

[Aarya]

Okay, it sounds like you and I are very different people but similar on some aspects, so I'm going to say what I would do.

 

I would avoid any expectations. My purpose of visiting him would be to get to know him more. Just that. I wouldn't hope for anything. I wouldn't ask anything. If he changes his mind in some way during my trip, he will let me know. He might ask when my next visit will be. Then I might ask what he means. If he just waves bye, well, I won't look back.

 

Technically that is an expectation! And also I expect to be introduced to some people in his life (since it was discussed). I expect to see his favorite hang out spots (discussed). I think we always have expectations. And then there are HOPES. If I didn't HOPE for good outcomes I would never go. Of course I have hopes. The important thing is that I DO realize that they may not become reality. The whole point is that I'm trying to decide if I am willing to take that risk.

[Aarya]

I guess my previous reponse answers your additional question, but again, I won't ask anything. Just relax. And let him relax.

 

That sounds so much like something he would say. (Ironic as if he can relax himself!)

[greywolf]

One more question:

 

In your opinion (putting yourself in my shoes) what are some of the questions (if any) you would want answers to before going for a visit to Athens?

 

And I have to get used to the idea that asking DIRECT questions is a no-no in this situation. It will put him in panic mode and send him running.

 

You have to walk on eggshells around this guy. Is that what you really want? A relationship where you can never speak your mind?

[orange1234]

Technically that is an expectation! And also I expect to be introduced to some people in his life (since it was discussed). I expect to see his favorite hang out spots (discussed). I think we always have expectations. And then there are HOPES. If I didn't HOPE for good outcomes I would never go. Of course I have hopes. The important thing is that I DO realize that they may not become reality. The whole point is that I'm trying to decide if I am willing to take that risk.

 

Yeah, there's nothing wrong to look forward to the trip. You're going to go see someone you love! What I meant by no expectations was no expectations of promises whatsoever. You're not going to go see him because he has promised commitment. You're just going to get to know him more. If he doesn't open up and you see nothing, that's who he is. You've learnt that he can't open himself up. Or two weeks may be too short for him to 'open up'.

[Aarya]

You have to walk on eggshells around this guy. Is that what you really want? A relationship where you can never speak your mind?

 

I understand what you are saying and at this point I don't know the answer. I don't know if my hesitation to speak is appropriate or extreme for the circumstances. (I just don't have enough info really). The strange thing is that up until this point both of us have been VERY honest and forthcoming about everything. There was such extreme and raw honesty that my friend who was listening to us was amazed at one point.

[Aarya]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong to look forward to the trip. You're going to go see someone you love! What I meant by no expectations was no expectations of promises whatsoever. You're not going to go see him because he has promised commitment. You're just going to get to know him more. If he doesn't open up and you see nothing, that's who he is. You've learnt that he can't open himself up. Or two weeks may be too short for him to 'open up'.

 

In a sense he has opened up A LOT to me already. Based on prior communications with him (and he is not really good at communicating - sometime he will panic and not be able to speak anymore. It's really awkward/sad to see that happen). So based on my prior experiences with him I as SHOCKED at how much he could open up and talk to me. I think he was as well. He said he has never spoken to someone so intimately. And he was appreciative that I wasn't judgmental about anything. So yes, who knows what another visit would bring. Maybe through observation I could see more than that and maybe I would see less, or maybe there would be no change. Point is I won't know if I don't go.

[orange1234]

SO GO!! What else do you want me to say?

[Aarya]

SO GO!! What else do you want me to say?

 

I have time to decide. I am not going in Aug. (I would love to but we are both busy, and I want us to have time to process + Athens is so hot right now).

 

So let me see how much effort he puts in the next 1-3 months. Does he want to talk/share? Or is he too busy for me, or what. Let's see how I feel where I am in life in 1-3 months. Do I still feel as strongly (I can't imagine how I wouldn't).

 

As far as he knows right now, I am not coming. I never spelled this out, but it was implied as I returned the bracelet and I'm sure he understood what I meant.

[orange1234]

Glad to hear you've finally come to some kind of peaceful conclusion.

 

In case you haven't seen my answer to your previous question about 'the risk':

 

edit: I didn't see your other question. I wouldn't think about the outcome of my trip. I might be hurt deeper but I would regret more if I didn't go see him because of the fear of being hurt.