How is it possible to have a big family in 2010?

[lostnscared]

there is a massive difference in adopting 3-4 vs having 3-4. this is mathematics 101. lets call it 4. 4 kids need adopting. you have 4 kids. the 4 kids still need adopting. now there is 8 kids in world. 4 without homes and 4 with homes.

 

imo, 4 is too much. its like the same thing as global warming. people ignore the problem until its a damn crises. look at china. their finally acting responsible. 2 child limit. and now i think they want to make it 1.

 

i say again. think reasonably about this. overcrowding is obvious. WE ARE NOT RATS OR RABBITS

 

of course you can have your own children, but why need more than 1 or 2. then adopt...

 

It would be a bigger issue if MORE people within the united states were having more than 3 children, but families are actually decreasing the amount of children they have. The average amount of children one has is "2" these days. Outliers are typically the ones having more children, but the percentage of those people having more children, is such a small percentage, that in many ways it slightly offsets the 2 child per house average. If 60% of families are having less than 3 children, 20% having 3 children, and the other 20% having more than 3 children, it rounds out(this is just me throwing out numbers). But MOST people are not having a significant amount of children. So for those "select" individuals that do, it certainly won't "harm" us anymore than we already are harming ourselves by doing the various other "risky" and "greedy" things we do. I do agree that MORE people should adopt if they can afford to adopt (adopting isn't inexpensive either). But I also wouldn't tell someone who WANTS to have their own children, that they need to adopt--just to satisfy people who are concerned about population.

[JohnTheMan]

So what you saying is, if all of you reduce waste and help cleanup the environment, i can litter all i want? of course, as long as all of you are still making a difference that counters my waste and some...

[civilservant]

not so black and white. but, i was responding to SayWhen's comment. its a very general statement that is obviously worthy of a thesis. but simply, i would argue that overpopulation is a problem in areas of lower education quality.

 

Thats actually a very obvious statement. The highest birthrates traditionally come from the areas of higher economic depravity, economic depravitry means less money to educate, less educate (perhaps around controception) lrads to a higher birthrate and the cycles starts all over again.

 

Hey why dont we just adopt the Chinese policies of the late 80s and start using formaldihide (sp) needles in the head of a 2nd child. Thatd solve the over crowding. Extreme? Obviously. But it'll solve the problem you speak of.

[newwave]

Regarding the adoption issue, unfortunately biologically you won't have the bond with adopted kids that you would with kids you give birth to. Is it wrong to say? Of course and in time one would hope there would be a bond. Of course I know people who never bonded with their natural kids either. This is why people spend money on birth procedures instead of adopting. However I would guess that the bond can get just as strong as time goes by.

[lostnscared]

Actually studies have shown that individuals who earn higher levels of education are far less likely to have children in general.

 

Yes because these same "said" people are typically devoted to their careers and/or wait until they are older to have children at which their ability to have more than one child is much more difficult and time sensitive. Educated people tend to not get married later, have children later, and are more career-orientated as well. Matter of fact I believe I had posted an article about this a month ago, where the article essentially stated that the educated people are the ones waiting and postponing have children and who are typically more developed in their career that by the time they do have children they end up having less by circumstance--not always by choice. Though I'm sure it is a choice for some. There are educated people having more than 2 or 3 children, the blogger went to UCLA and graduated, as did her husband and they had 7 children. My parents were educated when they had four children. I do believe education has correlation to the amount of kids you have--but not in the direction that I'm assuming your going in(the more intelligent you are the less kids you have).

[OptomisticGirl]

Regarding the adoption issue, unfortunately biologically you won't have the bond with adopted kids that you would with kids you give birth to. Is it wrong to say? Of course and in time one would hope there would be a bond. Of course I know people who never bonded with their natural kids either. This is why people spend money on birth procedures instead of adopting. However I would guess that the bond can get just as strong as time goes by.

 

I agree. I'm sure if we had to adopt we would bond with that child, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to have that bond with (hopefully) all our own children.

[JohnTheMan]

Thats actually a very obvious statement. The highest birthrates traditionally come from the areas of higher economic depravity, economic depravitry means less money to educate, less educate (perhaps around controception) lrads to a higher birthrate and the cycles starts all over again.

 

Hey why dont we just adopt the Chinese policies of the late 80s and start using formaldihide (sp) needles in the head of a 2nd child. Thatd solve the over crowding. Extreme? Obviously. But it'll solve the problem you speak of.

 

now you simply putting words in my mouth. thats not fair.

[lostnscared]

So what you saying is, if all of you reduce waste and help cleanup the environment, i can litter all i want? of course, as long as all of you are still making a difference that counters my waste and some...

 

No I'm not saying that and I think you know that. What I'm saying in so many words is: mind your own business. And if you can't grasp that, or need to point out some analogy to make a point then don't bother responding.

I don't follow paranoid rants about the population and the environment as reason for why I wouldn't have as many as children as I believe I could afford to have. If you believe that makes me selfish or "stupid" then so be it, but then again I don't allow other people's own "expectations" and "standards" and "fears" to influence my expectations, wants and my own personal goals.

[OptomisticGirl]

now you simply putting words in my mouth. thats not fair.

 

It would solve the over population problem (sarcastically said, of course).

[civilservant]

Its not just about having children though is it? It's the biological imperative of every animal on the planet to continue the species, and more specifally than the species to continue it's own bloodline. Take me, I'm the only male in the family left, if I dont have children they my genes will die with me. As a human being, and an animal, the drive within me to stop that from happening is immense. To have that right denied (by a policy or anything else) is fundementally denying what I am as an animal.

[JohnTheMan]

I agree. I'm sure if we had to adopt we would bond with that child, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to have that bond with (hopefully) all our own children.

 

i absolutely 100% agree. then why do you need that bond with 4?

 

4:2 -> 16:4 -> 256:16

 

thats 3 generations of brilliance for you

[sweetpea03]

Well, maybe some don't think overpopulation is an issue, or unwanted children, that certainly could motivate them to have more children.

 

How about the motivation just being that people love the family bond?? My mom is one of six, and each sibling has at least 2 kids. I LOVE going over to that side of the family. We are all very close and also pretty loud. It's always a fun time. No one in the family depended on assistance or anything, it was done by hard work(blood, sweat, and tears). I can understand why people want a big family. It's a nice thing to be apart of, but it isn't for me.

[civilservant]

now you simply putting words in my mouth. thats not fair.

 

I'm not putting anything in your mouth, I'm simply suggesting a radical 'solution' which would solve the crisis. The thing is John that I dont actually disagree that we need to control the population, of course the resources of the planet will only stretch so far, and in principle I can see the logic in the adoption idea, however as I said in the previous post thats fundementally denying what the animal that is homo sapiens actually is.

[OptomisticGirl]

i absolutely 100% agree. then why do you need that bond with 4?

 

4:2 -> 16:4 -> 256:16

 

thats 3 generations of brilliance for you

 

Because I want 4. No other reason. Why do people only attract to certain other people? Because they want to, it's who they are.

[lostnscared]

I think this is obviously just a values struggle. Some individuals believe in the replacement rate and believe it is responsible to have no more than two for many reasons, and others want large families for various reasons and are very firm in that "right" to have a large family. I have a right as well as a childless person to say that I believe it's irresponsible for families to have more than two children, unless that family grows through adoption. It's not just about unwanted children. It's about our planet, and the fact that we are overshooting the replacement rate. It's not about what you can afford, but about what is really responsible, but again...it's just about values...

 

No one is saying you DON'T have a right to speak your opinion about the matter. What many of us are saying is that for all intent and purposes we don't really care. It is a matter of values, choices, and beliefs. I won't doubt for a second that you are correct that if EVERYONE had several children the world would suffer. But since that is not the case, and since many people choose not to have more than 3 children, then I'm not too worried about this type of responsibility. Nor do I have an obligation to adopt a child. If I CHOOSE to and value humanity than I CAN make that decision myself. I think that it is great that you are concerned about replacement rates and having "less" children to save the world, and what not, but not all of us care.

[JohnTheMan]

It would solve the over population problem (sarcastically said, of course).

 

no, you being responsible would

 

(not sarcastically)

[SayWhen]

lostandscared...you may not care about our world, because you will only be in it for a lifetime, but your descendants will still inhabit this home...I find it extremely selfish, ignorant and scary to see someone say that "they do not care about replacement rates and the impact of each extra life on the planet.". I hope the efforts of few will help this planet and society stay afloat but it's already crumbling because of sentiments of "not caring."

[sweetpea03]

no, you being responsible would

 

(not sarcastically)

 

The world won't end if a family has more than 2 kids..

[civilservant]

no, you being responsible would

 

(not sarcastically)

 

And thats a personal attack. The issue is interesting, turning it personal isnt.

 

What right do you or anyone else have to determine what is resonpsible? Im sure you indulge in activites we would find "irresponsible" however you dont see us sitting in judgment. The point is this is an individual choice, and 2 children, 4 children or 10 children, as long as they are loved, are in the right place. The problem really becomes if they are a burden on society. Theres a world of differance between wanting and having and if we only have 2 then we'll be happy. Desire is something different.

 

I desire to be able to fly a plane, dosent mean its going to happen.

[newwave]

I worked with many never married 40somethings and they were still planning to have kids, just hadn't gotten around to it. Some were never married as well. In fact the largest increase in births have been to 40-44 year old mothers. I'd assume most of these women were career driven and just weren't able to have kids before then. I will (hopefully) fall into this group because I hadn't been able to afford it yet and haven't met the right guy (or met him and he's not ready). Because women are waiting this late this means less kids in most cases.

[JohnTheMan]

And thats a personal attack. The issue is interesting, turning it personal isnt.

 

What right do you or anyone else have to determine what is resonpsible? Im sure you indulge in activites we would find "irresponsible" however you dont see us sitting in judgment. The point is this is an individual choice, and 2 children, 4 children or 10 children, as long as they are loved, are in the right place. The problem really becomes if they are a burden on society. Theres a world of differance between wanting and having and if we only have 2 then we'll be happy. Desire is something different.

 

I desire to be able to fly a plane, dosent mean its going to happen.

 

that was a rebuttal.

 

the government asses problems and acts accordingly. at this rate, overpopulation is a problem. a global problem. i'm just saying, we can be big about it now before it is severe crises.

[OptomisticGirl]

no, you being responsible would

 

(not sarcastically)

 

Good thing I don't live my life by other people's soap boxes.

 

You want to advacate adoption, good for you. If a couple wants to adopt, more power to them. That does not make me a bad person because I want my genes out in the world multiple times. I come from a large family, and I love that feeling it gives you. I want my kids to experience that.

[civilservant]

that was a rebuttal.

 

You rebut using logic and a reasoned argument, not using the same sarcastic tone only with less sarcasm and more venom.

 

Clase closed.

[OptomisticGirl]

Newwave makes a good point. Women, and couples in general, are waiting until they are older to have children and not having as many because of the risks. We want kids while we are young and therefore have an oppurtunity to have 4.

[JohnTheMan]

then best of luck with that OptimisticGirl. i'm sure your kids will want their children to have that feeling as well.

 

and like i said, i'm not trying to be mean if it comes off that way. i respond with equal to how i'm addressed.