Long-Term Relationships Without Commitment - Is It A Valid Option Sometimes?

[Silverbirch]

I've started looking at my own feelings about this. I divorced many years (had one child from that marriage). Since then, I was in a 10 year relationship, then a 4 year relationship, and have been in present relationship for around 6 months.

 

My own parents divorced, but I have 3 sisters, all very happily married. For 2 of these sisters, they are second marriages (disastrous first marriages), but they have been in their second marriages for a long time. I guess because of that - having people close to me who are happily married, I never completely closed myself off to marriage.

 

I was supposedly engaged in the 10 year relationship, but that relationship ended due to his cheating. He was also diagnosed with bipolar dissorder after I was with him for 8 years, and he blamed the bipolar on his cheating. I'm glad I never went back to him. Then I was with Mr. Charm for 4 years, then dumped after his children grew up. It was that breakup which got me to ENA. I think he just wanted me there to help him with his children and other things like that. He has tried to come back into my life, but after grieving very badly for the first few months, I'm over him and don't even like him as a person anymore. (He had also asked me to marry him at one point although I did not say yes).

 

Anyway, I am with this man now for 6 months who apparently has been telling everyone he knows for around 20 years before he met me that he would NEVER marry again - because he was so unhappy in marriage and when that marriage ended, he ended up basically in poverty, brought his daughter up almost on his own from the time she was 5. That was similar to me.

 

Almost as soon as we got together, he asked me to marry him. I didn't say a lot - remember, I've been asked several times by other men, and it's never worked out. Within a short time, I could tell the man I was with was getting panicky about having brought up the issue of marriage because he brought up his original thoughts on marriage. He recently told me that most of the men he works with are married and divorced 2 or 3 times. My own housemate, a little older than I am, has been divorced 3 times. It's not something either of us wants - multiple divorces behind us. I've told him that I am not desperate to marry anyone - which is the truth, but I guess that deep inside, I've had that hope with me for many years that one day, I would be happily married like my sisters.

 

When I think about it, I recall that when my older sister remarried, they have been together around 20 years, going stronger than ever, she told me that they had decided that if they weren't able to have children, they had decided NOT to marry because they couldn't see a valid reason to do so.

 

I think I'm letting go of the idea of ever marrying again. I know that I would never merge finances with a man again, and when I think about my last 2 exes, I'm so relieved I didn't ever marry them. It would have been so much more difficult if I had.

 

Has anyone here arrived at that acceptance and gotten really comfortable with the idea of never marrying? I'm not closing myself off from another long-term relationship, which who knows, could last until one of us dies.

 

The current man I am with says he wants to spend the next 20 years at least with me (well, that's how he is at present), and that he thinks people should be together because they want to be, not because of an outdated and for him at least, meaningless practice.

 

I'd love to hear other people's opinions on this.

[B8DarkKnight]

I think it's perfectly acceptable, and in fact more and more common. Less and less people are choosing to marry, and those who do are waiting longer. I was engaged to a woman that at one point I was certain was perfect for me and we'd spend our lives together. It ended in disaster, but thankfully before we got married.

 

In regards to your current boyfriend, I don't understand what the rush is to even be considering and talking about the future so much so quickly? The two of you are together now. Are you happy with him? Is he happy with you? That's all that should really matter. The two of you can be together and live happily as if you were married, without taking the legal steps of getting married. Kurt Russel and Goldie Hawn have been doing it for nearly 30 years now, and that's far far longer than most marriages last these days. I remember seeing an interview with the two of them years ago where he said that the reason they decided not to get married is because the biggest thing marriage seems to be about in our culture...is divorce.

[Hollyj]

Probably not what you're looking to hear, but i think your current guy has A LOT of commitment and trust issues. Red flags are blaring!!!! First indicator was when he asked you to marry early on. A healthy relationship grows and you get to know one another, this guy was asking early on, and now has backtracked. You/re going to have many issues with this one.

 

I would also look at your choices as you also have many trust issues. You are not choosing dependable men: patterns here.

 

Please check out link removed I think it might help you with you past and present.

[Silverbirch]

I think it's perfectly acceptable, and in fact more and more common. Less and less people are choosing to marry, and those who do are waiting longer. Kurt Russel and Goldie Hawn have been doing it for nearly 30 years now, and that's far far longer than most marriages last these days. I remember seeing an interview with the two of them years ago where he said that the reason they decided not to get married is because the biggest thing marriage seems to be about in our culture...is divorce.

 

I have to agree with that. The stats are saying it's the case for at least 40% of marriages.

[Silverbirch]

Probably not what you're looking to hear, but i think your current guy has A LOT of commitment and trust issues. Red flags are blaring!!!! First indicator was when he asked you to marry early on. A healthy relationship grows and you get to know one another, this guy was asking early on, and now has backtracked. You/re going to have many issues with this one.

 

I would also look at your choices as you also have many trust issues. You are not choosing dependable men: patterns here.

 

Please check out link removed I think it might help you with you past and present.

 

 

Holly, by his own account, he has a lot of commitment issues. His past has actually been a lot like mine except that whilst, mostly, I wasn't ever alone for long, he chose to be on his own for many years because, by his account, he didn't meet anyone he liked enough, and he had also been hurt. He was also bringing up his daughter on his own, and he saw the harm that was caused when one woman developed a close relationship with his daughter and then left the relationship. I would say that my pattern, at least in the past, is that men have chosen me more than the other way around, and then I've allowed myself to be swept off my feet. Then later on of course, reality sets in, and I've felt emotionally commited, that I loved them and wanted to stay.

 

I don't feel that way with this guy, but it's early days yet. I'm definitely protecting my heart.

 

I did have a look at that site before a while back as I saw links to it previously from ENA. One important point is though that the very opinionated girl who maintains that site and is making a lot of money out of her books, did very much want to marry herself because she wanted children. Even if I could have children, I don't want anymore and neither does the current partner.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the author of Baggage Reclaim sees the choice of not marrying as a type of deviance which of course is a value, and she needed to find someone who shares that value. I on the other hand am giving very serious consideration to the idea that non-marriage is what I really want as my own value, and that there is nothing deviant about choosing not to marry, and that the choice is actually more pragmatic than marrying. Who knows if that author will be married in 10 or 20 years time. She's just writing about her present truth and reality. One of those women who wrote that famous, best-selling book: "The Rules" - about how to trick, catch and keep men, ended up being dumped and divorced a few months after marrying her great catch. She put out a press statement saying it was because she hadn't followed her own advice she had outlined in "The Rules".

 

I'd say that more than likely, like many people, marriage and promises are things that can come up through passion and excitement. I agree it is way too soon within the relationship to even think seriously about marriage in this relationship, but really would it really matter if I never marry? I don't think so. In fact, I don't even know that I want to ever even "live as if I am married".

[Realitynut]

SB, I have a cousin (girl/woman...now that we're OLD) who is my age. She told me when she was in 7th grade she never wanted children. She met a guy, they built an earth home, and have lived a very happy, hippy life style for almost 30 years. They never believed in marriage...or shaving legs for that matter!!! lol

 

But it's what they BOTH wanted...or didn't want...marriage or children.

 

Now ME, on the other hand, wants marriage. It's separates girlfriend from WIFE! I would like a man that LOVES me enough, is commited enough, to say, "I want to marry you. I WANT that commitment." I also believe in prenups when you are older and getting married again. Just because one could die/most have children/money you have saved etc.

 

 

I also wanted to be married again for insurance purposes. My sis married her husband a little sooner than they might have planned, because he was going to retire soon as a state trooper. She could then be on his insurance plan, whereas if they got married after he retired, she could not.

 

I guess I'm just old enough to want to be called wife and husband, rather than boyfriend and girlfriend. I also think a person fights for a relationship a little more if one is married. Stays through the rough patches a little more. Easier to just say 'bye-bye' when you are 'just' roomates.

 

SB knows how I feel about such things!!! lol

 

Doesn't mean I'll get it! Waiting for that white horse....

[Silverbirch]

LOL Carla,

I so hope that white horse gallops up soon. If not, you can come play with my white horse. I'll try and post a pic.

 

Oh, I could so do the mud brick house thingy. In fact, it is something we have both wanted for a long time. Who knows if we will end up doing it alone or together though. I would say he is one of those alternative types. Not a lot about him which is traditional. I'm a bit of both myself.

 

For me though, due to my past experiences, the idea of marriage is complicated. I was with Richard for 10 years, just loved him to bits. Then after 8 years, he developed bipolar. He honestly NEVER was the same person ever again. I recall thinking at the time "It's just liked aliens have taken my partner away, and I want him back." I stayed 2 years. He went on medication and had treatment, but he was one of those people who actually liked and felt he thrived on the highs. He went from being a person who was a great manager of money, never gambled to spending himself into bankruptcy. Most aspects of his personality changed liked that, going from someone who could maintain some type of balance to going completely over the top. He pushed me away that many times during those last years, mostly because of other women he became involved with, and last time, I wouldn't go back. I would have walked on hot coals for him at one time. Last I heard, he was "engaged". I'll bet she is a lovely person. For all his pickiness about women and appearance, he has chosen a very homely looking lady, but from what I can make out, she's a real carer. At least she met the new Richard. She would never have known the one I knew prior to the bipolar.

 

When I think of that and other things about my previous relationships, I see that at least so far, marriage hasn't been something realistic for me.

 

I see also that for a lot of people, when they do marry, they change and behave in ways that few people would tolerate if they were not married.

 

I remembered before that David has said to me in cosy moments, I don't want to be with anyone else. I'm with you because I want to be and I hope to be for the next 20 years or so.

 

Like you point out though, financially there are different issues to consider as a person gets older. There isn't the worry of having to support children, but to provide for ourselves in our retirement and old age. Hopefully, neither of us is going to retire for a looong, loooong time, but some holidays would be nice.

 

Hey have you heard of this. There is a young single woman who I work with who has been going out with a guy for a couple of years. She's pretty desperate to marry as she really, really wants children - the sooner the better. I commented to her how nice her hair looks now that it is long. She told me that as soon as she marries, she is going to cut it short. The exes wife did that and he was really put out about it. Apparently, it's quite common, and usually men don't like it. Okay, you are a hairdresser, can you tell me?

[Silverbirch]

PS I forgot to add for the people who don't know me, that I knew the current man for quite some time as a friend before I got together with him, and apparently he liked me a LOT before we got together, but I was with somebody else so he never came onto me or let me know.

[Realitynut]

I don't know what it is about men and long hair!!! lol There were a couple of girls I worked with (at the hair salon) that the husbands liked SHORT hair...but in general the guy OUR age like long hair. My sister always had long hair. Her new husband liked short hair, so this past summer, she had me cut it. She liked it, other's complimented her on it....but guess what....her husband wanted her to grow it back long!!! WHAT????

 

Men are such strange creatures!!

 

Why would a woman cut her hair all off after she gets married? To be spiteful??? Don't get it. A woman should wear her hair the way SHE likes, and the guy should wear HIS hair, the way SHE likes!!! lol

 

We just have better taste!! hehehehe

[Silverbirch]

Yes Carla, and I have had my hair a lot of different colors. Most prefer blondes. The ex didn't like it when I colored my hair darker although a couple of younger men at work liked my hair medium brown. Not sure what that is about too. Not saying there is anything wrong with looking Chinese, but on one occasion, by accident, I dyed my hair too dark and it was black. OMG, I looked so different - yes, I look Chinese with black hair. LOL!

[Stay_home]

I think the question is what is it that you're loooking for and is this relationship headed in that directon?

[Batya33]

It would have been a complete dealbreaker for me starting at the age of 21 or so if a man trivialized marriage in that way and/or didn't have a general goal of marriage or family. It's such a personal decision but I think the key is to be completely honest with yourself about what you want and not to try to be convinced by his intellectualizing and "logic" about what marriage means. If you two are on the same page about marriage and commitment -whatever that page is -then I think that's great - but if you have serious doubts about that then you owe it to yourself to do an honest analysis of that for yourself.

[mhowe]

As someone in her 50's, I cannot necessarily see the value in marriage at my age. By bf and I are approx. the same age, and obviously children are not an issue. Neither is money -- we each have our own businesses, homes, etc.

 

And while we have talked about marriage, and spending the rest of our lives together, it is not a focal point of the relationship. I really don't see the need --- beyond medical issues down the road.

 

I think it really is a mindset, and regardless of what anyone else thinks, a personal choice between you and your bf. That is not to trivialize the institution of marriage, nor to invalidate those who have had a bad experience and don't want to do it again.

[Batya33]

As someone in her 50's, I cannot necessarily see the value in marriage at my age. By bf and I are approx. the same age, and obviously children are not an issue. Neither is money -- we each have our own businesses, homes, etc.

 

And while we have talked about marriage, and spending the rest of our lives together, it is not a focal point of the relationship. I really don't see the need --- beyond medical issues down the road.

 

I think it really is a mindset, and regardless of what anyone else thinks, a personal choice between you and your bf. That is not to trivialize the institution of marriage, nor to invalidate those who have had a bad experience and don't want to do it again.

 

Yes exactly. I have a friend who is divorced and 50 -would get married again but it's not a priority -her boyfriend of 3 years is also 50 -between them they have a number of children living at home and so marriage is not really in the cards right now. They talk about it for the future but for now the arrangement works great for them.

[Realitynut]

My sis got married for the first time going on 3 years ago...I think she was 48, and he's my age around 57 or sooo...He had been married for 30 years and only single for about 3. They are into their church and believe in marriage. I mean, he got married at 17 to a girl he hardly knew, because she got preggers.

My twin brother was married 30 years, met someone last dec. on eHarmony, and this Christmas he proposed to her.

 

 

I'm still looking...but I definitely want to be a wife...not girlfriend. But I also want to be inlove...and not settle just to be 'married'. I have my own house, I have my own business (still poor...lol)

 

I guess we just believe in Marriage!

[Realitynut]

I also believe in prenup!

[Silverbirch]

Hi Everyone,

MHowe, Bataya, Carla. You've all pretty much nailed it on the head for me. Life and goals at 50 is very different to that when you are 21. Even my sis, who became very happily second-time married in her late 30's said she wouldn't have bothered if they hadn't had children - and they are so happy despite having their share of probs. When they first married and before, they had an amazing jet-setting life as her husband was employed by an airline and he got very cheap flights anywhere they wanted. They flew all about the place, including on weekends. Then the airline folded and husband was unemployed for quite a long time, then only able to work part-time. When this happened, they had 2 young children. My sister worked her butt off during that time which probably lasted around 2 years until things got a lot better for them.

 

I too don't trivialise marriage. I'm in 2 minds about the pre-nup. On the one hand, it's not really confidence-inspiring as far as a relationship would go, but I suppose it IS realistic - at least 40% of marriages end in divorce.

 

When I did marry at 22, I really thought my marriage would last forever. We WERE together a long time. My son's father realised and accepted that he is gay, and now lives semi-openly as a gay man. We are friends and respect each other which is fortunate for my son. I suppose that even though the marriage was what seems a life-time ago, there will always be a type of bond there between us, having married and had a child together. I think there is still a sort of sadness for both of us that we weren't able to remain married, but in order to become authentic to ourselves, remaining married just wasn't an option. We still care very much about each other though probably more like one would care about a sibling than a partner.

[mhowe]

Well, if you don't get married, you don't need a pre-nup. And if you do marry, you can agree not to blend your finances.

 

Pre-nups exist for a reason, and probably the wealthier you are, and the younger you are ---are a necessary safeguard. However, at later stages in life, a will can surfice to allow assets to pass to family and not a spouse.

[Silverbirch]

Well, I've decided to give at least some of my stuff away before I die. I don't have any female "heirs" - not even a neice. I've got quite a lot of reasonably valuable jewelry (for a working class person) so I'll give it to my sisters and friends before I die. I'll also be making provisions for my animals to be taken care of for as long as the money lasts.

 

I am glad that in my last 2 relationships, I was completely financially independent and I never merged my money with theirs. Thank God for that because when Richard developed bipolar - like I said, he spent himself into bankruptcy. He also put a lot of money through poker machines, and he never gambled for the previous 8 years I knew him. If I had borrowed money for a house or whatever with him, that would all have gone down the gurgler. My most recent ex borrowed tens of thousands of dollars for his children education and dental care as well as expensive holidays for them and other gifts. None of those things were appreciated by the children. They just compared their lot to the rich kids at school So glad I wasn't part of that. Not blending finances is very important to me, but having said that, even my ex agrees that I can be very generous, and if there was a genuine misfortune, I would have helped out any of my exes however I could. I can't see that part of me changing.

[Silverbirch]

Funny thing is that since I came to the realisation that marriage is not that important to me, and that even my mother has always said that I was the "different one" to her other children - I am so unlike my married sisters so why should I have ever expected to live a life similar to theirs - well, the man has definitely done some type of turnaround and VERY much on the scene. I'm now of the mind-set that we are still getting to know each other as we always will be. I DO think we are very compatible and good together - which is what he has been saying a lot to me.

 

Somebody from ENA sent me an IM and shared some info from Al Turtle, but I couldn't find it, and it was to do with the concept that there will be one partner who will be the "space-saver" or a similar word, and that isn't always such a bad thing. My b/f had been on his own completely for 12 years before I came along and I've lived on my own for a couple of years. I think that for both of us, but more so for him,that he filled his life with SO many things, and there really is a big adjustment when another person comes on the scene. It does seem to me that when you respect and give the person the space they need, they will often come back to you with a whole heap more to give.

[Realitynut]

There was a book I read about men being like rubber bands...when they get too close, they snap back. First they snap back quite a ways...but depending on how you handle it, the next time they snap back away from you...they don't snap so far. If you let them have their space, the distance they keep will always be shorter...does that make sense??? I think it might have been from the book, woman are from Venus, men from Mars. A lot of it made sense.

 

Gonna go now and look up Tantric Kissing...ya never know when I meet someone I'm willing to kiss!!! lol

 

So far the prospects are slim...to none....

 

And I'm feeling kinda down about that...had a few tears driving home, and feeling sorry for myself!~

[Realitynut]

Oh I read lots of Al Turtle. Printed tons off to read to Dan...but by then it was too late!!

[Silverbirch]

Hugs Carla. So sorry. Yes, I think the rubber band analogy seems to fit. I like Turtle's wisdom.

 

Oh yes, the Tantric kissing is really beautiful - but then I suppose it depends on who you are doing it with.

[Silverbirch]

I'm sort of surprised right now. It's very late here. The man in my life came around this afternoon for what I thought was just going to be a cup of tea. He left not long after midnight. It was such an easy and happy evening. He seemed different - very happy and relaxed. He told me he wants me to marry him, that he knows I'm his soulmate, he loves me and wants us to grow old together. I told him that to me, the most important thing is that we are together because we want to be,and that is much more important to me than a piece of paper or a ritual. I wasn't just saying that. I mean it. But I do feel very happy and contented. I think we are going to be together for a long time.

[Batya33]

That sounds like a wonderful evening! How did he react to your opinion that marriage is (just?) a piece of paper or a ritual?