How is it possible to have a big family in 2010?

[OptomisticGirl]

Exaclty. Up until I went to school to try for a nursing degree, all my college was paid for through financial aide. I decided to do an online course and financial aide didn't cover it all and wham, I took out a student loan I'm now stuck with for 10 years. Grrrr. It's also one of those things you don't know what can happen in life. You could be making $60,000 when you have a child and by the time they turn 18, you could be unemployed or at lesser job! Wanting a career and everything before kids is fine, there is absoultely nothing wrong with that. For some (like myself) it's just not something I feel I NEED in order to be a good mother, nor is making x amount for my kid's college career when they are still in diapers.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree 100%. I think in the UK you have to pay back all aide given to you, and if we can do it, I would be more than happy to help with SOME of that, but I don't think it's going to kill a child to shoulder that burden either. The most my mother helped me with was me putting my step dad's income on my FASFA (all she could do). Everything else was up to me and it didn't kill me, if anything it showed me I had to work hard in the work force in order to make it through anything (even if I"m not in school any more). I can see where some people would say having on one or two children can guarantee you can pay both of their ways through college but like us, since we want a large family, we can easily have the number of kids we want and (barring finances) pay a small bit to each child and let them learn the value of paying for their own education. At some point you have to draw the line between just handing them an education and them working for it. The few kids whose parents DID pay for their ride, didn't take school seriously becuase, well, it wasn't their money paying for it.

[petite]

lostnscared, the world is changing, and so are people if we keep ignoring it and saying "well it wasn't like that back in my day" it wont change how it is here. And an FYI, even back in the day of our parents, many parents paid for their child's education.

 

It is possible to cut corners, but it's also selfish to have too many children if the parents can't even afford to give them necessities and luxuries. Things are different and iPods, cell phones and gadgets do count, they do matter and pretending they don't wont make them go away.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to give my child every single little thing they wanted, but I also wouldn't have 3 children if I couldn't provide them with a good home, necessities and some luxuries; even gadgets. I would rather have 1 child who I can provide a good comfortable home for, than 3 who have to worry about whether they can attend a University, where they will live and how much they will be owning in loans after graduation.

[OptomisticGirl]

While I agree on not having a large family unless you CAN support them, kids don't NEED gadgets and everything. I got my first cell phone at 18! I knew kids who had had one since they were 12. No, thank you, my 12 year old child will not have a cell phone nor will I just hand my 16 year old child a car. If they want it, if it's something they don't NEED, they can learn the value of a dollar themselves and I'll help them get it. No one helped me get my first car, my first place, or anything, and I didn't turn out unstable (much Same with college. If my child decides to go to college: great. Wonderful, I will support them emotionally 100% but there comes a time when a child needs to learn mummy and daddy aren't always going to be there for them.

[petite]

While I agree on not having a large family unless you CAN support them, kids don't NEED gadgets and everything. I got my first cell phone at 18! I knew kids who had had one since they were 12. No, thank you, my 12 year old child will not have a cell phone nor will I just hand my 16 year old child a car. If they want it, if it's something they don't NEED, they can learn the value of a dollar themselves and I'll help them get it. No one helped me get my first car, my first place, or anything, and I didn't turn out unstable (much Same with college. If my child decides to go to college: great. Wonderful, I will support them emotionally 100% but there comes a time when a child needs to learn mummy and daddy aren't always going to be there for them.

 

We obviously disagree on what children need and what they should be given by the parents. Children can gain work ethic even when parents pay for their education. I know many people who's parents paid for their education and they didn't take it for granted, even a few ENA-ers, myself included and my siblings. In fact, it gave us opportunities to have jobs while in school and have extra curricular activities, because such things do count on applications to certain Universities and in particular careers.

 

As far as luxuries are concerned, we will disagree on that no matter what, because I think a child needs more than just love, care, food and shelter. I do believe that in order to raise a child into a successful adult we need to give them more than just necessities.

[lostnscared]

I did state that things are different now--that having an education is crucial. I don't disagree with you--things are different. But that doesn't change the fact that a child has always done decent when they had the things that they NEEDED which included shelter, food, love, water, and the rest of the "basics"--a college education was not a criteria included in that list, and doesn't necessarily "need to be" if the parent doesn't feel that it's necessary. That is where, I believe, values come into play. Not every parent feels that they need to pay for the child's entire tuition in order to feel "qualified" to have a child. I believe that should be up to the parent, in how thy choose to allocate their funds. As long as the child is getting SOME of their education paid for, that is better than them having to foot the bills themselves. And there are several ways funds can be allocated that don't necessarily mean the parent has to pay for the entire tuition.

 

I agree it is selfish to have children you can't afford. But "cutting corners" doesn't mean that you can't afford children, it means you allocate your funds in ways that SAVE you and the child money and also helps you in having more if you want more. Cutting corners certainly doesn't mean, one is broke or poor or can't afford a child. A child doesn't have to have luxuries, though again I did agree that certain intangible things, and even some tangible items would be "needed" in certain circumstances for the child. But that goes along the lines of "values". I would make sure I could give my child what is needed, and SOME of what they want, but there are some things that a child wants that simply isn't needed and won't kill them, harm them, or stunt their growth if they can't have. And I wouldn't be pretending that Ipods, and gadgets don't exist. But more along the lines, of NOT caring that they do, and instilling values in my child that those things are "nice" but aren't needed. I don't think those "gadgets" count either, even though I do have all of them and much more, they have not made me a better person or done anything remotely "countable" within my life that is worthy of me feeling the need to give a child under age 8 these items just to "fit in" with super-spoiled children where parents believe gadgets DO count. That is where we disagree. There's a difference between pretending they don't exist, and acknowledging they exist but not seeing the value in giving a young child THESE gadgets.

 

And in terms of what YOU feel you need-again that is your personal preference. I agree with you BTW--I too wouldn't have children if I didn't have all the necessities, and even some money for luxuries, but where I disagree is on gadgets(sorry I just don't see the value for young a child). And I agree with the latter sentence, BUT for all intent and purposes this is YOUR personal values not everyone elses. Some people don't really see things the way you do. I would never have a child in a situation where they "worry" about college and if they can attend it, but I also wouldn't feel the need to indulge my child in luxuries that aren't what I FEEL are needed to rear them into good, productive, loving, humble adults. Whether that means I have one or three children, ultimately that is up to me and I would NEVER go by others standards or expectations for what THEY FEEL their child needs growing up. I just don't operate by "this person says I need to give my child "x" or else I'm not doing the child any favors"--because really it is my child and it's hard for me to grasp the idea that people feel the need to insert their own "expectations" for what a child should have on to others that don't have the same expectations.

 

So if a person had 8 children, and gave them the necessities, and may not have had enough for luxuries--then it isn't my business to say whether or not they should have had "less" children so that they were able to provide one child with the things that I valued for my children. This is where people just need to sort of do what is best for their families, and not necessarily believe that it's a "one size fits all" scenario. I agree with a lot of what you are saying and operate by a similar mindset(minus again the gadgets counting for young children) but I also understand that not every operates by what you and I, and that a child won't be "harmed" if they don't get certain luxuries or if they have to "foot" some of their education.

[petite]

lostnscared, You're debating with me, and saying that what I am writing are my personal values and opinion, but what you're saying is nothing more than just your opinion and your values. You believe a child needs only basics things and I believe a child needs more than basics.

[lostnscared]

lostnscared, You're debating with me, and saying that what I am writing are my personal values and opinion, but what you're saying is nothing more than just your opinion and your values. You believe a child needs only basics things and I believe a child needs more than basics.

 

I'm not debating with you at all--I'm responding to your post directed at me. As for what I'm writing--well yes I am telling you what I BELIEVE and my personal values. But I'm also saying that not everyone has the same values and beliefs as we do. So yes I disagreed with what you stated, and I'm sure you obviously disagree with me. But I also stated that it's perfectly okay and understandable that everyone does what is good and right for their family and them, and that is why I stated that a parent who had 8 kids who couldn't give them what I FEEL is needed for my three children(so to speak) shouldn't be told that they should have "less kids" simply because they have different beliefs than me about rearing a child.

 

BTW I wasn't stating and never did state that all a child needs are basics. I stated that this is what a child needs first and foremost and everything else is up to the parent. And that past generations had different beliefs about what was needed(to which you commented on). I also stated that I don't believe that a child needs "certain" luxuries(such as gadgets) that is entirely different from me saying that a child only needs basics and that's it. Certain luxuries are important to ME for a child to have, but doesn't necessarily mean that a person that can't give their child those luxuries shouldn't have a child. That is precisely my point. That not everyone operates under the same belief system, or rears their child the same. So cutting corners or not cutting corners, not paying for education or paying for education, having children in your twenties versus having children in your thirites and having 1 child versus having several children is ultimately up to that person and if they can afford to do things in a way that mirrors their values and beliefs, that is all that matters. I think we all can agree on that, even if we disagree with what a child needs to be reared into decent adults.

[OptomisticGirl]

Of course childrrn need more than the basics, but if not having everything I wanted didn't kill me, its not hoing to kill my kids. We will always try to give them what they want but if we can't its not the end of the world.

[lostnscared]

Of course childrrn need more than the basics, but if not having everything I wanted didn't kill me, its not hoing to kill my kids. We will always try to give them what they want but if we can't its not the end of the world.

 

I agree. Up until I was 12--all we had were the basics and some luxuries. When I turned 12 and up until I was 18 we had several luxuries. In both circumstances I'd say I functioned well in both respects. When I was younger and didn't have all the luxuries, though, ironically me and my family were a lot closer, and my parents marriage was in a better place. Millions of kids grow up with just the "basics" and turn out fine. Millions of kids grow up with tons of luxuries and turn out fine. There are kids that grow up with basics that don't(such as the kids that saywhen has talked about) and millions of kids that grow up with luxuries can turn out to be like Paris Hilton. Again there is really no evidence that buying a child an Ipod or paying for their entire college tuition makes them a better adult than a parent that didn't give their a child an ipod and only paid for 2/3 of their child's education.

[petite]

That much was obvious without the lengthy reply, though.

 

As far as post generations go, I think we aren't really equipped to discuss the past, if we were not around as adults then.

[lostnscared]

That much was obvious without the lengthy reply, though.

 

As far as post generations go, I think we aren't really equipped to discuss the past, if we were not around as adults then.

 

Lengthy or not lengthy--it didn't seem as though you had grasped what I was saying so I felt the need to say what I said over again. My point remains the same in both of the posts I made.

 

In terms of past generations, I do feel pretty equipped to talk about it, since I have parents and family in past generations who have told me about their own decisions and criteria that was very much "standard" when they were having kids, as well as the numerous studies and findings that I've had to do research on about baby boomers when I was in college. You may not feel equipped to, but I can certainly give my opinion on that matters(even if they aren't as accurate as you may think they should be).

[petite]

Lengthy or not lengthy--it didn't seem as though you had grasped what I was saying so I felt the need to say what I said over again. My point remains the same in both of the posts I made.

 

In terms of past generations, I do feel pretty equipped to talk about it, since I have parents and family in past generations who have told me about their own decisions and criteria that was very much "standard" when they were having kids, as well as the numerous studies and findings that I've had to do research on about baby boomers when I was in college. You may not feel equipped to, but I can certainly give my opinion on that matters(even if they aren't as accurate as you may think they should be).

 

I still feel you didn't exactly get what I was saying. As far as generations, I stand by what I said. We can all give opinions, we can all reads magazines, and research particular things, but it still doesn't make us equipped to know what some people went through at a time when we were not even born. Having not been around in those times, everything else is just information handed to us, not really our own experiences.

 

Back to the topic, it is possible to have a big family, but not necessarily one which will have more than basic needs.

[lostnscared]

I still feel you didn't exactly get what I was saying. As far as generations, I stand by what I said. We can all give opinions, we can all reads magazines, and research particular things, but it still doesn't make us equipped to know what some people went through at a time when we were not even born. Having not been around in those times, everything else is just information handed to us, not really our own experiences.

 

Back to the topic, it is possible to have a big family, but not necessarily one which will have more than basic needs.

 

And I feel as though you didn't understand what I was saying either(the reason I felt I had to repeat myself)-so I believe we both just don't understand each other or at least not enough to stop going in circles. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about a lot of things in the context of this thread.

 

Though I do agree with the latter sentence--in terms of families that have more than 3 or 4 children.

[petite]

The world would be far less interesting if everyone agreed on everything.

[Lamour detruit]

I think when it comes to children, many *are* selfish. I hear a lot of "oh, but I want a child so much" even when they are not in a position to have one. I think it is entirely possible to have a nice big family, however it has to come with patience and at the right time. Love is the most important thing when having a child, but one has to consider what else they can offer their children as well.

 

This is why I don't think 20-25 is a good age to have children. People are still in college, or they are just starting up their career. In order to not let kids get away of their dreams, and in order to establish a career with enough money put away, it takes a little time to build up. Once that has happened, they have a little more breathing room. Kids are a lot more costly than most imagine, and it doesn't just stop at a young age, especially if you wish to help them out with school / college as well. Take care of yourself first, then get yourself a nice family.

[OptomisticGirl]

Unless your like me and I have no desire to put school over motherhood.25 isn't a magical number that you suddenly become indowed with abilities.

[lostnscared]

I agree with you, but with the age thing I think that depends. I know I wouldn't be ready to have kids before 25 and I don't plan on having kids before 25. Heck, I won't be done with graduate studies until I'm 25(let alone starting a career) But I know there are others who were established before that age and did fine. I agree that building wealth takes time, as does building a family and getting established. But that "time" varies for everyone. I don't think 25 or even 30 is a magical number. Sure the older you are, the more likely you are stable, wiser, more mature, etc. But that doesn't take away from the fact that there are several people that were ready before you or I will be. I do think though, that if you want more than 3 children, and you are a woman, that you probably should start before your 30 for fertility and "spacing" purposes.

[Lamour detruit]

You guys are putting too much emphasis on the number 25. I was merely using a timeframe of which a lot of people are still in college and or just starting their career. There are exceptions, and some will be able to handle it, however for most, it is too young.

 

For some of the same reasons I also think it's too young to get married.

[lostnscared]

You guys are putting too much emphasis on the number 25. I was merely using a timeframe of which a lot of people are still in college and or just starting their career. There are exceptions, and some will be able to handle it, however for most, it is too young.

 

For some of the same reasons I also think it's too young to get married.

 

 

I agree with you on that. Most(not all) are not equipped to have a child young or marry young. I'm included in that lol.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I agree with posters that say the needs of today's children are changing.

 

While people of older generations did not have cell phones or computers, professors will assume that you have them today and it is one relentless pain in the butt to try and go through highschool (or middle school!) without one. My high school wouldn't allow anyone to use the office phone and our old pay phone hadn't been in operation for years. Teachers and coaches could cancel things last minute because they assumed everyone could call home for a ride. And teachers would email you things whether you had access to a computer or not. Our schools and lifestyles have made these things necessities of functioning. I went through high school without a cell phone, and let me tell you, being the last person picked up for EVERYTHING was not a fun time. Teachers and coaches no longer care to give accurate leaving times as they assume people will just call their parents when it's all over. I spent most of my after school activities waiting, sometimes hours, for my ride to finally get there because I couldn't contact home. People don't give directions because they assume you'll call them on the way. We've made it a necessity.

 

Same with college. While the older generations did not need college or secondary education, this generation very much requires it. It's not something I agree with but not completing college now is like not completing a high school degree in the late 70's. We've made it a need, unfortunately.

 

We've gotten a little off topic but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in about this as well.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Unless your like me and I have no desire to put school over motherhood.25 isn't a magical number that you suddenly become indowed with abilities.

 

It is for most people. I shudder to think the kind of mothers my acquaintances would have been in their early 20's.

 

You CAN be ready at 25 but most won't be (usually by choice). Don't worry, OG, no one is judging you (or at least, I'm not and no one should be).

 

Unfortunately a lot of people do not become adults until they have to, and even then they'll fight it.

[lostnscared]

I think having a cell phone for a child over the age of 9 is fine. If I had a child I would give them a cheap prepaid phone(LOL). I agree with you about education as well--it's a necessity and I think most parents should at least try to pay some of it(if they can't pay all of it). I just think ipods, and other gadgets just aren't so necessary until a child gets to certain ages where they can buy it themselves.

 

I've already said in other threads my opinions on college, the value of it, and how I would allocate the costs for it--but I believe that you and petite are right that education is more needed now than what it used to be. I think the difference now that I'm noticing is that people believe that it is a parents job to pay an entire tuition--which I PERSONALLY don't agree with. I think that a good parent *should* and *would* offset the costs of their childs education(if they can afford to) but I think "how much" is very much dependent on that parent and the child.

[lostnscared]

It is for most people. I shudder to think the kind of mothers my acquaintances would have been in their early 20's.

 

You CAN be ready at 25 but most won't be (usually by choice). Don't worry, OG, no one is judging you (or at least, I'm not and no one should be).

 

Unfortunately a lot of people do not become adults until they have to, and even then they'll fight it.

 

I shudder when I look at many of my friends who HAVE kids and are under 25. It scares me when I think about how the kids will turn out. I shudder when I think about what would happen if by some circumstance I was pregnant right now at 23. I know I would not be ready to have children before 25 or at 25. Kuddos to those who are. I love being child-free, and irresponsible right now and making selfish decisions.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I shudder when I look at many of my friends who HAVE kids and are under 25. It scares me when I think about how the kids will turn out. I shudder when I think about what would happen if by some circumstance I was pregnant right now at 23. I know I would not be ready to have children before 25 or at 25. Kuddos to those who are. I love being child-free, and irresponsible right now and making selfish decisions.

 

I feel the same. I'm not ready. I could be if I wanted to (or had to) but I don't plan on that for a while. Nothing but praise for those that own up to their responsibility and are great parents who do not excuse themselves because of age. It's a hard job that I look forward to someday. Not today but someday.