Inappropriate photos

[PaintWithLight]

The fact that he has called you twice shows that he is continuing to pursue you. The photo was a cowardly way to attempt breach the wall of friendship and turn things sexual. As you say, if it had been a photo of him, it would have been more clear what he wanted but he would also have taken more risk. This way, he can attempt to deny it was anything wrong, just him showing a girl thing to another girl. This guy is trouble...

[PhilliesFan001]

Your rather militant defensive stance suggests a disdain for those who do not appreciate such nonchalante flaunting of what many [or even most] would regard as a fiercely private subject. I think the previous quote is extremely good advice to heed...you haven't had bad luck...YET. Once it's out there, though, it's the sword of damocles until it falls...How long will the pictures last, is a great question...

 

 

 

I don't even know if they're thinking in the moment...

 

Er, not militant - just don't think her (or my) opinion on the photos has anything to do with the actual thread. The OP was asking for help in dealing with the GUY in question, not what we think of his girlfriend and her pictures. If you, CAD or I would like a sounding board for our differing opinions, this is not the place. This "argument" is really just serving to derail the thread and will probably lead to it being locked, so I suggest we end it here and let the OP continue to get advice on the specific question.

[PhilliesFan001]

I think you might be on to something here.

 

Why are we so quick to assume that he's a creep. Maybe his girlfriend and him are voyeurs and they get a kick out of it? Maybe she knows what he's doing? Who knows.

 

Either way, OP, if it makes you uncomfortable, tell him so and report him if it doesn't stop. Having conversation laced with sexual innuendo is a far cry from showing pornography in the workplace.

 

Hope it helps!

 

Hmm, possibility - I remember reading a Savage Love column once where the guy wrote in looking for ways to involve strangers in his exhibition fantasies with his girlfriend. Totally uncool forcing unwilling people to participate!

 

OP, definitely report this dude, he sounds like a major creep.

[catfeeder]

People get fired for this stuff all the time. I'd just remind him of that and move forward. All else is interesting but not relevant.

[Snny]

^^^^^ THIS!!!!!!!!!!! You can also file a sexual harassment charge against him at work.

 

The last restaurant I worked for... a server showed me a picture of himself... before he knew I was engaged and saw the ring around my finger. He definitely wasn't interested in me as a friend- he wanted me to comment his "thing." He was clearly advertizing it like the OP's co-worker was with his gf's Vajayjay. Catfeeder has a nicer way... but with stuff like that, I am a mean snake when I feel violated and harassed at work and reported the guy. I'm pretty sure my fiance wouldn't appreciate a guy I met for 2 days showing a picture of himself naked.

[annie24]

I agree with everything Paintwithlight said. Furthermore, I want to add that this is sexual harassment and needs to be written up. I agree that with the phone calls afterwards, he is, again, pushing boundaries. He's trying to see how far you will go.

 

Hmm, possibility - I remember reading a Savage Love column once where the guy wrote in looking for ways to involve strangers in his exhibition fantasies with his girlfriend. Totally uncool forcing unwilling people to participate!

 

OP, definitely report this dude, he sounds like a major creep.

 

Yes, he is definitely pushing boundaries, trying to involve you in his sexual fantasies, this is not appropriate at work!! I think you need to tell him to never ever do this again, this is not acceptable behavior.

 

I read that Savage Love article too - definitely a creep in involving an non-consenting 3rd person in their sex games.

[catfeeder]

^^^^^ THIS!!!!!!!!!!! You can also file a sexual harassment charge against him at work.

 

The last restaurant I worked for... a server showed me a picture of himself... before he knew I was engaged and saw the ring around my finger. He definitely wasn't interested in me as a friend- he wanted me to comment his "thing." He was clearly advertizing it like the OP's co-worker was with his gf's Vajayjay. Catfeeder has a nicer way... but with stuff like that, I am a mean snake when I feel violated and harassed at work and reported the guy. I'm pretty sure my fiance wouldn't appreciate a guy I met for 2 days showing a picture of himself naked.

 

I can appreciate this as a valid option, and I wouldn't take it off the table. I like to consider things in two ways: context and degree.

 

In the context of my career, how important do I want to make this incident, and how will that decision impact me going forward? If this job is important and part of my career path, I'm not putting myself on HR's radar over an incident I can handle myself--so in context, the guy is a nit and I can do what it takes to get him out of my way. I'll use my coins with HR for something that actually matters. Rather than flag myself as a potential liability to the company along the way, I'd prefer to build longevity without incident along with a rep that owns some clout.

 

However, then there's degree. If I've maxed out my own efforts to resolve a problem like this, then I've also documented each incident and can present a case to HR with confidence rather than emotion. Luckily, I've never had to do that.

[annie24]

I suspect this guy has shown that picture to some of his male buddies as bragging rights. The guy is revolting. While I do feel sorry for his gf for being publicly exposed in that way, I still feel that men and women who knowingly and willingly have naked and sexual photos taken of themselves are incredibly naive and lacking common sense and long-range thinking. They are just thinking in the moment.

 

It's getting to be the thing people do nowadays. Girls, if you don't want your genitalia advertised to the world, don't let anyone including yourself take pictures of it. If you're comfortable with it, go right on ahead...

 

While I understand the point that taking a photo of yourself nude means that it can be passed along. However, don't people in a romantic relationship have an expectation of some privacy? I don't think that the victim should be blamed. What about when you tell someone a secret? don't you expect that they not spread it around? I think it's one thing if he got drunk and showed one of his buddies at the bar the picture of his gf's vagina - but to a female co-worker, completely sober?? That's beyond immature, that's sexual harassment. I wonder if the gf shouldn't be told about this.

 

By the way, even if he showed her a photo of a random porn star at work, that would still be inappropriate.

[annie24]

I agree - context is very important. She can tell him firmly that she NEVER EVER wants to see this again, or any other communications of a sexual and non-work nature. But a clear line needs to be drawn. If he keeps doing it, she should make the official report.

 

When I was in college and took a chemistry lab, my male partner made an unwanted sexual advance - patted my ass - (while I was holding boiling hot chemicals, by the way.) I yelled at him and told him never ever to do that again. He dropped the class.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

While I understand the point that taking a photo of yourself nude means that it can be passed along. However, don't people in a romantic relationship have an expectation of some privacy? I don't think that the victim should be blamed. What about when you tell someone a secret? don't you expect that they not spread it around? I think it's one thing if he got drunk and showed one of his buddies at the bar the picture of his gf's vagina - but to a female co-worker, completely sober?? That's beyond immature, that's sexual harassment. I wonder if the gf shouldn't be told about this.

 

By the way, even if he showed her a photo of a random porn star at work, that would still be inappropriate.

 

Absolutely there is an expectation of privacy...but there is also an expectation of being treated right, being treated respectfully, not being cheated on etc etc...and yet in many relationships people are cheated on, lied to and treated like garbage. So if people have the capacity to betray the essence of a relationship that way, it is not a stretch that some people will go even further and violate the partner's privacy regarding photographic images of their body parts. I am not blaming the victim for having a jerk of a partner who betrayed her trust...what I am saying is that she chose to live in the moment rather than to think of the possible consequences of being that reckless regarding the most intimate parts of her body. When people go skydiving, they know the risks..when people put money in the stock market, they know the risks....but it seems like not enough men and women are aware of the risks of taking photographs of their genitals and sending it off to someone who is their loyal partner today but may not be their loyal partner tomorrow.

[annie24]

I know some married couples who do take X-rated pictures/video of each other. I think it can be a fun thing to do and yeah, it should be part of their marriage and not go to the outside world. Granted, he's not married, but he's living with the mother of his child, so they are practically married. He's double skeezy for 1- showing the picture of her, his committed partner, and 2- showing the photos to his female coworker. He's a creep all around - he's not immature.

 

We all do things in life knowing the consequences. but you have to leave the house, you can't stay in your house forever, not get married, not have kids because you are afraid that someone, one day, might break your trust.

 

Now - someone else (i forgot who) in this thread said it's no big deal, it's just a woman's vagina, nothing to panic about. True - but I'm more concerned about the context - ie, showing private photos, while at work, to someone who did not ask to be shown that photo.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

In this day and age where divorce is commonplace, it is also incredibly risky within a marriage. People got along quite well with their sex lives before point and shoot digital cameras and cell phone/cameras...they didn't feel the need to be acting like porn stars making a movie starring them or pretending to do a photo shoot for Playboy or Penthouse or Hustler magazines. Marriage, children etc is not the issue..the issue is how poeple have pushed the envelope with their actions and then are astounded that it came back to haunt them. Marriage and children is about companionship, love and raising a family. Not comparable to taking photos of your genitals.

 

However, I do agree that this is not a case of the guy being immature, it is that the guy is a major jerk and really creepy, not to mention the fact that he is showing this to a work colleague.

[Lonewing]

While I understand the point that taking a photo of yourself nude means that it can be passed along. However, don't people in a romantic relationship have an expectation of some privacy? I don't think that the victim should be blamed. What about when you tell someone a secret? don't you expect that they not spread it around? I think it's one thing if he got drunk and showed one of his buddies at the bar the picture of his gf's vagina - but to a female co-worker, completely sober?? That's beyond immature, that's sexual harassment. I wonder if the gf shouldn't be told about this.

 

By the way, even if he showed her a photo of a random porn star at work, that would still be inappropriate.

 

Such expectations are naive nowadays. when you do or say anything, you must train yourself to think as if the person you give that information to is going to splash it all over the Internet - and then proceed likewise.

[Lonewing]

Now - someone else (i forgot who) in this thread said it's no big deal, it's just a woman's vagina, nothing to panic about. True - but I'm more concerned about the context - ie, showing private photos, while at work, to someone who did not ask to be shown that photo.

 

Yeah, that was me. Call it a desensitization to nudity. Once we get that, we'll be better equipped to reacting to these situations. It may be a private photo to you, but that idea of what is private and what is sharable private is under flux at the moment. We don't ask to be shown these things - we just are. I say this as one who has experienced a fair share of "hey, check this out!" And it's a penis...or a vagina. A snicker and a laugh, a "now that's just great" and eventually they understand you don't care to see it and they don't show you.

 

The context is indeed of consternation though - and I think she needs to be firm and direct with him and tell him straight forward that she is not interested in his advances and if they are to continue, she WILL pursue those avenues available to her until he stops. I relaize the popular approach nowadays is to simply run off and tell "Daddy," but my training emphasizes keeping things ont eh lowest level as much as possible as a mature manner of handlign conflict. This angle respects him as a human being, but puts him in his place for being out of line and it provides him with a very clear understanding of her stance, whereas right now he might think everything is cool with her. I realize that this approach is becoming more and more bsent form our culture, but I still believe it's the most mature manner to handle this situation.

[annie24]

Trust me, I am not vagina-phobic or genital phobic. My problem is that what he did was inappropriate in the context (ie, sharing nude photos of his gf - at work.) I went to a party recently - it was a backyard BBQ, we were all drinking a lot. One guy decided to go relieve himself by a tree, but did so in full view of everyone at the party (he didn't hide behind the tree). I sort of just rolled my eyes and was like, 'you know there's a working bathroom IN the house!' The hostess laughed. Apparently there was one woman there who got very very offended. However, that's a party, this is work. By the way, in my line of work, we look at lots of medical diagrams and photos, including genitals, and even occasionally photos of childrens' genitals - but this is in no way porn or child porn. Again, all about context.

 

And to be honest with you, I've been annoyed at times when I am very busy at work and a coworker interrupts me to show me a picture of a new purse she just bought. I'm like, 'I'm busy, can't talk now' and go right back to my computer.

 

The whole "going to daddy" thing - I mean, why should she be the bad guy in this story for reporting the guy to management. She might be able to have a stern talk with the guy and he won't do that again, but this is something that does need to be documented and have a paper trail. Why shouldn't someone be protected at work from these sorts of unwanted advances? If he escalates in the future, the company will ask why she didn't speak up earlier. Even if she decides not to tell the company (or the gf) what happened, she definitely needs to tell this guy in no uncertain terms to knock it off. So, deal with it yourself if you can, but don't hesitate to go up the ladder either.

[annie24]

Such expectations are naive nowadays. when you do or say anything, you must train yourself to think as if the person you give that information to is going to splash it all over the Internet - and then proceed likewise.

 

Ok, so if I am your wife, and you tell me a deep dark secret, and then I go blab it to everyone I know, it's your fault for being naive and trusting your wife to keep a secret?

[Lonewing]

Needs to be documented and leave a paper trail? Why? As far as he thought, he though she was friendly and this is something friends do with each other nowadays - they show pictures like this. I only know this because I've seen it - and not just once. There's been a lot of social erosion in the last decade...

 

The best action is to simply make it clear to him that it is unwelcome - but that does not mean he needs to be branded for the rest of his life because he misjudged her as a person. Now if he keeps pressing the issue after she's given him the clear ultimatum, then it's more than reasonable to build his paper trail.

 

One part of exercising the law is Fairness. The other part is Justics. Disgression of when to use what and how much really determines the calibre of the person - and lets everybody know what kind of person you are. And yes, it will have implications on how people interact with you at work. If it is discovered you're a sensitive prude who will run to daddy every time something like this happens from the first step, they will learn not to trust you period. And they will not work with you the best they can. And if you need help, they will not be there.

 

This is my training on the subject. You start with the lowest level, handling the confrontation in a mature adult matter using clear unambigious terms. If this intervention does not yiled frutiful results, then it's pushed up the chain - and the chain understands that yes, you didn;t go to them the first time, which puts it doubly hard on the perpetrator because they CLEARLY knew these advances were not welcome. Right now, this guy thinks it's OK - he thinks he's friends with her. She needs to make that boundary clear - but the ladder is not the first resource she should be running for. now if he physically touched her or anything of tha matter, THEN she should be right up the ladder without hesitation!

 

I really get sick of this "Protection From..." Line. We have a constitution in this country that Gives ALL of us the freedom of speech. This Freedom of Speech only works, though, if we all uphold our individual responsibilities. first, just as we are free to give our opinions, we must freely give our tolerance to hear and receive the opinions of others even when it is inconvienient to ourselves or SPEECH IS NOT FREE. That lady at the party found his body language to be distasteful, but she did not have to look - she could have politely turned her head or simply walked to somewhere she didn't have to see that. That's HER responsibility.

 

Now if these unwanted advances occur somewhere we cannot leave, such as work, then it is our resposibility to inform these individuals that their advances are not welcome in that space - and we do that by confronting them, as a human being, mono a mono being best, and laying out how it will be. Once that boundary has been placed, if it is not respected, THEN is the time to take the issue right up the chain to the next levels and so forth.

 

We're adults. We must learn to protect ourselves by standing up for ourselves when it is appropriate - just say no to nanny state.

[Lonewing]

Ok, so if I am your wife, and you tell me a deep dark secret, and then I go blab it to everyone I know, it's your fault for being naive and trusting your wife to keep a secret?

 

Yes. And I further placed a burden on you because I gave you something juicy that you "can't tell anybody." Who am I to place these demands on you???? Yes, you're my Wife, but that doesn't give me a right to abuse our relationship with these sorts of demands!

 

It's far better if I simply accept that anything I tell you may go global, so I simply don't tell you those kinds of secrets - and I gauge for myself what might constitute that sort of secret. In this way, when I tell you a secret and I hear you blabbed it, guess what: I've already forgiven you because it wasn't THAT important in the first place.

 

The most effective step to solving a confrontation is by preventing it from the start.

[PhilliesFan001]

Wow. What a sad way to live that sounds like.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

We have worked together for a couple of years, talked a lot and have definitely crossed some conversational boundaries, so it wasn't entirely random

 

This is what the OP said. So at this point, to go to management would be inappropriate since she had already established a friendship with this guy to the point where some of the conversations had crossed boundaries. I would not consider this harassment...just some guy who doesn't understand the notion of privacy and boundaries. She can sort this out one on one without getting management involved.

[annie24]

Yes. And I further placed a burden on you because I gave you something juicy that you "can't tell anybody." Who am I to place these demands on you???? Yes, you're my Wife, but that doesn't give me a right to abuse our relationship with these sorts of demands!

 

It's far better if I simply accept that anything I tell you may go global, so I simply don't tell you those kinds of secrets - and I gauge for myself what might constitute that sort of secret. In this way, when I tell you a secret and I hear you blabbed it, guess what: I've already forgiven you because it wasn't THAT important in the first place.

 

The most effective step to solving a confrontation is by preventing it from the start.

 

What is the point of getting married then, if you cannot completely trust your spouse?

 

Sorry OP, am not trying to go off topic here, but I am trying to make the point that this is in no way the gf's fault for having taken the photos.

 

CAD - I do agree, since they've had conversations that have 'crossed the line' before, it would be better if she dealt with him herself first.

[annie24]

As far as he thought, he though she was friendly and this is something friends do with each other nowadays - they show pictures like this. I only know this because I've seen it - and not just once. There's been a lot of social erosion in the last decade...

 

The best action is to simply make it clear to him that it is unwelcome - but that does not mean he needs to be branded for the rest of his life because he misjudged her as a person.

 

No - he did not 'misjudge' her. It means that a man is a creep if he thinks that showing nude photos of his gf while at work is an appropriate thing to do. If you ever do this at work, don't be surprised if you get fired.

 

It sounds as though you are misogynistic - the gf is at fault for sending a naughty photo to a man she trusts - the father of her child. The OP is at fault for being offended at a photo. And all this guy did was think that the wrong person is a friend? No, sorry.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

The guy is a creep for violating the privacy of his gf. However, regarding the OP, we don't really know the kinds of conversations they had. If things had crossed the line, how far accross the line had they crossed. Did they ever discuss photos they took of their own private parts or those of a partner or ex partner? If they had gone that far in their discussions, then I can see why the guy might think showing a photo would be the next step in that line of discussion (ignoring, for the moment that it is a huge breach of trust for the gf). If the discussions never went so far as talking about photographs of private parts, then he should not have concluded that pictorials would be the next step.

[PaintWithLight]

The guy is a creep for violating the privacy of his gf. However, regarding the OP, we don't really know the kinds of conversations they had. If things had crossed the line, how far accross the line had they crossed. Did they ever discuss photos they took of their own private parts or those of a partner or ex partner? If they had gone that far in their discussions, then I can see why the guy might think showing a photo would be the next step in that line of discussion (ignoring, for the moment that it is a huge breach of trust for the gf). If the discussions never went so far as talking about photographs of private parts, then he should not have concluded that pictorials would be the next step.

 

This.

 

It might not seem so creepy and random if they had gone into explicit areas in conversation before. OP, what did you too talk about that you seemed to think was too much before? It still does not excuse his behavior.

 

I think it is a classic case of a guy thinking: she will talk about it with me... I wonder if she will do things with me... The photo was just an attempt to push into new sexual territory with her. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[Lonewing]

What is the point of getting married then, if you cannot completely trust your spouse?

 

Sorry OP, am not trying to go off topic here, but I am trying to make the point that this is in no way the gf's fault for having taken the photos.

 

CAD - I do agree, since they've had conversations that have 'crossed the line' before, it would be better if she dealt with him herself first.

 

You say this, andyet I have a brother who is dead because he so entrusted his wife. No, you CANNOT entirely trust your spouse - they are no different from any other human being. To put them on a pedestal as a somehow higher form of life is a setup for failure and disappointment.

 

Yes, it IS the GF's fault for taking those pictures or allowing those pictures to be taken in the first place. Once taken, if she gave permission to do so, the pictures belong to the photographer - so if he took the pictures, they are his by right to view and distribute!!

 

And the Op is the person who has given this guy the impression that this behavior will be welcome by their past interactions, hence, she has to set it right through him first. That's logical.

 

If this behavior defines a creep, then I work with a very large number of creeps and they're quite popular with the ladies. No, they are not creeps; this has simply become a new social entity withthe advent of these cameras on our cell phones.

 

Europe does not have the issues with skin that we do - we'd be well to pick up that desensitization.