35 years old. Never married. No kids. Feeling so out of faith and alone

[newwave]

This sounds like me. In my 20's and early 30's it was all about me. I went to college and graduate school, got a job, worked hard, etc. Until I was 35 I was positive I didn't want kids ever. In fact I even considered tubal ligation but my doctor said it was a bad idea for me. I was strongly anti marriage too. Between then and now it's changed. Last year my niece was born and I realized how much I desired a child. Then I reconnected with a guyfriend who wanted to marry me years ago but at the time I wasn't interested. Now he claims he doesn't want to marry ever (though he admitted he did) or get serious. I really hope he comes around (I think he will) but if he doesn't I admit I am scared. Then what? It does get harder to find someone and it does put pressure to find someone, get married and have a kid all before menopause (which luckily in my family runs late). I too couldn't have a child unless I was with someone (unless I adopt).

[bulletproof]

To the o.p.-

 

Just keep in mind that you are 35. You have a good possible ten years left for children, and your entire life for a partner. I know it seems like you only ever wanted to be married and that everyone else has what you don't, but you are seeing the world through cloudy eyes right now. You expressed a wish that you could somehow train your brain to stop having such negative thought patterns, and the good news is that you *can* do that. Please do some research and talk to your therapist about it. You don't have to suffer this way. There is relief if you will just allow yourself to feel it.

[sunday2010]

To the o.p.-

 

Just keep in mind that you are 35. You have a good possible ten years left for children, and your entire life for a partner. I know it seems like you only ever wanted to be married and that everyone else has what you don't, but you are seeing the world through cloudy eyes right now. You expressed a wish that you could somehow train your brain to stop having such negative thought patterns, and the good news is that you *can* do that. Please do some research and talk to your therapist about it. You don't have to suffer this way. There is relief if you will just allow yourself to feel it.

 

I'm going through the sam ething buts its advanced one more year but I'm 36 what relief is there???? plus out of a long term relationship if you think I ain't panicking think again!!!!!

[newwave]

I'm going through the sam ething buts its advanced one more year but I'm 36 what relief is there???? plus out of a long term relationship if you think I ain't panicking think again!!!!!

 

Strangely I didn't panic until this year. I found posts I made last year and even then I was "whatever happens". I wonder if it's because my niece was born and I'm enthralled with her, or because the guy I always thought was the one (and still might, who knows) came back. Even two years ago when relatives told me I'd be alone the rest of my life I didn't panic.

[sunday2010]

Strangely I didn't panic until this year. I found posts I made last year and even then I was "whatever happens". I wonder if it's because my niece was born and I'm enthralled with her, or because the guy I always thought was the one (and still might, who knows) came back. Even two years ago when relatives told me I'd be alone the rest of my life I didn't panic.

 

yeah well i didn't worry to much we had finally moved intogether this time lastyear I was 35 and a few months and poof by may this year it was OVER!!!! and a few weeks later I was 36 alone thrown out of a place i wanted to live in single and trying to get over a BU... trying to date ....... YUP its been a corker of a year!!! I though once we moved in we would be okay ...we'd make it...

[strangeman]

I'd definitely date anyone of them. And contrary to what Strangeman thinks it's not because they were "alpha males". In fact they aren't alpha males at all. In fact the lead singer is married to a supermodel yet he still cheats on her (and sadly, young girls still find this idiot hot).

 

I don't want to seem difficult, but this really sounds like a contradiction. He's married to a supermodel, cheats on her, and young girls still find him hot at age 50?

 

The dude is a badass! (Not condoning cheating here, just pointing out his obvious alpha status)

[strangeman]

Newwave, I promise I'm not picking on you here, I read this and wanted to reply, and only then noticed it was from you.

 

What you describe is a common theme. The man wanted to get serious, but being in your prime years you weren't interested. Now that those years are behind you, you're becoming more interested; lo and behold he has become less so. Generally due to reasons that are similar to what I described, or at least, have an equivalent outcome. During those 10-15 years, he endured countless rejections and eventually learned what a raw deal marriage is, unless the man is both wise and lucky in his choice. Meanwhile we have to observe that your value to him is not as high as it once was. He probably has a thought, somewhere in the corners of his mind, that you played the field for a long, long while, and only now that time is growing short are you willing to give him a chance after all. He may feel like he's your B-plan.

 

You still have plenty of value to offer, clearly. But why raise the 'emotional ante' with yourself, in terms of you now thinking he's the one? Why does it matter so much if he comes around? The world is full of men. Why do you need him in particular? He thought you were the one long ago, but your best fertile years were something he did not deserve; even if you were totally nice about it and unaware of the powerful message your choice said to him, that has to be part of what hardened his heart and made him question everything. I do hope he comes around though. Who knows, he might, especially if you're contrite about the past. I wish you all success with him.

 

That said...

 

Faced with this classic scenario, I wish more women would understand why they - just like responsible men - must compromise. They can't have 100% realized careers, and be 100% realized mothers, with 100% realized children. Something has to give, and it should not be only the men who do the giving (i.e. being unable to marry during a woman's prime fertile years). Compromise can be just fine, but it doesn't come without cost! That's why we end up with this kind of situation happening, resulting in confusion, fear, and other negative energy. Yes, a woman can be over 35, with an advanced career, and still get a family started. It's not ideal in my view, but still quite doable. But she still has to compromise, unless she's super valuable or/and super lucky as compared to her competition.

 

One way to compromise is to be a little more humble and possibly lower your standards a bit, in order to reflect the reduced sexual market value that accrues to women of a certain age.

 

I don't want you to be scared, and certainly do not wish to insult you. Based on what you wrote earlier it seems you should have no reason to be worried given what you've said earlier in this thread. Why place so much value on him? Isn't it still all about you, as it was in your 20s and 30s? Otherwise, why place that pressure on yourself? Don't you have another 7-10 years to find a man and get started? Won't almost any man do, as long as he's attractive, available, and stable? (Which is another point in favor of choosing an older man: you can get better genes for your offspring by finding those males whose status you can raise by being seen with them in public.)

[strangeman]

Your a gem, I just think about my bestfriend whose in a long term relationship but legally never married, and has no children. How she'd be in high demand IMO on a dating website. Whereas there's me, twice divorced by 30, a child from each marriage, one who committed suicide, and now I'm alone and likely will be for life unless I settle for a non-white man. Would you honestly rather have this? I didn't think so. Stop fretting and get out there and connect. Ask your married friend to set you up with their single friends if the websites aren't working for you, branch out and meet real life prospects.

 

Jetta, I feel for you. A thought: how about a 'Brady Bunch' type of situation? Where a single mom marries a single dad? If I found myself in that situation, my instinct would be to find and marry a single mom. That way we both win: each child gets the missing gender-parent, and each parent gets a new partner. Then possibly you two can have an additional child that is yours together, thus establishing that neither parent's child from the previous union is being singled out.

 

My sincere condolences for your loss. I mean it...

[strangeman]

Can't there be a middle ground here? Shouldn't the genders compromise to discover what the new roles should be for each individual couple? Don't all adults have some regrets about one thing or another? When we make choices, we reach a crossroads and choose which way we want to go. The older we get, the more we think about the road we didn't take, and what could have been. It's not realistic, or fair even, that our society could somehow make it possible for your mom to have had a 100% realized career, and yet also be a 100% realized mom. If she had chosen to put her career first, she'd have had regrets about not having kids earlier -- partially because of the inherently-competing value of either choice, and also because she shows the normal adult human tendency to have some kind of regrets about making one choice over another.

 

As it turned out, she got to experience some of the best of both worlds. Shouldn't this be good enough? Why should society conclude that your mom has been wronged, mainly because the laws of physics dictate that she couldn't be in two places at once? I understand the yearning to overcome this basic problem of existence; God knows I wish I could live two lives! Regardless, it seems wrong to let these abstract feelings of regret, over the freedom to make choices, run so far that women start to point fingers at the system and find ever-more injustice at its root. Which is not to those exact words in your mouth, and I agree with you: life is about way more than children. I'm just trying to relate your comments to a male perspective.

 

I have to say, though, it's easy for you to say kids don't need a mother and a father figure, when you had both. On the other hand I do agree with you that young parents, if dysfunctional, are bad; however, I'd also be curious to know what financially stable means to you. I've had a job non-stop since I was 14 years old. Traipsing around Europe or whatever is a choice, not evidence of dysfunction per se.

[strangeman]

If someone had suggested to me in my 20s or early 30s to go into therapy as to why I didn't want a family, I would have told them where to go.

 

As well as my priorities being different when I was younger, I don't think I would have made a good mother. My own childhood was dysfunctional at best, and it's taken me until 38 to properly realise that. I think it's only now that I have the compassion, the empathy and the patience to be a good mother anyway, and to break the cycle of abuse that I suffered from my mother and that she undoubtedly did from hers.

 

I don't think it's a cautionary tale at all.....I have seen and experienced and lived things that many of my friends who chose to have children younger haven't. And likewise, I've not experienced having children.

 

I honor your choices and your experiences, and I second Batya in being impressed with your maturity and making the right decisions for you. The world does not need more confused, unhappy children.

 

My therapy comment was intended for hypothetical young women on the fence about how to spend their prime fertile years, not you in particular who clearly knew what was right for you and why. I apologize to all who felt I meant something else or especially a personal insult. You do not need therapy on this issue.

[Yodabell]

[quote=strangeman;4487979

My therapy comment was intended for hypothetical young women on the fence about how to spend their prime fertile years, not you in particular who clearly knew what was right for you and why. I apologize to all who felt I meant something else or especially a personal insult. You do not need therapy on this issue.

 

That's ok, I didn't take it as a personal insult. I meant that for any woman who does not want children (or is on the fence), it would sound condescending to suggest that she need therapy. I think the decision to go to therapy is something you have to decide for yourself, unless you have sought help for problems from a friend, GP or counsellor and they have suggested it. And the majority of people don't see a decision not to have children as one that 'requires therapy' - rather, they respect that an individual or couple have made the choice that is right for them.

[rapunzel]

I haven't read all of the prior posts, just skimmed, but wanted to make a couple comments.

 

To state the obvious, my parent's generation lived in a completely different world. Many women did not go to college, and were raised and expected to get married and have children. It was a given that the man was the breadwinner and would support his wife and children. My mother did not go to college. She slept with one man, my father, after they were married in their early 20's, she had 5 kids, my dad (who also did not go to college) worked as an electrician, and was somehow able to purchase a summer home in addition to our primary home and to leave my mother comfortable and in a paid off house upon his death. So in the 60's everything started to change.

 

Now girls cannot and will not depend on men to support them. Girls are raised entirely differently now due to the huge changes in family structure and in gender roles. Girls are not raised to start breeding in their early 20's because they are now forced to learn skills in order to support themselves. Girls that were once encouraged to go to college to "find a husband" now to go college to find careers that will allow them to support themselves, in the event they do not find a husband, or that they do and then get divorced. I was still raised by my mother thinking I would get married and have children but in the new world order, it just didn't happen.

 

As a medical professional, I agree that females are best suited (biologically) for having children in their 20's to early 30's. It's a fact that the chance of pregnancy starts to diminish after 35 and greatly after 40. Sure, many women do get pregnant after 40 but many do not, despite heartbreaking attempts with fertility treatment.

 

So with gender roles not so cut and dry anymore, and women being forced and encouraged to support themselves, is it no wonder that so many women have delayed childbearing or not had any children period? This is the explanation I have for so many women in my age group who are single without children, including me.

 

Also, to state the obvious, with the sexual revolution, men did not have to marry to have sex. My dad and the men of his generation essentially married to have sex. Now sex is plentiful, available and there is no commitment. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? My mother constantly bemoans this fact and says that "women took themselves off the pedestal" by providing sex for men with no commitment.

 

In a perfect world, yes, we'd all have 2.5 children by the time we were 30 but clearly, it's not a perfect world....and boy have times changed.

 

Women are now told they can have it all. I agree that they cannot have it all, without some significant compromise. Unless you are wealthy and can have a live in nanny (as many of the wealthy do), or a live out nanny, or some kind of help, a woman cannot have a bunch of children and have a high powered career without some kind of suffering. Having it all is a fallacy.

 

Girls in current Western culture are not truly advised about when their prime fertility is, and many are led to believe (incorrectly) that they can have kids any old time. It is certainly possible (and I have friends as examples) to have kids in your early 40's but to think you can be over 40 and easily decide to have a child is just wishful thinking. Certainly it does happen but the odds are against it happening.

[bulletproof]

I'm going through the sam ething buts its advanced one more year but I'm 36 what relief is there???? plus out of a long term relationship if you think I ain't panicking think again!!!!!

 

The relief is whatever you want it to be. You can panic all you want but I'm not sure how that will help you. Right now, the o.p. needs some positive support. That doesn't mean I'm going to tell her "Don't worry, it will happen", because I can't predict the future. What I am telling her is that she can control how she reacts and feels about the subject, and that she doesn't have to feel anxious, panicked and depressed.

[bulletproof]

Girls in current Western culture are not truly advised about when their prime fertility is, and many are led to believe (incorrectly) that they can have kids any old time. It is certainly possible (and I have friends as examples) to have kids in your early 40's but to think you can be over 40 and easily decide to have a child is just wishful thinking. Certainly it does happen but the odds are against it happening.

 

I agree that it may be more difficult to get pregnant and carry a healthy baby to term as one gets older. However, I think there are other factors that influence this, including overall health, genetics, etc. The way I look at it is that as long as I am still getting a period every month, the potential is still there, so I need to take precautions against it and embrace the idea that I might still have time when I'm ready. And if I don't, so be it. But I definitely see what you are saying.

[uncomfynumb]

First of all I like to remind everyone that if you don't feed the troll, it may just go away. When a new poster chooses to zero in on a thread based on it's title and the first comment made is "A man stepping in with his unwelcome opinion" be warned... This forum is just as much a man's as it is a woman's and unless someone is a troll and in this case, a misogynist, I don't think anyone's opinion is unwelcome here.

 

Rapunzel,

 

For today's woman, I think it is less about having it all and about and more about having choices and general independence. And I think on this thread, things are being blown way out of proportion. I for one, was never told that I could have it all so I prioritized what was important to me. I absolutely did not want children before the age of 30 so the statement of yours that I bolded above is not my idea of a perfect world at all and there are many other women that felt and feel the way that I do. I guess the reason that I'm taking the time to point this out if because it is a popular misconception that all women want children and regret not having them. It is an equally popular misconception that a woman has a harder time finding a life partner as she ages or at least any more than a man does. Then again, I'm posting based on my own personal experience and what I see around me.

 

Younger people in general are better suited biologically for having children than older people. If you think a man's age has no influence what so ever think again. His body, just like a woman's, is less likely to snap back from injury and surgery, and we have declining energy levels here as well. And here is an article you might find interesting about the offspring of older men having lower IQs. link removed

 

Now what I do see as a problem is that a lot of women and men have this long list of expectations and requirements, "must haves" in a partner. Let's face it, older men and women have less choice than their younger equal counter parts. I've read many a post by newwave for instance who is dead set on a never married man with no children. At her age, I think if she does want to settle down she may just have to bend a little or resign to being alone.

 

BTW, rich and famous folk make bad examples. Look at Demi; older woman, younger man. Cher does it too. I don't think this makes them badass. But then again, I'm not swimming in a mud puddle so to speak. : )

[uncomfynumb]

The relief is whatever you want it to be. You can panic all you want but I'm not sure how that will help you. Right now, the o.p. needs some positive support. That doesn't mean I'm going to tell her "Don't worry, it will happen", because I can't predict the future. What I am telling her is that she can control how she reacts and feels about the subject, and that she doesn't have to feel anxious, panicked and depressed.

 

Great post! Things are only as big of a deal as we make them or let other people influence us to make them. I've not been in this particular relationship that long and I was in one prior to this that ended (the reason I found this forum I might add!) but I told myself way before either of these that I would be just fine if I never found a partner and I would be. You never stop working towards your personal plans and goals and remain focused on that. Be gracious and thankful everyday for the things that you do have and don't focus on what you don't. Lastly, if you believe that you are truly blessed, then you will be blessed.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Society doesn't say anything, my mother isn't happy herself! In fact, if you talk to her, although she agrees that she absolutely loves her children, she says that she should have had them later and also agrees that not having children would not be a huge deal. Most of her problems in life comes from us, lol. Do you know how hard was it for her to have both?! It's easy to tell people to do both, but in reality, it's like torture. She also regrets marrying young, if she waited she could find a much better match for her. Her regrets are deeper than what you think....

 

Well, I hate to say it, but when I was younger most of the emotional support for me came from my mother. Not saying my father didn't make any difference, but I can't see how it would be different if I had another mother instead, perhaps even more love and support, fabulous! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the things my dad have done for us, but he was overwhelmed with life too and he was the type of guy who wanted to solve problems without paying much attention to the emotional side and couldn't stand being wrong...He now regrets his personality in the past and can see how that hurt us.

 

I think your supposedly solution for young women is a recipe for disaster, for different reasons. First of all, a young woman doesn't know enough of herself to be able to find a good mate, don't believe me? check out the divorce statistics. And certainly you don't want there to be more children of divorce or children in dysfunctional families, do you? Second, a young confused woman will bring up confused children. To me, quality matters more than quantity. We already have enough people out there that are completely messed up due to the family they grew up in, why add some more?!

 

Some of the women that post here are simply just seeing the world from their eyes. They don't seem to understand that maybe they had it good! Would they really rather to have settled for someone who wasn't good for them and just stayed in that marriage since they had children? Would they really rather to have spent their twenties at home worrying about kids instead of going to schools, seeing the world and expanding their knowledge? They might say yes, but I know women who regret those deeply too.

[uncomfynumb]

It's not realistic, or fair even, that our society could somehow make it possible for your mom to have had a 100% realized career, and yet also be a 100% realized mom.

 

It's not realistic, or fair even, that our society could somehow make it possible for your dad to have had a 100% realized career, and yet also be a 100% realized dad.

 

Interesting...

[Blue Spiral]

I agree, uncomfynumb. Very convenient double-standard.

[strangeman]

It's not realistic, or fair even, that our society could somehow make it possible for your dad to have had a 100% realized career, and yet also be a 100% realized dad.

 

Interesting...

 

You're right, I agree with you. In these modern times, a man must be willing to stay at home if that's best for the family unit and the kids. I'll do the same if need be. I'm amused that you think I'm a troll simply because I disagree and I do it well.

 

There is no double standard here, but just because I'm new here, because I'm a man, and because I disagree with the loud establishment here on some key points (namely that women, or men, can have it all without compromise) I'm seen as a trouble maker. Which is itself a convenient way to put me into a little box and diminish my own opinions.

 

I'm disappointed that you think the above quote is somehow a difficult concession for me to make, given all that I've said here.

[strangeman]

I agree, uncomfynumb. Very convenient double-standard.

 

I agree that men have the same problems and responsibilities. And have in many posts on this thread. How does that make me in support of any such double standard? I'm a fair, reasonable man - not that it does me much good around here. That is, until the last few pages of this thread.

[uncomfynumb]

I agree, uncomfynumb. Very convenient double-standard.

 

Thank you!

 

Interesting that the children will suffer only if mom is a career mom but not if dad is a career dad…

 

The troll is not interested in equality, he is interested in conforming women to his own ideals and is using scare tactics to try and do so, and on those that are already feeling weak and vulnerable. He figures with his drama he will create more and perhaps the elders will begin to preach to the younglings about the upcoming apocalypse.

 

I'm amused that you think I'm a troll simply because I disagree and I do it well.

No, I think you are a troll because of what you did; found a thread to target under the guise of care but for the sole purpose your furthering your personal agaenda. As for doing it well, that too could be argued. If you did it well perhaps you'd have less who disagreed with you.

[newwave]

I don't want to seem difficult, but this really sounds like a contradiction. He's married to a supermodel, cheats on her, and young girls still find him hot at age 50?

 

The dude is a badass! (Not condoning cheating here, just pointing out his obvious alpha status)

 

No he's a jerk who can get get women because of who he is. I'm not saying the name of this band but it's one you likely have heard of. Rock musicians can get hot women no matter how old and ugly they are. Incidentally the bass player (who's usually considered much more hotter) does not have this behavior at all.

[newwave]

I've read many a post by newwave for instance who is dead set on a never married man with no children. At her age, I think if she does want to settle down she may just have to bend a little or resign to being alone.

 

Why should I bend on something I find wrong? I find being a dad without being married (whether divorced or never married) in most cases wrong. Not to mention I have zero interests in being a stepmom (I refuse to pay for kids not mine). If it means I'm alone then I'm alone BUT the thing is around here there are many men over 40 never married without kids so they are out there. Sure it means I might have to bend on other things (age, weight, education, smoking, etc), but I can't bend on things I find morally wrong.

[newwave]

There are many reasons I didn't end up with him then and the main reason was I wasn't ready. I was somewhat immature and had gotten out of a bad relationship when we met. In hindsight I wish I had realized things then but I didn't. I hope we get a seconf chance this time.