4 years together, no proposal

[Leya]

Definitely face it head on and directly ask him.

 

I dunno, from my personal experience and viewing a lot of my friends' experiences, I have observed that when a man says "I don't believe in marriage, it's just a piece of paper" that usually means they don't want to get married to YOU. And in most cases (not all) the guy then moves on and marries another woman.

 

For my personal story, in my 20's I spent 7 years with a man (2 years living together) and he fed me that line. Only to leave me for a coworker whom he married shortly thereafter...

 

My current guy (we've been together two years, not living together) has been pretty clear on his intent to marry me. He is currently looking at rings. (Though I DID stress I do NOT need an expensive ring, nor do I want a formal wedding, lol...I just want to "team up" with him to forge a life together.)

[DN]

DN,

 

I cannot explain why. I just can't. I don't know how to explain it.

 

p.s. forgot to mention that two of my bf's ex gfs are lawyers. Do you think it is just a coincidence? I always thought that it just happened that way...

Of course you can. You can do anything you want to. You are just choosing not to.

 

Don't you think it is a little foolish to walk away from a relationship becuase you make such a choice?

[annabelle7777]

DN,

I did not plan to break up. Just to move out, so we can both live alone.

[annie24]

I feel like if i start the conversation, it may sound like I am proposing. I don't want to propose to him. Do you see now why I am afraid to say something?

 

It's not proposing. It's just asking for clarification - for his intentions. And stating your intentions. Most couples I know had serious conversations about marriage before anyone popped the question.

[annabelle7777]

Thanks. I will make a good faith effort to start a conversation in that direction.

[DN]

DN,

I did not plan to break up. Just to move out, so we can both live alone.

That will risk a break-up. It's game playing and that can badly backfire.

[annabelle7777]

DN,

you are right that to some extent it is game playing, but he needs to wake up sooner rather than later.

[OptomisticGirl]

He can't 'wake up' if you've never talked to him about it.

[DN]

No, he doesn't need to wake up, this is something you want. Therefore it is up to you to be pro-active about it. It's pointless and unfair to blame him for not proposing. You are the one who wants to alter what you have now so don't start thinking you are being cheated of something because you aren't. The days of living together meaning an automatic expectation of marriage are long gone. Many people live together with no intention of marrying - he may feel happy as things are. So if you want to change the dynamic then you need to do something to bring that about.

[Circe]

Don't go into it with "I want to live along for a while" - he could see that as the relationship taking a step backwards and be even less ready to propose. Or he could see it as manipulation (which, lets face it, it is) and be less ready to propose. Or he could very quickly get used to living on his own, like it, and be even less ready to propose. I guess my point is, it guarantees nothing - risks everything .. and to be honest, makes no sense.

 

Marriage is a decision you should make together. sit him down, tell him how you feel. Tell him how quickly you'd like to get engaged and then married. Tell him you don't need a ring or would be happy with an inexpensive one. Ask him when HE sees it happening. Ask him what his concerns are. And then come to an agreement.

 

The same way you will be making big life decisions after you are married.

[Maeva]

You have to let him know you want to get married. Otherwise since you never talked about it he may even be scared to. My brothers live in girlfriend of years left him when he wanted to marry her because it offended her values. The 50s were over a long time ago.

 

I mean, seriously. In these things women lead men follow, even in the 1950s that was true. The female advice books of the time and my grans advice and the advice her mother gave her are chilling clear about that. Most people dont propose unless they absolutely sure of the answer, so the "real proposal" comes before the formal one, kinda.

 

Really its you who needs to wake up, because communication cannot come without communicating, no man however perfect for you can read your mind.

 

Moving out is splitting up with him, in actions which speak much louder than words and booty calls are common after split ups so still offering that wont make it not a split.

 

You are in luck the year 2012 is a leap year, so on February 29 you may propose and still be an old fashioned girl.

Perhaps ask him how he feels about that *grins*

 

When we change our life majorly such as completing a degree we often feel ready to change other things up.

Have you discussed having children?

What about the many expectations that come with marriage, what are yours and his? What was his parents marriage like? Do you know all this stuff?

Do you ever say "when we are married.. " or" our children will.." or " "when we build our dream home", "retirement in the centre of the city/the country" type things to each other?

[Stay_home]

You stated earlier that the man relocated from Europe to the United States for you. That's a hell of a way to show that you're interested in somebody, I would say. You need to give the man a chance by having a talk with him about where you are in this relationship. I have a feeling (just a hunch) that he probably has no idea what's going on because of your passive-aggressive approach. You have to communicate with him, it's not going to fix itself. And you deciding to leave in August without any effort at talking to the man whatsoever, is a recipe for a breakup. So unless you really want your relationship to fall into the bay, don't keep threatening to leave and move out.

[annabelle7777]

2 sided coin,

I never threatened to leave. I only mentioned that I may move out. Many unmarried couples do not live together. I just find it weird that he has not said anything for 4 years. With respect to our expectations of marriage- I don't know about his, but I don't think anything will really change substantially in terms of responsibilities.

@ Maeva, I have a great relationship with his family. His parents have a very long and happy marriage. However, we never say "when we are married" or "our children will" - never. I personally cannot say that...We have talked about purchasing a house.

I just find it offensive that he has not said anything so far. If a guy loves his girlfriend, he should not be affraid to talk about marriage. Why do I have to make the first step?

In a way, most of you would agree that if he wanted to get married, he would have proposed already. He hasn't, so that means he is not ready. Ok, that's fine, but at the same time I am not ready to make compromises ( as one forum member said "living together is a huge compromise).

If I am 100% sure he is not ready, I would leave. If someone cannot make up his mind in 4 years, chances are he won't do it in the next few years. It is offensive (to me) to be with someone who hasn't made his mind in 4 years. It is a long period of time.

If I knew he would not want to marry me, I would have asked him to stay in Europe (he had a great job and many friends there).

[Pinnacle]

The ole' love vs. marriage debate.

 

Here's my question to you. Do you value the love of your boyfriend more than the value of marriage? You can only choose one.

[annabelle7777]

I do value his love, but at the same time he should value mine. People need to make compromises- I understand that part. I made a huge one- moving in with him. I just have the feeling that may be he does not love me enough to propose. That's where the confusion comes from. He loves me, but I guess not enough to marry me. If this is the love he has for me (i love you, but not enough to marry you), I would rather leave!

[DN]

Living together is not a compromise, it is a joint decision. Unless you made it very clear from the beginning that you wanted marriage (and I don't mean mentioning it sometime without a response) then you are in situation of your own making.

 

These days there is no clear path to marriage, with one of the steps being moving in together and I don't think you realise that, which is why you are so resentful that he hasn't asked, as if he has some sort of duty or obligation.

 

It doesn't mean that he loves you less than you love him. That is another mistake you are making.

[Pinnacle]

I do value his love, but at the same time he should value mine. People need to make compromises- I understand that part. I made a huge one- moving in with him. I just have the feeling that may be he does not love me enough to propose. That's where the confusion comes from. He loves me, but I guess not enough to marry me. If this is the love he has for me (i love you, but not enough to marry you), I would rather leave!

 

Love is not a means to an end. I can't understand how couples break up over a ring, ceremony, and piece of paper. People live together without marriage, people have kids without marriage, and people live happily without marriage. (And unhappily, can't forget those people!)

[abitbroken]

I made a huge one- moving in with him.

 

And so did he. He moved to another country to be with you. Unless I misread. You didn't state up front that you would do the legwork if he found roommate situations online before he got to your town.

There is no "compromise" among a couple if both people do not share their needs up front to come to a decision. If one merely sublimates their choice and goes along with the flow and doesn't say nothing, they are compromising THEMSELVES and not reaching compromise as a couple. Does that make sense?

 

I never threatened to leave. I only mentioned that I may move out. Many unmarried couples do not live together.

 

Yes, many unmarried couples don't live together but they don't typically do it backwards - moving in then out and still staying together.

 

In a perfect world, yes, you should not have moved in. But you have what you have.

 

I would ask him, "so, do you ever picture us married someday?" There is no harm in that. I know you think guys will just automatically bring up marriage. Some do. But if you have not already talked about marriage A LITTLE, they will assume you don't want to. It is scary for men to go out on a limb, too. Give him the green light. Also, why not talk about marriage yourself? Be bold. If your cousin is acting rediculous over her bridal shower planning, maybe say "when (if?) we get married someday, I am not going to do that!" It brings it up in a nonthreatening way but brings it up. If you really want to take the bull by the horns, maybe ask what he wants him his future.

 

If he tells you he thinks marriage is a sham and doesn't believe in it, then you shouldn't just move out, but break up too. If he tells you that he does believe in marriage and wants to, but is just not then, then that's another thing.

But if marriage was never brought up, then you can't assume that.

 

I do think that if you are both graduate soon, i wouldn't pressure him, but i certainly would start talking about it a little bit to see where you guys are at.

[annabelle7777]

As i said, I don't care for a ring. I just believe that if you meet the love of your life, you should want to marry her/him. Also, I would not buy a house with someone whom I am not married to. It just does not work for me. I know many people do it and I respect their decisions - they can do whatever they want with their lifes and I am no one to tell them how to live.

@male forum members- you should admit that guys do not want to propose because they are "not ready", right? My argument is that if my bf is not ready after 4 years, I would be offended and prefer to leave.

[annabelle7777]

@abitbroken,

 

while i was reading your post, i said to myself "ok, she is right," but the truth is that it is hard for me to start this conversation. May be i should just indirectly mention something (as you suggested) and see what he says. He recently told me one of his friends is getting married and invited us to her wedding. I should just use one of these situations and say something like "everyone is getting married, but us" What do you think?

[annie24]

annabelle - Most of my friends who got married did not get proposed to "out of the blue." Instead, it was a conversation they had been having for a while. And believe it or not, the woman initiates that conversation often!! One way to do it is like abitbroken said - bring up some other couple that's getting married or something. Or, you know what - after 4 years together, shouldn't you be able to ask him yourself, directly? Afterall, moving to be with you was a HUGE move on his part. Maybe he hasn't asked because he thinks you don't want to get married? Men, I find, don't want to ask a woman to marry them unless they are sure she will say 'yes.'

 

One of my friends, she and her then boyfriend (now husband) actually talked about marriage and children for several years before he finally "popped the question." This is because they come from different cultures and are different religions and they wanted to work out how they would raise any children, and come to agreements BEFORE agreeing to marry. And I think this is good - these are all big issues that need to be discussed before a marriage happens. Before an engagement happens too!!!

[annie24]

"everyone is getting married, but us" What do you think?

 

That's horrible. It sounds like you are whiny and trying to "keep up with the Jones" instead of professing your love for him. "Everyone else is doing it" is not a good reason to get married. You want to get married just because everyone else is? What if everyone else was jumping off a bridge!?!?

 

How about, "Do you think that marriage is in our future too? Where do you see us going?" And then let him talk.

[annabelle7777]

Now when i think about it, I realize he may be scared to propose because he knows I once said "no" to my ex. He may be afraid i would do the same thing to him.

[annie24]

Now when i think about it, I realize he may be scared to propose because he knows I once said "no" to my ex. He may be afraid i would do the same thing to him.

 

Why did you say no to your ex? And did you tell him the reason?

[annabelle7777]

Annie24,

I meant to say it in a joking way. (everyone else is getting married, ....)