Kind of a vent...

[Fudgie]

It's fine if you don't want to take that risk. But why get in the way of others taking that risk? They aren't hurting themselves or anyone else.

I'm fully aware of what I'm doing. I don't expect to live a long life with him. A happy one? Yes. But I'm not deluding myself, I know it won't be long like 30 years or something.

 

My friends do some dumb things that I would never want them to do. They go to parties with strange people (at least I consider them strange) and drink a little too much. It's a risk...they could get sick, drugged, or raped. Does that mean I have to step in and be like "NO DON'T TAKE THAT RISK!! RAWR" No. It's their personal choice. I may think it's stupid and I wouldn't do it myself, but I can't always impose myself on them.

 

I pick my fights. If I see a friend drinking 15 beers, doing illegal drugs, getting a prostitute, being suicidal, cutting themselves, etc (I once wrestled a friend to the floor when I saw her cutting herself on MY bed and wouldn't stop)...that's when I'll step in.

 

Not all friends are going to have the same values of you. I think it's foolish to fight with them when they don't do what you would do. Instead, why not understand their relationships and where they are coming from? You may not agree in the end, but maybe you can live with it.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Because I love them?! I probably wouldn't care at all if a friend I didn't care much about about did something like that. But I want the best for the ones I care about. I wouldn't be happy if they went out with a stranger every night either. Like I said, an age gap relationship is not necessarily something I end a friendship for, but I probably wouldn't celebrate it with them either.

[Fudgie]

Because I love them?! I probably wouldn't care at all if a friend I didn't care much about about did something like that. But I want the best for the ones I care about. I wouldn't be happy if they went out with a stranger every night either. Like I said, an age gap relationship is not necessarily something I end a friendship for, but I wouldn't celebrate it with them either.

 

Now this I can agree with.

This reminds me of a situation I saw between 2 of my friends. One is a devout Christian and the other is a very liberal lesbian who recently came out of the closet. The lesbian friend got VERY angry with the Christian because while she was respectful of her homosexuality, she wasn't celebrating it (ie congratulating her on a new girlfriend or going to the parades with her). The Christian friend said that she felt homosexuality was a sin and while she felt that her lesbian friend was in the wrong, she was still going to be respectful and TOLERANT, but not accepting. She said she still wanted to be friends.

My lesbian friend flew off the handle, but I could see what my Christian friend was saying, and I agreed.

 

At this point, my boyfriend and I have been together for a while now. We are definitely serious. I would not want to break off from him just because someone doesn't like it and I can accept that some people won't like it.

I guess all I'm hoping to get is tolerance, not acceptance. It's totally fine if my friend doesn't agree with it...I just don't want her to bash me or him or be really rude or try to sabotage it "for my benefit". I think that's horrible. I'm hoping we can continue being friends...I just won't have her meet him and I won't bring him up while we're together. She may never like what I'm doing but we could have a truce...she won't pick on me and I won't fight back about it as long as we don't bring it up.

 

Does that make sense? I don't want to fight.

[teabee]

I was just implying how "A friend should always be there" does not make much sense.

 

That's true, I'd agree with that

 

When it comes to your loved ones, a relationship shouldn't be just "outright abusive" for you to be bothered by it. Anything less than good or perfect is not acceptable.

 

I didn't mean abuse is the only thing that could come into play in a relationship that might bother you. I meant a relationship, unless it's abusive and clearly unhealthy, is not a cut and dry harmful situation like getting into drugs or some of the other earlier examples that were being used in comparison.

 

And I could never be the judge of what is good and perfect for another person. It's hard enough to sort out my own desires. It's hard enough to understand the many subtle experiences that have led to my particular balance of needs in a relationship and how some people fulfill those needs with their own unique personalities and experiences being brought to the table. With everything that's at work, I can't imagine looking in from the outside on someone ELSE'S relationship and making the judgment that it's not acceptable, especially if that person is HAPPY. If I could successfully judge what's right for everyone else I think next I'd give being God a shot.

 

Are you going to be supportive of their harmful decisions tho? Are you going to accept those decisions? They might think those are the best decisions, but you know they clearly are not.

 

What I meant by separating a person from that person's decisions is that I don't have to support the decisions and I can still support the person. So no, I definitely wouldn't support harmful decisions. And if you make the distinction between "acceptance" and "support" then yes I can accept harmful decisions. "I do not support your decision to _____ and I wish you wouldn't, but it's your life and I can accept that it's your choice to make and not mine."

 

We all take risks all the time. But we try to take the ones with the least possibility to happen. For example most people would laugh at me if I said "I wanna marry a 70 year old guy and live a long happy life with him". Because it will most probably not happen. Yes, all relationships involve uncertainty but big age gap ones have it to a larger degree. Again, not a risk I would want a loved one to take.

 

That's fair that you wouldn't want your loved ones to take bigger risks than necessary. IF that were your only reason for disagreeing with age gap relationships than I'd say you have a pretty kind heart to be against it purely in the interest of each person's long-term happiness. And then I'd say, "Too bad." You can't control which risks other people are going to take. Life is so much easier when you let yourself be entirely responsible for your own well-being only, and let other people who are capable of making their own choices be in charge of their own decisions, risks, and well-being.

[teabee]

I guess all I'm hoping to get is tolerance, not acceptance[/u]. It's totally fine if my friend doesn't agree with it...I just don't want her to bash me or him or be really rude or try to sabotage it "for my benefit".

 

That's fair. I want that too! It doesn't seem like too much to ask. I hope your friend gets this, and I hope the people in my life get this too.

[Sparkly Eyes]

You will probably get tolerance...But don't be surprised if it affects your friendship with her. I know it wouldn't be the same for me if I were her.

 

It's just a very hard situation to be in Fudgie, for you and your friend...I hope with time you guys can get along.

[Sanesoul]

Life is so much easier when you let yourself be entirely responsible for your own well-being only, and let other people who are capable of making their own choices be in charge of their own decisions, risks, and well-being.

 

This is exactly why I haven't been posting on this forum for a bit. I can be an angry mama bear, and do not approve of 20+ year gaps...for my own reasons I don't care to share. I'll always be that way.

 

It's not worth my mental energy to care what other people do anymore, unless it is harmful to others outside themselves.

 

Now I get heated in the infidelity forum...

[Fudgie]

Thanks worriedgirl. It is hard and I'm hoping it will go through okay.

 

I wonder what may change. See, we used to talk about boys/sex all the time "back in the day" starting when we were only 12! (Both of us were virgins). By now, I have only had 2 sexual partners and she had 10 but I never held it against her. We used to give each other advice and it was fun. Now we may not be able to do that because I may not be able to even bring up my boyfriend. And will she be uncomfortable with me now in general? It upsets me to think about it but I can't jump to conclusions now without knowing her thoughts now.

 

Just gotta give it more time.

[Fudgie]

This is exactly why I haven't been posting on this forum for a bit. I can be an angry mama bear, and do not approve of 20+ year gaps...for my own reasons I don't care to share. I'll always be that way.

 

It's not worth my mental energy to care what other people do anymore, unless it is harmful to others outside themselves.

 

Now I get heated in the infidelity forum...

 

I guess we all have things that we don't like and can try to stop others even when it's not right. It happens. It sounds like you didn't have a very good experience and I'm sorry to hear that. But experiences make us who we are and we're all different. I bet it's different if you have children too and you don't want them to be taken advantage of.

 

I often can't post in threads involving parties/drinking/drugs because I am very anti-that (all of it!) and I could really make people mad.

[Sparkly Eyes]

 

That's fair that you wouldn't want your loved ones to take bigger risks than necessary. IF that were your only reason for disagreeing with age gap relationships than I'd say you have a pretty kind heart to be against it purely in the interest of each person's long-term happiness. And then I'd say, "Too bad." You can't control which risks other people are going to take. Life is so much easier when you let yourself be entirely responsible for your own well-being only, and let other people who are capable of making their own choices be in charge of their own decisions, risks, and well-being.

 

The reason I mentioned my sister in my example is that her happiness is my happiness. She is another version of me and is very important to me. I don't think about "having an easy life" when it comes to her.

 

And no, the long term risk is not the only problem I have with age gap relationships, tho it is a big one. More often than not, these relationships develop for the wrong reasons. And like another poster said, I can see why a younger girl would be drawn to them, but the older guy should know better.

[teabee]

This is exactly why I haven't been posting on this forum for a bit. I can be an angry mama bear, and do not approve of 20+ year gaps...for my own reasons I don't care to share. I'll always be that way.

 

It's not worth my mental energy to care what other people do anymore, unless it is harmful to others outside themselves.

 

Now I get heated in the infidelity forum...

 

It is a hard lesson to learn though isn't it? We all get caught up on that one somewhere. For me I can be a little overly controlling when it comes to my mom (complicated situation) and one of the most important things I've learned is that 1. I can be ok even if she's not ok, so sometimes I need to step back and let things happen, good or bad, and 2. I actually can't decide what's good or bad for her, she has to do it and will thrive better that way than if I were in control. We (us human beings) need to learn to look out for each other in moderation and without trying to control anyone but ourselves.

 

And I understand the mama bear instincts, especially if on top of that you've had experiences that made you especially wary of large age gap relationships. Like Fudgie said, we're all going to have our different experiences that give us different biases. That's why it's impossible to make certain decisions for other people because something that's not right for you might be just right for me and vice versa. Infidelity... now there's something most of us can get on the same side about.

[Sanesoul]

I'm still struggling with it, in every way.

 

I have to be in control of everything and everyone because my childhood was so friggen out of control...from the time I was 6 until late teens.

 

I also have a lot of anger issues.

 

It's a struggle, for sure. I've chosen the route of apathy, or I at least try to.

 

(sorry for derailing your thread Fudgie)

[teabee]

I'm still struggling with it, in every way.

 

I have to be in control of everything and everyone because my childhood was so friggen out of control...from the time I was 6 until late teens.

 

I also have a lot of anger issues.

 

It's a struggle, for sure. I've chosen the route of apathy, or I at least try to.

 

(sorry for derailing your thread Fudgie)

 

Wow, I can so relate. I am just recently working through my childhood and I have the same issue. I took responsibility and control where no one else was. I grew up fast, took on the role of taking care of others and fixing things because no one else could be depended on, and that led to me trying to take too much control of everything even now. Based on what you've written it sounds like your struggles have been more severe, so I can relate yet I don't pretend to understand completely

 

(Yes, sorry Fudgie)

[teabee]

The reason I mentioned my sister in my example is that her happiness is my happiness. She is another version of me and is very important to me. I don't think about "having an easy life" when it comes to her.

 

I've seen you mention your sister plenty of times and it's really nice to see how much you care for her. I didn't mean we should mind our own business so life is "easy." I should have chosen a different way to say it.

 

And no, the long term risk is not the only problem I have with age gap relationships, tho it is a big one. More often than not, these relationships develop for the wrong reasons. And like another poster said, I can see why a younger girl would be drawn to them, but the older guy should know better.

 

Seems to me that more often than not they develop just like any other relationship.

[Fudgie]

I don't mind guys, really, it's okay.

 

It sounds like you went through a lot and had a lot of pain, Insane Heart. I'm sorry to hear it. I can understand the control issues too.

It's a struggle everyday but it sounds like you're working through in your own way.

 

teabee, I agree...I don't think these kinds of relationships ALWAYS develop for the wrong reasons. Sometimes, they do...and sometimes they don't.

 

I know another age gap couple and it's all about the MONEY MONEY MONEY. Rather sad, really. Unfortunately, I think they BOTH know what they are doing. I think they are cheating themselves, not each other, because they put up with the sham just for the money and they won't find love.

I would hate for me and my boyfriend to be told that we are in it for the "wrong reasons" just because others are (we haven't been accused of such by people who actually know us, though). It's fine if you observe someone personally and say "well, I think they have the wrong reasons"....but I wouldn't throw everyone into that category.

 

In the end, all I know is that I do love him and I enjoy every moment of time with him. He's sarcastic (good thing), well-read, predictable, kind, sensitive (without admitting it), and he just "gets" me and supports me emotionally. I love his dogs too. It took him a while to really open up and trust me, because he has been hurt emotionally in the past. you know, maybe I am a little weird for being attracted to someone so much older...it may have to do with the fact that I never really spent time with people my own age growing up...just older folk, usually patients, through my parents. Is that out of the norm? Yes. But it was my experience and it made me who I am today.

 

I want everyone to find their own happiness in one way or another.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Seems to me that more often than not they develop just like any other relationship.

 

That has NOT been true for the few cases I have observed in my life and the cases that I have heard about. Not saying same age relationships can't be for the wrong reasons but again the possibility is much higher when it comes to age gap ones.

[Fudgie]

That has NOT been true for the few cases I have observed in my life and the cases that I have heard about. Not saying same age relationships can't be for the wrong reasons but again the possibility is much higher when it comes to age gap ones.

 

Sadly, yes, I have to agree, I think the possibility is HIGHER. Doesn't mean it always happens, but it is higher. Let's face it...there are gold diggers out there and while they may want someone their own age who is rich, they often end up having to marry rich older men to get what they want. *sigh*

 

I don't think society helps very much either. Seeing celebrities like Anna Nichole Smith marrying/kissing that half-dead oil tycoon was just SICKENING because I knew she didn't really love him.

[teabee]

That has NOT been true for the few cases I have observed in my life and the cases that I have heard about. Not saying same age relationships can't be for the wrong reasons but again the possibility is much higher when it comes to age gap ones.

 

Yeah, it does seem like there would be a higher instance of "bad" age gap relationships than "bad" same-age relationships, but I can only think of one example I've personally encountered where things were quite shady, and that's from a woman going through treatment at the recovery home where I work. The vast majority of those clients have relationships that are messed up and so I certainly wouldn't regard her messed up age gap relationship as typical or as the rule for age gaps.

 

Then I've encountered 2 other age gap relationships and both of those were fine and normal. Seemed like a scenario similar to mine where 1. the younger person got along better with older people in general and 2. neither partner was seeking out a certain age, rather things just happened.

 

Then what I've been taking from ENA is fairly positive. It seems (to me) that most people have happy age gap relationships where the problems are only coming from people outside the relationship. In the minority of posts there's something going wrong with the actual relationship itself, and in those cases, the age gap isn't even always the problem. So those are my observations so far.

 

I'm thinking unhealthy age gap relationships aren't the rule, though I would agree there is more potential for power differences, manipulation, and those kinds of things.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Sadly, yes, I have to agree, I think the possibility is HIGHER. Doesn't mean it always happens, but it is higher. Let's face it...there are gold diggers out there and while they may want someone their own age who is rich, they often end up having to marry rich older men to get what they want. *sigh*

 

I don't think society helps very much either. Seeing celebrities like Anna Nichole Smith marrying/kissing that half-dead oil tycoon was just SICKENING because I knew she didn't really love him.

 

Or the mail order brides to get young girls from russia or asia for old guys. Basically trade youth for money, power, attention...

 

Yeah, it does seem like there would be a higher instance of "bad" age gap relationships than "bad" same-age relationships, but I can only think of one example I've personally encountered where things were quite shady, and that's from a woman going through treatment at the recovery home where I work. The vast majority of those clients have relationships that are messed up and so I certainly wouldn't regard her messed up age gap relationship as typical or as the rule for age gaps.

 

Then I've encountered 2 other age gap relationships and both of those were fine and normal. Seemed like a scenario similar to mine where 1. the younger person got along better with older people in general and 2. neither partner was seeking out a certain age, rather things just happened.

 

Then what I've been taking from ENA is fairly positive. It seems (to me) that most people have happy age gap relationships where the problems are only coming from people outside the relationship. In the minority of posts there's something going wrong with the actual relationship itself, and in those cases, the age gap isn't even always the problem. So those are my observations so far.

 

I'm thinking unhealthy age gap relationships aren't the rule, though I would agree there is more potential for power differences, manipulation, and those kinds of things.

 

Honestly, I don't judge from ENA or count on whatever I read here as the reality...I'm sure if those few people I know came here when they started their relationship, they would sell it to everybody like one perfect relationship...One of them always fought with me on the topic, she was even afraid to tell me the guy's age. At the end, one day she admitted how she just needed love and was lonely and he was the guy who gave it to her, used her for sex, led her on and dumped her after a while. The other one I know from close was the same. The guy married a younger girl a year or two after his wife's death, he was horrible to his ex wife but awesome to the new young girl. Of course that made his children very mad. He had two kids with the new girl and died after like 12 years. I'm sure if his wife was here she would say how they are happy and his family won't leave them alone!

 

With you guys, All I can do is accepting what you say as the reality of how you feel (although with some posters I couldn't even believe them) but I would never know what is in your SOs minds and how do they look at you and your relationships.

[Fudgie]

Wow that's a sucky story worriedgirl. Sadly, there are people out there like that.

 

Isn't true though that no one really knows what is in our S.O.'s mind for real? And doesn't that go for anyone of any age?

All we can do is rely on our instincts and analyze the actions/words of our partners.

[teabee]

One of them always fought with me on the topic, she was even afraid to tell me the guy's age. At the end, one day she admitted how she just needed love and was lonely and he was the guy who gave it to her, used her for sex, led her on and dumped her after a while.

Ouch, that's no good. I've known plenty of people who have had this done to them by people their own age (in fact many guys in their early 20's are SO good at pulling crap like this), but it is easier if there's a power difference, and that can definitely occur with an age gap.

 

The other one I know from close was the same. The guy married a younger girl a year or two after his wife's death, he was horrible to his ex wife but awesome to the new young girl. Of course that made his children very mad. He had two kids with the new girl and died after like 12 years. I'm sure if his wife was here she would say how they are happy and his family won't leave them alone!

 

His family not leaving them alone doesn't mean they weren't happy or didn't have a good relationship. It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong there (based on that at least) although it is sad that they only got to be together for 12 years.

 

With you guys, All I can do is accepting what you say as the reality of how you feel (although with some posters I couldn't even believe them) but I would never know what is in your SOs minds and how do they look at you and your relationships.

 

Yeah, there's no good reason to trust "We're so happy and he loves me a lot!" but then again there's no good reason NOT to trust it unless the details of the relationship are shared and some bad patterns can be picked out.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Ouch, that's no good. I've known plenty of people who have had this done to them by people their own age (in fact many guys in their early 20's are SO good at pulling crap like this), but it is easier if there's a power difference, and that can definitely occur with an age gap.

 

 

Doesn't matter...he is freaking 40 something years old, he should know better than do this to a vulnerable 19 year old. I don't expect the maturity of a 18 year old of a 40 something guy. Seriously, I think you should stop covering up for older men. It's way more disgusting for an older men to do something like this than for a younger inexperienced one, he had 20 years to grow up, yet he chose to take advantage of a young girl.

 

If you think your relationship is awesome, that's fine and I might even agree with you, but that doesn't mean that you have to find a way to explain any age gap relationship where you don't even know the people in it.

 

His family not leaving them alone doesn't mean they weren't happy or didn't have a good relationship. It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong there (based on that at least) although it is sad that they only got to be together for 12 years.

 

Again the same thing. The guy was a tool, everybody knew. He treated his ex wife like crap and had a new girl just because she was young and although he knew he was very old, he still had kids. Like I said, I know this couple from close and I know the girl didn't marry her for love either. This is where I say they married for the wrong reasons...Also they live in a culture that the woman might possibly never marry after the death of the husband.

[teabee]

Doesn't matter...he is freaking 40 something years old, he should know better than do this to a vulnerable 19 year old. I don't expect the maturity of a 18 year old of a 40 something guy. Seriously, I think you should stop covering up for older men. It's way more disgusting for an older men to do something like this than for a younger inexperienced one, he had 20 years to grow up, yet he chose to take advantage of a young girl.

Uh I'm not covering for anyone. Period. I'm pointing out that to make the assumption that manipulation is solely a factor when there's a big age difference is false. I have found younger men to be the ones more likely to manipulate and use other people for sex. It is not ok when ANYONE does it, and yes, it is particularly loathsome when it's someone older preying upon someone young and naive. Totally gross and wrong. I don't "cover" for any person who uses someone else, especially someone in a vulnerable position, due to age or whatever else. I have no soft spot for creeps.

 

Again the same thing. The guy was a tool, everybody knew. He treated his ex wife like crap and had a new girl just because she was young and although he knew he was very old, he still had kids. Like I said, I know this couple from close and I know the girl didn't marry her for love either. This is where I say they married for the wrong reasons...Also they live in a culture that the woman might possibly never marry after the death of the husband.

Sounds like a pretty isolated example. But I see your point: older guy who is a real ahole, wrong reasons to get together, irresponsible to have kids, etc. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth, and I do see now what you are thinking of when it comes to age gaps and why you tend towards disagreeing with them.

[Fudgie]

I agree with teabee. I won't judge against/for age gaps without knowing enough about it.

 

There was a thread in here where a woman who is 18 already had 2 babies (one was on the way) with someone 25 years her senior. I posted that it bothered me that she was So young, basically having babies in freaking high school...I got slammed because "her gap is bigger than yours so SHUT UP". Well...so? It's not about the gap. The fact that bothered me was that the young women seemed quite immature, was already having children (most likely started when she was under 18 ), wanted more, and was not in school to further herself and support her children in the future.

 

Anyone who knows me well can tell you that I am 100% against pedophiles. I was taken advantage of a mentally-disturbed older man (not sexually exactly, but other ways) but I have moved on for the better. I have ZERO tolerance for pedophiles. I got an profanity infraction here recently because a woman posted about her teacher husband was off texting/kissing 14 year old girls and wasn't sure if "therapy could cure" this monster and I TOTALLY lost it.

 

Age gaps aren't for everyone. In fact, I would not recommend them to many in my age group. Knowing my less mature friends and how they are with partying/relationships/what they want out of life, I would be very worried if one of them started dating an older man. I'm a calm, settled, career-driven woman who is a homebody...and I just happen to be 20 years old. My boyfriend is the same way...he just happens to be a little older. If I truly acted my age (immature compared to him) and had NO common interests with him...then no, I shouldn't be with him.

[1inlove]

It's sad, but some people are so stuck in what society says is correct or wrong that they can't see true beauty even when it's right in front of them. They miss the glow that love makes a woman emit. They miss the fact that you've never smiled that ever before. They miss the fact that you're finally happy. Many people are that way with me. My fiance is 45 and I am 21. I understand how you feel. In order to be in this sort of relationship, we have to learn how to let other people's opinions roll off our backs and sometimes, to lose friends. I have lost friends and respect over my relationship, but it's beyond worth it.