Why men love btches...?

[EternalSingle]

Oh my gosh, I don't want to sound anti-American (which I am not), but it seems that only in America do people regard kindness as a weakness, and not a strength.

 

Blame your singleness on "Nice Girl Syndrome"? Do angry, controlling women have better relationships? Really?????? Not from what I have seen.

 

Men learn how to treat women in their first 6 years of life. It comes from what their parents and religion teaches them. After that, there really isn't anything you can do to change him.

 

Once he is a young man or adult, you can't baby him or bully him into changing. He is who he is. You can only choose to avoid him or to accept him. If he is going to change, he will do it because he wants to.

 

Yes. It is very American. I know both Europe and the US and I can tell you it is very American. A million superficial rules that I don't even care to bother with...

[BriarRose]

Yes. It is very American. I know both Europe and the US and I can tell you it is very American. A million superficial rules that I don't even care to bother with...

..

I've never been to Europe, but it does seem that kindness is deemed as "weak" here in the US. I am not an assertive woman, I am quiet, kind, but not a "doormat". But because of my demeanor, I think I am perceived as too nice. I don't play games, and if I'm interested in someone and he asks me out, I go out with him. I return texts and emails. Maybe this makes me seem too available, I don't know.

 

And I get far less attention from men than louder and more abrasive females I know (most of whom are now married. Guess their hubbies like that).

[annie24]

I think it's hilarious people who haven't read the book are debating over it! go out, read the book, then come back with critiques!!!!

 

like shes2smart said, the title is catchy. but once you read the book, it's not a how-to manual on how to undo the 'nice girl' inside of you or how to walk all over a man. it's just really about learning how to be confident within yourself and treat yourself like a prize. you know, don't be a guy's 2 AM booty call. don't drive over there, have sex, and wonder why he doesn't respect you!

 

i am a nice person, i really am. but i used to try to use my 'niceness' to win over a guy (like the example i stated, doing his homework!!!!) that behavior doesn't win you a good boyfriend, it gets you a guy who walks all over you. I can be nice to a man, without letting him walk all over me either. some people get taken advantage of because they are 'too nice.' my mom is one of those people and she taught me that behavior as well. now, i've kept in mind not to be 'too nice' when someone hasn't earned that. and besides, people should do their own homework!

[BriarRose]

like shes2smart said, the title is catchy. but once you read the book, it's not a how-to manual on how to undo the 'nice girl' inside of you or how to walk all over a man. it's just really about learning how to be confident within yourself and treat yourself like a prize. you know, don't be a guy's 2 AM booty call. don't drive over there, have sex, and wonder why he doesn't respect you!

..

Oh, yeah, that stuff is just common sense. That's not being "nice", that's just having no respect for yourself.

[annie24]

..

Oh, yeah, that stuff is just common sense.

 

yeah, you would think so, but i know lots of women, both here, and in real life and myself!! who have done stupid things like that.

 

i know a woman (true story!) she's a phd candidate (thus you would think she's smart). she's sitting around fretting because this guy that she is in love with is angry at her because she went on a date with this other guy. the guy she is in love with is actually in a long term relationship with another woman, and lives hundreds of miles away from her! she's like, 'he's so mad at me because i went out with xxxx!' i grabbed her and shook her like, "XXXX HAS A LIVE-IN GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!! @#$^#!!! MOVE ON!!!!! YOU ARE SINGLE, YOU CAN GO ON A DATE WITH ANYONE!!!!!"

[Night Pumpkin]

Summary:

 

Don't be taken advantage of, but don't forget to be kind either

 

You can't change someone else by your behaviour. And don't let someone change you from being the kind and generous person you are.

[EternalSingle]

..

I've never been to Europe, but it does seem that kindness is deemed as "weak" here in the US. I am not an assertive woman, I am quiet, kind, but not a "doormat". But because of my demeanor, I think I am perceived as too nice. I don't play games, and if I'm interested in someone and he asks me out, I go out with him. I return texts and emails. Maybe this makes me seem too available, I don't know.

 

And I get far less attention from men than louder and more abrasive females I know (most of whom are now married. Guess their hubbies like that).

 

I prefer this. Vastly.

[Lucius]

Men can say they disagree all they want, but the bottom line, is they are consistently attracted to the women that the author describes in OP's post.

 

I'm quite certain you're in no position to discern what "men are consistently attracted to", much less when it contradicts what we tell you we like. Who's in a better position to know what we like than we ourselves are? Happily, we men are attracted to different things. I MUCH prefer quiet, kind, sweet women than a person to whom the title "b!tch" could apply in ANY sense. Moaning about how men are always into b!tches is precisely like a man moaning about the whole, mind-numbing "nice guy/jerk" stereotype.

 

It's not just semantics, shes2smart, although you raise a good point. That may indeed be the reasoning behind the title, but the title was never my concern. It's what people take from it; that men, quite literally, "love b!tches". It's misleading. Particularly when, for men like myself, any woman whose qualities even approach such terrain that one might intelligently equate them to a "b!tch" (let alone wholly and proudly OWN the title), is not someone I myself would find desirable in a romantic sense - certainly not over certain other, quite oppositional qualities. Being assertive and kind is in no way, shape or form comparable to what a person tends to mean by the word "b!tch" - and those former qualities are the ones most important to a man like myself.

 

So although we may MEAN something else, unless we say what we mean (or at the least, say something in any way comparable with what we mean), it IS bound to receive objection. Particularly when it presumes to inform the reader/public/wider audience what a gender "loves". I'm quite sure, after all, that we would see a similar response from the women here if I were celebrating some hypothetical tome called "why women love a$$holes." Scrambling to define the wonderful qualities we mean to capture when we say "a$$hole" would leave a skeptical quirk upon many a female lip too, I'm sure.

[MD Geist]

This brings up the question for me.

 

Why do women go for the losers?

 

The ones that are CLEARLY no good for them and only want to get whats in their pants.

 

Maybe if I say out loud "I only want to hit it and quit it" i would certainly have much more success than being one who wants to love them.

[Lucius]

..

Actually, since I've been dating since before you were born, I have a pretty good idea, lol! Besides, I go by what people do, not what they say. And I see what men go after.

 

You certainly would have a good idea what some men would seem to like, I'll grant you that. For my money this is still an irksome statement, however:

 

"Men can say they disagree all they want, but the bottom line, is they are consistently attracted to the women that the author describes in OP's post."

 

...As though we are either lying or deluded when we contradict the apparent preferences of the men you've known. And no, it would seem that you don't just go by what people do when making your claims; you go by what some people do, and you tar the rest of their gender with the same brush. Call it what you will, but that strikes me as a fine recipe for close-mindedness. As I say, we men (like women) desire different things from one another.

[Tarkan]

BEcause we all want what we can't get

[AnotherBrokenDoll]

Heres the thing. I am generally quite bitter and very cynical. I'll be honest and say that i feel as though the only guys that i attract are the jerks, and so yes sometimes in my weakness i do settle. Why? Because its nice to think that someone, no matter who they are is attracted to me in some way.

 

I know that sounds stupid and very immature and i am most likely showing my age haha. But i do accept its wrong, and i am most definitely trying to change that.

 

But really, when i'm not being bitter and cynical. When i'm not claiming all men to be jerks. I do understand that every guy is attracted to something different. And not all men have types either.

 

I am mostly a very confident person. I stand up for myself when people are rude to me. I stand up for my friends who won't stand up for themselves. I am a very proud person and therefore don't like to come accross as needy or clingy. In actual fact i would never call me clingy - needy, perhaps at times i am. But i tend to not show that side of myself until i know someone very well.

 

I've had people be attracted to me for that, for the confidence, the happiness i portray, the assertiveness.

 

But, i am also very muchly a "nice girl". Although i stand up for myself against rude people, i get walked all over consistantly by people i care about. I go out of my way to do anything to make those people happy. I let them get away with anything basically. I am overly trusting, i can be very timid and shy when it comes to certain situations as well.

 

I've had people be attracted to me for that. Saying that it was refreshing to meet someone who was an honestly NICE person.

 

When we start talking about "b!tches" and "nice girls" i think people get carried away. Very few people are 100% one way or the other. Everyone has a mix.

 

I guess what i'm saying is that there is always going to be someone attracted to you, for exactly who you are. And you shouldn't change yourself because even if you do attract more men - they won't be interested in YOU, just the behaviours you've picked up.

 

annie24 i haven't read the book, and i'm not saying its a bad thing. I'm sure it is very uplifting for some people. Most girls go through the "trying to please" phase and its always nice to realise that you don't HAVE to do that to get a guy.

 

Since i haven't read it i can't really say how it comes accross. But from that snipet i see both sides. It is good that girls realise they don't have to be walked all over, but they don't need to play games either - such as not answering his call ON PURPOSE.

 

Now i'm curious and want to read it haha.

[Allyo]

Men can say they disagree all they want, but the bottom line, is they are consistently attracted to the women that the author describes in OP's post.

 

I wish I could be more like that, but it's hard when I want to be with someone to act like I don't. And I am single. Perhaps there is a correlation there.

 

As a self-proclaimed "nice girl", I can tell you that men truly don't like this for long term. I call it NGS (nice girl syndrome, lol!).

 

I can't help it... I agree. Men say they like nice women, but experience speaks otherwise. Kind of like all the nice men lamenting that they finish last. I wish this weren't the case, but it appears to be. Or maybe we finally just learn our lesson and go for the correct partner sooner or later.

 

I think it is funny because we have all sorts of ideals of how love should be, kind, unselfish, etc. Sometimes I think that we are more f-ed by buying into all these ideals. Romantic Hollywood movies ruined it for us all. I do believe that ideals of love, kindness, etc. are very culturally/socially influenced and just maybe it comes down to all those evolutionary or physical and chemical responses in the brain.

 

But I certainly I don't think that love should be this way or that way or follow any sort of standard... I just kind of like analyzing the situation and figuring out why relationships and attraction play out the way they do.

[yeawutever]

What if both the man and woman are too nice to the point of practically being a doormat? Would the two of them work out? I can't imagine how that scenario would be....

[red_sky_girl]

i do not agree with what this author explains.....its ok to take things slow and to smother your feelings for your women or man...and to be "indiferent" just a bit sometimes means not to atached to the person u love...but live your life and let him/her live her/his life too...."space" thing...but i dont like that mind games either...its about love and respect....and these two things got to exist...if u play games that measn u are not i love and u arent considering having a family...but just having a boyfriend or a girlfriend.....this is my opinion

[sweet_kisses]

I've read the book so I'd like to comment on it.

 

I think this book is great, but its just one piece of the puzzle. The book teaches a little bit about self respect and how men think, being general knowledge that a lot of women, including myself, lack. Its also basic psychology. A lot of women try to "get" men to like them in the way to which they would respond - meaning doing things for them, being available, very open and so on. unfortunately, men aren't women, so more often then not, these behaviors get our hearts broken, so the point of the book is to get you to think about what you are doing and if it really makes sense in the big picture, or you're just acting on impulse. At least, thats the sense that I got.

 

As for basic psychology, a woman who acts like b*tch (in the book's sense) never really belongs to a man - and, as much as playing games or whatever you want to call it is manipulative, wanting things you don't completely have is very basic human nature.

 

The thing I've noticed is that people who refer to these as "playing games" or being "manipulative" are the ones with usually the least amout of self control and awareness of other people. Like, a woman wants to call a man all the time because she loves him and wants to express it. So she decides that because it feels good for HER its the right thing to do, not really thinking about how the guy feels about it or would interpret it. More than anything, I think its just basic tact that most of us lack, not games.

 

 

That being said, I think that everyone needs to interpret the theory of the book and apply it to fit their own personality. Some women are naturally more catering to men than others are and that's okay. If a guy didn't like what I was wearing, I wouldn't have an issue changing for him. I don't have an issue waking up at 6 am to make my partner breakfast for work or making him cookies just because I like him. The book says not to do these things, but I do them anyway, and they've haven't really chased any men away from me. The difference is that giving is a part of my personality and not to give would be me being fake and then I'd come off as a real b*tch (not in the book sense). But even if I do give, it still comes out of a place of self respect, meaning that its always equal to or less than the guy has done for me.

 

Obviously, if you want to be a in LTR, you need to learn to give and be femenine. I think this books puts too much masculine energy out there which in the long run will not be attractive to men. So my advice is, get the book "getting to I do". "Men like b*tches" is a like a kids book compared to that one.

[stingray]

Did anyone pick up on the reversal of this theory would be called why women love assholes? That's so classic lol and definetely supports the view of most men here that, that is the case.

[mad rabbits]

This is me too........always told by guys thats what attracted them to me, independent, strong, etc. then when they get me, they want to make me the little woman, which I am not or they cant handle it. Last 2 ex's actually told me so, one that he thought he could change the things he didnt like about me

The most recent that he just could not handle me and that I was more like a man than his little woman. Then i actually became clingy and needy, then he dumped me.......

 

I think this goes to the heart of the matter. What people say they want or what they think they want, isn't the same as what in practice works for them and feels right.

 

This cuts both ways, eg (and this is a generalisation but holds true in many cases):

 

- women say they want to meet a nice, genuine guy that treats them with respect. However they ignore any such number of dating prospects and go with the guy that is indifferent to them, ignores them, doesn't call, treats them like crap etc..

 

- men say they want an independent woman who isn't clingy and needy and does her own thing. However confronted with such a woman in a relationship they will bow out and ultimately prefer a woman more "traditional" and submissive.

 

Why is this? People want what they don't have, for one thing. An indepedent woman seems attractive when you are lumbered with a needy one. But in practice the relationship with the independent woman is harder to maintain, whereas the needy lady is willing to do almost all the work to keep the relationship going.

 

The other aspect is just biology I think. As distasteful as it is women are programmed at some level to find stereotypical male traits of distancing and independence and non-communication attractive, whereas men find admiration and submissiveness appealing in a woman.

 

My mother has several degrees and speaks six languages and earns buckets of money, guess who my dad left for? Sally homemaker.

 

Men get old and tired and want to put their shoes under a bed. The independent lady becomes unattractive at that point and the one that looks after their needs with devotion comes up trumps.

 

Women too get old and weary and get sick of bad boys and settle down with a "nice guy."

 

It's all self interest ultimately, however I agree with blue spiral that in most instances if a woman is really really attractive physically it doesn't matter what other traits she has, she'll always end up with someone.

[BriarRose]

women say they want to meet a nice, genuine guy that treats them with respect. However they ignore any such number of dating prospects and go with the guy that is indifferent to them, ignores them, doesn't call, treats them like crap etc..

..

I agree.

men say they want an independent woman who isn't clingy and needy and does her own thing. However confronted with such a woman in a relationship they will bow out and ultimately prefer a woman more "traditional" and submissive.

..

I don't think it's about strong vs. submissive. It's about needy vs. not caring. The aloof woman takes the cake every time, IMO. From what I have seen.

[sweet_kisses]

..

I agree.

..

I don't think it's about strong vs. submissive. It's about needy vs. not caring. The aloof woman takes the cake every time, IMO. From what I have seen.

 

Only in the beginning or with a man who doesn't really want a real relationship.

 

Believe me, I've been broken up with several times for not being appreciative enough, giving enough, understanding enough, flexible enough and so on past the 6+months stage.

 

 

I'm starting to think that the trick is to make a man feel like you don't need him but he's so wonderful that you want him in your life.