Relationships With Severely Avoidant People

[Silverbirch]

Thanks MHowe,

Right now I'm working at building my own energy up. I'm feeling quite dragged down and needing to focus on issues in my life to take care of myself and work towards my own future with or without him. There comes a point where the only thing a person can do is to try to emotionally "let go"" to leave the other person to sort themselves out.

[Silverbirch]

Well, I think it is possible to be supportive and understanding as a friend, but to try to "let go" enough to enable the person to sort out their feelings and make their decision without feeling pressure. I don't think there is anything else much I can do.

[Ms Darcy]

I just spent a wonderful and supportive weekend with my bf. I really do not think I could put up with erratic behavior or inconsistency anymore. Once you know how great people can be ... don't know. This is not something I could have patience for. It makes me tired to read it even!

[Silverbirch]

Mrs Darcy, if this relationship doesn't work out, I'm choosing not to be with anyone else. I don't want to be with anyone else. He WAS great and supportive.

[mhowe]

Mrs Darcy, if this relationship doesn't work out, I'm choosing not to be with anyone else. I don't want to be with anyone else. He WAS great and supportive.

 

Did I miss something? It seems like you have one foot out the door, or at least your hand on the latch?

[Silverbirch]

MHowe, I'n pretty much expecting he is going to end the relationship and quite soon.

[Silverbirch]

He's been distancing himself, and I think I have good reason to believe that on Sunday night, he initiated a conversation aimed at ending the relationship, telling me that I will manage just fine without him. I didn't say anything either way on that. If he does say he wants to be on his own, I'm not going to beg or plead, and will handle things the way advised here even though that will be extremely difficult.

[Realitynut]

Unless S.B. he is unconciously sabatoging the relationship cuz he doesn't think he's able to please you...because he thinks HE is unlovable. Maybe his father made him feel unloved and unlovable....so he goes around being distant so he doesn't get hurt....when they do leave him...like his dad did.

 

Remember when he seemed quite pleased that you told him that you had the opportunity, but you chose not to be with other guys...and he seemed pleased?

He's pushing you away, hoping that you won't go. If you do go...then he can say, "i knew you would, everyone leaves me...cuz I'm 'cold, avoidant, grouchy, wishy=washy, curmudeon, unlovable, put in any word that fits...."

 

He always seems surprised that you stay with him, cuz he doesn't expect you to. That doesn't mean He doesnt WANT you to, or that he doesn't LOVE you....

 

Dan use to say he loved me more than anyone that he had ever loved...but it's never enough. (BPD trait...ugh) He said 'this is as much as i can love..maybe this is as 'deep' as i can get".....he always seemed so shallow to me.

I think women are just deeper in their feelings than men. But with D, and his relationship with his father, and his abuse....that is what screwed him up. His father left him. Something must be wrong with me (D)...i must not be worthy of love....I will become distant and uncaring...so i don't ever become hurt again....ever.

 

Animals don't hurt me. People do.

 

My take.

 

Cuz I would push...hoping Dan would pull me back. It gets very old after awhile....and pretty soon, the person who is doing the pushing...finds out he has pushed the love of his life OUT.....the very thing he/she was afraid was going to happen all along.

 

My feelings.

Right or wrong...it's a screwed up world.

 

I met a guy last wk. Thought he was gonna be someone special. At least i LIKED him....which in itself a miracle. Yesterday we did the deed, even tho i really hadn't wanted to...but gee....

and then he never talked to me all that night (like we usually do) or the next day. (like we usually did) so i called him on it, and he said i was acting like an insecure 16 yr. old...

Yep. so that one bit the dust.

So i cried again all day.

I put myself out there, and wham....expectations come along....MY expectations....not theirs....i whine...over.

 

****....never had this when i was younger...but then i guess being insecure in your 20's is natural...insecure at 57....turn-off...lol

 

So I'm just telling you this, maybe from HIS perspective...even tho he doesn't even KNOW it's his perspective. Men aren't very deep...lol...or overly think their emotions or why....it's either....she wants me...and stays....or she doesn't and leaves.

 

He doesn't know he has the power within him to really SHOW you love....cuz he never GOT it himself....how can he show love....when he never recieved it himself?

 

Sorry, will get off my ramble....just feeling a little unlovable myself at the moment.

Dam i miss Dan. ugh

[mhowe]

SB -- obviously, you are the one in the situation, and I only have your posts to go by, and therefore miss much of the interaction.

 

My take -- he is not planning on exiting, in any way, shape or form. You both are in stressful times, he has stated how much he loves you --- and that he does love you. His avoidant personality you have known from the start. You have succeeded in getting inside his walls like no one else. He may never marry you, but I think he does see a future with you.

 

I think you are experiencing this stressful time thru the lenses of the past -- which is normal. And I think you are subconsciously preparing yourself for him leaving --- and thus, creating some of the distance yourself.

 

Remember, he has little guile or manipulation in him. He is who he is --- and has been quite clear from the start. You are very, very important to him.

 

Try not to run.

[mhowe]

He's been distancing himself, and I think I have good reason to believe that on Sunday night, he initiated a conversation aimed at ending the relationship, telling me that I will manage just fine without him. I didn't say anything either way on that. If he does say he wants to be on his own, I'm not going to beg or plead, and will handle things the way advised here even though that will be extremely difficult.

 

Saying you "could manage w/out him" to me sounds like he feels you have grown and become independent....and that is good.

 

That you could manage ---doesnt' mean he wants you to. It means that he admires your independent spirit. Which is somewhat new to you!

 

I think you are reading context between the lines that isn't there.

 

D. should be a wonderful addition to your life -- but your life can and will continue w/out him. I just don't think it needs to...

[Silverbirch]

Thanks Carla and MHowe,

Carla I think you are spot-on about the abuse from his father. I knew there were problems due to the father having left and not contacted them for years, but he had never said anything about abuse before. His sister inferred she thought that D was treated particularly badly by his father. I do think also it's true that he can bond with animals because the won't leave him and the relationships are much more simple than with people.

 

I would agree that his comment about me managing without him very easily floored me, especially as he said it not long after telling me how he can feel a connection with animals, especially one old horse in particular which he can't feel with people, including me. I would say that I have felt hurt to know that he doesn't feel even equal connection and affection towards me than he does with his animals and I'm struggling not to take that personally even though I can intellectualise it.

 

I can see that just about every time things have been good, it will be followed by him distancing, and also that his father's presence is beginning to irk me even more than it does D. It's weird, but not unusual where there has been abuse that as much as he has told me how much he doesn't like his father, that he doesn't tell his father not to come. His father is there all day Sundays, practically every Sunday right through until around 8pm. He just shows up uninvited. D prides himself on not taking BS from anyone, but he doesn't want to say anything to his father about the visits - not even in a tactful way. None of his siblings want anything to do with the father. D know that many years ago, I confronted my own father. In my case, I was able to build a new and very good relationship with my own father. I think that D was sort of shocked by how I had called my own father out on his behaviour. To D, that seems unthinkable in his case, and is of course, his choice.

 

He rang me last night and told me that he had felt like he almost completely lost it in frustration when he'd been caught twice in bad weather while he was trying to work. Then when he finished work in the rain, the rain stopped. He said he just felt cursed.

 

I'm beginning to feel much calmer myself. I'm sure the anti-D's have kicked in and the anxiety is greatly reduced.

 

Next week, I'm meant to be going to a fund-raising dinner dance with D. We have never gone to anything like this together. It's not usually the sort of thing he likes to do, but he got talked into it as it is to raise money for animal welfare. I think the fact that so much of life and time is about work hasn't helped things between us. He works almost non-stop and says he likes it that way.

 

Right now, things feel very much a day at a time with him. I'm never sure how he is going to be and that is taking a toll. I won't run away from him MHowe - it is true though that I would not be surprised if he turned around at any point and says that he has decided he prefers being on his own - he's often saying how much he prefers his own company and has been very snappy.

[Silverbirch]

PS Sorry to hear this new guy hasn't appeared to have worked out Carla.

[Realitynut]

LOL...SB....it was only a week....but i thought it had promise....

Oh well..he had a teeny weenie....lol

Hope that brings a smile to your face!!! lol

Im back to my old self.

Goofy.

I might get my boytoy yet....

more to come later....

It was someone i talked to in early July

then fell thru...and i didn't answer him cuz of this new person on the horizen.

We emailed all day...

36....hot

me...57...not

[Realitynut]

PS S.B. if my S.O. made me feel less special than an old Dammm Horse....I'd call him on it so fast his head would spin.

Ohhhhh...D would NOT like ME!!!! LOL

[Silverbirch]

LMAO Carla, yes you do make me feel better. Well, I did just go up ;and see my own horses right after getting home from work and saying goodnight to them. As you possibly experienced yourself with your horse - did you say it was a Tennessee Walking Horse or am I confusing you with somebody else?? Well, my ponies won't usually go to other people - just me - unless I'm there with them and give some reassurance. They don't even usually go to D and he's just a natural with horses. I guess my guys have a special bond with me -especially the littlest one who came to me feral a year ago. Thing is for me though, it's a very separate thing to my love for people - it's just different though I wouldn't say in my case that I have a greater love for or connection with them than with people.

 

That old horse which D has a special bond with was apparently a very successful ex-racehorse who D found in a state of neglect on a property living without other horses or much of anything. Ir's known to have been aggressive towards some people, including D's daughter who is an expererienced and capable horse person. D seems to have an almost psychic bond with it. It's very old now, 29 and vet says it won't be around a real lot longer. I've taken photos of it, and planning to get an artist to paint a portrait from the photos. Haven't told D about that. D has even looked into burial for it when it passes away and has considered spending $5,000 when the time comes to have it buried at a special pet cemetery. Sounds silly I know, but I wonder if it's in some way compensatory for his father's absence, both physical and emotional. When he was a young boy, he was always wanting to do things with his father and was in awe of his father, but his father apparently never wanted anything to do with him. . . that is, until the father has become old and nobody else wants anything to do with him.

 

I was a bit surprised that D has asked if I would like him to take me to lunch tomorrow (I'm working in the evening) and he has offered to care for my dog while I work. LOL He says my dog is just like me (it's a very clever, naughty and cute Malti-Shihtzu - loads of character). He reminded me about the dinner dance next week and asked me to stay. It's the cycle again - push me away, then wanting me to come back.

 

I told him how I was feeling a lot better re the anxiety and I think the anti-d's have played a big part in that. He told me that he has had the same type of anxiety I have had these last couple of months for all of his life - as far as he can remember, and that he ALWAYS wakes up with it in the mornings and often through the night as well. I was surprised by that. I can hardly imagine what it would be like to live with that all of your life.

[Silverbirch]

LMAO Carla, yes you do make me feel better. Well, I did just go up ;and see my own horses right after getting home from work and saying goodnight to them. As you possibly experienced yourself with your horse - did you say it was a Tennessee Walking Horse or am I confusing you with somebody else?? Well, my ponies won't usually go to other people - just me - unless I'm there with them and give some reassurance. They don't even usually go to D and he's just a natural with horses. I guess my guys have a special bond with me -especially the littlest one who came to me feral a year ago. Thing is for me though, it's a very separate thing to my love for people - it's just different though I wouldn't say in my case that I have a greater love for or connection with them than with people.

 

That old horse which D has a special bond with was apparently a very successful ex-racehorse who D found in a state of neglect on a property living without other horses or much of anything. Ir's known to have been aggressive towards some people, including D's daughter who is an expererienced and capable horse person. D seems to have an almost psychic bond with it. It's very old now, 29 and vet says it won't be around a real lot longer. I've taken photos of it, and planning to get an artist to paint a portrait from the photos. Haven't told D about that. D has even looked into burial for it when it passes away and has considered spending $5,000 when the time comes to have it buried at a special pet cemetery. Sounds silly I know, but I wonder if it's in some way compensatory for his father's absence, both physical and emotional. When he was a young boy, he was always wanting to do things with his father and was in awe of his father, but his father apparently never wanted anything to do with him. . . that is, until the father has become old and nobody else wants anything to do with him.

 

I was a bit surprised that D has asked if I would like him to take me to lunch tomorrow (I'm working in the evening) and he has offered to care for my dog while I work. LOL He says my dog is just like me (it's a very clever, naughty and cute Malti-Shihtzu - loads of character). He reminded me about the dinner dance next week and asked me to stay. It's the cycle again - push me away, then wanting me to come back.

 

I told him how I was feeling a lot better re the anxiety and I think the anti-d's have played a big part in that. He told me that he has had the same type of anxiety I have had these last couple of months for all of his life - as far as he can remember, and that he ALWAYS wakes up with it in the mornings and often through the night as well. I was surprised by that. I can hardly imagine what it would be like to live with that all of your life.

[One11]

SB this sounds so familiar to me..i have just recently been in a relationship with someone who had a childhood diagnosis of Aspergers.

He was very intelligent and attractive and wise but our communication and emotional intimacy left a lot to be desired.

It sounds to me like D loves you and wants to be with you but he can't be in the way you (indeed most women) would like and he knows this so he's scared you will leave. I don't think he will leave you.

 

I always came away from our time together feeling tired and a bit..irritable..it was hard. I wish you the best.

[Silverbirch]

Thank you ONe11. I don't know if you can also relate to this, but when I last saw him on Sunday and Monday morning, he was the most loving and affectionate that I can recall him ever being. Each time things go well, he tends to withdraw. Then when things are bad, if I withdraw a bit and leave him be, he tends to come back.

 

Whilst I did originally think that he had traits of Asperger's, due to things said in recent times, I think it is much more likely that he is the way he is due to childhood abuse, and his sister has confronted him with the same opinion.

 

He often makes these really bad jokes about his father, and then sometimes will say to me I'm terrible aren't I?". I've now just started responding with: "Well you must have your reasons." That did seem to open things up a little, but I don't want to force anything with him. I know it (the abuse) is a very BIG thing for him. I did ask him on Sunday if he had thought about saying something to his father, and he said: "I don't want to hurt his feelings. . . . I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings." I asked him if he thought I seemed any different since I started taking the anti-d's. In typical D style, he said: "Yes, you are much better at understanding my jokes."

 

I'm feeling much better in myself now since having started the anti-d's a couple of weeks ago. (PLease note that I don't attribute my anxiety and a bit of depression to D, but rather to health, money, work and life issues). I'm feeling a lot less emotional, and that I will cope with whatever happens. If things don't work out relationship-wise with D (I'm still hoping they do), I hope that in time, because I will need it, that we can remain friends.

[Silverbirch]

double post

[One11]

That all sounds reasonable to me.

I too also noticed that when i would finally snap and become upset with something he had done he would be uncharacteristically forward with me, telling me how much he loves me and coming to meet me wherever i was. That was part of the reason i came to understand, it's not that he doesn't really like me, he just can't ever express it how i would expect. Also i think my partner was quite emotionally immature at times.

I would just like to add that what you are going through health wise is not a minor thing. You are being extremely strong and taking it amazingly well. I hope you are taking time for yourself as much as possible..take care.

[Silverbirch]

Thanks One11

[Silverbirch]

Just a quick update. D has taken me out twice since I last posted and was very nice. We went o a dinner dance Saturday night which urned out to be a country bushdance - sort of like an American barn dance with an Australian flavor. I saw a very different D that night! We danced all night and I've never seen him so vibrant and happy. There have been a few other good and positive things happen.

 

Strangely, a few hours before we were to go out, his father arrived unannounced and stayed right up until we were getting ready despite D telling him we were busy. He lives an hour and a half drive away and said he was just passing by. When he found out we were going out (on a date), he hinted that he would like to come too. When he did finally leave, D was blowing off steam about him. He told me also about things his father does now which are manipulative and aimed at worming his way into peoples lives. The guy is in his 80's now, and I can understand why it is hard for D to tell him o go jump. D told me several times that night that I am the only person in the world who he doesn't mind coming around unannounced (it's something I would rarely do - on occasion I've tried calling when I've dropped by but he's been on the tractor and not had his phone on him). I think it isn't just the childhood abuse he is affected by but his lifelong relationship with his father who really can be an invasive and needy person, and unpredictable in some ways too.

 

Anyway, it didn't spoil our night. I was very surprised when D told me how when he was much younger, he used to go to ballroom dance classes. Well we both had such a good time that we are planning on going to more similar type dances soon.

 

It was a big weekend for me as I had to work as well and D looked after my dog so I called by after work to get him on Sunday. His daughter had come by and he was clearly thrilled that she had spent time with him and had ridden one of his horses. He had recently told me he was sad that she seemed to have given all of that up. When she left, I saw them have such a big warm hug and they each said I love you. I've never seen them do that before.

 

D and I had something to eat - I actually cooked and we were both falling asleep together on the sofa. He asked if If I wanted to stay. It was so tempting, but I felt I should steel myself and drive home to my own little kingdom. I could tell he was surprised and a little disappointed. When I got home, I checked my phone and he had already sent me a lovely text. He also rang last night and told me I looked beautiful on Saurday, and almost first thing he said was: "You know I really DO love you."

 

There were other good things which transpired as well.

[Silverbirch]

PS Just thought I would add that despite his father being in his 80's, he obviously still drives, travels, lives in his own apartment by the beach, and even works part-time a couple of days a week doing maintenance work at one of the small airports. He only relinquished his own pilot's licence due to eye sight in the last couple of years. He has hinted strongly on many occasions that he would like to move into D's home with him, but D has said a very firm no.

[Silverbirch]

I just thought I would post a quick update in case there are others going through similar.

 

Well,things had been going okay and the other night were just happened to be talking about something in the news, and my SO said something like, "Well, how do you know I'm not a kook like that person?" I told him that I didn't believe he was a kook, that he has an avoidant attachment style and I have an anxious attachment style. It just opened up this great conversation and he agreed with all of it and added more.

 

I also said to him during the course of the conversation that not to invalidate his mutual love with his pets, but that animals are safer to love than people becase they don't present the same challenges as people - they don't disagree, they are often more loyal and they make fewer demands - however, relationships between humans and domestic animals can never be equal relationships because we human always have more power.

 

I have never seen him smile so mcuh, and good thngs have happened since then.

 

Have a good one everybody.

[journeynow]

I also said to him during the course of the conversation that not to invalidate his mutual love with his pets, but that animals are safer to love than people becase they don't present the same challenges as people - they don't disagree, they are often more loyal and they make fewer demands - however, relationships between humans and domestic animals can never be equal relationships because we human always have more power.

 

Good points, Silverbirch. It's good to hear all this.