Obervations on "emotional affair" with co-worker.

[EQD]

thats the ticket. just be sure your feelings of falling back towards her are genuine.

also try to address your feelings of 'superiority' over her.

some guys (its worth mention) use this as a means of feeling secure from pain, and emotionally unavailable if they constantly feel like they are the better deal.

trent reznor liked ugly girls. *shrug*

[Luke Skywalker]

thats the ticket. just be sure your feelings of falling back towards her are genuine.

also try to address your feelings of 'superiority' over her.

some guys (its worth mention) use this as a means of feeling secure from pain, and emotionally unavailable if they constantly feel like they are the better deal.

trent reznor liked ugly girls. *shrug*

 

I've agreed with everything that you've said so far. Perhaps I am afraid of pain and just have too many (perceived) negative experiences with women when I get too close to them, or am comfortable with a lifestyle that includes seasonal lapeses into looking at pornography and using a fleshlight which is totally detached from having to deal with another woman. So, given my own history, and fact that I felt penetrated emotionally yesterday morning by my girlfriend and it was somewhat of an invasive feeling, I think what you are saying is true.

 

What I disagree is with trent renzor. I've just done a wikipedia search on him and he is some sort of musician. There is nothing in that article mentioning that he likes ugly women. I checked who he choose to ultimately get married to and checked his wife's website, and she's a hottie, probably a 7-8 or even 9 as far as looks are concerned. However, I'm not a rich, famous, or successful guy here because I still live at home, don't have a stable career, and would be rather low in stock value comparative to that person.

 

My girlfriend on the other hand will get a disability income from the government that's quite substantial, ($ 1900 or $ 3600/mo or something like that) without having to work, can easily get a job and doesn't live at home. So, given the dynamics here, and the fact that we are spiritually compatable and she is serious with the Lord and seems to fit quite well in my world, and the weight that I give to other factors aside from "looks", I do not feel superior to her, or that I'm a better deal, but think we could be evenly matched. The only think is I believe my "looks" should be able to attract a hotter looking woman, or look more congruent with myself, if my overall package was good and I had some charisma. Because of my flawed overall package and lack of charisma I do not really think I`m settling since I`m not confident I can easily attract a better looking girl that I`m equally compatable with as with this girl.

 

If I had a history of girlfriends, or other relationships before, which included prettier girls, and at least a number of them, then I saw some value in this girl then that would be one thing, however, I think people I introduce my girlfriend too, that see me either constantly single, or with an odd series of dead-ends, will probably think that I just settled for this and really only like her because she is portraying unconditional love towards myself, or that I`m really so hard up for a woman I`d go for anything, just like a hungry homeless person looking in the garbage to find food to eat. While my family on my mom`s side or elsewhere may not express it, they may be thinking this in the back of their minds about me and that`s why I sort of feel uncomfortable sometimes. If you have an attractive woman by your side, people look up to you rather than wonder what is wrong with you. If I was physically ugly myself, or totally african black with some funny features, then I wouldn`t feel this physical mis-match. So, it feels like I`m just settling for something easy, and when you do that, it doesn`t look good.

 

As I continue to get to know her, I believe I will see more value for her and not care what other people will think, or feel that I have settled for some perceptively easy option that just presented itself with me that just happens to fit into my life like a glove.

[EQD]

Heehee, i was referring to marilyn mansons 'long hard road out of hell' book. back when he was good friends with reznor many years ago he mentioned this in his book.

i havent seen his wife. but i've heard of the drama between him and manson concerning this.

but anyway, the theory is widely recognized, so that was the point of my post.

 

the best relationships always have a sincere mentality that both partners compliment the other.

i havent looked too greatly into the dynamic but i'm in agreement with the theory.

[Luke Skywalker]

I'm going to update this thread pertaining to my girlfriend. She is very sympathetic to how I am doing in Real-Estate and is now offered to help me financially by paying me $ 500 to help with the car payments and also continuing to pay for dates. I'm going to have to discuss this with my mother as to what to do as she has insisted that I pay for dates and not receive any hand-outs from her as she claims that if I ever break up with her, or something happens in the future, she'll have that claim on my head, either that, or I would stoop to a new low by potentially taking advantage of someone. It is not that I'm flat broke -- I have my account fixed on a certain number and don't want it to go below that number, so it's not a matter that I need this money to survive. I also have lots of credit that's available (admittedly most of it is high interest credit cards, but available just the same).

 

There is no activity going on with anyone at the office currently and it's dead from this stand-point (i.e. no risk or potential of any emotional or sexual infidelity). However, $ 40.00 was still paid on a lunch with a co-worker last week, and I suspect that if I had opportunity in my life to choose a prettier girl (assuming we are compatable and she's accepting me for who I am), then what I did with the co-worker last week is not a good sign for that. I would hate to see me turn to a statistic where I potentially ditch a girl who is supporting me and is nice with me for a prettier girl down the road as my mother has usually referenced to with her family.

 

My mom has stories of a guy that was with a girl that he didn't really like, and that girl took care of him, paid for his college, etc... when he estabilished himself, rather than going back to the girl who invested in him, he ditched her and eventually married a more attractive girl. This is not a good story.

[Miss Firecracker]

If you feel this strongly that you will end up wanting a prettier woman, probably the best thing is to break off with your girlfriend now, Luke.

 

And I believe it would be wrong to take her money, very wrong.

[Luke Skywalker]

If you feel this strongly that you will end up wanting a prettier woman, probably the best thing is to break off with your girlfriend now, Luke.

 

And I believe it would be wrong to take her money, very wrong.

 

I do not know myself well enough to predict my own actions. Since I'm writing allot on here, it seems like I am taking the moral/ethics/fairness component seriously.

 

On one hand, I'm 33 years old and never had a girlfriend before, yadda, yadda, yadda -- and the lifestyle I had prior to meeting my girlfriend, with respect to women, is supposed to be the same lifestyle after having my girlfriend, which is why I'm supposed to be a safe-bet to her and to this relationship. So, even if I were to want a prettier woman, chances are, that would just be a fantasy and I'll likely just resort to a seasonal sort of lifestyle that just involves viewing some porn and a fleshlight and having some pleutonic friendships around and remaining single as has been the experience to date. My girflriend portrays herself as seeing through this and trying to get me off of autoeroticism by accepting her as a partner, or potential sexual partner (once we are married). I ain't choosing another girl to her, it will be inanitmate objects, such as a fleshlight or porn. (i.e. after September). But those things are just meant as a stop-gap release for safe-sexuality until I meet the right girl.

 

All I'm doing here is making observations as to the significance of me actually purusing a lunch date with a co-worker last week Wednesday with respect to where this relationship with my girlfriend is going.

 

Let's deal with the break up component before dealing with the financial. Obviously, the if the first is dealt with the latter is automatically dealt with. I'm either in a relationship or I'm not. I don't feel I need to break-up with her right now. I'm confused.

 

Assuming I remain in a relationship, it's still wrong to accept her money? What makes it wrong? The emotional infidelity vector, or that it doesn't seem I really need it as my own mind appears to be bending the reality of my economic circumstances somewhat.

[Kantriakhor]

Leave your mother out of your romantic life, you give her far too much control than is healthy.

[Miss Firecracker]

I still think it would be wrong to accept money from her. You will look at her differently if you start down that road. You may not want your money to go below a certain level, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. I think you'll live with that better than knowing you are using your girlfriend to boost your bank account.

[Luke Skywalker]

I still think it would be wrong to accept money from her. You will look at her differently if you start down that road. You may not want your money to go below a certain level, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. I think you'll live with that better than knowing you are using your girlfriend to boost your bank account.

 

How would I be looking at her if I start going down that road?

 

Technically, when we go out, she is using the car along with me, and we spend most of our time in the car. She has just offered to help with a car payment which would just be logical.

 

However, this on the presumption (at least I believe it's on a presumption) that I haven't taken out anyone else in that car other than my mother, father, or other family member, or any other person that's relevant for my business. If she found out I took out that co-worker and spent $ 40.00 on a lunch as this thread indicated that I thought was way prettier than she was and commited an act of emotional infidelity, then I don't think she'll be very interested in helping me.

 

I think to be fair with this, either I have to disclose what happened on June 3rd with that co-worker, or not accept the money if this is not disclosed. But then again, if I'm not planning to see this co-worker again in the immediate future or think things fizzled down (i.e. the lunch didn't enhance any connection to say there is a full blown interest with this co-worker too), then there's probably nothing about it to be disclosing.

 

If my girlfriend starts paying for the car itself, then no other girl should be allowed to ride in it, but I don't see that as naturally occurring, so I wont tell my girlfriend anything. If she wants to help out because I haven't made a deal in a long time and she is also using the car, then I think that's fine.

 

The dynamics of this reminds me of something that happened a few years ago. I disclosed to a girl who was not pretty that I was attracted to another girl and that created a wedge, and of course the other 'pretty' girl I never had a chance with, and as a result, the only girl there I did have a chance was wedged out on virtually nothing. Don't want that happening here. That's why I view chasing a prettier girl when you already have an interested 'uglier' girl is sort of just usually creating wedges and distractions with a women that I actually do have a chance with, and therefore agree again with EQD's assessment of this whole thing.

 

I'd rather settle with an ugllier woman, and have a relationship/marriage, and cheat on her occasionally (especially if she is naive and simple) with a pretty woman rather than try to go for any pretty woman. I'll read on that book merilyn manson thing later.

[Jelina]

I don't think it's right of you to stay with this girl that you find unattractive. You said that the reason you are with her is because she seems loyal and like a good girl. Do you think that you are using her as a safety net? Maybe you're with her because you think she can't do you any harm and you feel like you can just deal with her bad looks. I don't think it's fair for her. And wouldn't that describe the definition of settling for less? Aren't you settling for someone when in the back of your mind you feel like you deserve more? Isn't that being selfish? Don't you think she deserves someone who loves her the way she is? Haven't you forced her to be with someone who doesn't truly love her when she could be single or possibly be with someone who does love her? You mentioned that you don't think she is on your level and that your somewhat embarrassed to introduce her. You obviously don't love this girl. Have some consideration for this girl and leave her before you hurt her.

[Luke Skywalker]

I don't think it's right of you to stay with this girl that you find unattractive.

 

But she still looks like a woman, has a form of a woman, even if she's not attractive. She is a woman. She is 100% woman.

 

You said that the reason you are with her is because she seems loyal and like a good girl. Do you think that you are using her as a safety net?

 

As stated, I already have a system that consists of a 'fleshlight' and pornography (Sept-Dec, Jan-April) that is a 'safety net'. She came into my life as God's mission to unplug me from the 'fleslight-porn' system and plug me to a real woman. (we are not having sex until marriage)

 

Maybe you're with her because you think she can't do you any harm and you feel like you can just deal with her bad looks. I don't think it's fair for her. And wouldn't that describe the definition of settling for less?

 

 

I never said anywhere that I was settling for less with her. I think that with her level of interest, and deficiencies from my side, that there are some dynamics where this naturally works out.

 

If I were an independent, successful guy that owned my own home or lived on my own and had a social life where I am meeting new women, then I may feel I'm settling for less. If she loves me for who I am and not what I have or how successful I am or how much money I have in my bank account, I look at that seriously too rather than just how she looks.

[Miss Firecracker]

I am sure many men have married women that aren't pretty and know they aren't pretty. So many times when men come to this forum complaining they are alone, they say no way on earth will I settle. Then everyone tells them to be realistic. Luke is being very realistic, he knows he isn't the best fish in the pond and doesn't want to be alone his whole life. And he seems to have a great fondness for this lady, even though he will admit she may be a little bit backward socially and not a supermodel.

[Luke Skywalker]

I am sure many men have married women that aren't pretty and know they aren't pretty. So many times when men come to this forum complaining they are alone, they say no way on earth will I settle. Then everyone tells them to be realistic. Luke is being very realistic, he knows he isn't the best fish in the pond and doesn't want to be alone his whole life. And he seems to have a great fondness for this lady, even though he will admit she may be a little bit backward socially and not a supermodel.

 

That's correct, at least I believe I'm being realistic. However, you've also said on an earlier post that it is not a good sign that I want to have a secret relationship with her where I don't have to introduce her to my own circle of people or want her involved in my day to day social networks and wont even mention that I have a girlfriend. The reason being, on a scale of 1-10, she's like a 4. That's my mom's rating -- I'd say she's more like a 3.5. In a sense, I'd wish I was more uglier myself, (incidentally it looks like I'm deliberately starting to gain weight), so we wouldn't look like such a mis-match in public.

 

It's one thing if I've been with lots of girls and see something in her that's very special, but it's another thing if I'm just hard up to have a girl and want to settle some personal issues with being too inexperienced with women in general at 33 years old, or feeling that I somehow can not attract a pretty girl in my life, or have demonized 'pretty' woman as being superficial in one big brush stroke based on some bad experiences I've had in the past. To be honest, it's the second issue here right now, not the first.

 

Now that I'm seeing that this co-worker is accomodating with me and is willing to go out with me, and after all the investment in my own physique to make myself look more in shape and slim and handsome, I think it's possible to eventually attract a better looking woman into my life. I don't look that bad, I'm ambitious and want to improve my situation and I'm not settling for the reality that I have, and I'm sure that I have something that's marketable towards more attractive woman if I really want to pursue that.

 

So, this 'emotional affair' with the co-worker, as portrayed in this thread, if anything, is just a sign to me that this is a sham relationship, and I'm not really cheating on my girlfriend as much as the fact that I'm now thinking I'm deluded on a few things pertaining to my self-image, what I want out of life (women-wise), how important "looks" are really to me, or if I really want to be tied down to any relationship.

 

For example, with my business lifestyle (Real-Estate agent, financial advisor, networking, gym, having to take time to prospect for clients and meet new people) is something that I should feel quite comfortable with being single as I should have more time available for what I need to do be successful, and perhaps I don't need a relationship at this time anyway (i.e. I do have prohibitions against viewing porn or using a fleshlight between now to September 25th anyway, whether I'm single or if I'm in a relationship so there is self-consistency there)

 

I really don't know what to do. She will not break-up with me since she wont see it as making sense if I just want to all of a sudden become single and go back to using my fleshlight/porn at some point in the future, and I can't really say I have someone else that I'm interested in because I'm not really leaving her for someone else. I'm hoping this thing will naturally resolve itself when she comes back from the retreat....I don't know what else to say here.

[Kantriakhor]

No offense, but it seems you're a narcissist in that everything is about you, even her attractiveness is based on you.

 

Also, your mother is a bit too involved in your own romantic life than is healthy, unless you're all into that taboo kink which more power to you all if that's true but otherwise I question her involvement.

[Miss Firecracker]

You know, Luke, I think you are hitting on something.

 

You probably aren't ready for any relationship as of yet. And if you are trying to gain weight, slob up for her, that is certainly a bad move.

 

The post above mine was not intended to offend, but it seemed offensive to me. Slinging mud at Luke isn't helping much.

[Luke Skywalker]

You know, Luke, I think you are hitting on something.

 

You probably aren't ready for any relationship as of yet. And if you are trying to gain weight, slob up for her, that is certainly a bad move.

 

Alright, assuming we are in common agreement, then either I will be stringing her along by continuing seeing her and acting business as usual, or would be having some sort of secret relationship which I'm just going to hope is a phase on both of our lives which is just going to end naturally at some point in the not too distant future. I believe it's the latter, and perhaps this will naturally dissipitate.

[Kantriakhor]

You know, Luke, I think you are hitting on something.

 

You probably aren't ready for any relationship as of yet. And if you are trying to gain weight, slob up for her, that is certainly a bad move.

 

The post above mine was not intended to offend, but it seemed offensive to me. Slinging mud at Luke isn't helping much.

 

It's not mudslinging, it's an opinion that when someone frames their entire life (at least what they portray) as being decided on what they do, especially when going over things like his girlfriend, she's not attractive to him so he must gain weight to have it make sense in his own mind, that's narcissism.

[Luke Skywalker]

No offense, but it seems you're a narcissist in that everything is about you, even her attractiveness is based on you.

 

I do not see any constructive point to that remark. There are several issues raised on that post, and that is the only thing you can think of. Well, I have news for you, I think this girl is just as selfish herself.

 

This whole relationship started as an innoscent keeping her company on the telephone for 30 minutes per day when she was in North Manitoba because she was crying to me that she was lonely and had no-one. I felt sorry for her and talked with her. Then she went crazy and went to a mental hospital and claimed it was because I was playing games with her by not going to Winnipeg. Then I had to console her while she was there and I feel I am being emotionally blackmailed into getting close with her.

 

Now, she didn't have any man up there, and wanted company fine. I was single here and could interact with anyone I want to, which was also fine. That was all it was. Now, as she finds out I really do not have anyone, I'm single and using a fleshlight/porn, and starts latching on to me, saying I'm mean to her if I don't tell her I love her over the phone and that I have to be more tender towards her. Now I have to worry about 'emotional infidelity', and having my life potentially controlled by her in an unhealthy way.

 

So yeah, all about me ... so what about me -- what is it that "I" want in this whole thing? I'm just going to go along with her without even questioning that? Sure, she's going to put it as it's my benefit to be with her. What about it if I just want to date her, or have some fun, but don't want a serious relationship going to marriage? Or really want a prettier girl to introduce around with me?

 

Anyway, she is now in Toronto, and is having a retreat somewhere where she'll hopefully hear from God what it appears I'm typing or communicating here, she'll meet other people as she is in a big city at her church hopefully and it will just naturally go where it has to go.

[Kantriakhor]

She may very well be selfish, but that's not my point.

 

Also, I was using narcissism in the most clinical sense, any negative connotation is only added by you.

[Miss Firecracker]

Let's hope God tells her, that would be wonderful. But it doesn't always work that way, Luke.

 

This started out altogether wrong. No one should blackmail you into a relationship. That is for sure. Heck, I had guys string me around, break up with me, even just dump me without telling me. But I NEVER tried to blackmail a single one. Forget it. This lady apparently has some serious problems you won't be able to fix, Luke.

[Fionnuala]

It sounds to me like you need to end this relationship. Letting it go on because you hope it will just "dissipate naturally" is kind of naive and just asking for trouble. If you don't feel she's the right one for you, you should end it now. It's the right thing to do.

[Miss Firecracker]

It sounds as if Luke is afraid it will trigger another meltdown and hospitalization. Such a tough spot to be in I know. I'm sure if something happens to her you will be devastated, Luke.

[Fionnuala]

The longer it goes on, the more likely that it will trigger a meltdown.

[Kantriakhor]

It sounds as if Luke is afraid it will trigger another meltdown and hospitalization. Such a tough spot to be in I know. I'm sure if something happens to her you will be devastated, Luke.

 

This points, again, to narcissism in that he's basing her well-being based wholly on him going out with her. I'm fairly certain nothing terrible will happen to her if she gets dumped by a person who's not into her and is merely waiting for something to make her leave.

 

At best, it's clinical narcissism. At worst, it's cowardice.

[Miss Firecracker]

This points, again, to narcissism in that he's basing her well-being based wholly on him going out with her. I'm fairly certain nothing terrible will happen to her if she gets dumped by a person who's not into her and is merely waiting for something to make her leave.

 

At best, it's clinical narcissism. At worst, it's cowardice.

 

 

She already went to the hospital and TOLD him that he was the reason. Maybe you didn't see that part.