Why men love btches...?

[Lucius]

Meh, that doesn't sound appealing to me at all. What you've outlined here sounds to me like an emotionally selfish woman. All these little tactics to avoid becoming a doormat are likewise unappealing; it's like saying: "instead of being a doormat - instead of being subservient to men - I'm going to make them subservient to me." I wouldn't be interested in a woman like that. Not in the least. But hey, I'm sure there are those out there who would be.

 

What's wrong with meeting a man (or woman) half-way? Surely we can aim at something better than a dichotomy of villain and fool/doormat and user? My fiancee is as sweet as they come - thank God she didn't decide to become this emotionally aloof caricature; we'd have never even dated.

[shes2smart]

II'm starting to pay a lot more attention to the healthy, long term, loving relationships around me. Focusing on what they did right. And I'm not seeing a lot of game playing in those relationships. I just see people that fell in love and spend a lot of wonderful time together. Not over analyzing everything, just being happy and keeping it simple.

 

Rare.

 

One of the...if not THE...best way to get what you want is to find people who already have it and observe them closely. If you know them well enough to ask them questions, do so. As many questions as they'll allow -- and then listen closely to the answers....and use what they tell you as a guideline.

 

No need to blaze an entirely new trail if others have walked a path leading to your destination before you.

[annie24]

i have the book, and actually, i do like it a lot. To me, the whole book is about retaining your self respect and dignity, and yes, knowing that you are worthy and you don't have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a guy.

 

to some women, this book will be more helpful than to others. in the past, i've been guilty of trying to win a guy's affections by doing super nice things for him, like surprising him with lunch, sending him presents, doing his homework for him, etc.... (all these sorts of things before we were even officially 'dating'.) where did it get me? no where!

 

if you're a "nice girl" who does too much for a guy in hopes that he will realize how great you are and want to date you, then you need to read this book.

 

for instance, one example in the book is of a couple where the guy hated her shade of nail polish. a woman without a backbone would have gone and changed the color of her polish right away. whereas, the author recommends you do like the woman in the example: "The complaints department is closed for the evening. you may write out your letter and submit it to the inbox and it will be dealt with." (while pointing at the trashcan!!!!)

[Day_Walker]

Just based on my own experience and that of my friends I can say that men in a generally sense do not seem to like the type of girl that is referred to in that book.

 

In general I think that men like women and once they are attracted to her (for whatever reason) they will generally stick it out with her and her actions, whether she acts like was described in the book or not.

[Lucius]

for instance, one example in the book is of a couple where the guy hated her shade of nail polish. a woman without a backbone would have gone and changed the color of her polish right away. whereas, the author recommends you do like the woman in the example: "The complaints department is closed for the evening. you may write out your letter and submit it to the inbox and it will be dealt with." (while pointing at the trashcan!!!!)

 

That's a great example of what I was talking about: the two choices represented are "rude" or "weak". It's the villain/fool dichotomy again. How about being assertive AND friendly?

[jul-els]

I think the difference is if you're doing something nice just because you like someone, that's alright.

 

If you're doing it thinking it will make them like you, that's a mistake.

[Night Pumpkin]

I think the point is that you can't do anything to win another person's affection. They either love you or they don't.

 

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't love or take care of other people. In fact, it can be joyous loving and caring for other people, even if they don't reciprocate it. This Christmas, I am buying a lot of presents for people who I know won't buy me one. I don't feel bad about that - even though I am unemployed.

 

You give because it is the right thing to do. Whether or not a person returns that affection is up to them.

[Kaiser_Soze]

I think the point is that you can't do anything to win another person's affection. They either love you or they don't.

 

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't love or take care of other people. In fact, it can be joyous loving and caring for other people, even if they don't reciprocate it. This Christmas, I am buying a lot of presents for people who I know won't buy me one. I don't feel bad about that - even though I am unemployed.

 

You give because it is the right thing to do. Whether or not a person returns that affection is up to them.

 

Good post! I tried to give you rep points, but I gotta "spread the love" apparently.

[Night Pumpkin]

You scare the right people off. The people who don't deserve to be with you.

 

Hmm, that sounds very sweet and I certainly hope it is true... but I feel like that comes at a later stage in the relationship. If you start out with that mindset, don't you kind of just scare people off?

 

As said, it's like being fired from a job and realizing that employer wasn't worthy enough to have you in the first place...

[Clarity]

This just seems like the opposite-gender equivalent of "Why do women like jerks?"...

[Blue Spiral]

Men (straight men, to be specific) generally like hot women. Hot women come to realize that, by virtue of being hot, they possess a shocking amount of power. Power corrupts, and many of them can't resist the urge to use this power to their advantage, to the point where they are indeed perceived as b!tches. Now, obviously, if you have a positive trait, there's nothing wrong with using it to help yourself...but I think we can all agree that men and women commonly fall into temptation and use their strengths to tear down those around them.

 

So, it's not that men love b!tches...it's that we love women with traits we consider ideal, and because they know they have those traits, women can get their ego puffed up. As Clarity said, this also happens with "jerks." Women love confidence (I can't figure out why, but whatever), and the men that have confidence often realize this and become alpha male egomaniacs.

 

And then, of course, you have the stragglers--those that see what's happening but only see the surface, and think they have to become b@tches or jerks to compete, so they pretend to be that.

[shes2smart]

Hmm, that sounds very sweet and I certainly hope it is true... but I feel like that comes at a later stage in the relationship. If you start out with that mindset, don't you kind of just scare people off?

 

You scare the right people off. The people who don't deserve to be with you.

 

Well, in a similar vein, the last time I was single I was looking to get married sooner rather than later...and said so at the first logical opportunity when talking with (potential) partners. Usually steered the conversation toward the topic of "relationship goals/what are you looking for" after the small talk stuff was out of the way and some basic initial interest was established.

 

Did it scare people off? Yup. A lot of them. ALL of them who weren't after the same thing I was after anyway OR who couldn't differentiate between "I want a relationship leading to marriage"(which I was after) from "I want a relationship leading to marriage to you" (which I wasn't saying at all).

 

 

On the other hand, my husband appreciated my directness and understood it. He was also after a relationship leading to marriage sooner rather than later, so it was a matter of seeing if we were compatible and attracted to each other. We got married less than a year after we first chatted online, been happily married for 7.5 years.

[annie24]

That's a great example of what I was talking about: the two choices represented are "rude" or "weak". It's the villain/fool dichotomy again. How about being assertive AND friendly?

 

and don't you find it a bit rude to make unsolicited critisims on someone's appearance?

[dog stevens]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but I can say that I really really DISLIKE btches. They are by far the worst. If a girl is a btch to me I'll quit talking to her and move along to another girl. I will not invest any time or effort in getting with a girl that has been a btch to me.

 

Now as to why men love btches, I believe it's because btches mess with the male ego.

[Lucius]

and don't you find it a bit rude to make unsolicited critisims on someone's appearance?

 

In your example a guy said that he didn't like (even 'hated') his partner's nail polish. That could be considered rude - or it could be considered honest. Telling him to toss his opinion in the bin, on the other hand, is in no way a function of honesty. It's just being rude. Even if we were to concede that it was rude of him to say he didn't like it, that doesn't mean an even ruder response is the desirable course, surely? An eye for an eye (or a head for an eye) is not my idea of relationship strategy.

 

I think there's a difference between assertiveness and aggression. It's not that difficult to be assertive with our partners without being rude. Believe me, I do not get walked on in my relationship - but I never tell my partner to throw her views in the garbage, either.

[annie24]

i think that the example was 'teasing' rather than rude "hey - jerkoff, mind your own business" (regarding the nail polish color).

[Lucius]

i think that the example was 'teasing' rather than rude "hey - jerkoff, mind your own business" (regarding the nail polish color).

 

It struck me as the latter, but you're the one who read it - so I concede you may indeed be right. I hope so. Poking some gentle fun would be a great way to handle that situation (as opposed to rudeness, which I took it to be). Clearly it was rude enough that you would raise his own rudeness as counterpoint (and justification). But anyway.

[shes2smart]

Vocal inflection conveys a lot of meaning.

 

If you typed out actual conversations I've had with my husband without knowing either of us or being able to hear how things were said, you'd swear we hated each other.

 

If you were able to hear the vocal inflections and/or knew our similarly twisted sense of humor, you'd know we weren't serious.

 

True story: First impression of my husband was "What an arrogant little twit" because of what his first chat messages to me were. I didn't know him at that point and didn't understand he wasn't serious in what he said.

[annie24]

yeah, i mean, the whole point of the book isn't to tell women to be really mean and rude to guys and walk all over them. i think it's mostly directed to the "overly nice girls" who do too much to get and keep a guy's attention. like i used to do this guy's homework in high school thinking that then he would have more time to spend with me. yes, i really was that dumb. i wish ENA was around back then so you guys could have slapped some sense into me!

 

i remember a thread posted somewhat recently where a young woman liked this guy so much, even though he didn't contact her much. and when he did, it was late at night, she would drive over to his place, they would have sex, and he'd send her home in the morning. then, she wouldn't hear back again for another week or two. the woman wondered what she could do to make this guy like her more and want to be with her? the answer? stop acting like you are a 24-hour around the clock pizza delivery service!! obviously, this man doesn't respect her much because she doesn't respect herself. i think that's what a lot of the book is about - self respect. I think that the book's analogy was to not give away the candy store all at once, but rather, one jujubee at a time!

 

the same can be said for a man who shows up on a first date with a dozen roses, balloons, a box of chocolates, and then gives her a diamond necklace for their 1 month anniversary. like, too much too soon!!! even if a man is donald trump and can afford to do all that, it doesn't mean that he should.

[BriarRose]

Men can say they disagree all they want, but the bottom line, is they are consistently attracted to the women that the author describes in OP's post.

 

I wish I could be more like that, but it's hard when I want to be with someone to act like I don't. And I am single. Perhaps there is a correlation there.

 

As a self-proclaimed "nice girl", I can tell you that men truly don't like this for long term. I call it NGS (nice girl syndrome, lol!).

[Night Pumpkin]

Oh my gosh, I don't want to sound anti-American (which I am not), but it seems that only in America do people regard kindness as a weakness, and not a strength.

 

Blame your singleness on "Nice Girl Syndrome"? Do angry, controlling women have better relationships? Really?????? Not from what I have seen.

 

Men learn how to treat women in their first 6 years of life. It comes from what their parents and religion teaches them. After that, there really isn't anything you can do to change him.

 

Once he is a young man or adult, you can't baby him or bully him into changing. He is who he is. You can only choose to avoid him or to accept him. If he is going to change, he will do it because he wants to.

[BriarRose]

Oh my gosh, I don't want to sound anti-American (which I am not), but it seems that only in America do people regard kindness as a weakness, and not a strength.

 

Blame your singleness on "Nice Girl Syndrome"? Do angry, controlling women have better relationships? Really?????? Not from what I have seen.

 

Men learn how to treat women in their first 6 years of life. It comes from what their parents and religion teaches them. After that, there really isn't anything you can do to change him.

 

Once he is a young man or adult, you can't baby him or bully him into changing. He is who he is. You can only choose to avoid him or to accept him. If he is going to change, he will do it because he wants to.

..

I never once said men prefer angry, controlling women. I think the opposite of NGS is being more unavailable, seeing other people, that sort of thing. I don't know of any man who wants an angry woman.

[shes2smart]

For anyone getting hung up on the "nice" or "b****" terminology:

 

If the title of this book would've been "Why men love confident, assertive women who can stand up for themselves and not be doormats" do you think it would've gotten nearly as much attention as it has with the title "Why Women Love B*****s"?

 

In getting hung up on individual words, you've made some book marketer smile because they got your attention and made you aware of their product. Please remember, some marketers live by the creedo: There is no such thing as negative publicity.

 

I have worked with some of these people. They are scary. And they honestly believe they are smarter, better, and more clever than everyone else.

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that no one (male or female) who is reasonably mentally healthy wants a partner who is nice to the point of being a pushover or doormat NOR do they want someone who's an a-hole or jerk. If you want to make money off this pretty much common-sense idea, you need to spin it, tart it up, and wrap it in a sensational way. Using the B-word is a quick, sure-fire way to do that, because of the way the word is commonly used. If you want to insult a woman, that's one common thing to call her. It's one of those words that can get people's panties in a bunch with a quickness.

[verylonely]

Ugh. I kind of hate this. Men are initially attracted to me because I am really strong. But once inside of a relationship I kind of lose that strength, I can't be ON all the time.

 

This is me too........always told by guys thats what attracted them to me, independent, strong, etc. then when they get me, they want to make me the little woman, which I am not or they cant handle it. Last 2 ex's actually told me so, one that he thought he could change the things he didnt like about me

The most recent that he just could not handle me and that I was more like a man than his little woman. Then i actually became clingy and needy, then he dumped me.......

It has made me question myself no end and makes me want to have less of a strong personality and be a bit less independent....crazy huh

[Night Pumpkin]

Being kind does not make you a doormat.

 

If you are in a relationship where you are being taken advantage of, and your partnter has made no serious attempt to change their behaviour, I would tell you to get out.

 

But why should one be fearful of being too kind??

 

I think of it like this: I have always been a hard working humble worker. Most of my employers have loved me. There have been a few employers who have tried to exploit me, and when I refused, they fired me, and tried to make up stories to justify it firing me. I will not allow those few bad experiences define me as a worker. I will not stop being a hard working humble worker just because a few losers decided to not reciprocate my kindness.

 

For years, I have wanted to be a business owner, and I have been studying in detail those businesses that succeed, and who their owners are. The owners of some of the most successful businesses I have ever seen are kind, considerate, giving, and hard working. They don't exploit or take advantage of other people. Occassionally people take advantage of them, but those people are in the minority, and they are soon gone. Their businesses are thriving, the money is pouring in, and they are very happy.

 

Some people wrongly believe that kindness and integrity are signs of weakness. In reality, those who are kind are usually the strongest people, and in the long term they are the most successful in business, in their marriage, in their community, and in life.