Saying mean things in anger... :(

[XxJustMexX]

Whether we like to admit it or not, we've all done it... You and your partner are arguing, and in the heat of the moment, you or they blurt out some very mean things to try to dig the knife deeper...

 

Yesterday, my ex and I were texting a bit, and after I confronted him about his withdrawing from me so much (we broke up shortly after he moved out of state two months ago... long story short, he has depression issues and it got a bit hard), he got angry and told me to basically "f#$@ off". Mind you, this is unlike him... matter of fact, he's the last person on earth I would have ever thought to say something like this to me... But he did. I didn't think he was capable of ever saying anything like this to me, I guess I was wrong.

 

I ended up texting him a big long text calling him every name in the book. I was so angry by what he said that I let him have it... I sent it, and immediately felt bad afterwards... I can't take back what I said... Everything I said was true, though I shouldn't have said it... He was insecure to begin with, and now I dug it even deeper by saying the things I said...

 

I feel awful... How do people get past hurtful words said in anger? To me, the words he said to me (it was more than "f@#$ off"... it was a bit more but I didn't want to put it on here...) still linger in my head... I mean if it were anyone else, I'd write it off... But it came from someone I never thought would treat me that way. When we were together we never argued... never fought... everything was great. It's as though his depression has made him meaner... more selfish... and less thoughtful of others... To top it off, he's long distance now, so anything we want to fix, has to be fixed by phone... which won't happen because he's very anti-phone... he's a texter, but I'm not and I'd rather talk about something rather than text...

 

I know... my post is jumbled, has no point... and probably doesn't make sense... Sorry, just rambling.

[jettison]

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. This kind of stuff is heavily covered in the book, "The Four Agreements" if you care to investigate the dynamic any further. Basically, if a loved one says something horrible about us, it has a tendency to stick with us for along time. We internalize it, and even if it's not true, at least subconsciously part of us believes the slight. Worse, sometimes you can spend your whole life trying to overcome the now self-perception about the person whose seemingly innocuous comment now defines you.

 

In the book, there is a story about a girl and her mother. The girl loved to sing and had a very pretty voice. She was always singing. One day, the mother comes home from an extremely tough day at work and she just wants peace and quiet. When her daughter sings on this day, she barks back "can you just shut up with that awful racket!" The daughter does shut up. In fact, she never sings again. It takes her years to get her true voice back because she's convinced that since a loved one said it about her, it must be true... that her voice is just "an awful racket".

 

We have all made conscious, but mostly subconscious agreements with ourselves. They are shaped by our parents, our friends, and as adults, by our lovers. Inspecting what those agreements are and bringing them to the surface is very, very important because otherwise you will limit yourself for your whole life.

 

You might be someone who simply can't find a loving partner, and if that's true then it's dollars to donuts it's because an agreement was planted in your head by someone of the opposite sex a long, long time ago, and you have internalized this, and you don't think you really deserve the relationship you crave consciously.

[Seraphim]

The people closest to us have the ability to hurt us in the deepest and most fundamental ways. I know when I am hurt I am like you and I take it very much to heart and relive it and relive, not on the outside but in my head and heart. I think at these times we just need to excuse ourself from the situation before we have a chance to respond badly. If we stop and cool off for a time both people are more likely to respond better. I am sorry.

[redherring]

We're all guilty of saying mean things when we're angry.

 

From my experience, depressed people lash out at those closest to them and you really shouldn't take it personally.

[jul-els]

Remember that he's only human and so are you. You should forgive him and yourself and forget.

[XxJustMexX]

I think at these times we just need to excuse ourself from the situation before we have a chance to respond badly. If we stop and cool off for a time both people are more likely to respond better. I am sorry.

 

Thank you. And yes... believe me, as I sat and wrote that text back to him... I contemplated on sending it or not... When I was done, no matter how much contemplating I did, I still ended up pressing send. The whole time writing it, I was thinking to myself "the longer I write, the less mad I'll be by the time I'm done, and I probably won't send it anyway..." Nope. Didn't happen that way. After 20 minutes of writing out that long retaliation text, I was still angry, and still sent it... I guess I have a problem sometimes with pride... I'm sure I had that "no one talks to me that way" attitude about the whole thing and I felt I had to get the last word... Now I feel as if I probably deepened his depression and confirmed his negative feelings toward his self... and made his insecurities worse... but at the moment, it felt justified...

 

Grr... should have just walked away from it. I've been trying hard to control acting out in anger...

[itsallgrand]

I guess he must have hit a soft soft, eh? More than just 'f off'...

 

Believe it or not, you can train yourself not to give in to the urge to lash back when someone hits those real soft spots. Talk to anyone who has known and cared for me a long time, and they could describe for you how confrontational and wild I used to get - and it just doesn't happen anymore. I took it off the table and eventually, stepping back when someone hits a spot that hurts becomes the new impulse. Literally training oneself differently, it is totally possible.

 

I mean, it's really difficult as it is in life to maintain relationships and all, so "fighting fairly" is a pretty cool skill to have and live by.

 

As for with this situation, I agree with ju-els. In some ways it can be more difficult with someone like an ex - 'cause they are no longer in a committed sort of way in a relationship with ya - to let it go. But I think it can be done.

[XxJustMexX]

Remember that he's only human and so are you. You should forgive him and yourself and forget.

 

I agree... but have you ever had someone in your life where things are just great between you two... No arguing, no fights... rare disagreements...? There's no reason to suspect they'd ever hurt you? This was us prior to our breakup. I've known him for 15 years and I've NEVER heard him speak that way. I guess that's what blew my top... hearing him talk like that for the first time... and it was towards me.

 

But yes... we are humans... I guess he's no different from others no matter how high I put him up there...

[XxJustMexX]

As for with this situation, I agree with ju-els. In some ways it can be more difficult with someone like an ex - 'cause they are no longer in a committed sort of way in a relationship with ya - to let it go. But I think it can be done.

 

Definitely agree... if it were some else. Unfortunately he's my best friend's brother, so he will ALWAYS be in my life... We've been friends (pretty much best friends) for like 15 years... so he's not just one of those exes that I can just write off... I guess you can say that no matter what happens, we'll always be "committed" in a way... whether as a couple, or friends. We both know we will always love each other, but it's his depression keeping us apart. That's what angers me... is not knowing when it's really him... or the depression talking. I know I can't give him excuses to do what he does because he's depressed... but being someone who's been depressed herself, I can say I understand.

[sophie274]

Have you apologized? A sincere apology, in which you tell him that you're very sorry for hurting him, that you didn't mean what you said and that you were just lashing out in anger, that you love and respect him, would probably go a long way. (And apologize only when you feel ready to say those words to him regardless of what he says back, because it might not be something nice!) I can guarantee we've almost all done something similar, and hopefully he can forgive you. At the very least, if you reach out and apologize, then your last words to him will be something loving, not something mean.

 

When I had a boyfriend, I was pretty good about biting my tongue when I wanted to just lash out with something really mean, but I'm not as good with my family ... I guess because I always realized the relationship with my boyfriend was more precarious than my bond with my family.

[mgirl]

Have you apologized?

 

Has he apologized to her for telling her to f*(& off?

[Seymore]

I was in a relationship with someone who would say things to me out of anger that nobody had ever said to me in my life, things that really hurt a lot. Almost NEVER did I respond with anger, because I am a laid-back person, and I feel terrible cursing or yelling at people. Anyway, the first few times I forgave her, and eventually I realized she didn't care how it made me feel...not only that, but what was actually being slowly revealed through these hurtful outbursts was not simply a one-off type thing, it was one of her "sides".

 

If this is a one-time thing, let it go and move forward. If you are on the receiving end, just think to yourself: "I need to be the bigger person here, and anger doesn't dissipate when it's responded to with more anger." Breathe in - one deep, long breath, and at the very least speak calmly. Even if you are saying angry things in a calm manner, you can see better results, but try to not even say those angry things. Think before you speak. But make it clear to him that you expect better behavior from him as well, should he lash out at you like that again.

[sophie274]

Has he apologized to her for telling her to f*(& off?

 

In my opinion, that doesn't matter if she feels terrible about what she said to him. What he said is his business to atone for, but if she regrets what she said to him and regrets telling him cruel things just to hurt him, then she should apologize. Then at least she's done right by herself. Though he was very wrong to tell her that, she was also wrong to lash out at him.

 

If she still feels angry and feels it was deserved, then she shouldn't apologize, but this thread seems to show that she feels terrible, and that's why I think she should say she is sorry.

[XxJustMexX]

Has he apologized to her for telling her to f*(& off?

 

The way he's been acting the past two months, I'm not expecting an apology... This is one of those weird cases when two people are so in love and everything's going perfect... and then with a flip of a switch, someone all of a sudden is "confused" (him... and his depression did this...) and the relationship is flipped upside down in a matter of days... It was truly a shock...

 

Honestly, no matter how bad I WANT to apologize... I came to realize I'm ALWAYS the one apologizing... I'm always the one being miss fixer of everything... I've come to realize, he needs to fix this one... All I did was tell him how left out of his life I felt... and how I was tired of waiting for his "decision". This was due to us being in limbo since his depression episode... we haven't broken up, nor are we together... I never got closure, therefore I told him he should at least have the balls to break up with me in real conversation rather than text and stop keeping me waiting for him... Apparently that's when he got mad and told me to "take my bipolar a55 and fck off"... The reason this upset me so much is because we're both bipolar... and I've been there supporting him through his issues, because he's not medicated and I am... I've got control of my issues, and since he doesn't, I've always done all the taking care of everything in the relationship... I always supported his ups and downs... Anyway... And to throw it in my face like that, hit a nerve...

[XxJustMexX]

If she still feels angry and feels it was deserved, then she shouldn't apologize, but this thread seems to show that she feels terrible, and that's why I think she should say she is sorry.

 

Honestly? Yes, I do feel it was deserved... Why I feel bad about it? I seem to have a codependency issue... I'm a fixer. I have guilt issues. I think it stems from a lot of anxiety as well... I feel justified with letting him know how I truly felt because he's the one that left us... I feel like he's allowing his depression to tear us apart. I've been trying to fix things and be there for him... and us... since the day he left... The only reason I feel terrible I guess is because of my nature to be the fixer...

 

Neither one of us are bad people. We're both sweet and perfect to each other... This is the first time we both lashed out on each other though... He's normally the sweetest most caring guy I know, it's just since he's been depressed, he's been distant and less caring, I guess that's what angers me... and add the fact that I'm still the one doing the chasing and fixing and it seems like he's giving up and "whatever" about us... which I know before his depression hit, that was NOWHERE near the case...

[sophie274]

Just wanted to say - in the bigger picture of having a relationship with this man, it sounds like he is bad news for you. He has been distant with you from the start, and it seems like he caused you almost nothing but grief. I definitely do not think that you two should be together, especially as it sounds like he is really not treating you right.

 

That being said, I think you can apologize without being little miss fixer, or being weak/giving in, which is what your post above seems to imply. I don't think there's any strength in you two each sitting in your corner sending mental death brainwaves to each other, you know! You can apologize for hurting him - WITHOUT legitimizing what he said to you or making it ok, and you can forgive him for what he said to you without taking him back.

 

I don't mean to push so much for an apology, it's no skin off my back if you don't apologize, obviously! Just that I know that I hated being on bad terms with my ex, regardless of how much I felt he deserved what I said to him. So I would always write to him apologizing for hurting him, and wishing him the best, if we had had a fight (happened maybe 3-5 times after we broke up). We're not really in touch anymore, and I am over him now - so just to say that you can do what you think is right without it compromising your stance on the relationship.

[mgirl]

I was in a relationship with someone who would say things to me out of anger that nobody had ever said to me in my life, things that really hurt a lot. Almost NEVER did I respond with anger, because I am a laid-back person, and I feel terrible cursing or yelling at people. Anyway, the first few times I forgave her, and eventually I realized she didn't care how it made me feel...not only that, but what was actually being slowly revealed through these hurtful outbursts was not simply a one-off type thing, it was one of her "sides".

 

Wow, that was me to a 't'. Thanks for pointing out what it is like for the other person receiving the outbursts. I can finally see how i affected the last person i dated. I don't feel 'bad', well i sorta do a bit, but i can clearly see how my outbursts would have affected her.

 

Once again, thanks

[XxJustMexX]

Right now, in the state he's in, yes... he is bad news for me. If it were any other person, there would be no doubt in my mind I would not contact them anymore... What makes this ex so special is the fact that he's my best friend's brother, and I've known him for 15 years... and no matter what happens, he and I will always be in contact. We have too much love for each other not just as a couple, but as friends... He's almost as much a best friend to me than his sister is... This is what makes this so difficult.

 

I hate to sound like I'm making excuses for him. I definitely am not... But I have to say that I've NEVER seen him this angry... For 15 years I've seen him battle depression and he's usually just sad, crying, moping around, etc... I've never seen him lash out and tell ANYONE to eff off... That's what makes it a big surprise, and so hurtful. This is absolutely THE first and only hurtful thing I've ever heard come out of his mouth... He is in no means a bad person, abusive, or anything else negative... that's why I love him so much. He's the most caring guy I know... I know it sounds like an excuse for him, but his depression lately makes it seem that some demon's seriously at work because this is SO not like him...

 

I want to leave him alone so he can take care of himself... but it's hard because I care and I want to help him. I have to learn to take care of myself first though, and I've realized that.

 

And no, he hasn't caused me anything but grief. I really truly do appreciate your caring advice though. This "other personality" has only come out in the past month... Prior to that, everything was perfect. We were only together for 6 months, but we'd been great friends for 15... I know you never truly see the "relationship" side of a person even though you've been friends with them for a long time... But I truly did. I knew him in and out... I've seen him with his exes... he's truly a giving person. It's just somehow the minute he entered depression last month, he became a different person. I've posted on depression forums and everyone who's been through it says that depression makes you say and do things you normally wouldn't... and for me not to take it personally. Which I try my hardest to do...

[DN]

OK - so in anger he told you to f. off. Which was an ugly thing to say but what did he mean by it? Mostly when people say that it is said to make the partner leave them alone because they are angry. Anger is a secondary emotion and is caused by another - usually fear or hurt. So what was it in his case?

 

f. off is an expletive - said in the heat of the moment and largely stemming from his depression. It isn't right and I am not defending it as such. But it does need to be looked at in proper context.

 

However, it does seem as if you retaliated in a considered way albeit still out of anger. And you chose to do it by making use of your knowledge about his fears and insecurities, by calling him names that you knew would hurt and make his depression and pain worse. This was not done on the spur of the moment, it wasn't a quick "f. you too" but a deliberate attempt to hurt that you knew you didn't have to send - but that you chose to do anyway.

 

I am not minimising what he did. And you do need to decide if this is the right guy for you based on all that you have posted.

 

But I think that what you did was considered and deliberate and you might find it useful to think about that.

[XxJustMexX]

Actually, a few posts into the story, you'll find the whole context of it... It wasn't just "f off"... It was "take your bipolar a55 and f off". And I also explained why it was a stab at me. He and I are both bipolar and I've been there supporting him through his as he's unmedicated. I on the other hand am medicated, therefore I feel as if he uses the fact that I'm diagnosed to throw it in my face and use against me when he is angry at me. Kind of as if "you're the one with the problem" kind of thing.

 

And yes, I admitted that I was angry and deliberately said those things... I never denied that. What I said was I felt bad afterwards.

 

And yes, I agree it is an expletitive used in the heat of the moment. I also stated in other posts that the reason the stab was so deep, was because I've never heard him speak like this, nor act like this in the 15 years I've known him.

[sophie274]

You know what, I just realized I confused you with another poster who has a very similar user name and a similar story - about a best friend turned relationship - so that's where my advice was coming from. Oops! Clearly I actually have no info on which to judge how good he is for you or not, so my apologies.

 

Given what you've posted here: that's he's been depressed this past month and has only acted this way since he's been depressed, that he's been a good friend to you these 15 years ... then I think your message to him was an overreaction, and I feel like if you want to maintain any kind of relationship between the two of you then you should apologize when you feel ready. He said something very wrong, but so did you, and yours was, as DN said, deliberately hurtful. If I were you I would apologize, while letting him know that speaking to you that way is unacceptable, and that you want to support him and help him with his depression (if you do), but that he needs to respect you and treat you well.

[mgirl]

However, it does seem as if you retaliated in a considered way albeit still out of anger. And you chose to do it by making use of your knowledge about his fears and insecurities, by calling him names that you knew would hurt and make his depression and pain worse. This was not done on the spur of the moment, it wasn't a quick "f. you too" but a deliberate attempt to hurt that you knew you didn't have to send - but that you chose to do anyway.

 

XxJustMexX's boyfriend responded in the way that he knows best when he's under pressure, so did XxJustMeXx... I don't think she should be punished just because she said more words. Who ever said he wasn't premeditated about what he said?! Come on everybody, give this girl a break At least she is taking "responsibility" for her behaviour, a lot more than what the boyfriend is doing... (that we know about)

 

The words she said meant something to her, it was her unique response, just as her boyfriends words were unique to him. There are two sides to this story.

 

In your corner XxJustMeXx... although i do believe that if you feel bad you should rectify it with yourself, but i don't think you should feel unnecessary guilt. It was afterall, YOUR response. Don't feel so guilty, let it go

[sugar_britches]

Hiya,

 

Try not to beat yourself up about the text you sent him. It seems with depression, i know i have suffered with it in the past you do get out of control sometimes with your behaviour and emotions and can act so irationally and out of tune with your real character. You are looking for someone to lash out at and i am sure this is what he did. He mentioned your bi-polar when he suffers with it himself. Maybe a little bit of projection going on for him there.

 

Maybe send him a text message saying something like "I am sorry i said all of those nasty things but i was hurt, angry and very overwhelmed by what you texted. The text i received was so not like the person i have grown to love and care about and this is the reason i said the things i did". Leave it at that and then the ball is in his court as to what he decides to do next.

[thejigsup]

I had a bf once who suffered with depression. I hung in there for five years, but eventually his behavior made me throw in the towel. I loved him, but I loved my sanity and self respect more. I'm on your side, honey.

[DN]

There is a difference between someone who lashes out in anger because of a psychological condition and someone who takes the time to compose a diatribe of insults while considering whether it is wise or fair to send it but sends it anyway. One is premeditated and one is not.