35 years old. Never married. No kids. Feeling so out of faith and alone

[No1]

Change the way you look at yourself. You are sending off smoke signals saying you are desperate and you want a hubby now and you want kids 10min ago.

A man can see those signals from miles away and they will not want you for the long term because of it. They will only get what they can, then leave you.

I sent you an email, but just have to relax. You are only 35. Yes I said only. You have so much time to find someone and have a family still. Just because your friends are married, doesnt mean they are happy. You dont have to argure with anyone, have someone to tell you what to wear or not wear, be home by a certain time, question you to where you have been. I bet your friends envy your freedom, but you are missing what they have in a companionship.

Youll find someone in due time. But quit sending out the smoke signals. You have to make yourself happy first, then youll have guys coming to you and asking you why you are so happy, then from there, you can decide weather or not they are worthy to be in your life.

[rapunzel]

please...for the love of GOD...don't go gaga over a guy right away, even if you ARE gaga over him. I did that...BIG MISTAKE on my part! lol Hopefully the next one that comes along I'll be a little smarter (and slower) with. Kind of odd that it was the female in the situation trying to rush things, huh? haha

 

This hit home as I met the guy I thought was "the one" three years ago. I was living with someone else and had been unhappy for a long time, trying to figure out a way to end the relationship. I knew I had to leave when I met "the one". I hadn't dated in 6 years and I was "gaga". I blew it. Yeah, it takes two and all that but I really feel that I blew it. By going too fast, then expecting too much too soon. Ugh, I still haven't completely forgiven myself. Some have consoled me that he's a player, always finds faults with the women he is with (true, he is currently single) and he would have dumped me no matter what I did, but I do feel that he really liked me in the beginning, we have tons in common, had an incredible connection and had things gone slower, and I was in a better frame of mind (not freshly out of a long term relationship) that it would not have blown up in my face. The fact that we work together has made it very, very difficult.

 

So, this very good advice. Even if you've been alone for a long time, we women have to be cautious and go slooowly as men can be scared off very easily. Don't ever make a guy the center of your life, even in the beginning when you are really excited and can't wait for his call or when you are going to see him again. This is a mistake. NEVER chase the guy you really like, or be too available, or change your plans for him. It's hard to do when you're crazy about someone but it is KEY.

 

By the way, I'm a 49 year old female, never married. I have had a lot of guys interested in me recently but none of them do it for me. I'm hopeful I'll get a chance with someone I AM interested in but I also know that I CAN be alone and it's not so bad - way worse things have happened to people.

 

So please enjoy your relative youth and your singletude. There are TONS of single people now, male and female (especially near urban centers, where I live) from your age on up and there is NOTHING wrong with it. Look at the divorce rate. Marriage is no walk in the park, from what I hear. Many married people are jealous of my freedom and lifestyle. There are pros and cons to everything. If you are genuinely able to entertain yourself and do the things that you enjoy, you will live a much happier life...

[change_in_tide]

No.1 thanks for your PM, I have not read it yet but I will. Before I do I want to say that I really don't think I'm giving off the vibe you think I'm giving off. I mean my last serious relationship ended after 2 years but he was the one pushing for forever and I was the one telling him to slow down. He was three and a half years younger than me too. At 8 months he wanted to propose and move in together and I said no, let's wait at least a year and that's when things started going downhill honestly. at a year and 3 months I said ok on moving in and looking at rings, even though we were having some problems and then things got worse. Honestly he was still being a jerk but was the one who wanted to stay and work it out (on his terms) and I did not because of how he was acting. Does that make me sound to you like someone who is projecting the I am desperate to get married and have kids vibe? I think it sounds the opposite. I think it sounds like I want to get married and have kids but I'm not going to tolerate bad behavior and I am not afraid to take the risk and go back out there again.

 

Of course now that I AM back out there you fine people get to hear how I'm actually feeling and my deepest fears. I think I was really brave to do what I did but am suffering regardless. If I was the desperate to get married and have kids type I would have stayed with him and accepted mistreatement or I would have just married my college boyfriend but I turned him down. I have an ex that is trying to get me back that I'm sure I could also marry. I am SELECTIVE but I am FRUSTRATED. I think it means something that I have put my dream on hold and have not settled to find the RIGHT PERSON despite knowing that every time I leave a relationship it could very well be my last chance at achieving what I really want.

 

What's ironic is I have two ex boyfriends who I loved very much at the time that took me for granted that I am completely over and who will both not leave me alone!! I broke up with one 6 years ago and the other 2.5 years ago. I DO FEEL like there is a grain in truth to what you are saying No. 1 though about scaring off men by making them too important as Rapunzel said here:

 

Even if you've been alone for a long time, we women have to be cautious and go slooowly as men can be scared off very easily. Don't ever make a guy the center of your life, even in the beginning when you are really excited and can't wait for his call or when you are going to see him again. This is a mistake. NEVER chase the guy you really like, or be too available, or change your plans for him. It's hard to do when you're crazy about someone but it is KEY.

 

I never act gaga in the beginning, they are the ones that are acting crazy about me wanting to be with me all the time and It takes me awhile to fall BUT when I do fall because they have made me feel safe by having strong feelings toward me I think I do start making them the center of my life. I think I DO make myself to available and do too much for them and end up being taken for granted or mistreated as a result. And in a way perhaps they do feel like I've become too reliant on them and they start neglecting me. Once I end things though and disappear and move on they are trying desperately to get me back as if they can finally see that I am not the dependent person they thought I was that would always be there for them no matter what? I'm not saying I completely neglect my life but when I do love someone I do end up putting them first and being available to them over time

[change_in_tide]

I know! I want so badly to have a family of some sort. I don't want to date anymore. I don't want relationships that end after 3 or 4 years. I was doing ok with all this for a while. Now I feel just like you. My eyes are all still all puffy from crying so much last night. I've spent months trying to distract myself with working out and seeing a psychiatrist, reading, learning, dating. I felt better, and now this sadness hit me hard. I enjoyed my alone time for a while. I don't want to live alone anymore. I'm lonely. I've been feeling like this for a few days. I hope this passes soon. I am so emotionally messed up that I'm making myself physically sick.

 

I feel so bad for you because I so understand I just went and got some mediation... xanax and prozac. I am hoping this well help with my withdrawal from the other anti depressant which is making me feel truly horribly hopeless. I cried myself to sleep last night. It's so hard to go to work or see my family and put a smile on my face when I feel so sick inside and am so scared about my future. God I so want to retrain my thoughts to NOT WORRY ABOUT THESE THINGS. Perhaps some medication on anxiety would work because it's so hard. I have always been this sensitive/feeling type. Things have always hit me hard even since I was a little girl, I would love to be able to change my thinking!!

 

Incaangelique- it sounds like are you doing all the right things... I have been doing them as well... sometimes we have these set backs... I am not always this completely miserable but the FEAR is always there... fear that I'll never get what I always wanted. I am VERY MUCH a person who enjoys my alone time. I'm a total introvert and look for busy guys so that that won't get taken away from me... it's just there is TOO much alone time right now. I am going to try that meetup thing to try to make friends my age. Everyone I work with is YOUNGER or OLDER... it's like the entire 30's generation is totally AWOL at all my jobs... crazy.

[change_in_tide]

thanks Pirouette... sometimes I feel like a total freak show though. I used to work with this one woman in NYC, she was so sweet and beautiful, nicely dressed, intelligent and 45 and single. She seemed SO lonely and I felt for her. She had been in like a 10 year relationship that didn't work out and she ended. said she was happier on her own but she seemed so sad. I don't want to end up like that. she told me she didn't even try to meet men anymore. My thoughts are crazy... I know if i was a single mom it would be SOOOOO HARD but at the same time I'd feel like at least I had my kids and I would not feel like I was in a hurry to find someone in order to have some. But that presents it's own set of problems I realize.

[No1]

Hello there, I just went by with what you posted and didnt know there was more to this history with the other boyfriends. But I can say with about 80% certainty that when you told your then BF to wait a year, he took that as a complete rejection and that you would probably never marry him. So from that day on, he was very resentful to you and never recovered from the non rejection, rejection. But I totally understand where you came from. 8months is not a long time.

and it does sound like from your past post that you are on the right track. And really its only a matter of time. There is nothing wrong with you at all. You time has not come up yet thats all. I believe there is a bit of fate and a bit of your doing that combines for this whole love thing. How you will find it or when? I dont know, but I know you will find it and you will be happier than you thought possible.

On a strange and odd note, have you ever seen the movie "hes just not that into you?" That was a good movie about relationships and dating. And in the end, there is a good message about love..

[Sparkly Eyes]

OP, unfortunately, many of us are going to end up alone, married or not... I'm not saying you will, but don't think you are some oddball or have the worst life just because you are not married yet. I know some great girls around your age and like you. They refused to settle and I think that actually shows quality.

[sunday2010]

thanks Pirouette... sometimes I feel like a total freak show though. I used to work with this one woman in NYC, she was so sweet and beautiful, nicely dressed, intelligent and 45 and single. She seemed SO lonely and I felt for her. She had been in like a 10 year relationship that didn't work out and she ended. said she was happier on her own but she seemed so sad. I don't want to end up like that. she told me she didn't even try to meet men anymore. My thoughts are crazy... I know if i was a single mom it would be SOOOOO HARD but at the same time I'd feel like at least I had my kids and I would not feel like I was in a hurry to find someone in order to have some. But that presents it's own set of problems I realize.

 

I feel like this too.. so don't worry

[Yodabell]

If it's any consolation to you, I'm 38 and never married and I have no children. My boyfriend broke up with me a week ago.

 

But you know, life isn't over. I'd love to have children, but I figure that if that doesn't happen, then it just was't meant to happen for me. It's the choices in life that I've made for myself that have brought me to where I am now, and it will be the choices I make from here that will take me where I want to go.

 

Being single is fine if you don't see it as a big label on your head. I would way rather be on my own than in a rubbish relationship that was making me unhappy. I've decided that if I've not had a baby by the time I'm 43, then I'll adopt one - whether I'm on my own or with a partner.

 

Please focus on the positives - it sounds like you have lots of them. I understand about lots of your friends being married - last time I was in that situation, I went and found new friends who are single. So now I still have my settled married friends, who I spend time with, but I have other friends who want to go out and do different activities.

 

I started a couple of new hobbies 2 years ago that have opened up so many opportunities for me - I'm going to the Caribbean in 2 weeks which I would never have dreamt I would have done previously!

 

Take care

[MissDaisy]

Hey.. I can relate to everyone on this post. I am 42 (single, never married, no kids) and I worry as well about where I am headed for the future. I was dating a younger guy (aged 33) for three months and he broke up with me two months ago. The healing process gets tougher with age.

 

Nevertheless, my friends admire me and say that I have done so much over the years (I have a PhD and I've lived in a few different countries and traveled to every continent in the world, except the Antarctic). I have fulfilled some major life goals... but love is the most elusive.

[sunday2010]

Hey.. I can relate to everyone on this post. I am 42 (single, never married, no kids) and I worry as well about where I am headed for the future. I was dating a younger guy (aged 33) for three months and he broke up with me two months ago. The healing process gets tougher with age.

 

Nevertheless, my friends admire me and say that I have done so much over the years (I have a PhD and I've lived in a few different countries and traveled to every continent in the world, except the Antarctic). I have fulfilled some major life goals... but love is the most elusive.

 

yes it is elusive i thought I had it (broken up out of 3 yr 10 mth relationship 5 months ago) Its ascary thought being 36 and single...Don't date the early 30's types they are still immature the men are anyway....they are not intereted in setling down most of them....one of a female comic here is australia is single and 37 broken up with BF... so i look at her and think oh well if it can happen to her it can happen to anybody....and shes well known..so I don't feel so alone...but you know you lookaround and there isome ugly horrible women aout there and i know I'm not one of them i deserve to find LOVE.. and they all have partners mostly with three kids trailing behind....

[strangeman]

Hi there change_in_tide, I'm a man in his mid 30s with similar thoughts of commitment. That leads me to read many, many Internet forums and I especially value the ones filled with women discussing these issues. Normally I just lurk, read quietly, analyze, and try to learn so I can avoid making crucial mistakes.

 

In reading your post I have decided to de-cloak and perhaps be welcomed into this discussion. Firstly, I feel your pain.

 

I wanted to second what No1 said about how your ex-BF took your refusal to move in and get started on the long term, though I suspect he may have had a different reason. I believe that he saw your age and that you were borderline unfertile or at higher risk of producing defective children. When he saw that still, even at your mid-30s, that you were unwilling to cohabitate and move forward, that by the time you would be ready, it would simply be too late for him. He didn't want to wait that long, and he may also have felt that you were biologically in denial or something.

 

I personally would be very curious to know what you look like. You seem very demanding and that men must meet a long checklist before you will consider him. What do you find attractive in a man? Can you post some pics of random dudes from Google Images or something that you'd consider good enough to meet your physical attractiveness requirement?

 

Also, what age range do you want? I am often curious about successful mid-career professional women who don't understand why men their age are not interested. Basically, it's because we don't want a woman who is basically a man with an X chromosome. What good is the man, when she does everything he does except when she doesn't want to? It's too complicated for him.

 

That said I salute those posters who want to be feminine for their man. Don't be ashamed, and men like me don't think you're some relic from the 1950s....

 

In my view, you can get an attractive man in his 40s, as long as you are pretty, feminine, not argumentative, and in reasonably good shape.

 

I will make sincere attempts to participate in this discussion, and even reveal some man-truths normally hidden from women, if my presence is welcome here.

[change_in_tide]

strangeman, of course you are welcome here and honestly i welcome all men's opinions on this topic. No. 1 and strangeman I must say you are really starting to make me paranoid about my previous response to X in postponing engagement and living together with him. It's not like I was mean about it, it's just that he admitted that sometimes he had the tendency to get ahead of himselves in matters of the heart and I just wanted to wait until we had been together a year to go there.. that was only four months down the line. Would that really have messed with him and made him feel that rejected? He knew I wanted that with him and that I loved him but looking back it is when things started to go downhill.

 

I do know he was concerned about my age and at one point he even asked me if we could get pregnant before getting married/engaged to which I said no I just couldn't as I am very traditional with that sort of thing and I want that commitment before I make that leap to have a child. It makes me feel pretty horrible to think that maybe I hurt him and ruined everything just with that decision. I also know that once we moved in together I had a very hard time adapting to living w/someone. It was the first real time I had lived with a boyfriend... and I was scared about it. I know he felt I was separating myself from him. I had our guest room set up like my old room and all my clothes were in there... this really bothered him. he wanted my clothes in our room but there was not much closet space. I used to get dressed in the other room too as I am really grumpy in the morning and just wanted my space. I also would sleep in the other room when we got into a fight which he would say just "killed him" but I just needed my separation. It was hard to lower my wall when he was being so nasty to me and taking out his stress on me but then again when I realized it bothered him I did move a lot of my clothes in our room and suggested we get a wardrobe but he never showed interest in putting forth the effort to do so. So he wanted to be AS ONE and I was struggling with that. I felt like he was forcing it too soon and not giving me space to adjust and feel comfortable and when he was nasty to me I backed off even further. When I was mad I would leave the house and go for a drive and he'd be upset by that too and said I was a flight risk and he felt I would just leave him one day... but the other side of this is he was VERY DISRESPECTFUL and nasty to me and did not appreciate all the love and support I gave him. He just was not letting me gradually become comfortable in a situation I had never experienced before.

 

If you want to see a picture of myself I can post one briefly but then i'm taking it down of course. as far as what kind of guys are attractive to me... lol I don't know. without posting pics of my exes who were not models or anything i'm not really sure how I would prove that.

[change_in_tide]

oh and as far as age range goes, I guess ideally I'm looking for someone 30-42 maybe? Up until recently I always dated men 5 years older for the maturity level and I have never been drawn to party type immature men even when I was in my partying stage.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Great, another man with awesome attitude.

 

Strangeman...I'm still in my twenties but thankfully, I never really met a man who talk about women like that in real life. Never met a guy who says he doesn't want a professional woman (as far as I remember right now), although met plenty of them on internet. It really makes me wonder tho, if men are truly such insecure individuals who just want something pretty who is below them, why would women ever want to be with them?! I think, as bad as it sounds, any woman who knows a man has such beliefs and still chooses to stay with him, either has very low self esteem or just doesn't see herself as something worthy. I'm not sure how such a woman can raise great confident children. But I guess you want your children to just be pretty, brains and intelligence has no importance apparently.

[strangeman]

strangeman, of course you are welcome here and honestly i welcome all men's opinions on this topic.

 

Thank you. I see this forum as neutral territory.

 

No. 1 and strangeman I must say you are really starting to make me paranoid about my previous response to X in postponing engagement and living together with him. It's not like I was mean about it, it's just that he admitted that sometimes he had the tendency to get ahead of himselves in matters of the heart and I just wanted to wait until we had been together a year to go there.. that was only four months down the line. Would that really have messed with him and made him feel that rejected? He knew I wanted that with him and that I loved him but looking back it is when things started to go downhill.

 

Yes, and there are multiple ways this can happen, other than this. He still tried, but you were not nearly as ready as him, without stating what's the right amount of time. You needed a lot more time than he did, and perhaps there's no value or moral judgment to be made either way. We are all given a certain amount of time, resources, challenge, and luck. Indecisiveness about something as important as LTR is a red flag and can itself be a reason for rejection. In his case, it apparently was, regardless of what his reasons actually were.

 

I'll comment more inline but want to summarize here: IMO, it's not just that he admitted his tendencies, as you say above; it's also because of your many issues/quirks/eccentricities that you describe below. Taken together with your other posts it's starting to look like your personality worked in concert with your age. Eventually, critical mass was reached and the chain reaction occurred, destroying the relationship. He was no longer able to tolerate the combination of damage to yourself plus loss of his precious time.

 

I do know he was concerned about my age and at one point he even asked me if we could get pregnant before getting married/engaged to which I said no I just couldn't as I am very traditional with that sort of thing and I want that commitment before I make that leap to have a child...He just was not letting me gradually become comfortable in a situation I had never experienced before.

 

I am impressed by your ability to self-reflect, as well as your personal maturity. This relationship has strengthened you and increased your wisdom, which is why I want to help you with the masculine context.

 

To me, you come accross as a nice, sincere person. Were you ever able to explain things to him as clearly as you have here? So far I don't really see any wrongs on either side. This was a compatibility issue. You were honest and open about who you were, and it didn't fit with what he was expressing.

 

All women should remember that a woman's youth is most precious to men. Its value is far beyond the individual life experience of the young woman, for it is upon not money, but female youth and beauty, that the edifice of all civilization hangs. Manly men see the way so many modern women spend this treasure - partying, pursuing only the flashiest bad boys, living the fantasy - as selfish and cruel.

 

To such women I say: These men *were* your age once. They were your age when you were spending your peak value to chase this dream. They remember what you did, because they were the ones constantly failing to get your attention. In the thirties, the tables turn and suddenly it's the men who are more attractive than same-age female peers.

 

Meanwhile, fertility is static. It is the fulcrum of our entire species. This is why, once a woman reaches a certain age and beyond, the age of her next man tends to rise in a non-linear fashion.

 

When a woman is in her 20s, she should not be avoiding decent but boring men in their 20s, unless she is 1) beautiful and determined to marry up while she is at her peak value, or 2) willing to risk being 35 and single. If she needs more time, are those needs really more important? Fertility is static. Which means that to indulge those needs is to shift her attractiveness away from men her age and toward the ever-older.

 

It is biological, and thus ironic that women tend not to anticipate any of this until it's too late. Primarily because they never knew what it was like to be unable to trade on their looks and charm. Denial can also contribute to the general sense of confusion and fear. Whereas that's how men begin, being routinely bested by older, stronger alpha men and ignored by the more desirable women; then later on, after having these same brutal lessons beaten into them for a decade, they later have the opportunity to use that wisdom and secure a woman of quality. Women, meanwhile, spend that same decade being pursued relentlessly, rejecting men left and right, without quite understanding why exactly it is they have this tremendous power: the power to accept a male's display. Some women seem to believe the power comes from something uniquely special, different, entitled, or/and superior about themselves.

 

Quality, meanwhile, is measured in the same way it always was: fertility, the twin sister of youth. Women benefit from this system until 35 or so, and then are justifiably shocked. Even those who do realize all this in their 20s, or even earlier, probably fail to appreciate just how dramatic, how axiomatic, the results really are. The alternatives are today's hook-up culture, feminism, SATC, and political correctness. All of which blur the big picture, and compete directly with a woman's ability to attract and keep a man - that is, to the extent she rebels from men. Which she has total freedom to do, but not without cost, which is what seems to be a common theme (e.g. having it both ways).

 

Women who refuse to submit to a man undermine what men do, spending their lives working and building, in order to create the resources to have a family. Women have the right and freedom to do this, but they do not have the fertility to have it both ways. They must choose. The worst thing, therefore, that a woman could do with her precious youth, is to make that decision against her own interests, and do so without realizing it. Either way she will make that choice, barring some disaster that makes it for her.

 

If you want to see a picture of myself I can post one briefly but then i'm taking it down of course. as far as what kind of guys are attractive to me... lol I don't know. without posting pics of my exes who were not models or anything i'm not really sure how I would prove that.

 

I do indeed. You have my attention tonight, so go ahead.

 

oh and as far as age range goes, I guess ideally I'm looking for someone 30-42 maybe? Up until recently I always dated men 5 years older for the maturity level and I have never been drawn to party type immature men even when I was in my partying stage.

 

Aim high, I certainly do the same! In all frankness I'd say it should be more like 35-45. For women of 45, I'd say 50-65 is appropriate.

 

Great, another man with awesome attitude. Strangeman...I'm still in my twenties but thankfully, I never really met a man who talk about women like that in real life.

 

And that's why I'm here. Not just for you but for all women you read this thread in the future. That's right, I'm putting in the time and effort to say what is rarely said, and do so in a way that is clear and fair minded.

 

Anyway, most men are feminized now. Be glad you don't live in Japan!

 

Never met a guy who says he doesn't want a professional woman (as far as I remember right now), although met plenty of them on internet. It really makes me wonder tho, if men are truly such insecure individuals who just want something pretty who is below them, why would women ever want to be with them?!

 

I'm really going to try and break down the masculine perspective here. Let's make this one of those epic 50+ page threads where all the OCD minded can really soak in a variety of comments!

 

The answer, of course, yes. We are insecure, because current divorce laws give women the power to destroy their men, if - and only if - they want to. Women see this as no big deal because they are living a fantasy, where reality does not intrude, but if it does then they are perfectly fine having the keys to the escape hatch.

 

In light of this, men conclude the opposite. Marriage is dangerous, and since most women no longer wish to submit, it becomes too dangerous. A woman can simply become bored one day, or choose to exact a horrific revenge. She may have let herself go and become asexual, and yet not understand why her man started sleeping around (I've got him trapped/I'm still gorgeous/he's fat too/etc). Since most women are not greatly skilled in self-reflection, all these subtleties are lost in a whirlwind of solipsism.

 

I think, as bad as it sounds, any woman who knows a man has such beliefs and still chooses to stay with him, either has very low self esteem or just doesn't see herself as something worthy. I'm not sure how such a woman can raise great confident children. But I guess you want your children to just be pretty, brains and intelligence has no importance apparently.

 

High intelligence is a burden. A balance is far better, with charm and beauty a crucial asset in today's society. To be beautiful is to adapt. Compatibility has to do with so much more, because it's really about teamwork. That means interfacing with your other half, the masculine. It also means raising his status in society, where the coin of the realm (youth/fertility) that would normally used by a selfish, solipsistic SATC lifestyle is instead added to the man he already is.

 

They become a couple, where suddenly the important adage applies: behind every good man is a better woman.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Women who refuse to submit to a man undermine what men do, spending their lives working and building, in order to create the resources to have a family. Women have the right and freedom to do this, but they do not have the fertility to have it both ways. They must choose. The worst thing, therefore, that a woman could do with her precious youth, is to make that decision against her own interests, and do so without realizing it. Either way she will make that choice, barring some disaster that makes it for her.

 

Men don't have it as long as you think either, educate yourself:

 

 

I'm really going to try and break down the masculine perspective here. Let's make this one of those epic 50+ page threads where all the OCD minded can really soak in a variety of comments!

 

The answer, of course, yes. We are insecure, because current divorce laws give women the power to destroy their men, if - and only if - they want to. Women see this as no big deal because they are living a fantasy, where reality does not intrude, but if it does then they are perfectly fine having the keys to the escape hatch.

 

In light of this, men conclude the opposite. Marriage is dangerous, and since most women no longer wish to submit, it becomes too dangerous. A woman can simply become bored one day, or choose to exact a horrific revenge. She may have let herself go and become asexual, and yet not understand why her man started sleeping around (I've got him trapped/I'm still gorgeous/he's fat too/etc). Since most women are not greatly skilled in self-reflection, all these subtleties are lost in a whirlwind of solipsism.

 

Well I'm sorry, but as a woman I've learned not to be attracted to insecure whiny men. Any man who admit this isn't worth my time, period. I bet you can't admit this to your potential wife either. My last boyfriend would absolutly love when I had a success in my career or school. He was proud of of my accomplishments really. I had other guys who would get turned on by the idea of having an intellectual conversation. Yeah, I like feminized men. Believe it or not, they're good in bed too.

 

Find a good woman for yourself, sign a prenup if you have to...don't marry for god's sake! Just don't marry thinking "she should submit to me, because my little ego would get hurt if she leaves me when I'm boring and fat". It's ultimate selfishness on a man's part if he thinks women should just put up with them no matter what. I dunno if you've read history, but some men with such insecure attitudes were the ones who killed people and caused trouble the most. Why? because people didn't "submit" to them. They had no charm or strategy, that's why they had to supress people's freedom to stay at power. I don't see how what you about men and women's relationship is any different.

 

 

High intelligence is a burden. A balance is far better, with charm and beauty a crucial asset in today's society. To be beautiful is to adapt. Compatibility has to do with so much more, because it's really about teamwork. That means interfacing with your other half, the masculine. It also means raising his status in society, where the coin of the realm (youth/fertility) that would normally used by a selfish, solipsistic SATC lifestyle is instead added to the man he already is.

 

 

Just because beauty is an asset, doesn't mean it's a good thing and shouldn't be changed. Can't you really see how brainwashed you are when you say that?! yeah inteligence is a burden...If it wasn't because of high intellience, you wouldn't be here posting on an internet forum, you would be out hunting your animals...

The people who use their fertility the most (probably they are real women to you!) are the ones who have the lowest intelligence in today's society (no offence to anyone, just stating the common pattern). I can only imagine if people sumbit to your ideas, we will go a few hundred years back instead of going forward.

 

Bottom line is that...men are threatened by modern women. That's why they use all these biology and fertility arguments (they even don't know the arguments well either, just on a shallow level) to scare women, to have them sleep with them although they really don't have much to offer. I'm sorry, but that won't work, not at this stage. No matter how much you try, I doubt women ever go back to that old submissive, baby popping machine role you want them to.

[strangeman]

Men don't have it as long as you think either, educate yourself:

]

 

You are absolutely right! In part that is why I mentioned the loss of his precious time as being one of the likely reasons why he couldn't accept change_in_tide's decisions. I happen to be about the same age as she, which is why a man like me is crashing a thread like this.

 

Your feelings are justified and I feel their pain as well - after all, I felt the male version from ages 13 to 30. Which I'd argue is a common story to which most men can relate: i.e. from puberty to mature manhood. A spread which also corresponds to ages 18-35 in a female. A remarkable symmetry, and one upon which I choose to remark today.

 

Well I'm sorry, but as a woman I've learned not to be attracted to insecure whiny men. Any man who admit this isn't worth my time, period.

 

Please, don't be. I agree, though whining is not in my playbook. What I do is solve problems.

 

I bet you can't admit this to your potential wife either.

 

Correct. Instead, I've gone to great lengths to focus on personality and select for what I want. Then I reinforce it through dominant behavior that simply inspires a consistent response. I'm often told that my woman "feels like a woman" and is grateful for it. Especially the professionals, who are themselves strong women and thus require someone stronger.

 

So my philosophy is not simple, but in a way it's kind of like Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science": simple patterns (cellular automata), built upon themselves into a sufficient complexity.

 

My last boyfriend would absolutly love when I had a success in my career or school. He was proud of of my accomplishments really. I had other guys who would get turned on by the idea of having an intellectual conversation. Yeah, I like feminized men. Believe it or not, they're good in bed too.

 

Once again, I feel your pain. Many men have natural tendencies to be nurturing and supportive. But then the most attractive females are repulsed by these same qualities. This is the inverse of what I mentioned in my first post: about women who forcibly swap gender roles by refusing to compromise, then are confused about why they suddenly find their men less and less attractive as they become more feminine and submissive.

 

It's a zero sum game, I'd say. Being supportive and loving when a woman earns success, in career or/and academia, is not in any way anti-male. It's all about how he does it. Which is something I think everyone here can agree makes a certain intuitive sense.

 

Just to be clear, I am supportive and enthusiastic about my woman's activities and achievements, whatever they are. That is, unless I have a problem with something in particular.

 

Find a good woman for yourself, sign a prenup if you have to...don't marry for god's sake! Just don't marry thinking "she should submit to me, because my little ego would get hurt if she leaves me when I'm boring and fat". It's ultimate selfishness on a man's part if he thinks women should just put up with them no matter what. I dunno if you've read history, but some men with such insecure attitudes were the ones who killed people and caused trouble the most. Why? because people didn't "submit" to them. They had no charm or strategy, that's why they had to supress people's freedom to stay at power. I don't see how what you about men and women's relationship is any different.

 

You are once again completely correct. I view this as a certain noblesse oblige on the part of the man and it is what I practice in my relationships. It's the positive essence of chauvinism: that virtuous women deserve and thus earn generous, protective treatment from men of honor. Where the special one is cherished. In my world, kindness is not weakness: it is a firm, unyielding hand in a plush velvet glove.

 

My woman is an alpha female in her own right: leader of women, more charming, beautiful, and at least plenty smart (absolute value TBD). The trick is that I *inspire* behavior that is submissive and feminine, which I then reinforce with a positive, dominant masculinity.

 

Over time I will refine this to its theoretical ideal, hopefully with her at my side.

 

Just because beauty is an asset, doesn't mean it's a good thing and shouldn't be changed. Can't you really see how brainwashed you are when you say that?! yeah inteligence is a burden...If it wasn't because of high intellience, you wouldn't be here posting on an internet forum, you would be out hunting your animals...

 

By definition beauty, in itself, pure and unmixed with any other idea, is always good. In my view this is obvious.

 

Your reasoning does makes sense on that last part though, which is why I want to give back right here today. I feel like change_in_tide's case is textbook, and I wish to contribute a positive masculine presence.

 

A little salt can season this dish to great effect!

 

The people who use their fertility the most (probably they are real women to you!) are the ones who have the lowest intelligence in today's society (no offence to anyone, just stating the common pattern). I can only imagine if people sumbit to your ideas, we will go a few hundred years back instead of going forward.

 

Well again, high intelligence is a burden. This is shown from nothing more than the biological success those of lower intelligence have in breeding. Is a person's intelligence so wonderful, so magical, that the actual human experience of being alive should be lost? If so, then we're on our ironic way to George Orwell's "Animal Farm" where everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. Four legs good, two legs bad!

 

But which four legs are best?

 

Bottom line is that...men are threatened by modern women. That's why they use all these biology and fertility arguments (they even don't know the arguments well either, just on a shallow level) to scare women, to have them sleep with them although they really don't have much to offer. I'm sorry, but that won't work, not at this stage. No matter how much you try, I doubt women ever go back to that old submissive, baby popping machine role you want them to.

 

My feeling on it is this: we are still animals, and that pure, primal urge is the foundation upon which our personalities and abilities are built. Everything else is window-dressing, but that doesn't make it unimportant. Quite the opposite, because regardless of civilization or culture, the non-arranged pairing ritual always ends the same way: the males display, and the females choose. Just like it is with every other animal. Because we all have this in common.

 

We also share 96% of our DNA with that bunch of half-ripe bananas at the grocery store. Consider the inferences, which I happen to find astounding.

 

It's not like modern women have any sort of direct blame as a class. This is all about personal choices, and since we're all on our own now, it's possible to wander deep into a dark scary forest without realizing how far you'd strayed from the path. A path beaten by the footsteps of a thousand generations before.

[MissDaisy]

Strangeman.... I am extremely interested in all the things that you write, and I want to re-read everything when I have more time. I also want to know what you think about older women-younger men relationships. I have been in a few such relationships and thus perhaps should steer very clear away from them, even if the younger man is attracted or pursues.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I have a lot to write to respond to you strangeman, but it's sleep time! I'll do it tomorrow night.

[strangeman]

Strangeman.... I am extremely interested in all the things that you write, and I want to re-read everything when I have more time. I also want to know what you think about older women-younger men relationships. I have been in a few such relationships and thus perhaps should steer very clear away from them, even if the younger man is attracted or pursues.

 

I am gratified. Thank you.

 

Regarding older women and younger men, I am supportive of this and was myself a bit of a boy toy growing up. I had a 27yo gf when I was 20, and the next one was 29 when I was 21. When I was 14 I briefly had a gf who was 22. I learned from them things that younger women couldn't teach.

 

This is what I believe is the proper way to do it. Be his teacher and seduce him. Take your fill, then set him free. Rinse and repeat. This is because a true commitment from a man that is accurately described as "younger" is simply not realistic, unless there are obvious counter-weights in play.

 

But that doesn't eclipse the fantasy. A powerful, idealistic image that he can use to dazzle you into bed. It's all too easy for an attractive man, thus revealing the dark side of feminism...

 

The younger man can be attracted and pursue you because that is consistent with a pure sexual goal, leaving his options open. Under the male value system, older women are seen as easier and more experienced. There is still a very good side to this and that's why his * * * * gets hard.

 

But, expecting a commitment from him, especially if he is an A type, is not likely to be realistic. Unless 1) the woman truly is extraordinary and 2) he happens to not want, or, he already has, kids of his own.

[MissDaisy]

I am attracted to younger men, but I have no interest in seducing them for short-term purposes. In fact I do not consciously make the effort to seduce them, and I only find myself with them if THEY pursue me.... (but of course, the issue of trust is always there... do I trust, or not. I have concluded that one should not trust).

 

Also, I value long term relationships and commitment, and if this is more likely to come from an older man... then it is stressful. Older men are so rarely attractive to me. Rarely. I have been pursued by men in their late 50s and even 60s and to my disgust, it is often the case that they are married (thus want me as a mistress). On two accounts I clearly find them to be unattractive: a) because I disrespect a man who would want me as a mistress, and b) often such men are quite physically unappealing.

 

I disagree with you about point 1) that the woman would have to be truly extraordinary -- I think the opposite. I think that the younger man would have to be truly extraordinary in that he has a deep capacity to love and care about a woman regardless of her age.

 

However, I do agree: expecting a commitment from a younger man is a no-go.... few younger men are extraordinary.

[Philos]

All I want to do is find a girl to be with forever and have a child and live a happy life.

 

Just know that finding that is as difficult as you girls finding a guy.

[strangeman]

I am attracted to younger men, but I have no interest in seducing them for short-term purposes. In fact I do not consciously make the effort to seduce them, and I only find myself with them if THEY pursue me.... (but of course, the issue of trust is always there... do I trust, or not. I have concluded that one should not trust).

 

Why have you concluded this? Is it mainly because you want a commitment, which is something that cohort of men seem unable to provide?

 

Also, I value long term relationships and commitment, and if this is more likely to come from an older man... then it is stressful. Older men are so rarely attractive to me. Rarely. I have been pursued by men in their late 50s and even 60s and to my disgust, it is often the case that they are married (thus want me as a mistress). On two accounts I clearly find them to be unattractive: a) because I disrespect a man who would want me as a mistress, and b) often such men are quite physically unappealing.

 

I appreciate what you're saying. I think it comes down to how much fertility you have left. If your prime childbearing years are behind you, then the only men who can safely invest in you are those to whom your fertility is irrelevant. That leads to the mistress role, or, being the partner of a man old enough such that your relative youth/beauty is still able to raise his status.

 

I disagree with you about point 1) that the woman would have to be truly extraordinary -- I think the opposite. I think that the younger man would have to be truly extraordinary in that he has a deep capacity to love and care about a woman regardless of her age.

 

However, I do agree: expecting a commitment from a younger man is a no-go.... few younger men are extraordinary.

 

I'd say this represents two sides of the same coin. Yes, the younger man must be truly extraordinary as well. He must be so different that he does not need fertility from a woman, because fertility is the only real difference. Older women can be incredibly sexy so attractiveness is not their core issue.

 

I can also relate to your point about being mainly interested in young men. As a man, I'm mainly interested in young women. Obviously, the younger ones are the most attractive physically.

 

It's fine for you to want what you want, as long as you have some understanding of the male point of view. Men don't want to see themselves as empty vessels just waiting to be occupied by a woman's agenda; men want to lead and have a good woman at their side who wants to join up with them.

 

To say it another way, I think that men and women are different in terms of how they value physical attractiveness in the opposite sex. Still, based on what you wrote here, you sound almost more like a man in your view on this, where his attractiveness is being objectified. This in turn begs the question of what such a woman, who views men in this way, is able to provide him with in terms of income, stability, and leadership.

[strangeman]

All I want to do is find a girl to be with forever and have a child and live a happy life.

 

Just know that finding that is as difficult as you girls finding a guy.

 

Philos, in 10 years you'll find everything is different. Right now, women are ignoring you for reasons they don't fully understand.

 

Get your act together, invest in your life, and build your career. You don't need a woman for this, you need only yourself. Date casually as you can, learn how to become very good at pleasing women sexually, but don't worry about getting into LTR at this point. The women you want aren't ready for you -- yet. Eventually you'll reach the tipping point and suddenly women will become a lot more interested.

 

Until then, they'll be out partying with alpha males, acting like s1uts while at their peak sexual market value, empowering and enabling each other, and generally living the fantasy that they'll "tame the badboy" and get him to commit. The problem is that the more they do this, they are destroying their ability to bond with any particular man.

 

So, in your 30s, women will become a lot more receptive to you in general. That's when you'll want to find a woman like, say, longblackhair. Someone who is less interested in being a party girl or the feminist ideal, and more interested in true long term partnership with a MAN.

 

It's all just a numbers game, so let the women who don't want any of this self-select themselves out of the gene pool. There are more and more young women coming of age every day, so, once you're old enough to become truly attractive to women, just keep searching till you find her.

 

Until then, gird yourself for the war that is life.