Kind of a vent...

[Fudgie]

I have two best friends....a male one and a female one.

 

I'm 20 and I've been dating a 58-year-old man for months now. My best male friend knows all about us and is in full support.

 

I just told my female friend about my relationship (I took a while because she was off at college, as was I, and an internship during breaks, and I wanted to tell her in person when we got back home) and the poop really hit the fan.

I started by telling her all about him, his pets, his hobbies, and the fun things we've done together (volunteer work, parks, walking, cooking, etc.) She asked how old he was and I could barely make it past "fifty" and she had a FIT. I mean, she went nuts.

 

I was upset because she wouldn't let me speak or say anything. She said he was taking advantage of me, sexually. I asked her how that is possible when we rarely make love or do sexual things because of his sexual dysfunction...he just wants to kiss me and make out on occasion. Then she says he wants "arm candy" or wants to be young. Yet he dislikes a lot of social events, going out a lot, dancing, parties, drinking, etc. He's a homebody, like me! I explained this to her, she was silent but was still angry, and wouldn't move past the topic. I think she was just shocked and upset.

 

I guess I am just a little sad because I'd love for her to meet him and get to know him (like my male friend) and see that we really are great together. My boyfriend is a great man and treats everyone with respect. But she seems too angry to be open to that. The things she said were just out of shock and I know they aren't true but I don't know how I can get her to see that...

 

Is there anything that you think I can do to help the situation a bit? I'm hoping she'll come around once the "shock" dies down, but I don't know.

Right now, I can't talk to her without her bringing it all up again, so I'm hoping she'll calm down a bit. It must have been back in grade school the last time she flew off the handle at me, so I can't say this is normal.

 

 

[HouseKitten]

I think you might just have to give her some time to adjust to this.

 

I'm sure your aware of why this situation is difficult for her to process. I myself am 23 and my father isn't 58 yet. I'm sure she's drawn the same comparisons.

 

It's your life. Hopefully she'll adjust. I'd be prepared though, for her not being particularly welcoming if you try to bring him along on nights out (however sparse they might be). It's probably going to take a while for her to believe you're really serious about this as well. But then, maybe once she sees how you are together, she might be better able to accept it.

[Fudgie]

Oh yes, I can understand that it's difficult to swallow. My dad isn't 58 either (although he's close). She also said it was gross to date someone older than your dad. I can see why she'd say that, but I really do love my boyfriend and I had a wonderful father...they are in totally separate categories. No comparing.

 

She hasn't really talked to me since, except when I texted her earlier just to "check up" and she was still angry at me. I am not sure what to do. Should I just not talk to her at all for a while and let her come to me when she's ready?

 

We've been friends since we were in diapers. It always killed me when she was upset/hurting and it still does now.

[HouseKitten]

If you can stomach checking in with her every now and then, I'd keep doing that. Unless you're likely to lose your temper with her, because she'll probably stay angry for a little while, and the last thing you need is to fly off the handle and make it worse.

 

Worst case scenario - she never accepts this. Can you live with that? Are you prepared to put your boyfriend before the friend you've known for years?

[Fudgie]

Yeah I'm not mad with her, just upset. I will do some "checking in" via texts. I haven't lost my temper and I don't think I will because like I said, i'm not mad with her. Just sad.

 

I don't want to lose either of them. You have given me something important to think about. I would never just dump her for a boyfriend, but I also don't think that it's fair of her to make me really unhappy because she's upset with the numbers and won't give him a chance.

If she meets him, talks to him, and still says that he's a scuzzball...then that's fine and I may think twice about him. All I am asking is for is a chance.

 

For now though, I will give her lots of time and do my best to be patient and understanding with her.

 

Thank you very much, HouseKitten.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Well, all I can say is she really cares about you if this made her this angry. And don't be surprised if it affects your friendship with her. One of my dearest friends was thinking about marrying someone totally inappropriate for her (age wise and personality wise) for all the wrong reasons, I told her that I wouldn't go to her wedding, because I don't want to celebrate something that I know is not right for her, I don't want to be a part of it. I didn't care if that hurt her (although I loved her), someone had to be honest with her...I felt the same in my aunt's wedding and her marriage ended in a very ugly divorce.

[Fudgie]

It's one thing if she met him first and then hated him...but she hasn't even met him yet! Am I right in thinking that she should at least meet him before she makes a judgment?

 

My best male friend was skeptical until he met my boyfriend and has seen us together so I'm thinking maybe it will be the same for her, when she's ready.

 

I commend you for sticking to your guns, worriedgirl. Being a friend means looking out for the other person's best interests and well being, even if the person them self is not.

[teabee]

I'm kind of surprised at what I'm reading.

 

Worst case scenario - she never accepts this. Can you live with that? Are you prepared to put your boyfriend before the friend you've known for years?

 

If this friend never accepts Fudgie's relationship, then you'd see it as Fudgie putting her bf before her friend?

 

Well, all I can say is she really cares about you if this made her this angry. And don't be surprised if it affects your friendship with her. One of my dearest friends was thinking about marrying someone totally inappropriate for her (age wise and personality wise) for all the wrong reasons, I told her that I wouldn't go to her wedding, because I don't want to celebrate something that I know is not right for her, I don't want to be a part of it. I didn't care if that hurt her (although I loved her), someone had to be honest with her...I felt the same in my aunt's wedding and her marriage ended in a very ugly divorce.

 

Do you let it affect your relationships with these people? I think you can disapprove of a person's relationship without letting it get in the way of your own relationship with that person. After all, what does a friend's significant other have to do with YOUR relationship with that friend?

[teabee]

I have the same problem Fudgie. One of my closest girlfriends hands down does not approve of my boyfriend, and I've been with him for a year. It hurts my feelings that she doesn't trust me enough to give me the benefit of the doubt, nor is she open enough to reserve judgment until after she meets him. Never having met him, it's actually pretty silly on her part--or anyone's part--to base their entire opinion of the relationship, not on personalities, not on the dynamics of the two people, but solely on age. I don't mention my bf to her that much because she will take any opening to bash him or spin something negatively. Anything I say can and will be used against me to plant the idea in my head that I should end my relationship. Even if she didn't do those things, yet still refused to accept it, it would still hurt because it means she can't share in my joy with me. I've been over the moon happy with my bf and I've changed for the better, learned things about myself and relationships... all exciting things that I'd like to share with my best girlfriend, but can't. So I understand you and I sympathize with you. It's an unpleasant situation.

 

She has gotten better though. I'm working on her slowly by casually telling her about the nice things that he's done (yet sometimes all these positive things seem to go in one ear, out the other). She is even open to meeting him sometime soon. Mostly it doesn't change our friendship at all. I still love her and see her the same way, although I'm disappointed that she's been so judgmental, and she still loves me and sees me as the same old teabee, even though I'm involved in a relationship that she finds offensive.

 

In the end, we're happy with our boyfriend's, Fudgie, and we're not the ones that need to change to make anyone else feel better or more comfortable. It is not my problem that my friend doesn't approve of my relationship, and it is not my job to change for her comfort. Your friend will come around. It may take a very long time, and she may never fully approve, but eventually she will accept it. She is not a good friend if she let's it come between you and her.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I'm kind of surprised at what I'm reading.

 

 

 

If this friend never accepts Fudgie's relationship, then you'd see it as Fudgie putting her bf before her friend?

 

 

 

Do you let it affect your relationships with these people? I think you can disapprove of a person's relationship without letting it get in the way of your own relationship with that person. After all, what does a friend's significant other have to do with YOUR relationship with that friend?

 

Yes I do, specially if I really care for that friend. Some of my friends went into relationships I didn't approve of, but I stayed there for them. When I really really love someone, I can't see them doing that to themselves, I just can't. It's like when your friend says to you "I have a knife and I want to stab/cut myself on different parts of my body, one cut a day. This is my decision and if you are my friend you will be there for me, watching me doing this...". A real friend imo isn't the one who supports whatever decision you make, but the one who tries to be honest with you and help you understand your mistakes.

[HouseKitten]

I'm kind of surprised at what I'm reading.

 

If this friend never accepts Fudgie's relationship, then you'd see it as Fudgie putting her bf before her friend?

 

If her friend never accepts it then it might well come down to that, choosing whether she wants her relationship or her friendship. I don't mean it badly - if her boyfriend makes her happier then that's not unusual, I've never been one to say friends always come before lovers. She might have to decide, that's all - it's something to think about.

[teabee]

Yes I do, specially if I really care for that friend. Some of my friends went into relationships I didn't approve of, but I stayed there for them. When I really really love someone, I can't see them doing that to themselves, I just can't. It's like when your friend says to you "I have a knife and I want to stab/cut myself on different parts of my body, one cut a day. This is my decision and if you are my friend you will be there for me, watching me doing this...". A real friend imo isn't the one who supports whatever decision you make, but the one who tries to be honest with you and help you understand your mistakes.

 

Honesty is one thing, but who are you to point out what "mistakes" a person is making? They are mistakes in your opinion only.

[teabee]

If her friend never accepts it then it might well come down to that, choosing whether she wants her relationship or her friendship. I don't mean it badly - if her boyfriend makes her happier then that's not unusual, I've never been one to say friends always come before lovers. She might have to decide, that's all - it's something to think about.

 

It's a possibility, but hopefully she'd never have to decide. I cannot imagine any one of my friends asking me to make a decision like that! I wouldn't think much of their friendship if that were the case.

[greywolf]

Tell her that it's your life, and your decision. You don't need her approval to do the things that make you happy.

[sweetpea03]

I think you just need to give her time. I had a number of friends who didn't like the idea of me and my boyfriend, who is almost 11 years older. It took a friend of mine a couple months to start being supportive of it all. It would be nice if people could see past the age differences, but a lot of people don't. In time I think a lot of people can come around and then you can see who will really be there for you.

[Fudgie]

Thanks guys. I will just "check in" with her periodically and such to see how she is.

 

At this point, I'm just hoping for tolerance if I can't get acceptance. I do love her and don't want to lose her or my boyfriend.

 

I hope I won't have to choose. If she just won't meet him and hates him - well, that's her choice. But I hope she calms down and can move on from it so we can continue being friends.

 

I'm going to give her all the time she needs. Maybe she'll come around.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Honesty is one thing, but who are you to point out what "mistakes" a person is making? They are mistakes in your opinion only.

 

heh, trust me, if I stop my friendship with a friend for something, she definitely is doing it wrong and it's not just "my opinion".

[Tanzi]

heh, trust me, if I stop my friendship with a friend for something, she definitely is doing it wrong and it's not just "my opinion".

 

Thats not really being a friend though is it? Wouldn't a true friend be there for someone whatever decision they make or situation they are in ... as long as they aren't hurting others of course. A friend of mine got into a relationship that I didn't think was good for her but I would never have dreamt of falling out with her. Its her life, her decision and her mistake that she had to make. Sometimes we need to make our own mistakes to truly learn from them. I didn't judge her, I didn't preach to her and I didn't pressure her but I knew I would be there for her if (as it did) it all went wrong.

 

Fudgie, I expect your friend is in shock. I think the only thing you can do is give her time. I am sure she will eventually come round as she starts to get used to the idea and when she realises you are serious about this man and that he makes you happy.

[Fudgie]

UPDATE:

 

Haven't talked to her yet (that is, in person or over the phone), but we have sent text messages. I think she is "calming down" a little, mostly because she doesn't seem to be as angry and is more joking about it. It's a little hurtful but I think it's part of the process of her going through shock and getting used to it, so I have been calm and understanding.

 

I think things are going to be okay, just don't know when. I will continue to take it slow.

[PhilliesFan001]

It's a huge age gap so I can understand friends being surprised/taken aback/maybe a little uneasy at first, but..angry? What right does she have to be *angry* with you over who you're dating? I find that a little odd.

 

I'd give her some time to cool off, like the others said, check in every now and again. When some time passes, ask if she wants to meet him and give him a shot. If she still refuses, there's not a lot you can do. She'll either come around or she won't, and you have to be prepared for the latter.

 

You're doing nothing wrong. Some people might say otherwise because of the numbers, but if you're happy and in a healthy relationship then you have nothing to apologize for. If she can't accept it, be a friend and at least MEET the guy before she judges, then that's her problem and you should let her go.

 

*Edit: Just saw your update. It's good that she's cooling off a little. As far as the joking goes, I can relate. My fiance is only 7 years older than me, but we started dating when I was 18 and he was 25 so you can imagine my friends thought it was outrageous and weird. They were supportive, but I had to bear a lot of very hurtful jokes for the first year or so (including some "child molester" ones..those were nice). It's been 5 years and occasionally they still make the odd comment, like his birthday is coming up and one asked "He's turning 30 now right? Jesus." Meh, let it roll off your back.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Well, maybe that is what people call "tough love". I guess we agree to disagree. A true friend is not the one who supports her friend in whatever decision she makes. What if she wants to kill herself? Or like abort her baby when she is 8 months pregnant? Or drop out of school to do coke at home everyday? they are all her decisions, but most people aren't going to support a person who makes those decisions. I've had my friends and family coming to me when they had a problem, I helped them as much as I could, spent a lot of energy for them, guess what? they didn't listen to me or even cared, did whatever they wanted and still kept complaining to me! I'm sick of it...

 

I'll be honest. If my sister wanted to get into a very large age gap relationship (like the one fudgie is in), I'd be opposed to it because I don't think it would be a good decision for long term and of course I want the best for my dearest friends/family members. I would also want to know why she is doing it. Is it because she is insecure and thinks she only can get attention from older men? is it because she feels the need for someone to support her and is looking for a father figure? Just saying "I'm happy now" or "I love him" wouldn't be enough of an answer for me. I mean a kid who doesn't go to school and play around is probably also "happy at the moment", but probably won't be happy when he is 25 and has no skills to make a decent living with.

[Miss Firecracker]

I can understand why your friend feels this way.

 

There is no way on earth I could be a friend to a man that age who would sleep with a 20 year old girl. It's very easy to see why the young person is drawn to this type of relationship. But the older man knows what he is doing, and I wouldn't be able to deal with that. So I would likely have to end a friendship with the young person involved because I see her as being taken advantage of, and I wouldn't be able to handle that. But that is just me.

[Fudgie]

Well, Miss Fire Cracker, my boyfriend and I don't really have sex. He's not able to due to his health problems and has a very low libido. He could go on Viagra but he refused and said that he's just happy being with me. We do other romantic things together, but not really sexual. We may have sex once in a great, great while, but I always initiate

 

I just get kind of mad when people say immediately "you're being taken advantage of" without even knowing the guy. If we were the stereotypical large age gap couple, then maybe. But we don't have sex. He isn't very wealthy and doesn't spoil me with money. We have common interests and love to go to parks together and take pictures of birds and animals. We really love photography.

 

Why am I with him? I really do love him. I have always loved older men too because I find that I have more in common with them. It has been so hard to find an older guy who is genuinely mature and "his age" mentally and yet open to dating me because I am so much younger. I have a wonderful father in my life (always have) and I think being with an older man mimics my relationship with my father, which has been the BEST relationship I have had. My boyfriend is by no means a father figure though, I am the dominant one while he's quiet and supportive. He rarely brings up the age difference and says that he rarely sees it when we're together. I'm the first younger woman he's been with. He had considered it in the past (although with women in their 30s) but found that they were too immature and didn't have enough in common with him. He also didn't want kids.

 

If I was your typical 20 year old, then I could see how I would be "taken advantage" of. But I'm not. I'm often mistaken for being in my late 20s to early 30s due to my body shape and appearance. I don't party/drink/smoke or go out late at night. I'm on a lot of medication for health issues. I'm asleep by 11pm most nights which works out well for the boyfriend. I look forward to settling down when I am done with my school...just getting married, having a career, and setting up a home. I can't wait for that.

 

Maybe I'm weird. I had to grow up fast. I never fit in with kids my age growing up due to circumstances and always sought solace and friendship with adults. I've dated guys my own age and it ended up being terrible. For once my life, I have the relationship that I have always wanted because the man is respectful, open (even to the point of TMI), willing to discuss problems, and he's been through a lot and wants to help me through my own "firsts" and I will help him through his. I would like people to see that we are different and at least give us a chance before jumping down his throat. Luckily, I have had a few friends (including my VERY SKEPTICAL male friends who was TOTALLY against it in the beginning) meet him and now they support us.

 

Is that too much to ask for? Just a chance?

 

I'm hoping my friend will give us one. She is warming up slightly and not as angry. I am giving her all the time she needs.

[teabee]

Well, maybe that is what people call "tough love". I guess we agree to disagree. A true friend is not the one who supports her friend in whatever decision she makes. What if she wants to kill herself? Or like abort her baby when she is 8 months pregnant? Or drop out of school to do coke at home everyday? they are all her decisions, but most people aren't going to support a person who makes those decisions. I've had my friends and family coming to me when they had a problem, I helped them as much as I could, spent a lot of energy for them, guess what? they didn't listen to me or even cared, did whatever they wanted and still kept complaining to me! I'm sick of it...

 

Can't really compare a friend wanting to kill themselves or doing coke every day to being in a relationship you don't approve of Those decisions are definitely harmful. Being in a particular relationship--unless it is outright abusive and clearly unhealthy--probably not that harmful.

 

Plus with the drugs/suicidal/abortion examples, even with things like that there's still a distinction between a person and a person's choices. I can separate the two and be there for a person despite their harmful choices. Although I totally identify with the last bit--when you've put in time and energy to help a person and they refuse to change anything, but keep complaining... that's when I reach the end of my rope too. There are certainly circumstances where support should be withdrawn!!

 

I'll be honest. If my sister wanted to get into a very large age gap relationship (like the one fudgie is in), I'd be opposed to it because I don't think it would be a good decision for long term and of course I want the best for my dearest friends/family members. I would also want to know why she is doing it. Is it because she is insecure and thinks she only can get attention from older men? is it because she feels the need for someone to support her and is looking for a father figure? Just saying "I'm happy now" or "I love him" wouldn't be enough of an answer for me.

So no positive answer would be enough of an answer for you? Because that's what it sounds like. It has to be "I'm with him because I'm insecure" or "I'm with him because I have daddy issues." There are way more possibilities than just negative ones, but you don't seem open to that.

 

I mean a kid who doesn't go to school and play around is probably also "happy at the moment", but probably won't be happy when he is 25 and has no skills to make a decent living with.

 

I understand what you're saying. You're saying you can't accept current happiness as a good enough reason to be with someone so much older because to you that lacks foresight and good long-term judgment. But I don't see it as irresponsible. I think most people would agree with the old cliche, "it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." Love always involves risks and uncertain futures. Age gap relationships are just the same as other relationships in that the future is uncertain no matter what.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Can't really compare a friend wanting to kill themselves or doing coke every day to being in a relationship you don't approve of Those decisions are definitely harmful. Being in a particular relationship--unless it is outright abusive and clearly unhealthy--probably not that harmful.

 

I was just implying how "A friend should always be there" does not make much sense. When it comes to your loved ones, a relationship shouldn't be just "outright abusive" for you to be bothered by it. Anything less than good or perfect is not acceptable.

 

Plus with the drugs/suicidal/abortion examples, even with things like that there's still a distinction between a person and a person's choices. I can separate the two and be there for a person despite their harmful choices.

 

Are you going to be supportive of their harmful decisions tho? Are you going to accept those decisions? They might think those are the best decisions, but you know they clearly are not.

 

It would hurt me so much to see a loved one harming themselves and society like that, so unless they want to get help and change, I can't be there for them and see them doing this to themselves. I made my stupid mistakes too and I wish someone told me and set me straight at the time.

 

I understand what you're saying. You're saying you can't accept current happiness as a good enough reason to be with someone so much older because to you that lacks foresight and good long-term judgment. But I don't see it as irresponsible. I think most people would agree with the old cliche, "it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." Love always involves risks and uncertain futures. Age gap relationships are just the same as other relationships in that the future is uncertain no matter what.

 

We all take risks all the time. But we try to take the ones with the least possibility to happen. For example most people would laugh at me if I said "I wanna marry a 70 year old guy and live a long happy life with him". Because it will most probably not happen. Yes, all relationships involve uncertainty but big age gap ones have it to a larger degree.

 

I also like to say that I wouldn't necessarily end my friendship with someone because of an age gap relationship (after I make sure the guy or the girl is not there to take advantage), but I wouldn't be thrilled by it either.