Can't call me his girlfriend

[SharkFanatic]

In not giving up a title, the commitment to not advertise himself as single, according to my male friends - the guy doesn't want to give up his shot to trade up. Crass. Simple. True.

 

The idea of "trading up" isn't always about actually trading up. In fact the whole concept of "trading up" ( or GIGS as it's referred to on ENA ) is just about persistent fantasies.

 

Very often, guys like me "trade up" in our heads a couple times a day, a couple times a week, whatever. (The difference between me and the guy off the street (both of us "trade up", right?) is that I do it in order to sabotage my own happiness so I can have an excuse to leave the relationship.)

 

Anyway, who is the new model? Usually "she" doesn't even exist. We compare our current love interest to a non-existent fantasy that we can never even have. That's what was SO neurotic about me. I wasn't even comparing my ex-girlfriends to anything that was based in reality. Sure, I sometimes compared the current girl to an "actual girl", but even then, it was just my fantasy about her. It was never rooted in reality. Sometimes we can convince ourselves that the "trade up" is better for us, but in reality, we'll usually end up in the exact same place as before. ( Comparing the current "trade up" to our string of never ending fantasies. )

 

The problem with fantasy occurs in people without serious commitment-phobia, but it has a special place in the tool chest of a commitment-phobe because it is an incredible tool for rationalisation. Compare the girlfriend to the fantasy. She'll never measure up. That makes it easy to think things like "well, she's too this or too that" compared to the "fantasy". You know what happens next... "I'm not feeling it"... "Not sure I want a relationship right now"... "You deserve better"...

 

Doesn't mean he doesn't care about you. AND it doesn't mean he can't get to that point in the future. I'll go back to my friend. My friend's past long-term girlfriends had to wait a while (6 months, a year) before he committed.

The question for you to answer is to think about how long you are willing to wait.

 

True! Patience is a virtue!

[SharkFanatic]

Sorry for such a run of posts today. I just want to communicate.

 

What really set things off for me was the end of three sequential relationships. (Not the current girlfriend. Things are stable between us.) Basically, the third ex-girlfriend dumped me, explained that she was doing it because I was commitment-phobic, and then enforced the boundary hard. I didn't contest the breakup (I was too hurt) and we haven't communicated since.

 

 

It wasn't even so much that she dumped me. It was that she wouldn't have anything to do with. Like I was diseased or something. She seemed angry and afraid of me. Incredibly painful and utterly humiliating. First time I ever had a girlfriend who told me to go take a long walk off a short dock. She meant it too. Every word.

 

And she was right.

[SharkFanatic]

Shark, good post. More so because you sound almost exactly like my girlfriend. All of what you said could have come straight from her mouth..."internal pressure," "coping skills."

 

Thanks Banal!

 

Is she serious about fixing herself up then? Because it's one thing to talk about it, and another thing to do it.

[90_hour_sleep]

Whether the "relationship" feels great or not doesn't matter. The absence of a title IS an issue because it means he can up and leave at any time for any reason and not feel too bad about it. That's why people do this - it's a kind of insurance policy in the event of a future change of heart, and a way of managing your expectations downwards and limiting their own accountability should circumstances change down the road. So effectively you have one person wanting to give their all and the other person wanting to give what they feel like, when they feel like, conditional on them. Which is a lopsided relationship.

 

i agree...it's an issue. but i disagree on the the explanation. even people that are invested in an acknowledged kind of way can up and leave whenever and for whatever reason. saying you're going to stick with someone means nothing unless it's something you find value in. and even then...it's only a statement of what one feels in this moment. it's a sentiment based on an expectation of what the future holds. and expectations are challenged frequently in relationships. while it's nice to be able find some security in a partner...there's no way a person can know that their partner is going to stick around...words or no.

 

honestly...i'm as curious about the commitment eager beavers as i am the commitment phobes. needing commitment says as much about a person as avoiding it says about another. they're two sides of the same coin. ask yourself why you need it? insecurity? fear? it's probably a combination of those two things. having someone say they'll be with you for an indefinite period of time is comforting. it's also ridiculous to buy into it. really...it's just a clever way to bypass the uneasy feeling that the prospect of change stirs in us humans. we fear change...instability...discontentment. so we work tirelessly to avoid it. hearing that our partner is in it for the long haul allows us to feel a reprieve from the discomfort of feeling alone. it's fear.

 

i understand and appreciate why people need to hear these things...but i think it's worthwhile as an individual that requires that kind of constant validation to stop and reflect on why that is. the fact that someone can stir such insecurity in me...i'm inclined to be curious about that. it says alot more about me than it does about the other.

 

people who don't commit are decent loveable human beings. they just happen to be on a side of the fence that our culture has deemed 'wrong' because of it's fascination with all things eternal. personally...i'd rather end up with a person who fears commitment than a person who jumps in, guns blazing, for all the wrong reasons.

 

just my thoughts though.

[banal]

Thanks Banal!

 

Is she serious about fixing herself up then? Because it's one thing to talk about it, and another thing to do it.

 

I think she is...she's admitted her problems, and she's trying - I believe she is, anyway - to not succumb to internal pressures and demons. I know that, in the past few months, she's done a much better job of communicating with me and handling adversity and not running from it. Will this last? Who knows...though I bet you do.

[mad rabbits]

Yeah I hear where you are coming from 90...but at the same time I kind of think, well, if you are going to do something, do it properly. Be all out, or all in. If I'm ambivalent, I owe it to the other person to stay out, and not waste their time... which is kind of where I am at now.

[Nixee]

More fantastic replies and discussion that is giving me a lot to think about....

 

How long have you guys been dating, er, uh, seeing each other?

 

Have you ever talked about monogamy? Is he okay with that concept?

 

It does sound encouraging that you guys can have an argument and he doesn't flee. You must have worked your way past his wall a little bit.

 

We have known each other for about.... 3 years I think? I'd say we've now been seeing each other romantically for about 5 months (though we did have romantic involvement in our past as well, then we spent some time apart).

Yes, he is the monogamous type.

And I agree that it is good that we can fight and he can panic/get upset a bit and then we can calm down and still work things out. It gets a bit tense... but yes, I feel like baby steps have been made.

 

Nixee, I have seen you post long enough around here to respect your opinions and know that you have incredible insight. I don't say comments flippantly, I promise you.

 

Sometimes, the most difficult answers are the easiest ones.

 

It sounds to me that he expects others to give to him what he needs and not to give what another person needs. It hurts him when others leave him. How has he hurt others? I worry for you because I know that there is a line.

 

I have a friend who seems like an eternal bachelor. He's 30, handsome, he has been a nomad - moving a lot in the past 10 years, and he's not married or in a relationship. But he has had relationships before - and long-term ones at that. IF a man at his age hasn't had one, has run from them, I say it's because there is something he has been unwilling to give up.

 

In not giving up a title, the commitment to not advertise himself as single, according to my male friends - the guy doesn't want to give up his shot to trade up. Crass. Simple. True.

 

Doesn't mean he doesn't care about you. AND it doesn't mean he can't get to that point in the future. I'll go back to my friend. My friend's past long-term girlfriends had to wait a while (6 months, a year) before he committed.

 

The question for you to answer is to think about how long you are willing to wait.

 

Thanks Ms Darcy... I appreciate your comments and this insight.. and I ask myself that often. Well... honestly, when things are good between us I feel like I could wait forever. But, he runs hot and cold sometimes. And then when he shuts down a bit... I start to wonder.. And then that voice in my head reminds me that I'm more committed than he is and I need to keep my guard up, etc etc. ... it is rough. One big balancing act to match his levels of vulnerability. And even though I really do love him and I have a lot of patience, sometimes I'm not sure how long I can wait. I at least need signs of progress.

 

 

 

.... ask yourself why you need it? insecurity? fear? .....

 

i understand and appreciate why people need to hear these things...but i think it's worthwhile as an individual that requires that kind of constant validation to stop and reflect on why that is. the fact that someone can stir such insecurity in me...i'm inclined to be curious about that. it says alot more about me than it does about the other.

 

people who don't commit are decent loveable human beings. they just happen to be on a side of the fence that our culture has deemed 'wrong' because of it's fascination with all things eternal. personally...i'd rather end up with a person who fears commitment than a person who jumps in, guns blazing, for all the wrong reasons.

 

just my thoughts though.

 

Thanks for your thoughts to 90 hour.... well said as always. And I ask myself the same things, which is kinda why I posted this thread. Naturally, we had this fight... so obviously on a base level.. I DO care. Yet logically... I'm not really sure why I do. It is easy for me to call him my boyfriend because I don't fear it - not with him at least. I am comfortable with him and my feelings are in the right place so.. it just naturally came out. I didn't mean it as a threat, and yet.. something about it felt threatening to him. And that confused me.

 

Subsequently, his rejection of it felt like a rejection of ME, hurting me. ... So I guess it does have to be simply fear and insecurity. I think during the heat of our argument at one point I even snapped at him something like, "and you don't even care about me" and he said, "I never said that at all" carefully correcting me... and I had to notice my own fault - that in high emotions in the heat of the moment I was equating the title with caring about me at all, and he wasn't.

[90_hour_sleep]

Subsequently, his rejection of it felt like a rejection of ME, hurting me. ... So I guess it does have to be simply fear and insecurity. I think during the heat of our argument at one point I even snapped at him something like, "and you don't even care about me" and he said, "I never said that at all" carefully correcting me... and I had to notice my own fault - that in high emotions in the heat of the moment I was equating the title with caring about me at all, and he wasn't.

 

that entire exchange speaks volumes to me.

 

sure...the two of you are operating on opposite ends of the spectrum...but it does sound like you're both in this for the right reasons. of course...that's just a vibe...and i'm sure it's subject to criticism. this is strictly an opinion...but i don't think it much matters where the two of you are in relation to each other on paper. the only thing that matters is how you deal with adversity. stay away from defensiveness...and work towards understanding each other.

[90_hour_sleep]

Yeah I hear where you are coming from 90...but at the same time I kind of think, well, if you are going to do something, do it properly. Be all out, or all in. If I'm ambivalent, I owe it to the other person to stay out, and not waste their time... which is kind of where I am at now.

 

glad you mentioned that, bad/mad.

 

of course i see what you're saying. this is such a common dynamic...and it affects alot of different people. so...in those terms...it's not difficult to be compassionate.

 

i question the nature of ambivalence in this case, however. i can see how from a certain perspective...this scenario can speak to that ambivalence. from your perspective for instance (if i'm not being presumptuous). but is the man who doesn't identify with a position of commitment (in conventional terms) deemed ambivalent? probably. to me...ambivalence implies an internal conflict. is he consciously stringing you along? is he even capable of making that assessment? it's not necessarily a premeditated force of will. to be ambivalent is to be conflicted. and that changes the ball game considerably.

 

from my perspective at least.

[Nixee]

Thank you so much for your fantastic posts Shark.... I think you hit the nail on the head, and I actually could swear that you personally know the guy I'm talking about. Or at least some of the things he goes through.

I guess, based on your post, I would have to say my guy is somewhere between unawareness and awareness of his commitment-phobia. Which maybe sounds odd? But even though he is able to openly say to me or others that he has "commitment issues", he almost jokes and laughs it off (humor I would say is his number one defense mechanism) and continues to just say things like "I'm not ready for/in a good place for a relationship" or whatever other slew of excuses is handy (while in my head I'm thinking "gee... exactly what stars and planets have to align JUST right for it to be the exact perfect time for you to be finally ripe and relationship 'ready'?")

 

I'm really glad to hear that you have faced your issues head on and that you are achieving change and breakthroughs... that is fantastic for you and yes, it does give me some peace of mind and hope. Most of all because I see a lot of truth in what you say.

My guy most certainly does have more internal pressure than anything else. I just so often wish I could do anything to help - and that is the hard part.

 

I guess the good bit is that he does see a counselor. However it is more for his low-grade depression and more serious anxiety. I don't know how much he will face his commitment issues head on until he decides it is time to do so.

 

Was there a deciding point/factor that made you seek help? Was there anything your girlfriend was able to do that helped you?

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, he could have written those exact words - that things will change for him - that a flip will switch in his head.

 

If it isn't fear of love or pain or anything like that that can drive the commitment-phobia (and what you say makes sense, because I have witnessed discomfort), would you say you yourself don't fear those things? Or even more, that you are able to feel them with your girlfriend now?

[Nixee]

that entire exchange speaks volumes to me.

 

sure...the two of you are operating on opposite ends of the spectrum...but it does sound like you're both in this for the right reasons. of course...that's just a vibe...and i'm sure it's subject to criticism. this is strictly an opinion...but i don't think it much matters where the two of you are in relation to each other on paper. the only thing that matters is how you deal with adversity. stay away from defensiveness...and work towards understanding each other.

 

Thank you 90... I think we are. Well, really... I know we are. I have no idea what the future holds, but for now I am happy with him.... and I don't take that lightly. I have dated a healthy number of men and I think I've been truly happy with about... maybe.. two of them? Long, heavy sigh.... hah.

 

I try very hard not to be defensive... or pushy. Or overly sensitive.

[mad rabbits]

Sorry for such a run of posts today. I just want to communicate.

 

What really set things off for me was the end of three sequential relationships. (Not the current girlfriend. Things are stable between us.) Basically, the third ex-girlfriend dumped me, explained that she was doing it because I was commitment-phobic, and then enforced the boundary hard. I didn't contest the breakup (I was too hurt) and we haven't communicated since.

 

 

It wasn't even so much that she dumped me. It was that she wouldn't have anything to do with. Like I was diseased or something. She seemed angry and afraid of me. Incredibly painful and utterly humiliating. First time I ever had a girlfriend who told me to go take a long walk off a short dock. She meant it too. Every word.

 

And she was right.

 

That's really interesting, shark. I've been both people in this situation in the past...the avoider or the person seeking something I wasn't getting (intimacy, commitment whatever)

 

There was one guy in particular...I served out the same ending to him, that your ex did to you. I mean I didn't call him out as such like yr ex did, I just walked away away without a backward glance, I wanted nothing to do with him and yes, I felt he was "diseased" and had written him off.

 

It never even occurred to me that he might be hurt or feel humiliated by that. Probably at the time, I did not care. But it's interesting to hear from the other side of the fence... very enlightening.

[SharkFanatic]

You're welcome Nixee! Glad I could provide the information.

 

Was there a deciding point/factor that made you seek help? Was there anything your girlfriend was able to do that helped you?

 

 

Yes, see post #27 on page 3 of this thread.

 

 

If it isn't fear of love or pain or anything like that that can drive the commitment-phobia (and what you say makes sense, because I have witnessed discomfort), would you say you yourself don't fear those things? Or even more, that you are able to feel them with your girlfriend now?

 

It's not fear that fuels my commitment-phobia. It's psychological discomfort. The psychological discomfort starts as soon as the "switch flips", and I don't know how to cope with this discomfort. I suppose that anxiety might also be a good way to describe it. Here's how I think sometimes: if I have anxiety as the result of making a commitment, should I have to take anxiety medication in order to stay in a very structured/committed relationship? Because that's what it would take at this point. As described in my prior posts herein, I'm making progress but I have a ways to go yet.

 

I just so often wish I could do anything to help - and that is the hard part."

"Was there anything your girlfriend was able to do that helped you?"

 

No one but me can do anything about my commitment-phobia.

She was able to not make things worse for me, but she was unable to actually help.

 

I am beginning to suspect that my commitment-phobia is anxiety-based. You know the difference between fear and anxiety, right? Fear is when someone pulls a gun and tries to rob you. Anxiety is when you worry that someone is going to rob you whilst you walk down the street-even if it's not happening. There's a big difference between fear and anxiety, and I think the difference is important. People often talk about fear of intimacy and fear of commitment, but I think the condition is really much more about anxiety than fear.

 

Here are two extremely key points:

 

The difference between fear and anxiety is incredibly important. Fear is transitory; it goes away. Anxiety is very persistent.

 

Situations in the past that produced significant fear (past breakups, bad childhood, emotional trauma) can cause someone to feel anxiety.

 

I think psychologists will some day view commitment-phobia as an anxiety disorder of some kind. I'm not generally an anxious person, but I'm going to ask my counselor and/or maybe a medical doctor for proper anxiety treatment. If your boyfriend is seeing a counselor, perhaps he could ask her about anxiety.

 

Do you know if your boyfriend suffers from anxiety?

 

Also:

 

I think what it comes down to for me is that things associated with emotional attachments (vulnerability/obligations) cause me to feel a fairly constant level of anxiety.

 

With my current set of coping skills, I can manage some amount of anxiety. For example, I can usually manage the anxiety that arises from vulnerability. But then we start adding the anxiety that arises from obligations and I just can't manage it.

 

So, for me it's really a matter of how much I can manage. I'm fortunate in that I can manage vulnerability or I can manage obligations, but I can't manage the anxiety that arises from both at the same time.

 

What are other things associated with emotional attachments in addition to vulnerability and obligations?

[SharkFanatic]

Thanks mad rabbits!

 

I've always been the avoider. Usually situations that feel safe to me (situations without relationship potential) are what I prefer. But to all outward appearances, it would be very easy for me to rationalise myself as being a 'seeker of intimacy', even if I've constructed the situation for the expressed purpose of avoiding commitment.

[mad rabbits]

Thanks mad rabbits!

 

I've always been the avoider. Usually situations that feel safe to me (situations without relationship potential) are what I prefer. But to all outward appearances, it would be very easy for me to rationalise myself as being a 'seeker of intimacy', even if I've constructed the situation for the expressed purpose of avoiding commitment.

 

Yes- exactly! That describes me. I was only the seeker of intimacy in a situation where I had already deliberately excluded it from the equation by choosing someone who would never give it to me anyway.

 

Pretty self defeating behaviour right?

[chitown9]

More fantastic replies and discussion that is giving me a lot to think about....

 

 

We have known each other for about.... 3 years I think? I'd say we've now been seeing each other romantically for about 5 months (though we did have romantic involvement in our past as well, then we spent some time apart).

Yes, he is the monogamous type.

And I agree that it is good that we can fight and he can panic/get upset a bit and then we can calm down and still work things out. It gets a bit tense... but yes, I feel like baby steps have been made.

 

 

 

Thanks Ms Darcy... I appreciate your comments and this insight.. and I ask myself that often. Well... honestly, when things are good between us I feel like I could wait forever. But, he runs hot and cold sometimes. And then when he shuts down a bit... I start to wonder.. And then that voice in my head reminds me that I'm more committed than he is and I need to keep my guard up, etc etc. ... it is rough. One big balancing act to match his levels of vulnerability. And even though I really do love him and I have a lot of patience, sometimes

I'm not sure how long I can wait. I at least need signs of progress.

 

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts to 90 hour.... well said as always. And I ask myself the same things, which is kinda why I posted this thread. Naturally, we had this fight... so obviously on a base level.. I DO care. Yet logically... I'm not really sure why I do. It is easy for me to call him my boyfriend because I don't fear it - not with him at least. I am comfortable with him and my feelings are in the right place so.. it just naturally came out. I didn't mean it as a threat, and yet.. something about it felt threatening to him. And that confused me.

 

Subsequently, his rejection of it felt like a rejection of ME, hurting me. ... So I guess it does have to be simply fear and insecurity. I think during the heat of our argument at one point I even snapped at him something like, "and you don't even care about me" and he said, "I never said that at all" carefully correcting me... and I had to notice my own fault - that in high emotions in the heat of the moment I was equating the title with caring about me at all, and he wasn't.

He needs to be working on his commitment problems with a therapist. Is he doing that? Because if he is not getting professional help I don't think he is going to improve enough to be suffient for you. I say that because you made the statement "I need signs of progress."

 

PS Sorry, I don't know how to extract that one sentence as a quote.

[Nixee]

You're welcome Nixee! Glad I could provide the information.

 

 

 

 

Yes, see post #27 on page 3 of this thread.

 

 

...................

No one but me can do anything about my commitment-phobia.

She was able to not make things worse for me, but she was unable to actually help.

 

....... I think the condition is really much more about anxiety than fear.

 

 

 

Do you know if your boyfriend suffers from anxiety?

 

 

What are other things associated with emotional attachments in addition to vulnerability and obligations?

 

Went back and read that post you mentioned... I can see how that caused you to wake up, though naturally it makes me feel somewhat sad to worry that the one thing I may be able to do for him would be to tell him off or walk away.

I really do feel that he is aware of his issues - just not fully ready or motivated to face them yet. He seems to go through these waves - not just with relationships, but with other aspects of his life that he feels anxious about as well - where he longs to change something and be happier and he looks into it, talks about it, fantasizes about it..... and then falls down mentally and gets overly anxious and talks himself out of it.

 

And yes, he suffers very heavily from anxiety, as well as low grade depression... dysthymia. These are the primary reasons he sees a therapist. His past relationships have not been happy. He has not been treated well and he does not get along with most of his family. He might consider himself the black sheep in his family, however to me he seems like the white sheep... the kind, caring, smartest most educated one who with bad luck is just plagued with all this anxiety. Social anxiety is the worst for him. His self esteem is very poor - even though he is intelligent, attractive, funny and well-mannered. Compliments make him very uncomfortable. Receiving gifts makes him uncomfortable. His thoughts can often be obsessive with little bits of worry. It is always a toss up whether he will agree to go out to a public/social place with me... particularly if someone I know will be there and he might have to meet someone. It depends heavily on how his mood is, and I have had to learn over time that it has nothing to do with ME - it is only anxiety.

 

 

But.... speaking of that... I am actually about to go pick my mom up from the airport since she is coming to visit me for about a week, and he is supposed to have dinner with us while she is here, so I suppose that is nice. I do know he cares. (we have met each others' families before)

[confuseddotcom]

Danger, Will Robinson! I thought the same way about my Ex as you do about your current situation. It ended exactly as descibed in bold above.

[SharkFanatic]

If he clearly suffers from anxiety then I think it's very likely that his commitment-phobia is fueled by anxiety. As ChiTown mentioned, he'll have to address these problems with a counselor. I'm a pretty smart guy, but I simply cannot imagine how I would have been able to resolve some of these issues on my own. I think ChiTown is right, without professional help, it might be a long time before he is able to resolve these issues.

 

And one more thing... you have every right to ask for a commitment. The desire for commitment is normal and healthy. Furthermore, numerous commitments are required for relationships to make forward progress into the areas such as joint finances, home purchases, and child raising.

[tnmom66]

My baby's dad was the same way. He even said one day that he would give me his alarm code, but not a key, because if I had a key to his house, that would mean I was his "girlfriend". He did keep a toothbrush for me in his bathroom, though.

 

Our relationship was really "friends with benefits" and he told me from the start (unlike all his other short term relationships) that he didn't have long term plans for me, but he was very sweet and attentive and monogamous and expected monogamy from me. I met him at a time when I was very sad and lonely (my ex-husband just found a new wife) and I settled for a "temporary" relationship because it was so incredibly satisfying. Problem is, I got pregnant which forced us into a "long term" relationship (co-parenting). While I was pregnant, he said it was okay for me to call him my boyfriend..until he dumped me in the middle of my pregnancy.

 

I suggest that you read "Men Who Can't Love". This man will break your heart eventually, unless you have a heart of stone. I just hope you don't end up bringing a child into the picture with him.

 

I agree with Banal (above).

[SharkFanatic]

Yes- exactly! That describes me. I was only the seeker of intimacy in a situation where I had already deliberately excluded it from the equation by choosing someone who would never give it to me anyway.

 

Pretty self defeating behaviour right?

 

Yes, pretty self-defeating... but then again... when I actually wrote a journal (of my history) during therapy, it exposed a decade of self-defeating behaviour (that was incredibly obvious in hindsight).

 

I wasn't always this way either. As far as I can tell, something changed inside me during my mid-twenties. Hard to say exactly what it was, but something was different. Perhaps it was from the collective weight of the experiences I had from my teen years to my mid-twenties. (A highly formative decade in its own right.) Or maybe my psyche had some hidden landmines. Maybe I'll never know why, although I can admit to being intensely curious. Maybe nothing happened, and this is just how I am.

 

Really, I also wanted to add: I hate making a disease out of commitment-phobia. The only reason that it's a problem *for me* is because I want to have a relationship but I can't seem to stop stumbling over, and being obstructed by, my discomfort. I keep telling myself things like "if only you were in this position in life, then you could do it without feeling anxious" ... except I know that's not true. I'll never been in a position where external circumstances are "perfect", and in any case, the problem comes from inside me, not from the outside.

 

I also didn't settle on commitment-phobia because it was convenient, and I don't really pay attention to a lot of the psycho-babble that tends to surround the subject. For me, commitment-phobia is about managing the state of my relationship(s) and my life in such a way that I don't feel pressured. Of course, trying to construct situations in which I never feel pressured is a totally unrealistic expectation for someone who wants to be in a relationship of any type, including friendships. This phenomena, whatever it is, has obstructed my emotional growth for a large part of my life and I am going to put it to rest.

 

I refer to my condition as commitment-phobia because a lot of the psychological discomfort starts when the subject of commitment comes up As I said in an earlier post, I may simply suffer from some sort of anxiety disorder related to the vulnerability, obligations, and expectatations surrounding a commitment. There are other signs of this in my life, other areas where I strenuously avoid commitment as well, for the exact same reasons.

 

It's entirely possible that I could "stay in a relationship" for years provided there was never any talk of commitment. But that's not a reasonable expectation, especially given the women with whom I've been involved. It's also not reasonable because, at some point, I would like to have a live together, have joint finances, and children. There's no way in hell that I'd engage in any of those without a commitment, so I can see exactly why a commitment is warranted.

 

------------------------------

 

Nixee,

 

I thought of something else after reflecting a bit more this morning. If your boyfriend has anxiety and depressed moods, then he may already be at (or near) his personal redline for giving. Tell him it's okay to stop giving for a few days. Giving doesn't have to be an every day thing. For example, I had three failed (short term) relationships in the past five years. Relationship number three was the worst.

 

I really really really hate to say that reverse psychology is a good idea because it often seems like game playing. But the fact of the matter is that it has worked extremely well on me. I'm not sure my girlfriend intentionally uses reverse psychology on me, but she actively tells me that it's okay to take a break from giving and obligation. This is a large part of why we've made it 8 months. ( My longest relationship in almost 6 years now.) I think this has really helped me start to see that commitment doesn't have to be a constant source of pressure.

 

You seem smart and tough. Not sure how long you're willing to work on this with him, but the best advice I can give you is to assess his sincerity and his drive to address these issues. If you believe he's serious about getting past these issues, then stay and work it out. If you doubt his willingness to work it out, then I would bail as quickly as you can and find someone else. I know you don't want to bail, but you can't use two horses to pull a cart if one of the horses refuses to walk.

[chitown9]

I was trying to remember the name of the book that was recommended to you and the previous poster named it: "Men Who Can't Love". I recommend it to you also, but with one important caveat: this book offers no hope that the man will ever overcome his issue with commitment-phobia. The book suggests that therapy would be beneficial, but the men with this condition simply will not seek therapy. SharkFanatic truly stunned me when heopenly discussed his issue with commitment-phobia, the stages he went through, and what he is doing to remedy the situation. To me, this is truly remarkable and admirable that SharkFanatic took the bull by the horns, so to speak, and is dealing with what he himself views as a problem. I am 64 years old, so I have been involved with a few men with the same issues and even though they knew they had the condition they made no attempt to correct it. I am trying to assist you as best I can with the wisdom I have accumulated over the years.

 

Your boyfriend needs professional help in the form of an analyst to overcome his anxiety and commitment-phobia. The big question is: will he do it? I ask this question because if he does not the relationship will simply die like a vine on a wall. You will simply become worn out with all of the behaviors that you are constantly having to cope with. You will reach the point where you just won't care anymore. You just can't go anywhere in the relationship and you will tire of that. I know because I have been there, done that.

 

 

So, the big question is: how motivated is he to overcome this issue? Will he get assistance from an anayst? I ask this question because this is the only hope for his recovery and your relationship.

[Nixee]

My baby's dad was the same way. He even said one day that he would give me his alarm code, but not a key, because if I had a key to his house, that would mean I was his "girlfriend". He did keep a toothbrush for me in his bathroom, though.

 

 

I have no idea if my guy would give me a key... I honestly wouldn't even think of asking him for that because we just aren't at that point. However he did, completely on his own, buy bath/shower stuff that he keeps at his house for me, which I suppose is similar, and I found cute. Not a huge gesture of commitment by any means, but to me it said, "hey I like you being around and I want you to be comfortable when you are here"

 

 

It's entirely possible that I could "stay in a relationship" for years provided there was never any talk of commitment. But that's not a reasonable expectation, especially given the women with whom I've been involved. It's also not reasonable because, at some point, I would like to have a live together, have joint finances, and children. There's no way in hell that I'd engage in any of those without a commitment, so I can see exactly why a commitment is warranted.

 

------------------------------

 

Nixee,

 

I thought of something else after reflecting a bit more this morning. If your boyfriend has anxiety and depressed moods, then he may already be at (or near) his personal redline for giving. Tell him it's okay to stop giving for a few days. Giving doesn't have to be an every day thing. For example, I had three failed (short term) relationships in the past five years. Relationship number three was the worst.

 

I really really really hate to say that reverse psychology is a good idea because it often seems like game playing. But the fact of the matter is that it has worked extremely well on me. I'm not sure my girlfriend intentionally uses reverse psychology on me, but she actively tells me that it's okay to take a break from giving and obligation. This is a large part of why we've made it 8 months. ( My longest relationship in almost 6 years now.) I think this has really helped me start to see that commitment doesn't have to be a constant source of pressure.

 

You seem smart and tough. Not sure how long you're willing to work on this with him, but the best advice I can give you is to assess his sincerity and his drive to address these issues. If you believe he's serious about getting past these issues, then stay and work it out. If you doubt his willingness to work it out, then I would bail as quickly as you can and find someone else. I know you don't want to bail, but you can't use two horses to pull a cart if one of the horses refuses to walk.

 

The idea of staying in a relationship for a long time as long as commitment isn't mentioned struck me because I often wonder that about him. When this isn't brought up between us things really are fine. They don't escalate much... or at least, they move much sloowwwwwwer than any other relationship might (which I think is why he says he has always felt pressure from past women to do more/feel more/commit more and it has become this vicious cycle to him). But without that pressure he is often fine. Things work and he is content. But is he growing at all? Like you say.... things come up - practical things - money, living together, possibly kids (I think we are both undecided safe to say).

 

I will take your advice about giving to heart. Because you are right about that. He does not receive well at all and he constantly pressures himself to give - more than he has. And I don't mean gifts... I mean emotional giving or doing things, and that means a lot for a person who often feels drained to start with. He is always there for me in a heartbeat to answer a call or text. Last night he had dinner with my mom and I and even though we took him out he was trying to pay. And it does go on and on. I try to tell him how much I appreciate him. I compliment him, and yes.. I do things for him, yet his self esteem is so low that it is hard to get it to sink in - he seems to feel automatically as though he is not deserving. Yet on the flipside.... I know it wears him out.

 

I don't always know how long I'm willing to work on it either, simply because of how draining it can be and because I know I can't be the one to fix him. But.. he is incredibly special to me. I've dated many men who just weren't special, who I didn't feel anything for or who treated me bad. And yes, he has this issue and it is significant, but he is important to me, and it matters.

 

 

Your boyfriend needs professional help in the form of an analyst to overcome his anxiety and commitment-phobia. The big question is: will he do it? I ask this question because if he does not the relationship will simply die like a vine on a wall. You will simply become worn out with all of the behaviors that you are constantly having to cope with. You will reach the point where you just won't care anymore. You just can't go anywhere in the relationship and you will tire of that. I know because I have been there, done that.

 

 

So, the big question is: how motivated is he to overcome this issue? Will he get assistance from an anayst? I ask this question because this is the only hope for his recovery and your relationship.

 

Yes.... big question...

And it is hard to know the answer for sure... I know he says things like "I don't feel ready at this point yet" and he seems to hope for something... some sort of change in his future, but then at the same time he also gets down on himself and worried that things won't change.

 

What is encouraging is that since we have been seeing each other he has started seeing a therapist again (used to see one before, but she moved out of the area), and though at first vehemently opposed to medication help for his depressive symptoms, he has recently begun taking a prescription to try and help him with that. He is still skeptical of course, but he does seem to really have the desire to overcome the things that are holding him back. Whether or not this will apply fully to all of his issues, including the commitment-phobia... I guess time will tell. But I can't help but feel it is all related a bit I guess.

[Dezireey]

I really don't think you have a ‘commitment’ phobe on your hands here. In essence, yes, his words do imply that by not declaring you as his girlfriend he is commitment shy. But his actions are saying otherwise, his actions are saying he is quite happy to be in an exclusive relationship. If this guy calls you, takes you out, stays with you, pays you attention and all the other things you have mentioned, I don’t see how you can call the fact he doesn’t want to call you his girlfriend as being commitment phobic. This is a cop-out, it’s an excuse and (don’t take this harshly) most of your posts include excuses for him on WHY he behaves this way. There is no excuse for leading you along a particular emotional path and refusing to honour your wish to be known / introduced as his girlfriend, it’s quite selfish, childish and unnecessary. To put it simply, if you got married, walked down the aisle in front of family and signed a wedding certificate, is this guy going to say ‘well, actually you are not my wife and we are not married, it just appears to be that way’.

 

Being a regular girlfriend and telling you that you are special to him, spending lots of time with you, is, in itself a form of commitment. In an evolving relationship, men and women are responsible for the knowledge that the attachment of that other person will (usually) grow stronger for you and if you honour that person’s feelings and don’t want a relationship of any kind, then be honest with your actions as well as your words from the start and don’t enter into that kind of arrangement. He is definitely ‘having his cake and eating it’ here, so to speak.

 

I would seriously tell him that he sorts out this problem ASAP as YOU need confirmation that you are important to him and like others have said on here, what message is he giving to you by denying that you are his girlfriend? I would give this guy a good time frame in your head and then say ‘well, we have been dating for 1 year/6months (whatever you can stand) and you still refuse to call me your girlfriend, fair enough, I will now not consider you to be my boyfriend, I will tell all my friends that you are not my boyfriend and I will behave accordingly i.e. I can do as I please, see who I want and be free and single……but you and I can still date, have sex and see each other most days and I will tell you how much I like you? Yeah, sounds good?, great, that will suit both of us’

 

If you do not want to end this, just play him at his own game and declare that he is not your boyfriend and YOU will behave as if he is not. (what are you doing wrong here? he is insulting you by saying you are not worthy of that title, so let him know he also has to earn that title from you) Shoe on the other foot and all that. I had a guy like this once, dated him for a year and behind my back he addressed me as his ‘friend with benefits, his F buddy, the girl he is casually dating etc etc’ He refused to acknowledge that we were a couple. Eventually, frustrated and depressed, I just gave up and told him that yeah, no problem, he was my f buddy but that I had to cancel our date on Saturday because I had another date with another man. He hit the roof! Even saying I was cheating on him! It was then that I told him where he could shove his imaginary relationship as according to him we weren’t a couple anyway!

[Tresha]

If you enjoy his company, I see no reason to not continue to enjoy it if you can do so without becoming too attached. If he is not committed, don't commit yourself. Date others. Do not commit to anyone who will not commit to you. One sided always hurts.