Married Man with a pregnant girlfriend

[lavenderdove]

You can choose at any moment to start living your life in a better way and to be a better person. It is not too late for that.

 

Perhaps rather than focusing on wishing to dissuade your GF from having the baby, you should focus on how you're going to live the rest of your life. Do you want to be involved in the child's life? Do you want to do by this child and support them financially? Do right by your wife and start telling her the truth? I think if you start being honest all around there will be less psychological stress, but your life may greatly change if your wife is unwilling to forgive the cheating, so you do need to think about that and examine in therapy what might be the best way to try to untangle this mess.

 

The baby and your GF might be better off without you in their lives if you never intend to leave your wife and your child becomes 'second best' to your 'real' family. Perhaps the GF needs a chance for a fresh start and to find a man who does want to be her partner and not just her married paramour.

 

And your wife deserves your time and attention and you building that relationship rather than building relationships with other women, unless she is the rare woman who doesn't care if you fool around on the side. Only you know whether she's the type to accept this or not.

[lostandhurt]

I know this is a little off topic but: Why don't cheaters wear a condom?

 

 

Dude you are screwed unless your wife is a saint with a lot of forgiveness in her heart. Or she may have known all along and had some stud on the side all these years too.

 

I know you have been selfish and haven't thought of anyone but yourself in all this but it is time to think of everyone else this affects and take as much burden off of them and place it on yourself.

 

Personally I don't believe she had an abortion at 7 months. Babies are born premature at 7 months all the time.

 

Lost

[camus154]

I don't condone the OP's actions in the slightest, but I must say, I think there's a huge double standard going on when it comes to the abortion/pregnancy topic.

 

Everyone's acting all shocked and appalled that the OP is frustrated with his girlfriend because she keeps changing her mind on the abortion thing, throwing down the "her body, her choice" card--and then saying he needs to man up to the consequences of this decision because it took both of them to get into this mess.

 

It did take both of them to get into this mess. So you can't very well say his input doesn't nor shouldn't matter on one hand, but then say he needs to accept responsibility for being a part of it on the other.

[chickydoodle]

Its a mess. You gotta make choices you can live with. My ex of 12yrs found himself in a similiar mess- ( the other woman lied about contraception )

1.You've got to tell your wife

2. If mistress has this baby , believe me she will expect a lot of support from you, regardless of what she says now. She will hold you to ransom with this child for the rest of your life IMO.

 

I am in the position of your wife at the moment. It will be unendurable for her and be prepared to lose her. You took that risk in continuing the affair.

Regarding describing yourself with typical male traits...........I dont think so!

Be prepared to lose a lot in this mess and try and do it selflessly and with nobility. Be prepared to lose everything!

[Moontiger]

I don't condone the OP's actions in the slightest, but I must say, I think there's a huge double standard going on when it comes to the abortion/pregnancy topic.

 

Everyone's acting all shocked and appalled that the OP is frustrated with his girlfriend because she keeps changing her mind on the abortion thing, throwing down the "her body, her choice" card--and then saying he needs to man up to the consequences of this decision because it took both of them to get into this mess.

 

It did take both of them to get into this mess. So you can't very well say his input doesn't nor shouldn't matter on one hand, but then say he needs to accept responsibility for being a part of it on the other.

 

That frustration for woman comes from how we have been treated historically. Either woman have to choice to do what THEY want with there own body or they don't. The OP's choice in this situation (i.e. if he wanted a say in having a baby) was when it was time to put a condom on.

 

I don't understand why a man would be shocked or angry when his mistress changes her mind and chooses to keep the baby. Guess what? People change their minds all the time. To all guys: If you want a say in if you become a father put a rain coat on the snake before it goes in the cave.

[camus154]

That frustration for woman comes from how we have been treated historically. Either woman have to choice to do what THEY want with there own body or they don't. The OP's choice in this situation (i.e. if he wanted a say in having a baby) when it was time to put a condom on.

 

I can appreciate the historical factor. But there's also a point where people need to deal with where they are today.

 

I don't understand why a man would be shocked or angry when his mistress changes her mind and chooses to keep the baby. Guess what? People change their minds all the time. To all guys: If you want a say in if he become a father put a rain coat on the snake before it goes in the cave.

 

But that's the double standard. You're not talking about changing dinner plans, but a decision that affects many many lives and many many years and a lot of money. Why is it you're only focusing on the man's part in that responsibility to use protection? Isn't the woman equally responsible for ensuring protection is used, especially if it's "her choice, her body"?

 

Why is it the man has no choice in the matter regarding keeping/not keeping the baby, but has equal responsibility if the decision is to have the baby? Weren't both parties responsible for getting into this situation? If both parties were responsible, why is only one party allowed to make the decision? And if only one party is allowed to make the decision, then why do both parties suddenly become responsible again if the decision is to have the baby?

 

That's why it's a double standard.

[Moontiger]

Because if a man did get to say "I don't want you to have a baby get an abortion." and the woman had to get an abortion just because he didn't want to be a father is equal to forcing her to get an abortion. Lets say a woman did not want to have a child and to ensure she never did have a kid her BF was forced to have vasectomy. Being forced to under go a medical process just before you SO has an opinion about something is very, very, wrong IMO.

 

Should she have been on birth control? Yes, and perhaps she was, people can get pregnant while on BC

[Moontiger]

Also I don't think it really qualifies as being a double standard because:

 

1: He did have a choice to put a condom on.

2: He had a choice to not sleep with her.

3: Because its the woman's body. If we going to force people to get abortions than be ready for forcing people to only have a certain number of kids, forcing some people to get serialized etc.

[camus154]

Because if a man did get to say "I don't want you to have a baby get an abortion." and the woman had to get an abortion just because he didn't want to be a father is equal to forcing her to get an abortion.

Lets say a woman did not want to have a child and to ensure she never did have a kid her BF was forced to have vasectomy. Being forced to under go a medical process just before you SO has an opinion about something is very, very, wrong IMO.

 

I'm with you that you can't force someone to undergo a procedure. But why is it not just as bad to force a guy who doesn't want a kid to have one?

 

We say "too bad, you should have worn protection" in the guy's case. But we say to the woman, "that's ok, it's your body, your choice".

 

I personally think if both parties are responsible for this mess, then they should have some sort of equal say in the outcome....a woman can make the final choice on keeping or aborting the baby because yes, no one should force that decision, but if she chooses to keep the baby and the guy doesn't want it, he shouldn't be forced to provide support.

 

Also I don't think it really qualifies as being a double standard because:

 

1: He did have a choice to put a condom on.

2: He had a choice to not sleep with her.

3: Because its the woman's body. If we going to force people to get abortions than be ready for forcing people to only have a certain number of kids, forcing some people to get serialized etc.

 

Points 1 & 2 apply just as much to her as to him. You're actually supporting the double standard here, not demonstrating a lack of one.

 

Point 3 IS the double standard. Which is it? Her body? Or their decision? You can't play it both ways (well, currently you can. Which is what I disagree with). If you argue that it's her choice because it's her body, then it's also her responsibility, not his. You can't utterly ignore his wishes in this because it's HER body, but then turn around after she made the choice and say all of a sudden he's an equal part in this responsibility. That's the very definition of a double standard.

[Moontiger]

So you saying that woman MUST do what the man wants with their (women's) bodies? That's just treating woman like property.

 

Men do have a choice so it not a double standard.

 

#3, is not a double standard. Its explaining that if a woman has to get an abortion just because her guy didn't put a condom on or refrain from sex then we can also force people to undergo other medical operations. So, if your GF/Wife didn't want to have sex anymore (post-menopause) she could say to you, "I don't want to have sex so we should get you castrated." By your logic the man would have to do that.

[Moontiger]

Either woman are real people with total say on what happen's to their body or they are the property of someone else who has control over what happen's to their bodies.

 

The choice to between letting woman function as real people or treating them a second class citizens who would be forced to do what the primary male figure in their life wanted to them to do.

[camus154]

So you saying that woman MUST do what the man wants with their (women's) bodies? That's just treating woman like property.

 

Wait, what? How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? That's obviously not what I said.

 

Men do have a choice so it not a double standard.

 

No, they don't. They share responsibility for making the mess happen, they share responsibility after the choice is made, but they don't share any responsibility in making that choice. Hence the double standard.

 

#3, is not a double standard. Its explaining that if a woman has to get an abortion just because her guy didn't put a condom on or refrain from sex then we can also force people to undergo other medical operations. So, if your GF/Wife didn't want to have sex anymore (post-menopause) she could say to you, "I don't want to have sex so we should get you castrated." By your logic the man would have to do that.

 

No one's talking about forcing anything. That's my point. That's the double standard.

 

It's both people's mistake in not using protection, and it's both people's responsibility supporting a child, but it's only one person's choice to have that child. Women should not be forced to have abortions, but neither should men be forced to have babies. If men are taken out of the equation when it comes to making this decision, it's a double standard to put them back into the equation when the baby is born. That's effectively forcing their choice for them.

 

Either woman are real people with total say on what happen's to their body or they are the property of someone else who has control over what happen's to their bodies.

 

The choice to between letting woman function as real people or treating them a second class citizens who would be forced to do what the primary male figure in their life wanted to them to do.

 

These are both false bifurcations that really don't have anything to do with the discussion. I trust you don't honestly believe I'm suggesting that women should be forced into anything here.

[Moontiger]

Wait, what? How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? That's obviously not what I said.

 

It really is what you are saying. Because if a woman has to get an abortion just because a guy regrets not putting a condom on, it equal to forcing a woman to have an abortion. How if her put it all together: A guy wants a woman to get an abortion so she has to get it. That is what you are saying.

 

 

No, they don't. They share responsibility for making the mess happen, they share responsibility after the choice is made, but they don't share any responsibility in making that choice. Hence the double standard.

 

"Making the mess" = "Responsibility in making the choice" I think this is what you don't understand: men have a choice. They can wear condoms, they can refrain from sex, they can get the snip-snip down so they can't have kids. Men has a great number of choices in if they become a father or not.

 

 

No one's talking about forcing anything. That's my point. That's the double standard.

 

But if a guy regrets getting a woman pregnant she HAS to have an abortion? How is that not forcing her?

 

It's both people's mistake in not using protection, and it's both people's responsibility supporting a child, but it's only one person's choice to have that child. Women should not be forced to have abortions, but neither should men be forced to have babies. If men are taken out of the equation when it comes to making this decision, it's a double standard to put them back into the equation when the baby is born. That's effectively forcing their choice for them.

 

The man has a choice to get the woman pregnant and therefore has a choice whether to bring a child into the world or not. Both sexes make this choice at different stages. If a guy doesn't want a baby he makes that choice when he has sex. After that its the woman's body and up to her.

 

 

These are both false bifurcations that really don't have anything to do with the discussion. I trust you don't honestly believe I'm suggesting that women should be forced into anything here.

 

That's exactly what it sounds like to me. As I said, either a woman has total control over her body or she does not. If we take that control away from the woman then she is forced to do things she does not want to do. That is not a place I am comfortable with.

[Seraphim]

Men have choices in not to be a father, it is very plain and simple. If they do not take those choices they made the choice to be a father. I know they don't like to hear it and want to pin everything on the woman but it is true. THEY HAVE A CHOICE. If they do not exercise it, too bad.

[camus154]

It really is what you are saying. Because if a woman has to get an abortion just because a guy regrets not putting a condom on, it equal to forcing a woman to have an abortion. How if her put it all together: A guy wants a woman to get an abortion so she has to get it. That is what you are saying.

 

Notice how when I brought up the issue of birth control and how it's both parties' responsibility, you mentioned that the woman may be on the pill and how mistakes happen? So why do you keep addressing this like it's the guy's fault for not wearing condoms? That's precisely what I mean about a double standard. Here you assume the guy just didn't wear one, too bad so sad, but with the woman it's "oh, well the pill's not 100% you know".

 

Please reread my first post on this. You won't be able to find any part that suggests forcing anyone to get abortions. I'm not arguing that this isn't still a woman's choice to make. I'm arguing that if it's HER choice to make, then it's also her responsibility.

 

"Making the mess" = "Responsibility in making the choice" I think this is what you don't understand: men have a choice. They can wear condoms, they can refrain from sex, they can get the snip-snip down so they can't have kids. Men has a great number of choices in if they become a father or not.

 

Right...and all of this applies equally to women. You're not really making a point here other than focusing on things that men can do that women can also do. You seem to be saying that men lose all rights in having a say on what happens by simply having sex because that's their choice and they know the risks, but women don't because it's their body.

 

But if a guy regrets getting a woman pregnant she HAS to have an abortion? How is that not forcing her?

 

No. Never said a woman should be forced to do anything.

 

The man has a choice to get the woman pregnant and therefore has a choice whether to bring a child into the world or not. Both sexes make this choice at different stages. If a guy doesn't want a baby he makes that choice when he has sex. After that its the woman's body and up to her.

 

There's the double standard. See how you phrase it like the guy is in charge at first, during sex, like the woman is just standing there with no say in the matter, like accidents don't happen regardless of what anyone chooses?

 

A woman has a choice on whether SHE gets pregnant just as much as the other way around. Reality is, mistakes happen. This discussion isn't about mistakes. It's about the decisions that are made in response to mistakes.

[camus154]

Men have choices in not to be a father, it is very plain and simple. If they do not take those choices they made the choice to be a father. I know they don't like to hear it and want to pin everything on the woman but it is true. THEY HAVE A CHOICE. If they do not exercise it, too bad.

 

I don't think this is about wanting to "pin things on women" so much as scratching my head at what to me are double standards.

 

I'm a bit saddened at the "too bad" responses that seem to accompany these topics, as well as the presumably knee-jerk reaction that to question such things must mean you're trying to attack feminism or women in general. I can only imagine what women would think of men who said "A woman got knocked up and doesn't want to have the baby? Too bad. She had a choice not to get pregnant and didn't."

[Seraphim]

Well here is a newsflash I am not a feminist actually. However men cry foul all the time and say women are trapping them. Why not just take care of their own reproductive issues and then they never have to deal with "too bad". Right?

[Moontiger]

Ok, so, now you claim that woman don't have to get abortions if their partners what them to but you still seem to be claiming that if woman choose to not get an abortion then someone the guy is the victim because of this imagined double standard? Let try an example:

 

Let assume that the woman was on BC (missed a day, took it at the wrong time, etc something went wrong), and lets also assume that that man wore a condom (again, something went wrong).

 

Woman: "Honey, I'm pregnant."

Man I don't want to be a father. Get an abortion."

Woman: "I don't want an abortion. I'm keeping the baby."

 

Now, according to you if the woman keeps the baby the guy is a victim...why? They both knew that by having sex there was a chance they could get pregnant. Its not like its a mystery how babies are made. Now BOTH parties are responsible for the life they BOTH mistakenly made. I fail to see how the guy is the victim in this.

 

So, now what? The woman wants to keep the baby but (according to your logic) to avoid this imagined double-standard she has to get an abortion because its what the man wants.

 

Again, either a woman has complete control over her body or she does not.

[Seraphim]

I agree. And the OP in question said so himself that he did not exercise his right to birth control. So it is "oh well buddy, you knew how babies are made and YUP, it only takes ONCE." and now he wants to cry he is the victim. Sorry, it does not wash.

[camus154]

Well here is a newsflash I am not a feminist actually. However men cry foul all the time and say women are trapping them. Why not just take care of their own reproductive issues and then they never have to deal with "too bad". Right?

 

I'm not sure from what experiences you're drawing up that men "cry foul all the time", but I trust you see the bigger picture in this discussion.

 

Let's turn the argument around a bit, since condoms and forced abortions keep getting brought up. Let's say instead of a guy arguing that he shouldn't be forced to have (or support) a child he does not want, he actually wants to keep the child and the woman does not.

 

Same situation but with reversed intentions. Here again, the man really has no say in the matter. It's the woman's body, remember? It's her choice. Too bad, so sad. Sure, you can still toss out your "should have worn a rubber" line, but it doesn't really fit now, does it? Because that's not the point. He WANTS the child now.

[Moontiger]

AGAIN: Its the woman's body. So unless you are arguing that woman should be forced to get abortions I don't see any point to you posts. AGAIN: Either woman have COMPLETE ownership of their bodies or they don't.

 

EDIT: Or forced to give birth. Which is equally bad.

[Moontiger]

Camus, I will agree with you that a man should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body the same day I see you arguing that woman should have a say in men being castrated.

[camus154]

So, now what? The woman wants to keep the baby but (according to your logic) to avoid this imagined double-standard she has to get an abortion because its what the man wants.

 

No. You keep leaping to abortion to make it not a double standard. I'm not arguing she has to have an abortion. I'm arguing that if a woman chooses to keep the baby and the man gets no say in the matter, the man should not be forced to raise/support it. Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

 

Again, either a woman has complete control over her body or she does not.

 

See above. She still has complete control over her body. And with that complete control comes complete responsibility.

[Moontiger]

No. You keep leaping to abortion to make it not a double standard. I'm not arguing she has to have an abortion. I'm arguing that if a woman chooses to keep the baby and the man gets no say in the matter, the man should not be forced to raise/support it. Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

 

 

 

See above. She still has complete control over her body. And with that complete control comes complete responsibility.

 

So men who engage in sex fully knowing what could happen should be be responsible for their actions? No, sorry. Does not fly. If you know how babies are made you know the possible consequence to your actions.

[Moontiger]

No. You keep leaping to abortion to make it not a double standard. I'm not arguing she has to have an abortion. I'm arguing that if a woman chooses to keep the baby and the man gets no say in the matter, the man should not be forced to raise/support it. Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

 

 

 

See above. She still has complete control over her body. And with that complete control comes complete responsibility.

 

But men don't have to be responsible for their actions. I see, ya, no double standard there./sarcasm.