Obervations on "emotional affair" with co-worker.

[Kantriakhor]

She already went to the hospital and TOLD him that he was the reason. Maybe you didn't see that part.

 

Saw it, thanks for asking. I believe he's using that instance to support these tendencies of him being the "one" to determine everything, it's clinical narcissism and her co-dependence issues are feeding it.

 

Again, thanks for asking.

[Miss Firecracker]

Luke, what do you think you will do next?

[Luke Skywalker]

Let's hope God tells her, that would be wonderful. But it doesn't always work that way, Luke.

 

Not in this case. After the retreat she claimed she prayed and fasted about our relationship on Friday evening. On Saturday morning she claimed I approached her dressed in a white gown and extended my hand towards her to live forever with her in my life. She believes this is the answer to prayer.

I'm stunned. If people have read all my threads on here (including this one) pertaining to her, then I'm riddled with lots of doubt about her and I'm no knight in shining armour in her life.

 

My mother doesn't feel comfortable with her because she is taking medication to keep her from going crazy. It doesn't matter how she looks, since even if she was a 10 attractive girl and taking medication to keep sane then that would not make a difference. This sort of gives me an out that doesn't have to let me confront this "looks" issue.

 

The more I look at it the more it looks like a bad deal. She is old (i.e. getting past the child bearing age) and if we plan on getting married in a few years later, she may be too old to bear children. If she is taking medication to keep her 'sane' or from going 'off' then it's also doesn't make sense there. I like to see other reasons apart from her "looks" as giving me an out on this.

[Luke Skywalker]

Saw it, thanks for asking. I believe he's using that instance to support these tendencies of him being the "one" to determine everything, it's clinical narcissism and her co-dependence issues are feeding it.

 

Again, thanks for asking.

 

Using that instance? You don't make sense at all. Would you go out with an insane woman yourself?

[Luke Skywalker]

Luke, what do you think you will do next?

 

I really do not know. I've put so much work and energy on this board, and my own diaries to try to make sense of this situation. I wish I had a clear action plan of what to do.

 

On one hand I'm not sure if this whole thing, going down to her dream or vision of us together is part of an overall scheme of 'emotional blackmail' of some form. The fact is I feel too bad or low to try to break up with her if I wanted to.

 

There is no stress or tax that is imposed by a relationship with her, right now, in my life, apart from the 'infidelity thing'. Most of our 'thing' is after work, which affords me freedom to be within my single-lifestyle until around 8-9:00 pm every day. I really don't feel stuck with her and she's really easy to be around with and doesn't call me very often.

 

Due to my economic situation, I'm not in a hurry to seek out other girls, and may just on occasion see a woman on a business premise, etc.... at worst, so what, some emotional infidelity may continue on this. If I start making deals or money, then that I would have more time on my hands to spend on other areas of life (i.e. such as other women). So, with the current-set up, I don't see any immediate threat with this girl being in my life where I feel tied down -- since I'm just as easily tied down with economic issues that are in my life.

 

I do not feel I'm stringing her along, but feel that she has just latched on seeing that I'm chronically single, and if I'm not going for another girl, then she's never going to get "the message" -- I regret telling her I ever used a fleshlight / porn combo and portrayed myself as that hard-up. She's the last person I'd want to feel sorry for me or seeing herself as an opportunity to save me from that sort of set-up, or try to heal me from any sort of past-hurt from any other woman which she feels is a reason I'm chronically single.

 

Unless I have a strong connection with another woman who qualifies as a potential prospect, and she also sees me as a potential prospect, and we are both into each other, I don't see how she can get a message to break-up. It looks like I'm having a nice time or good-time with her anyway, so it's not like I'm so unhappy as to want to be single or have her out of my lfie.

 

When I tried to break up with her in the past, stuff happened. She's accuse me of playing games, or would only 'get a message' if I'm interested on another girl, and if I correct her to say there is no other girl involved, then it gets twisted up again, and the relationship continues, maybe at a slower pace, etc...

 

I don't know. At the end of the day, I think I have a chronic cycle of negative thoughts that undermine the 'sexual purity laws' of the bible because I can't get a woman and allows some slack to autoeroticm and lustful thoughts -- which has of recently been articulated since Sept 25, 2008. For example, I bought an inflatable rubber blow up doll and put her next to my bed just to imagine how it would be like to have a naked woman next to me. I fondled it to see how a woman may feel like. That occurred between Sept 25-Oct 1 - 2008.

 

Just after that, I had a short-term encounter with a girl I meet earlier from the internet, and fondled her a bit (Nov 2008), but it crashed and burned badly at the end of November. Then there was this emotional connection with a married woman at the office. It just look like I was attracting weird or inappropriate stuff into my life. Then this girl I'm talking about started coming stronger into my life, starting with 30 minute conversations with her daily, etc..

 

My folks think it's good that I have her in my life since I get all these weird ideas that circulate in my mind (went as far as looking at documentaries about 'men and dolls (ie. real-dolls)', which just distrubed my folks like crazy. From this background, from my end, it's difficult to just end this relationship if we are getting along very well. It seems like part of that progression that started since September 25, 2008 and that blow-up doll thing -- like if I'm willing to go that far then having a woman like this is better than nothing. Now, because my girlfriend is privy to that 'fleshlight' thing (God forbids she finds out about the blow-up doll), then she is just taking opportunity to what she sees an an obvious vacancy.

 

But, now I'm not sure about even that now. It just seems easier to just cheat on her -- because if she thinks I can't go with another woman then a break-up message will get twisted up again.

[Miss Firecracker]

I'm sure you are not the only guy who has bought a fleshlight or a blow-up doll, Luke. People are meant to have sex, you know? It isn't a crime to do those things. And when it comes down to it, whether you use your hand, a fleshlight or a doll, it's all masturbation. It's normal and nothing you should be ashamed of.

 

How often do you see this girl, Luke? I'm not even sure I understand how far away she is and how many hours you see her in a week's time. I thought you said she lives a good distance from you.

[Miss Firecracker]

Oh, wow! I just learned something. I googled real-doll. OMG, they sure have come a long way with these dolls. The ones I have seen in the past were pretty much inflatable balloons. These look so much like real women it's scary.

[Kantriakhor]

Using that instance? You don't make sense at all. Would you go out with an insane woman yourself?

 

Your statement and follow-up make no sense, at least not with what I said.

 

Would I go out with an insane woman? No, I prefer my significant other have a clear head on her shoulders but if I was with someone and they became unhinged due to something then I would help them recover by getting them the help they need when it's outside my own fields of expertise.

 

I was saying that you tend to make everything about yourself and use your own actions as defining the parameters of your relationships with others to an extent where you feel you have some paranormal ability such as you losing weight to make things seem more "correct" or you typing here will send out some signal that will be picked up on by her.

 

Her alleged co-dependence and your tendencies dovetail here; one feeding into the other.

[Miss Firecracker]

Luke, going back to your last post, I am sure it would be easier to cheat on her than break up since she has the mental problems. And it's even highly likely she would rather be cheated on than dumped, you know there are women that desperate that just turn their heads and deny it. But that is no way to live, is it? And I know it goes against what you believe in.

 

And I agree she shouldn't find out about a blow-up doll. That would probably turn her off. And really I think it's wise not to tell anyone about your fleshlight or any other of your sexual habits. People who get angry sometimes take pleasure in ruining reputations of others.

[Luke Skywalker]

How often do you see this girl, Luke? I'm not even sure I understand how far away she is and how many hours you see her in a week's time. I thought you said she lives a good distance from you.

 

As many times as I want to. She's available virtually all the time for me.

[Luke Skywalker]

Luke, going back to your last post, I am sure it would be easier to cheat on her than break up since she has the mental problems. And it's even highly likely she would rather be cheated on than dumped, you know there are women that desperate that just turn their heads and deny it. But that is no way to live, is it? And I know it goes against what you believe in.

 

Okay, so this establishes a precedent here that I can cheat on her since I can't really break-up with her, or she's just not getting the message, especially if she starts getting these types of dreams and visions.

 

Cheating, right now is childsplay cheating... or emotional cheating (i.e. acting as though I'm single around attractive women rather than disclosing I have a girlfriend or keeping guarded up)...relative to this, I don't see an issue or problem with that.

 

In terms of more black and white areas of cheating (i.e. sexual cheating), I think she's lucky to have got a safe-bet like myself because that's not likely to happen at with anyone. However, I may be more open to keeping my mind roaming towards working on my game with other attractive women out there while stringing this girl along and keeping that as some sort of intentional policy.

 

What happens is my girlfriend becomes the first official 'piece on the side' if it doesn't work out with a girl I'm really interested in (which it's highly likely it won't), or I may end up cheating if we get married.

 

My girlfriend will not feel comfortable if I cheat on her, but I think she's prefer I cheat on her and just not know about it, or make her feel uncomfortable about it by bringing it up orally with her.

 

And I agree she shouldn't find out about a blow-up doll. That would probably turn her off. And really I think it's wise not to tell anyone about your fleshlight or any other of your sexual habits. People who get angry sometimes take pleasure in ruining reputations of others.

 

Well, I'm invisible, so I don't have any reputation to really ruin. If I were a man of status where there would be a risk of losing reputation, then I don't think those sort of behaviours or stuff would exist since I'd probably have women in my life, so I think that all balances itself out in some way. If I do become successful in life where a reputation would matter to other people, then I'm sure at that time, people would be more interested in my 'rags to riches' story, or success story more than focusing on what I did before. I don't think anyone would care right now.

 

In terms of disclosing this to women...I've never got a negative response from disclosing about a fleshlight to anyone. If anything, it just means I'm interested in sex, but just either can't get with a real woman due to fear of STD's, or have strict boundaries to which I would be sexual with, rather than just purely not being able to find a sexual partner. Probalby only three women this was disclosed to. Sometimes this is disclosed with the intent of scaring someone off. In this case, rather than breaking up with someone, I'd just likely just throw some information towards them that would make them un-interested.

 

However, as I've stated, anything I've mentioned to my girlfriend is backfiring.

I don't use a blow-up doll now, and I probably used it for one day last year.

So what? I'm sure lots of guys have used a blow-up doll at least once for kicks, or have tried out a fleshlight as a masturbation aid. However, when I represent myself as having no other options to my girlfriend and my girlfriend sees that I need a woman in my life, and she wants me, then this enhances her attraction to me because she is seen as more necessary in my life.

 

Of course, if you are dealing with an in-demand attractive woman, then yeah, these things could turn her off, then that's a totally new and different ball-game. Then again, some women would be turned-on if they find out you use a fleshlight.

 

In my experience, I think I had nice connections with women at my office when I was using my fleshlgiht if my memory is correct. What happens in those times I have more of a 'sexually liberated' mentality and am open to more things happening with me and usually there are nice memories and experiences out of that.

[Kantriakhor]

I honestly hope you never call yourself moral or a good person ever again, if you pursue this. If you go down this road then you're recanting any christian morals you profess to have. Dumping her is the decent thing to do.

 

You also can dump her, you're just choosing not to, you're not being forced to cheat, you're choosing to cheat (if you pursue this).

[Luke Skywalker]

I honestly hope you never call yourself moral or a good person ever again, if you pursue this. If you go down this road then you're recanting any christian morals you profess to have. Dumping her is the decent thing to do.

 

I already stated, that I can't really dump her or get rid of her. Since there is no other woman involved in a serious way, she's not going to understand any reason to do that if she's getting visions of me and her together and nothing I've said in the past that would be a break-up is getting through with her. She'll think she did something to get me upset or something.

 

Unfortunately, you do not have an understanding of this girl or overall situation, and just think Miss Firecracker makes sense while you are talking from some ivory tower that's disconnected from the reality here. Since I'm talking about emotional infidelity here, which is 99% of what cheating is defined as on this thread, and given the fact I haven't really meet that many girls and she's latching on to me and is not taking a 'no' as an answer, I really do not see anything wrong with that.

 

I can't just decide one day that she is crazy and ugly and I don't want her, like you said that's narcisstic. Dumping her would be narcissitic since that's a unilateral decision, and I'd likely have to dissappear as well so she can't call me or find me for at least a few months.

[Luke Skywalker]

I'm seeing my co-worker again tomorrow. I'm taking her to a financial services interview and this is totally business related.

 

There has been no technical breaches on the last time I took her out, other than the fact I paid for an expensive lunch. At the very least, I've never shook-hands or touched this co-worker and if anyone was looking at it, it would seem like a purely pleutonic business relatoinship. In fact, I think it's highly likely I'd get blown off if I tried to make a move or if she felt I was interested in her more than a friend.

 

Again, most people would not even define this as cheating, and I don't really see anything wrong with it. Chances are, this girl I'm taking out, probably is already seeing someone herself anyway, or has friendzoned me. Other than the fact I'm somewhat attracted to her and am taking her out somewhere (ie she's riding in my car), there is no other clear evidence of any serious cheating issue with this girl and this thread can be put to rest -- at least about this co-worker.

 

I don't have a strong enough 'will' to form a romantic or sexual intention with her, and feel it's probably a dead-end anyway, and I really do not think there will be any serious cheating in this relationship other than a roaming mind, or intentions that never materialize into anything noteworthy. This is fine as I'd rather have intentions to do something, but nothing materialzes, then to actually do cheat (in a real way, not childsplay stuff).

[Miss Firecracker]

I guess the fact you have been on your own for all these years caused you to fantasize about women a LOT. What other option did you have when you couldn't (or wouldn't) ask the girls out? It's probably hard to go from total fantasy to total reality.

 

Also, I don't mean you would deserve a bad rep for using the fleshlight. I only meant that it could be something people may joke about. You know, the actor that was found dead recently, "possibly" engaging in a self-torture sex game? I am sure now when people think of him, that will be more memorable than his great work in film.

[Luke Skywalker]

I guess the fact you have been on your own for all these years caused you to fantasize about women a LOT. What other option did you have when you couldn't (or wouldn't) ask the girls out? It's probably hard to go from total fantasy to total reality.

 

Also, I don't mean you would deserve a bad rep for using the fleshlight. I only meant that it could be something people may joke about. You know, the actor that was found dead recently, "possibly" engaging in a self-torture sex game? I am sure now when people think of him, that will be more memorable than his great work in film.

 

You are the most understanding voice on here. That's what I'm saying. I've been fantasy all my life on this stuff and it's difficult to bridge the reality and fantasy part. That's why, people like Kantriakhor are simply talking out of their behind when they simply don't 'get it'.

 

In terms of the 'bad rep' thing, I know an 'actor' may have suffered from a bad repuation. Heck even Arnold Swartzeneggar had mud thrown on him when he ran for governer about alledged groping incidents that happened decades ago. Now, if I was an actor, that would mean I would be highly visible and people would want to pry into my private life. But, one of the priviledges of being a nobody is simply that nobody really cares.

[Miss Firecracker]

Now, if I was an actor, that would mean I would be highly visible and people would want to pry into my private life. But, one of the priviledges of being a nobody is simply that nobody really cares.

 

Being obscure does have its benefits.

 

I do remember that one about Governor Arnold. It's strange, I don't have the best memory but can never forget a scandal.

[Kantriakhor]

Actually, it's not, doing something that's fair for both of you (you're not into her so continuing it is essentially lying) is fair, especially if the alternative is what you're proposing: cheating.

[Luke Skywalker]

Okay, there is just too much confusion with this. On one hand, I'm trying to fit both the co-worker and this other girl into my life in a way that makes sense to me, and without losing any a$$ on something stupid.

 

The co-worker looks like she is a best fit in terms of social proof. That is, since she is willing to go out places with me and try various things out, then she's really good to take out to social events, or other places so that I really do not look like a loner and have an attractive girl that's around me, and feel good. As a pleutonic relationship that works fine. If I feel I'm not man enough for her, or have that charisma or charm, but there is enough of a connection where she'll go out with me, then I see this as something that fits properly into my life.

 

My girlfriend, because she has mental issues and is not attractive, is good for going out various places, having some french kissing and sexual stuff going on, paying for my car loan, and paying for various dates, while at the same time I'm getting comfortable and getting experience going out with a woman that I'm not at the least intimidated by and essentially feel very comfortable. I think there is allot of ground to cover with her and see this "relationship" as continuing for a while. Ultimately, I would like to see her less, and eventually just once or twice a month while I pursue some girl that I really like, but just eventually have her on the side.

 

So, what I am doing now is just seeing how various women "fit" into my life, and put a policy on it, and see if that policy is appropriate for efficiently dealing with the situations as they come up. That way, I'm not going to stretch the interaction with the attractive co-worker because I already have enough room to do certain things with my girlfriend, and so that can be kept at bay or level. The point is just finding out what works naturally and sticking to it and learning from mistakes in the past where I didn't follow that policy.

 

What happened in 2006 was I stretched an interaction with an attractive girl I meet from the internet, neglected or wedged out an uglier girl that I may have had a chance in, then berated the attractive girl afterwards when I found out the hard way that she wasn't really into me and I was chasing a fantasy. That wedge occurred because I was honest. Now, I did meet women eventually afterwards, but just feel that sort of thing went pretty badly and don't want it to happen again by what seems to be analogous represenations in life with these two women. No more chasing fantasies and risking people that I really do have a chance with.

[Fionnuala]

Let me just clarify something, really quick: you and your girlfriend are exclusive, right? Because if so, everything you've said is still completely not okay. You should NOT be seeing how other people fit into your life when you are in an exclusive relationship with someone. If you want to see how other people fit and have this girl "on the side," then she shouldn't be your girlfriend, and she should be aware that this is what you are doing. The way you are doing it now is wrong and unfair to her.

 

You are using her and being 100% selfish in this approach. Not okay. You really need to end it with her. It makes no sense to wait for a "natural" end, when to you, a natural end means getting to the point where you've found someone else to take her place essentially. Selfish and cowardly.

 

If you aren't exclusive with her, then I guess you're well within your rights to approach things this way, but I still think it's wrong. But hey, it's your life.

[Luke Skywalker]

Let me just clarify something, really quick: you and your girlfriend are exclusive, right?

 

I think my girlfriend is mad and doesn't understand dating boundaries or what is exclusive or not exclusive. I've already gone through this on the thread. This exclusive thing can be another emotional blackmail or way that she's trying to illegitmatly exercise control into my life.

 

If you look at the relationship history, this is in no way any normal relationship that went exclusive. If a mad woman came from a mental hospital, employs emotional blackmail to fix a relationship, latches on to me when she sees I really have no-one, and said I was going to be her husband and I'm exclusive to her, then all of a sudden, it's really an exclusive relationship? I'd be crazy myself to believe that.

 

So, I'm siding with Miss Firecracker on this (unless she chooses to clarify what she said). Basically, it's better to cheat on this girl then it is to dump her. I would suggest you re-read the posts I wrote and how Miss Firecracker came up with that logical deduction to the facts I posted earlier.

 

Because if so, everything you've said is still completely not okay. You should NOT be seeing how other people fit into your life when you are in an exclusive relationship with someone.

 

It's exclusive to her. I can not say anything that will create a wedge with her so I can chase a fantasy. Even if we weren't exclusive, it's the same thing, these girls know they are already not attractive, and when you say or they think you are interested in someone else, they'll turn off pretty quickly.

You lose them, and the attractive girl you are trying to chase. They are not comfortable with anything that reinforces the idea they are not pretty and you are choosing, in any capacity, a prettier girl than they are.

 

If you want to see how other people fit and have this girl "on the side," then she shouldn't be your girlfriend, and she should be aware that this is what you are doing. The way you are doing it now is wrong and unfair to her.

 

I think Miss Firecracker is reading this situation accurately.

 

You are using her and being 100% selfish in this approach. Not okay. You really need to end it with her. It makes no sense to wait for a "natural" end, when to you, a natural end means getting to the point where you've found someone else to take her place essentially. Selfish and cowardly.

 

No, natural means when I've gotten to the point where there are no 'novelty' issues about being around 'a woman' in general anymore. That I'm not going to cry anywhere saying, I've never blah blah blah with a woman before and i'm xyz years old. I want that terminated once and for all. If life was fairer to me before meeting her, then maybe I would be fairer on my approach with her.

 

You see, I"m just trying not to stretch interaction room. If I have more room with another girl, then I wont be trying to stretch more room with other women. I don't see anything wrong with that approach. It's like choosing to use an airplane to go to Mexico rather than driving. Or choosing to use a car to go to a city that's thirty minutes away rather than using an airplane.

[Miss Firecracker]

Luke, I guess I should clarify my feelings a little bit.

 

I believe that ending it with this poor girl would be the best thing you could choose. And it seems to me you know this but just aren't ready to do it. I think you will probably end up doing it before long, and I really hope you do. But in the end it is you that has to live in this situation. I don't think you are happy with her in your life, and I am willing to bet she isn't happy either.

 

Luke, please tell me this poor ugly duckling isn't making your car payment.

[Luke Skywalker]

Luke, I guess I should clarify my feelings a little bit.

 

I believe that ending it with this poor girl would be the best thing you could choose. And it seems to me you know this but just aren't ready to do it. I think you will probably end up doing it before long, and I really hope you do. But in the end it is you that has to live in this situation. I don't think you are happy with her in your life, and I am willing to bet she isn't happy either.

 

She's happy I'm in her life as long as I tell her that I love her and am servicing her needs (i.e. french kissing her even if I'm not totally into her or not even in the mood for kissing, etc...). So, make a bet on that one.

 

I'm treating her very nice -- just because I'm writing about her on here doesn't mean that this reflects how we are interacting. And, I'm also alright with her being on my life. She had an orgasm in my Real-Estate office when I was feeling off her naked bum. Trust me, she's always having a great time around here.

 

I'm also happy that I'm having a fun time with her. Although, that's all it is really with me, a nice and fun time and think she's stretching this to an exclusive relationship.

[Miss Firecracker]

I guess I am just thinking how I would feel if I had to fuss and cry to make a man tell me he loves me. I wouldn't be happy at all.

[Fionnuala]

I have read the thread and your others, I know the relationship history, and I was still under the impression that you two are exclusive, regardless of how you got there.

 

No, it is not better to cheat on her than to break up with her. It doesn't matter how mentally unstable she is, it doesn't matter how you got into the relationship. What matters is that she believes (and you do on some level too, or there wouldn't have even been so many threads wondering about cheating from you, since you can't cheat on someone you aren't exclusive with) and you let her continue to believe that the two of you are exclusive. Under those circumstances, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU GOT THERE, it is not right to be pursuing or leaving room open for other women. If you know that this is not the woman you want to be with in the long run (which it is clear that you do, even if you don't always come out and say it), it isn't right for you to continue to string her along, so you can get experience.

 

If you are afraid to break up with her because you're afraid she'll have a breakdown, do you honestly think that cheating on her will be better? It will come out eventually, and do you REALLY think she'll take that better than you ending the relationship because you don't feel she's the right one for you? I've got news for you: she won't. She is not going to take the man she thinks God has chosen for her cheating on her any better than she is going to take him choosing to just leave her. The only difference is that the former is easier for you, and the latter is harder because it might be harder to get rid of her, and you won't get to have your fun learning experience in the meantime. Again, selfish.

 

And "if life was fairer to me maybe I'd be fairer to her"? Seriously? Sooo...because you've never done stuff with a woman before her, it's okay to use her, and be dishonest with her, and eventually possibly cheat on her...because life's been unfair to you? SERIOUSLY? How can you not see how completely, totally, utterly selfish, wrong, and cowardly that is?

 

There would be nothing wrong with your approach if we weren't talking about something that involves other human beings and their feelings. I get that you want to get experience and figure out what works for you. Life in general is often trial and error. But doing it in such a way that shows complete disregard for how your actions will affect those around you is not the way to do it. It's pretty obvious that all you care about is yourself and what you can learn and whether this is good for you. As long as you get what you want out of it, then who cares what happens to anyone else?

 

And sorry, no, "she's having a good time 'cause she's having orgasms, so obviously she's not complaining and it's okay," is bs. She is "happy" because you are telling her what she wants to hear, but you are not being honest with her. So she's happy for now, but you KNOW that eventually, you are going to have to be honest with her, and shatter that whole delusion she's living under. You're not doing a good thing for her by lying to her and keeping her "happy."

 

I know that you're going to come back with more excuses for why your choices are okay, because you're completely unwilling to consider the fact that it isn't, so I'm not going to bother replying again. But I hope that maybe I've given you something to think about.