Another straw on the "To Formula of Not" debate...

[Seraphim]

Any way another ring around the rosy discussion that goes no place.

 

But if ever anyone makes you feel like crap for a life decision because your life decision makes them uncomfortable or they find it "gross" or not "common courtesy" which is subjective anyway, think about how it makes you feel.

[lostnscared]

How are breasts considered private parts? As for as I'm concerned(or at least what I was told) a vagina and a penis(sorry to be crude) are private areas. Boobies are boobies. That is what I was taught as a kid. I never EVER have referred to my breasts as private parts. When someone references to a private "part"(and it's usually little kids who still use that term) they are typically talking about what is below our waist. When I was kid we called boobs, boobs and our vaginas private parts.

 

Men and women both have nipples--so again I don't really agree with your explanation. I think what you probably meant to say is that woman's breasts are often looked at in a sexual manner and are "coveted" where as a man's chest, as sexual as it MAY be, is not as coveted. But I actually think that has less to do with the reason you've suggested and more to do with the fact that we are in a patriarch society. In matriarch societies (for instance certain tribes in Africa) the woman don't wear anything to cover up their breasts and neither do the men. The breasts aren't seen as "sexual" or as something "indecent" to expose. Because US is a society very much catered to men, a woman's body is sacred and is to be covered up. And a lot of people follow that thought(what I consider brainwashing in a way) and that is why most think something is wrong with a woman with breasts exposed but that nothing is wrong with a man with a chest that HAS nipples exposed.. But that is a completely different debate.

 

If a woman accross from you is breast feeding then look down or look to the side, lol. I mean seriously you do have a choice to look in a different direction, no one has a gun to your head yelling at you to look accross from you or else.

 

You don't want to see a child eating and a mom's boob--fine again don't look. I'm sure a mom doesn't care what you think or what you want to see.

[sweetpea03]

But what if that is just your perception of it? What if she is not trying to cause a stir and is just sick of people making her feel crazy for taking care of her child? We don't really know why someone women wouldn't cover up. Yes I would cover up, not because of other people's opinions, but because I myself am very modest and don't want my boobs to be public view. But who know's why another woman doesn't cover up... It isn't really my business as long as she isn't harming me, or trying to be intentionally sexual with it.

 

It's "harming" the general public since it is indecent exposure. We don't want to see other people's "privates", so it would be nice for people to keep covered. Just like a man can't expose himself to pee in public, a breast feeding woman should not be allowed to expose herself in public to feed her baby. She can feed her baby anywhere, she just should keep herself covered. It's a very simple act.

[Lonewing]

See, I'm kinda over the "breast as a sexual organ" in that context, I suppose it's how I grew up - By three I knew what breasts were for, and by five/sixish I knew where babies came from. And I don't mean because someone told me either!!

 

My ex had a lot of wisdom to share on the subect too - the changes that occur in the body around the time of pregnancy is quite amazing, to say the least. Before pregnancy, the nipples are indeed one of the more stimulating sexual organ. After pregnancy, there's a change that occurs in the body that reduces that sensitivity to the point it's no longer a sexual organ at all. Once the baby is weened and the breast go back to their previous state, the sensitivity returns...the wonders of the human body!

 

A lot of boys can go ahead an continue being little boys, but I'm at that matureity where 1) I don't get off by the sight of a breast, 2) I don't get off by the sight of a baby suckling, and 3) I just don't look if it's right there. I mean, she's got a baby crying our ears off, as soon as she opens up and lets down, poof, that baby is quiet - and I'M HAPPY!!!! Exposed or not exposed, it's nothign I HAVEN'T seen before, and I have the good decency to simply and politely look somewhere else. I'm not goingto push oher people around by my ethics, and I can control how other ethics affect me, internally!

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes but were id the line were one person is uncomfortable and the other can do what they want? Yes, i can avert my eyes from an exposed boon but just as easily, that woman can cover up. If we women want the ability to breast feed in public without fear of being thrown out, as we should, there has to be comprimise. In my hometown there wS a law you could not throw or ask a woman breast feeding who was covered up out of a establishment. If she was exposed you could, it was considered indecent exposure. You cant have your cake and eat it to.

 

If breasts aren't a private part, why do we cover them up then?

[Seraphim]

Who is it harming? Are you scarred for life?

[lostnscared]

Yes but were id the line were one person is uncomfortable and the other can do what they want? Yes, i can avert my eyes from an exposed boon but just as easily, that woman can cover up. If we women want the ability to breast feed in public without fear of being thrown out, as we should, there has to be comprimise. In my hometown there wS a law you could not throw or ask a woman breast feeding who was covered up out of a establishment. If she was exposed you could, it was considered indecent exposure. You cant have your cake and eat it to.

 

If breasts aren't a private part, why do we cover them up then?

 

I edited that post to point out something--so you can reread it. But in the US(at least) or matter fact western culture the boobs are covered up and seen as private because we live in a male dominated society.

[OptomisticGirl]

The peopke who advocaye people can look away surely can agree it can be JUST as easy for the woman to cover herself.

[Fudgie]

It doesn't matter what I feel about boobs. The truth is, MANY people consider them private parts. It is irrelevant what you feel about them. You cover them because you don't want to cause unnecessary discomfort.

 

Victoria,

 

I've been bashed for my life choices. My dear boyfriend of 2 years is 38 years my senior. People find it "gross". Do you know what I do? I go out and live my life. I, however, don't kiss him in public because I don't want attention and I understand some are uncomfortable. You may want to go shirtless and I may want to act like a couple with my boyfriend but there are societal norms. I figure, I am not losing too much by just keeping kissing private so I do that, for my sake and others' sakes.

 

All I'm asking is that people cover. Those who still bash you when you're covered are idiots. Don't attack me because I would not bash you if you were covered. Take issue with those that do.

[sweetpea03]

Were you not taught to cover your chest as a girl? I'm pretty sure breasts are still private, as considered by the vast majority of the population. Hence why women don't walk around topless in public, but men can and do. There is a big difference between a man and woman's chest. Women have 2 "private parts" while men only have one. Ask any child that, and they can tell you.

 

I don't feel like I should need to have to look away because a woman accross from me is being rude and not covering herself. Then she will get angry at me for not looking towards her and say something about that. I really would not be able to 'win' in that situation.

 

I would hope people are respectful enough to have some common courtesy. I don't want to see your breasts, so keep them covered.

[Seraphim]

I am not attacking anyone.....I am saying let people live their life. Why does everyone feel they have some inane right to comment on what people chose to do?

[OptomisticGirl]

aanandand vvivieviewview tthem aasas private. IItItsIt's tththethe wa

[lostnscared]

The MANY people who consider boobs private parts are those within the western culture. And actually it does matter how I feel about breasts, because that really has a lot to do with how I will perceive and interpret breast feeding. Apparently it seems like most people are uncomfortable with unexposed breast feeding because they view breasts as sexual parts. So the way you feel is very indicative of how you will perceive the act(it seems). I don't view boobs as private parts. And since I don't allow other people to project their standards and expectations(about their own lives, their own breasts, amongst other things) then I guess I wouldn't care about making some people uncomfortable. People will always be uncomfortable--even if you do the right thing.

[lostnscared]

Were you not taught to cover your chest as a girl? I'm pretty sure breasts are still private, as considered by the vast majority of the population. Hence why women don't walk around topless in public, but men can and do. There is a big difference between a man and woman's chest. Women have 2 "private parts" while men only have one. Ask any child that, and they can tell you.

 

I don't feel like I should need to have to look away because a woman accross from me is being rude and not covering herself. Then she will get angry at me for not looking towards her and say something about that. I really would not be able to 'win' in that situation.

 

I would hope people are respectful enough to have some common courtesy. I don't want to see your breasts, so keep them covered.

 

I re-edited the post. But You DO realize that in other cultures, specifically matriarch societies the woman walk around without shirts on, just like the men do(for instance there are tribes in Africa where this is the case). Their breast aren't seen as private. It's in patriarch societys(like the USA for instance) that perpetuates the belief that a woman's breasts are somehow more sexual than a man's chest--even though both have nipples. So unfortunately the perception of private parts isn't universal, but probably more cultural than anything. And I believe that most people in this country would be uncomfortable because the way society has seen and continues to see women. Even when she is simply feeding her child, she is still seen as a sexual being. Very interesting, that other women feel that way. Since I have breasts, seeing another won't hurt me.

 

Actually I can ask a child that, and they will refer to their boobs as their boobs, and their private part(the area below their waist) as their private part.

 

My point is that obviously that woman doesn't care if you don't want to see her breast and why should she? Who are you? That is the point. You don't want to see it, then fine, but if she doesn't care about what you want, she'll do what she wants instead. Which thankfully is a great thing(not about the breast issue) but about society as a whole. There are so many different kinds of people, with different lifestyles, wants, and needs. We simply can't appeal to everyone, now can we?

[Seraphim]

How am I attacking you by disagreeing with you? I never said a word about your life choices. So I do not see how I am attacking you.

[lostnscared]

I am not attacking anyone.....I am saying let people live their life. Why does everyone feel they have some inane right to comment on what people chose to do?

 

People like to project their own standards and expectations for THEIR OWN lives onto others, and many don't realize it. Because they think it's gross, they expect everyone else to have that same belief and operate under the same "standards" as they would. Almost like "Hey I'm like this--so you be like this too, or else you'll make me uncomfortable and that's NOT right and therefore your view is wrong". It's sad.

The funny thing is that if I breast feed I WILL cover up, but I don't condemn or project my own feelings on that matter to those women who choose not to cover up. A lot of people (for some reason) aren't capable of separating their own feelings and expectations for their OWN lives from the way other people may feel and how those other people operate.

[sweetpea03]

We live by societal norms. Things that we see as "right" and "wrong" and we also have a thing called common courtesy. Every woman and girl is taught to cover her chest, because they are considered private. Very few people do not consider breasts private, which is why so many women cover themselves.

 

I don't do things in public that others may find offensive/uncomfortable to them, so I would hope that others have the same respect for me and all other people.

[OptomisticGirl]

We have laws for a reason. Breast feeding women can't expect to be able to b4east feed in public and expose themselves. There has to be a compromise. I will fully support the movement that it shoukd be unlawful to kick a woman brest feeding out if she is covered up.

[Seraphim]

People like to project their own standards and expectations for THEIR OWN lives onto others, and many don't realize it. Because they think it's gross, they expect everyone else to have that same belief and operate under the same "standards" as they would. Almost like "Hey I'm like this--so you be like this too, or else you'll make me uncomfortable and that's NOT right and therefore your view is wrong". It's sad.

The funny thing is that if I breast feed I WILL cover up, but I don't condemn or project my own feelings on that matter to those women who choose not to cover up.

 

That is what I am saying too. Sad, but it is society I guess.

[Seraphim]

You can not apply your laws to every country. Not everyone is American with American laws.

 

Where I live it is LEGAL to go topless for women.

[OptomisticGirl]

But is an exposed breast feeding woman NOT pushing her own views on those arou-d her? Is she not saying I'm doing a natural thing, live with it or move on? You cant advocate ppl push views on each other when that simple act itself is doing it. I have to advert my eyes because SHE feels the right to expose herself. How is that not imposing her view on Mr?

[Fudgie]

As I said, how you feel about breasts is irrelevant. It shouldn't change your choice to be considerate. All that matters if that YOU know some people will get offended.

 

Yes, people in our culture will get offended and yes, everyone should cover up so that they don't cause unnecessary discomfort.

 

I guess I just find it rude that people are willing to make other people uncomfortable and not cover just to "make a point". Well, guess what...if public breastfeeding gets banned or more discouraged, you'll have the women who like to expose themselves to thank. They are ruining it for everyone.

[lostnscared]

We live by societal norms. Things that we see as "right" and "wrong" and we also have a thing called common courtesy. Every woman and girl is taught to cover her chest, because they are considered private. Very few people do not consider breasts private, which is why so many women cover themselves.

 

I don't do things in public that others may find offensive/uncomfortable to them, so I would hope that others have the same respect for me and all other people.

 

Again your operating under the assumption that your "standards" appeal to everyone else and SHOULD appeal to everyone else, and they don't. A woman may not care if it makes you uncomfortable--and she shouldn't.

 

People will always be uncomfortable--even if someone is clothed.

[Lonewing]

I edited that post to point out something--so you can reread it. But in the US(at least) or matter fact western culture the boobs are covered up and seen as private because we live in a male dominated society.

 

I'm beginning to believe more and more that it is women who use this defense more often when it is they themselves who are uncomfrotable with something, but it is so much easier to simply blame the male for our decency standards.

 

I'm pretty good at shaking my head about anything I find "out of line" and going about my life! Me personally, I'd rather see 100 women walk down the sidewalk half nude [ok, so some might be "scarring" and some might be a little too stimulating, visually] than even so much as hear about a single drunk driver.

[lostnscared]

But is an exposed breast feeding woman NOT pushing her own views on those arou-d her? Is she not saying I'm doing a natural thing, live with it or move on? You cant advocate ppl push views on each other when that simple act itself is doing it. I have to advert my eyes because SHE feels the right to expose herself. How is that not imposing her view on Mr?

 

How is she imposing her views on you, by breastfeeding her child and not paying attention to you? If you look at her, that is your issue. And how do you know she is saying "I'm doing the natural thing, live with it or move on?" What if she is simply saying "I am feeding my child, please understand".

 

The act itself is doing nothing, unless people interpret it as something. And you don't have to avert your eyes, you have that choice--to look or not look. You aren't forced to do anything. Everything in life is a choice. Just like a woman CAN choose whether or not she wants to cover up. You can choose whether or not you want to look. You can also choose the way in which you'll interpret the act.