How is it possible to have a big family in 2010?

[petite]

It's low in your book. And this is getting so off topic that this thread has become really pointless. I wouldn't pay 250k for student loans for ONE child.

 

This is where we disagree. I think that having a great education is beneficial, and we need more people with good education. Look at law school or medical school, you can't get an education for under a 150K.

And it is off topic, but you yourself have also gone off topic.

[petite]

This doesn't really matter. The first two years of university is used to get the general courses out of the way. Getting the first two years done at a community college is the same as doing it in a four year school. Same classes, same credits..same degree at the end when you transfer to a four year university. For law and medicine your major of choice doesn't really matter either, as-long as you do it well.

 

Agree with everything else you said though. And yes, the student loans some are taking on are way too high, and some will have to work for a very long time just to pay them off.

 

I don't disagree that community college is okay, I simply think an education at University is more reputable.

[OptomisticGirl]

There is nothing wrong with going to CC first and transferring, as OF said, it gets the course work out of the way. Of course university is better, but CC helps a lot.

[lostnscared]

This is where we disagree. I think that having a great education is beneficial, and we need more people with good education. Look at law school or medical school, you can't get an education for under a 150K.

And it is off topic, but you yourself have also gone off topic.

 

Obviously I've gone off topic which is why I said THE THREAD was off topic. And again we can agree to disagree. My sister is going to UVA for law school and will graduate with 60k in loans. She got a full ride, and is only taking out loans for living expenses. Again it just depends. I think education is beneficial but I don't think paying for a child's med school AND undergrad degree is necessary for an individual. Having a great education is not a right or something a parent NEEDS to provide, rather it's a privilege and up to the person who chooses to take on that path. If they choose a field that is quite expensive, that is their OWN choice. And a parent(IMO) does not have to shoulder the entire cost, to be considered a "good parent" or to be qualified to have a child. Again kuddos to your sister and you, but obviously that just reflects a difference in values and rearing. No one is wrong here. We all have our own ways of doing things. I don't think anything that you've said is off the chart--I just think that obviously you have a different sort of standard for what you believe is beneficial and crucial for a child.

 

250k isn't very much in the grand scheme of things, BUT for most people it is. And by that standard most would not be able to afford children. I think making the decision to pay or not pay for ENTIRE tuition is a personal choice. This much we agree on.

[SayWhen]

Education is extremely important and in this day and age you are almost expected to have a bachelor's degree. I think it is important to try and support your children through college, though it is not necessary in being a "good parent" since a lot of schools cost upwards of $40K and I know few people who can afford that kind of tuition. My parents put my brother through college and it cost them $200,000 but I know few other people who have gotten their parents to pay that much for schooling.

[Lamour detruit]

I don't disagree that community college is okay, I simply think an education at University is more reputable.

 

Except no one cares, even those that hire you..as-long as you do well. If you finish your last two years at a reputable four year university with great grades, there is no difference.

[OptomisticGirl]

I'm going to be the odd ball but while a degree is great, look at the amount of college graduates that have a degree and are working a minimum wage job. Education is important but I don't think its the end all things either. CS didn't go to university and has an amazing job that pays well, and he git it through hard work. I will always support our children in whatever they do though as much ad we can.

[petite]

lostnscared, Again, differences. I would. No one said it was necessary, but it's a luxury that a parent should provide for their child if they can, or at least do as much as they can. Rather than just saying "Well you want it, so go get yourself in a debt that wont allow you to own a car let alone a house".

 

And a 15-20K loan is nothing compared to those who have loans of 200K+ and still going up. There is really a difference between a small loan and a loan that cost as much as someones house.

 

No one said a parent needs to provide their child with an education, but if they want to have a child than give them the best education possible! It would be selfish to not allow the child to have the best possible education and rather crippling, especially if they want to be in a rather highly regarded field.

 

I am actually shocked that you have this opinion, since your parents are so wealthy, one would think you would have a different opinion. But that's a whole other topic.

[petite]

I'm going to be the odd ball but while a degree is great, look at the amount of college graduates that have a degree and are working a minimum wage job. Education is important but I don't think its the end all things either. CS didn't go to university and has an amazing job that pays well, and he git it through hard work.

 

That much is true. My boyfriend started going to one the top University's in Canada thinking he wanted to be in one field, and decided it wasn't for him. He transferred to a college and got a good diploma in a field he enjoys. He has a great salary, but had he wanted to be in a different field it would have gone a lot different. It doesn't make him any less intelligent, but it isn't always that simple.

[mia616]

My former neighbors were both doctors and they had student loans from med school also at about 100k each. Anyway, together they made about 250k which is why they were well able to afford their loan payments. They can now well afford to pay their mortgage- which they also live in a rather nice house- and they have 3 children.

I agree that student loans can be a burdened.... but you can usually get a good job from it also, making good money- so if you're parents cant pay every little cent for some of your education then you will still survive!

[petite]

mia616, education is far more expensive now than it used to be and it will only get worse.

[mia616]

Haha I realize it is more expensive now! I hate it! I wish I lived in Europe where it was free! I graduated 2.5 years ago and have about 55k in debt. Unfortunately my parents were not able to front the whole cost! At least I have a good career! Though I do have to go back for my master's soon.

[Lamour detruit]

mia616, education is far more expensive now than it used to be and it will only get worse.

 

For sure. The expenses that were back in the day are nothing compared to what it is now. Especially if you get in a field such as health-care, or you go for a phd.

[OptomisticGirl]

The fact of the matter is, you don't have to pay for your child's college tuition to have a large family. Anything can happen in the 18 years from when you get pregnant to they are born. Of course starting out, especially with me being a foreign in the UK, CS and I would be at a place that we couldn't afford to pay for our children's education and frankly, I wouldn't want to. HELP them, yes, but I am a firm believer in kids need to experience the real world more before they go out in it. I didn't have anyone to hold my hand through the process and while I will be there to give my kids emotional support and my undying love, I want them to know that mummy and daddy won't always be there. Does that make us bad people because we want a large fmaily and therefore probably won't be able to pay for each child's education? I don't think so.

 

So yes, I do believe people can have large families in 2010 without aide from the government and no, I don't think knowing if you can afford every child's tuition should be a factor in decieding how many children you have.

[lostnscared]

I have this opinion because I am NOT my parents. My dad makes a lot of money, the profession I'm going into will not put me in the same salary(even close to it) that he makes. So I KNOW that I would never have the option to shell out the amount he has to help us all. That is the reality. My "dream career" is one that will probably never really allow me to pay an entire tuition--except for maybe one child. A teacher, social worker, or any other profession that doesn't pay very well would NOT be able to pay for 250k worth of education. I'm grateful and appreciative of my parents, but unfortunately I won't ever make as much as they do. I'm fine with it, and realize that because of that certain luxuries for my children I just won't be able to provide in the capacity that you're describing. i agree that there is a difference between a small loan, and a bigger loan, but MOST people cannot afford a bigger loan. I believe there is such a small percentage of people that could do what your suggesting people do, and I don't think it reflects negatively on them as a parent or means they aren't giving their child the bet education possible. They STILL are attempting to. But like your parents told you to go after the career or field of your dreams, other parents told their kids the same--and many of the same said children may NOT have chosen career fields that will ever pay them enough to shoulder such a huge debt.

Also while this is off topic, since when does an individual have the "exact" same values as their parents do? I agree with many things that my parents did for me and my brother and sisters, but disagree with things as well. I don't have the same values as they do, because I'm my own person.

[lostnscared]

I agree. There are many americans that DID set aside money for their child to go to college-starting from the time the child was born. But within those 18 years, life happened--unemployment, emergencies, underpayment, etc. Things CAN happen. You can have it all, and lose it just as soon. The thousands of unemployed people CAN attest to that. It is those cases, where that criteria(being able to pay for one's education) will obviously fall through. If this economy has showed us anything it's that ANYONE can lose ANYTHING, even if they planned everything appropriately and did everything right. This does not mean that you should not attempt to provide an education for your child, but it does MEAN that banking on this sort of criteria does not guarantee anything or mean your a better parent.

And I don't believe that paying for your education means one is a good parent, or that paying for a child's education should even be a HUGE factor into whether or not someone should have kids. Sure it should be a factor--but there are certainly other more important things to consider.

[OptomisticGirl]

Coming from a wealthy family only means things are handed to you (not saying you were lostnscared, just using sterotype here) whereas a lower class family, you have to work your bum off. Is my opinion based on the class I was raised in? most def. I will not just hand my kids a college education because when you are just handed something, 9 times out of 10, you don't respect it as much if it was coming out of your own pocket. Why be the best you can be when mummy and daddy are going to pay the loans, right? I have never been handed anything in my life, I have always had to work for it. And while my kids will have some luxuries I did not growing up, those luxuries are mostly emotional ones-- a stable family, family vacations, a close family.

 

I was just reminded of something else kids want but don't need: the whole prom thing. My prom dress was $70 from David's Bridal while some girls in my class were going in $300 gowns. While it wasn't something I NEEDED, my mother still found a way for me to have one but at a fraction of what everyone else. was getting.

[lostnscared]

I also wonder, how people expect someone on say a teachers or social workers salary to be able to foot an entire tuition for a child planning to be a doctor? It just isn't always feasible if one doesn't have the income to do so. You have to be reasonably wealthy THESE days to be able to afford an entire college tuition(even for one child). Most people don't make six figures(even those educated) most people have mortgages, bills, and other costs to worry about--asking those people to foot an entire tuition may not be possible. I think this criteria really should be established for those individuals that are in highly paid fields, that CAN afford to--in those cases YES it's reasonable to pay for your child's education. But if your in a field(like the field I'll be going into) then I don't see how it's even feasible to do so. You shoulder what you *can* and that is what I believe is the best you can do. Everything else here really is on the assumption that we all can afford it, and will ever be able to afford it--and that just isn't the case for us all.

[lostnscared]

In my case, getting everything handed to me(when I was older) ended up being crippling for me and MY sisters in a lot of ways. I realized once I left the house that I didn't want my children to be that way. That is why I've changed some of my values regarding finances, careers, and rearing. There are many luxuries that I did have that I will provide for my child(a good HS education, vacations, plays, museums, being able to participate in the sports and activities that they are interested in) but there are certain things that since I KNOW I will not be able to pay on the salary I'll probably have, I won't be able to give my child some of the luxuries I had. Namely college, and even living in a very big home. It could be that because I had most of my college paid for(I took out under 10k in loans to pay for basic living expenses) that I don't know how crippling it is not to have it paid for. On the other hand since many of my friends had to take out loans, and many of them are doing fine despite this, I guess I just don't see how crippling it is, unless one has big career goals(being a doctor, lawyer, or getting their MBA).

[Cognitive_Canine]

I couldn't be the best I could be because my parents couldn't afford it. I had to drop out of my dream college about halfway through because I couldn't make it on my own.

 

This is something I'm pretty bitter about actually.

 

I didn't get anything handed to me either and I couldn't do anything about money, no matter how hard I tried. People say "oh, get scholarships" but I got rewarded nothing even though I had stellar academic performances. I tried loans, I tried scholarships, I tried grants...everything. So, when people say "the kids can handle it", I like to throw my two cents in of 'it's not easy at all. In fact, it's mostly impossible'.

[OptomisticGirl]

I couldn't be the best I could be because my parents couldn't afford it. I had to drop out of my dream college about halfway through because I couldn't make it on my own.

 

This is something I'm pretty bitter about actually.

 

I didn't get anything handed to me either and I couldn't do anything about money, no matter how hard I tried. People say "oh, get scholarships" but I got rewarded nothing even though I had stellar academic performances. I tried loans, I tried scholarships, I tried grants...everything. So, when people say "the kids can handle it", I like to throw my two cents in of 'it's not easy at all. In fact, it's mostly impossible'.

 

I agree in that if parents can afford it they would be crazy not to at least help out. If CS and I can yes, I wouldn't mind helping out with their schooling. But if it's something we can't at the same time, I had no help and until this last semester didn't have to take a loan out. It's one of those things you can plan for but never set in stone.

[newwave]

Agreed. What I don't mention is when I was younger my parents set aside money for me and my brother for college. My dad lost his job several times and they needed that money to survive. I'm sure if they could, my parents would have helped out more for college, but they've been a big believer in "you want it, you work for it". Years ago I wanted to attend law school but couldn't afford $100,000 for the possible payback so I changed my mind.

 

I've had this conversation with the guy I want and he feels strongly the same way so if we have kids we'll help them out but make them pay most of it. He's not a big believer in college, feels the military and job training is best for most people. I have a masters but am $40,000 in debt and it's not helping me jobwise. My brother is in the Army training to be a doctor. Also, since I am older the reality is I'll be retired or close to it by the time my kids go to college so that makes a difference.

[petite]

lostnscared, I didn't say children had to have the same values as their parents do, it was just one of those random thoughts. Perhaps this is where we're different, I think my parents did a fantastic job with their children, given the environment they were exposed to and the hard work which they had to do. I think they are wonderful parents and even better people, and if I can be as they were with us, I'll be one very happy woman.

 

OG, just because some kids come from wealthy families it does not mean they are handed everything on a silver platter. In fact there is a desire to be successful and achieve the things their parents or peers did, because they are brought up a certain way. I can't say that all lower class is trash, just as I wouldn't say all wealthy people have things handed to them.

 

While it can be true that kids who are given every little thing they want can turn into brats, they can be that way no matter how much their parents earn. My parents paid for my education, and my siblings, I know the value of the dollar and I know how it is to work 18 hour days without a break. I urge you to look outside the box and realize that just because someone pays for their child's education it does not mean they are handing everything in life to their kids or that the children wont appreciate it.

[lostnscared]

I think my parents did a good job as well in many respects, but in all honesty I believe it was finances and greed that ended up tearing my family apart(ironically). I'm always very appreciative of my dad really(my mom didn't really make any money, she had no job really, she was a teacher for two years, then she was SAHM for 16 years, then a personal trainer, now a book writer) but I didn't see him very much and for all intent and purposes my mom ended up raising us since I didn't see my dad. Financially me and my agree that he was really good provider, and we got to do SO many things that many of my peers did not do. Those things are the things that I want to give my children plays in downtown chicago once a month, museum trips, shopping when they need it, a family car, being able to participate in piano lessons or even ride a horse if they want--these are the things I was VERY appreciative of. With college it was a different matter. I was forced to go to a 4 year university even when I asked to just do CC for two years than transfer because I didn't feel ready and couldn't make up my mind. I was not allowed to major in the field I wanted to, and instead majored in business and hated it. I was told they were not paying for me to go to school to be: a teacher, nurse, social worker or any other pink collar work. So that is where me and them clashed--and I would NEVER do that to my child.

Anyway, if I KNEW that I would have the money to pay for my child's entire tuition I would do it in the heartbeat, but my career would never pay me the sort of salary that would be able to afford $250k per child for college tuition. I suspect my sister(who is in law school) will pay for her child's education, but that is because she can and will have the money to. If I'm lucky and do end up doing really well in my career then obviously I'll do what I can. I still planning on helping my children as much as possible, but realize that I may not be able to afford to pay their entire tuition. But if I could and was in a financial position to do so, of course I would--I'm sure many people would, but unless you are in a lucrative field OR you have children later in life then it much easier said than done.

 

In regards to getting things handed to you on a silver platter--in my situation that was the case in MANY respects. I don't think my dad did it intentionally but he grew up very poor--so did my mom. They both grew up in the projects and didn't have much. So when they did get money, they did spoil us and gave us the life they never had. I never had to work in HS, but chose to, I quit jobs frequently and still do, my sister didn't have her first job until she was 21, my other sister has never worked before(she is turning 19 this week), everytime I got into any sort of trouble I was bailed out, I was given a credit card at 16, etc, etc. All of these things really did not help me become a good person. and now that I live on my own--it's difficult for me to live realistically. The transition from living with my parents to living on my own was more difficult for me because I felt very enabled and my dad had sheltered us tremendously growing up. I guess that is why maybe for you, it was a different experience. You worked when you were 15, learned the value of dollar, learned to save, learned to have a good work ethic, and the value of hardwork. I learned all of that ON MY OWN. That is where I don't believe my parents did a good job, but I don't think they knew how to teach us that, being the sort of role models and families they came from.

[lostnscared]

I think this is what people don't think about when they make paying for college tuition a criteria to being a good parent. There are PLENTY of americans that aside money for kids to go to college, or for their kids to do all these amazing things, and then life happened. Whether it was unemployment for more than 6 months, or a medical crisis which ended up costing tons of money, OR just other things that went wrong--that money that may have been there for education, was needed elsewhere. Though is an extreme scenario, with the economy the way it is and with the new "idea" that things will never ever go back to where they once were, we all should understand that nothing is guaranteed and that there are certain things that will take priority over others. If it came to putting food on the table and keeping shelter versus saving that money for a students ENTIRE tuition then I think most people would say that the latter is no longer a priority. Most people right now are in that situation--where they would LOVE to pay for education, but due to the economy, amongst other things, they cannot. I do think that if a parent can afford to do so, they should pay as much as they can, and that is what I would do. But the profession I'm going back to school for in January, just won't really pay me the amount that a lawyer, or doctor makes, so my affordability will be very different.

 

My boyfriend went to trade school, and actually makes more than I do (at this point). I would really give my child freedom of choice. I believe that college AND starting my own business within my profession was the best path for me. I want my child to be able to choose their path as well. I would encourage my child to go to college if they were interested in a certain field, but I don't necessarily believe that every person should go to college UNLESS that is what is needed for them to pursue their dream career. I think there are so many options: college, trade school, vocational school--culinary, or cosmetology-, military, starting your own business, or law school, med school, etc. I want my kids to realize all these options exist and to pursue the one that best fits their "long term plan". I do plan on setting at least $400-450 in a 529 per month so that by the time each child is 18, they have money to pursue any of these paths. I also planning on talking to them when they are in middle school about each path, so that throughout HS they can think about what they want to do. This was something my parents NEVER did for me. There was no debate about it, I was going to college, I was going to a private university, and I was majoring in a lucrative field. I don't want my child to face that pressure and I would prefer that they were able to think for themselves about what they feel is best for them.