Obervations on "emotional affair" with co-worker.

[EQD]

oh... so by that logic a guy can cheat on his gf because they arent married and thats 'okay' in the eyes of god?

[Miss Firecracker]

Has Luke cheated on her? He had a business meeting from what I read.

[EQD]

Has Luke cheated on her? He had a business meeting from what I read.

 

those werent his intentions.

whats troubling is his intent. he got wrapped up about to make a move on a married woman, and when he percieved she was rejecting him.. this happens.

 

he's actively looking for women to emotionally cheat on his gf with. if he keeps going, at this rate its only a matter of time.

he may not have done anything out of the way, but in his mind he's scouting for other women. which is considered cheating in many peoples books.

[Miss Firecracker]

Well, I think this relationship will most likely not survive.

 

If you are having to hide her from friends and family, then it's not a good sign. You are fortunate that she agrees to keep the relationship under wraps. Most women would be insulted. She must be, like Luke said, a very naive girl.

[gryphaeon]

Luke, just have to ask... how well is all the verbal dancing working for you? You aren't in politics by chance are you? You seem to have an answer for everything that people point out and yet you still have a problem, right?

 

Also, I asked what your relationship with God looked like, not your relationship with Joel Olsteen... if describing how you listen to a man preach is all you can say about your relationship with God, then again, maybe it would help if you looked at yourself...

 

BTW, just as a refresher, here are the Ten Commandments, King James version;

 

1. You shall have no other gods before me.

 

2. You shall not make for yourselves an idol.

 

3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.

 

4. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

 

5. Honor your father and your mother.

 

6. You shall not murder.

 

7. You shall not commit adultery.

 

8. You shall not steal.

 

9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

 

10. You shall not covet.

 

Would you by chance have any idea what covet means?

[Luke Skywalker]

those werent his intentions.

whats troubling is his intent. he got wrapped up about to make a move on a married woman, and when he percieved she was rejecting him.. this happens.

 

What married woman? I did not go out with any married woman here. On the other thread, I came to a conclusion to NOT send a letter based on the outcome of another thread, not based on how that married woman was behaving towards me afterwards.

 

he's actively looking for women to emotionally cheat on his gf with. if he keeps going, at this rate its only a matter of time.

 

How do you figure? Apart from the office environment, and client's I'm working with, and my own church, I'm not actively pursuing any other girls. I don't have a profile on any internet site. I don't see what is the big deal about having a business lunch with a colleague.

 

Heck, I learned about some of the ways she gets buyer agency agreements signed and just talked about Real-Estate for the whole time, with a bit about her family or how my family structure and what we do on free time, etc.... but nothing really apart from business.

 

So, I can not have business lunches with collegues from my office, or take out female Real-Estate clients out for lunch or dinner who are referring business to me without worrying about 'emotional cheating'? This is absurd.

[Luke Skywalker]

Well, I think this relationship will most likely not survive.

 

If you are having to hide her from friends and family, then it's not a good sign. You are fortunate that she agrees to keep the relationship under wraps. Most women would be insulted. She must be, like Luke said, a very naive girl.

 

Okay, that makes sense. As usual, your advice usually has a positive, non-judgmental, common sense perspective on the situation and I appreciate all your replies. Putting some rep points up.

[Luke Skywalker]

Would you by chance have any idea what covet means?

 

Sure I do. So what is your point here?

[Kantriakhor]

Very interesting.

[EQD]

you took a coworker out to lunch you paid for dinner when you dont even pay for your gf, you mentioned that you two arent spiritually compatable ( * * * ?) none of that says you were just looking at that as 'friends only'

 

i WAS talking about your infatuation with the married woman not too long ago also btw.

 

how are you not seeing this pattern luke?

[Luke Skywalker]

Dunno, there is not enough development anywhere to come to any conclusions. I still think that this was a business meeting, and I did receive valuable information on how this woman gets her clients to sign buyer agency agreements, and all that was essentially discussed was still Real-Estate related. Maybe I just wanted to get this off my chest since it doesn't appear like I'm still pursuing this girl any further at this time.

 

For example, I didn't send any email or personal note to follow up on the lunch, 'something' held me back. Then you got that 'intuition' thing (an earlier post by under_my_umbrella).

 

When I'm talking about "natural flow", I'm also talking about listening to my intuition as well. For example, I may have taken this girl out, but now I'm aware that there is a line to be crossed, so I intuitively will not aggrivate it any further.

[caro33]

Note to posters: You can disagree, but keep it respectful. If you cannot keep your comments respectful then it is better to avoid this thread.

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, here's the deal. My girlfriend is spending money to a scam ministry that promises that she'll get lots of money from God if she buys into them, and I've told her not to spend money to that ministry since January and she never listens to me. Today she spends money on paying for three months advance rent on a place and she wants to move elsewhere without asking for her money back and just wasted $ 1200. I am going to have to fight for her to get that money back. She doesn't want me to, or she doesn't want to ask for her money back because she thinks the people who took the money wont like her if she causes trouble. This is crazy.

 

Looking at the way she wastes money, I should not feel guilty about spending $ 40.00 on a lunch date with a pretty girl or her paying for dates if she is going to throw away money like that. Besides it was my mother's idea to take her to Red Lobster, otherwise I would have taken her to a cheap restaurant like Swiss Chalet instead. Whatever.

[Fionnuala]

You keep contradicting yourself. You claim that it was "just a business meeting" and act confused that anyone still thinks otherwise. But you say you are not "pursuing this girl any further," which means that by taking her out to lunch you WERE pursuing her. You also refer to it as taking her out, and in your original post you talk about how you're not sure what impression you made and that you don't think you're spiritually compatible. If you had only been looking at this as a business lunch from the beginning, those wouldn't have even been issues. Most people don't think about their compatibility with a co-worker during a completely innocent business lunch. The fact that you did signals that it was more than that. You can claim it was just a business lunch now because nothing else happened, but it's obvious that wasn't your intention from the beginning. And intentions matter almost as much as actual actions.

 

And no, your girlfriend spending money on a ministry you don't think is valid is not the same thing as you spending money on another woman.

 

I feel bad for your girlfriend. It's obvious that you think she is beneath you and you are too good for her. The way you talk about her does not show any affection or respect, and this is the second time you have pursued another woman, even if it didn't actually develop into anything. I think she deserves better than you.

[EQD]

i couldnt have said it better. repped.

[Luke Skywalker]

I've taken this girl out before for coffee sometime last year, and already knew from that coffee date that we were not spiritually compatable. In fact, this is not new information that is just derived from this meeting. Therefore, if I were to pursue her knowing that we were not compatable, that would mean I'm deliberately wasting my time and money if I had other intentions, right? Let's talk about intentions. I took her out for LUNCH at MID-DAY, not DINNER at the EVENING. When you are talking a girl out for LUNCH and then returning her back to the office where you both part ways and get back to work, then what does that say?

 

I would agree with you 100%, if I took this co-worker out on an evening dinner date, had seductive CD music in my car, or brought up a romantic or sexual conversation during our actual dialogue. Having some personal content in a conversation will occur in ANY business purpose. When you deal with Real-Estate clients who are buying or selling a home, you are not just going to talk about Real-Estate, you may ask about their children, how they are doing in school, see if there are from to enhance a rapport.

 

My gosh, if you want to impress a client, you would take him or her out to a nice restaurant. I've taken GUYS, yes, GUYS and GALS out to eat lunch that I'm doing business with, and if I do business with them, then what is $ 40.00 if they are referring or potentially intend to deal with me with thousands of dollars worth of business.

 

This lady I took out, may have given me a valuable tip that may help me in my business, and that may be worth lots of money to me, and that morale support and encouragement would also probably help. So, in one sense, you can't form a clear intention on me since I didn't intend to seduce her during this date, or take her some place else other than the office otherwords.

 

If I intended to seduce her, I would have PLANNED some sort of seduction strategy and spent time planning it, memorising scripts to inject a romantic / sexual slant into the conversation, have some sort of place to go afterwards, and definitely not be half-asleep, brought flowers, or have bite the bullet of being overly religious in my self-portrayal and portray myself as some sort of project to her to bring me more out into the world, and furthermore, the date would have been suggested for the evening instead rather than lunch. Therefore, it's hard to convince me that I intended to seduce her, or had other intentions because I would usually rehearse and pre-plan something like CRAZY if that was the case and part of the thing would have been scripted and acted. I was myself the whole time, therefore, no intent.

 

I'm glad that I have a girlfriend so that I don't have to have any hang-ups that I'm not getting any intimate times with any girls, and can have totally clear pleutonic based relationships without that pressure that I'm not getting anything and have to try out something weird, like I've mentioned above. Now I can just be myself since I already have a girlfriend somewhere, and not care about seducing anyone, and my default-self is usually anti-seduction.

 

What did I talk about with her? I talked about God during this time and if anything tried to convert her to my faith. Highly seductive stuff. That's a seduction KILLER, she got more distant with me when I started encouraging her to come to my church. However, I didn't have any intent or desire to do anything with her beyond enjoying her company and talking about business.

 

Furthermore, there is a thread history somewhere about this girl BEFORE I meet my girlfriend and believe that we are acquaintences or friends that was there prior to recognizing my girlfriend. When I found out she has a more new age slant and we were not on the same spiritual wavelength, then as a policy, i don't try to convert someone so I can go out with them formally they should find the Lord on their own. I sort of moved on that time and this is just something of recent to reconnect with her.

 

I can have a whole host of "intentions" behind thoughts which never materialize, and that's called "fantasy". I do not take "fantasies" seriously, because all they are are just "fantasies" -- intentions without any tangible or rational expression in the real world. If I didn't masturbate or fleshlight her after the meeting -- then you don't even have that on me either (which I did not).

 

 

 

 

Yeah, at least I'm not wasting my money, at least I had some fun enjoying the company of a nice co-worker.

 

 

 

No, there was no first time I pursued any woman -- I challenge you to show me where.

 

I believe I replied to your post to explain that this is a business meeting.

[Fionnuala]

 

No, there was no first time I pursued any woman -- I challenge you to show me where.

 

I believe I replied to your post to explain that this is a business meeting.

 

I could show you many examples of where you began to pursue both this woman and the married woman. But I'm not going to waste my time, because you are determined to believe that your behavior is okay. You always give yourself an out because you haven't TECHNICALLY done anything wrong. I already gave examples of how your claims that everything with this woman was just business related are contradictory to your actual approach to it. Time of day, lack of romantic music, etc. are irrelevant. They are all technicalities. You don't need those things to have impure intentions towards someone. Hell, you don't EVER have to do anything outwardly romantic with them for it to not be okay. The issue here is more disrespect for the woman that you are supposed to be committed to.

 

I think you know that your intentions are not right. If what you are doing/have done with both this woman and the married woman was perfectly innocent, you wouldn't feel the need to keep posting in the infidelity forum about it. You feel guilty. I doubt that you would if your relationships and feelings towards these other woman were really as innocent as you're trying to convince yourself they are.

 

And you can call them just fantasies if you want, but even fantasies are not harmless when you continue to dwell on them like you do. You talk about what a strong Christian you are, what about what Jesus said: If you look at a woman lustfully, you have already committed the sin of adultery? That's because fantasies and even unrealized intentions can be dangerous and hurtful in and of themselves. They're natural, but when you are with someone, you shouldn't be letting yourself dwell on them. So you didn't masturbate or have sex with other women, doesn't matter. You are looking at other women and judging them as more attractive than your girlfriend, and assigning them value that you don't assign to her. That's almost as bad.

 

I also find it interesting that you don't deny that you think you're too good for your girlfriend and that you lack respect and affection for her.

[Luke Skywalker]

And you can call them just fantasies if you want, but even fantasies are not harmless when you continue to dwell on them like you do. You talk about what a strong Christian you are, what about what Jesus said: If you look at a woman lustfully, you have already committed the sin of adultery? That's because fantasies and even unrealized intentions can be dangerous and hurtful in and of themselves. They're natural, but when you are with someone, you shouldn't be letting yourself dwell on them.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not married to my girlfriend or engaged to her, therefore I can not be committing adultery. Since I didn't tell my girlfriend about this 'business meeting' and I got grossed out almost the last time I french kissed her, and because I've spent money on another "prettier" woman while my girlfriend in the past has spent money on me and has also bought clothes as well as spent money on dates in the last March break (including spending money on a movie when I 'forgot' to bring a movie card where I could have used free points to see the movie together), and various items for me as presents, and also the fact that I've admitted I'm hesitant to invite my girlfriend to church, yet I'm trying to invite this other "prettier" girl because I'd feel better showing her around to other people, would probably be a full blown infidelity event (i.e. conflict of interest with another woman). Although there is no 'romance' or 'sex' involved, if all those variables are there, and I just had a meeting with a "prettier" girl that wasn't an actual Real-Estate client, then yeah, I have to concede that a full blown 'emotional' infidelity event occurred and I'm disprespecting my girlfriend and being grossly unfair with her.

 

So you didn't masturbate or have sex with other women, doesn't matter. You are looking at other women and judging them as more attractive than your girlfriend, and assigning them value that you don't assign to her. That's almost as bad.

 

I don't think I'm just looking at things just by looks alone or I wouldn't be with her in the first place. I think there is some other compliments of 'issues' or compatability that we may have that a relationship technically makes sense. However, even my parents, the friend that introduced her to me, knows that there is a mis-match in terms of looks, and I've already described on here how they describe her.

 

So, I would portray myself as doing an experiment to see how long I can have a relationship with a 'looks-deficient' woman before cracking up I guess, because I thought I could really handle it. But, if I'm being disrespectful, or eyeing other woman that are "prettier" or mentally scouting, then I guess this is something that can't really be handled even I wanted too. Guys like "looks" in a relationship, and some put a 75% weight, above all other factors. I thought I was different.

 

 

I also find it interesting that you don't deny that you think you're too good for your girlfriend and that you lack respect and affection for her.

 

I never said that I was too good for my girlfriend. I believe I am reasonably affectionate when I'm around her. I tell her what she wants to hear and I reciprocate when she gets physical so she gets a good experience around me.

[Luke Skywalker]

Alright, so one 'infidelity' event occurred, plus a roaming mind that appears to be quite busy. So, I should tell her about it if I go out with this girl EVER again within the space of 60 days, if it's longer than that, then it's too petty for any disclosure. Or a "it's not you it's me" break-up? Or, just forget about it and see how this relationship goes anyway -- just make sure I bring my movie-points card next time I go to a Famous Players/Cineplex Odion movie centre and pay for at least some of the dates, so this won't seem as bad? Also invite her to my church -- but she goes to her own church though in the morning. I don't know if she want to go to two church services in a row.

[Kantriakhor]

Alright, so one 'infidelity' event occurred, plus a roaming mind that appears to be quite busy. So, I should tell her about it if I go out with this girl EVER again within the space of 60 days, if it's longer than that, then it's too petty for any disclosure.

 

You admit to being unfaithful, you should tell her, don't put in some kind of lay-away policy. Be upfront about it, be honest about it because regardless of beliefs or faiths, honesty is an absolute if you want to be considered a good person.

[Luke Skywalker]

You admit to being unfaithful, you should tell her, don't put in some kind of lay-away policy. Be upfront about it, be honest about it because regardless of beliefs or faiths, honesty is an absolute if you want to be considered a good person.

 

Right, but you have to be tactful too. I have to look at the quality of connection with my girlfriend the next time I see her and if there is still a 'wedge'. If there is no wedge, then the only thing I see wrong was I took out another girl the following day I had a night out with my girlfriend, and then went out with my girlfriend a day after like a monkey swinging from tree to tree. (That was the reason I was half-asleep with the co-worker was because I spent the night out with my girlfriend the day before and was tired the following day)

 

However, I think my mind is now off the other girl, or her mind is off me as well, and since that's now inactive, I don't see why I would want to make my girlfriend feel bad if there is nothing really to talk about. If, I still feel there is a 'wedge' when I see her again tonight, then it would be a different story. The 'wedge' is the reason I wrote this thread, and therefore it is the only material issue.

[Kantriakhor]

Your inability to keep out of this habit is reason enough, you fall into the same protocol, same song and dance routine, proving that you are currently unable to escape this pattern. These are the reasons why telling would be beneficial, so she knows the kind of guy she's with.

 

If you showed an ability to stay away from such behaviour then I'd be sympathetic to wanting to keep things quiet (though, personally, I believe in full disclosure 100%) but you can't, or won't.

 

She deserves to know.

[Luke Skywalker]

I don't think so. There is no recurrent pattern of taking girls out for lunches, or even taking this current girl out for lunches. Even if this was an infidelity, it was still an out of the blue event and I don't see any serious pattern anywhere.

 

Now, if I started 'changing' to take out other girls out for lunch, or started a clear path of getting friendly with other girls and trying ways of connecting with them that I'm sort of going out of my way, then I would agree there is a problem.

[Kantriakhor]

This is where we differ, I believe an action is wrong if the action itself is wrong.

 

You seem to believe an action is only wrong if you do the same action again.

[Luke Skywalker]

Meet my gf again tonight. There doesn't appear to be any wedge. We looked at a movie on a laptop and she started really French kissing me like crazy. It finally clicked on that John Mayer's song "Your body is a wonderland", when he mentioned something like 'bubble gum' tongue.

 

I took her into my Real-Estate office after hours and we looked at the laptop movie there because the battery ran out on the parking lot. The sat on my lap during the movie. She also french kissed me a few times during that time and took off her pants so I could play with her bum. When returning her home she gave me a hand-job and continued french kissing me and said she wants to suck me, but said after we get married. I didn't feel grossed out this time.

 

This morning, I began feeling like she's penetrating inside, especially with one of the french kisses, and the mind automatically started thinking about anything else to deflect attention from that. It is noted that there really is a fear of getting too close or intimate with a girl, leading credance to EQD's view, and do not necessary feel there is a mis-match if those are the type of feelings I'm getting now rather than feeling too good for my gf. At this time, the other girl at the office, or any sort of emotional infidelity will just be seen as a wedge unless there is no evident fear of initimacy or getting too close.