Blue Collar and White Collar

[melrich]

I always asked and the answer was always important to me

 

Then maybe your approach to dating men (hypothetically of course Mrs Batya) in terms of education is not "I preclude men without a degree because they probably don't value education" but "I preclude men who don't value education."

[shikashika]

I agree with melrich as to why many people get or don't get degrees. I got my undergrad because I knew I needed a degree to do certain jobs, and getting the degree got me that. Although I didn't mind half of the things I studied, I didn't have that burning desire to learn learn learn. Also, at 18, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so I thought I may as well go to university and do that while I was deciding.

 

Now I'm probably going back soon to do another degree, which, if I had the choice, I wouldn't do if I didn't have to, as I have a lot of experience in that area, but I need to get the 'piece of paper' to prove it.

 

I may even go on and do a Masters after that, but it will be because I want to improve my job prospects and salary... i can't think of anything right now that I want to study just for the sake of it.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong reason to want to pursue or not pursue further education.

 

When people say education is a deciding factor in choosing a partner with similar values, do you also ask why they got each degree? What if someone has a Masters but only got it so they could make more money? or, what if, as melrich said, someone keeps getting degree after degree because they don't want to go get a 'real' job (I use that term loosely!)

 

I know a few people who are in their early thirties / mid thirties who haven't left student life yet. I don't think there is anything wrong, or bad about that either...but everyone has a different reason for getting or not getting a degree.

 

It just seems like one could break it down so much like whether it was a research degree, or even what area... a Phd in Comparative Literature or an MBA are completely different but they are both graduate degrees. Would there need to be a reason as to why a person chose one over the other? Would it show different values if someone chose to do a PhD in Genetics over a PhD in film Studies?

[Batya33]

My younger brother is an actuary... The exams and studying they have to do, while working, even after their Bachelor's degree is endless and sooooo time consuimg!

 

Just curious, did your preference for a grad degree change when you got your grad degree? Or was it before then?

 

I know it did for a friend of mine.. when she had her undergrad, she wanted a guy who went to university. Then she got another Bachelor's and she wanted a guy with two degrees... then when she got her MBA she wanted a guy with a grad degree as well.

 

Oh I was going to say that too -- the exams are endless and are like getting another degree (I am not an actuary but I have friends who went through the grueling exam process).

 

Good question re the grad degree. While I was in college, and until my late twenties (ie after I finished grad school), I was fine dating someone who had not yet finished college but was on the "7 year plan". I dated two people in that situation. I knew from age 14 that I would go to grad school someday so the best I can remember, I always had somewhat of a preference for someone who had a grad degree because I aspired to have one. But it was never a strong preference or anything like a dealbreaker if he didn't have or want a grad degree.

 

As far as why people pursue higher education - sure, just like why people pursue a certain career, why they pursue certain hobbies - why they do or do not do volunteer work - it all goes into the mix of deciding on compatibility.

 

I answered this thread with my "minimums" - a minimum of a college degree - because while it might be a dealbreaker if someone said to me "I hated college, I went just because my parents wanted me too and I would discourage any child of mine who wanted to get this worthless piece of paper" it would be fine if he said "look, I am glad I went to college, it wasn't a great experience, and I'm ambivalent about its value, but I can relate to why you valued yours" - there are so many gray areas here.

 

What I can say though is that if someone chose not to get a degree because they were not intelligent enough or because it didn't matter to them it would have likely been a dealbreaker for me.

[StrawberryYogurt]

My younger brother is an actuary... The exams and studying they have to do, while working, even after their Bachelor's degree is endless and sooooo time consuimg!

 

I am so heartwarmed to see 2 references to actuaries Actuary represent! Yes, the exams are hard, but can't be that hard since an idiot such as myself has only 1 left to be a fellow.

 

Anyway, I agree with COD and Batya. It's just easier when people are on the same wavelength and come from similar backgrounds with respect to education.

[Batya33]

Then maybe your approach to dating men (hypothetically of course Mrs Batya) in terms of education is not "I preclude men without a degree because they probably don't value education" but "I preclude men who don't value education."

 

Yes, that is true although I would add "who don't value higher education" and in my personal experience since where I lived my whole life a college degree was very accessible to most people in my age group (20s and up, from the late 80s and onward) I wanted someone who valued higher education enough to accomplish at least a college degree.

[thejigsup]

If a man is blue collar but highly inrelligent, no problem! The most intelligent man I ever knew was a political refugee from a Communist country. He had dropped out of high school but was very nicely self-educated. He spoke many languages fluently and was great at math. Nothing wrong with his brain! If a man is not intelligent, even he is white collar, I can't relate to them. This never works for me. So, it is not money, it is brains that turn me on! Though I do love the green stuff.

[shikashika]

I am so heartwarmed to see 2 references to actuaries Actuary represent! Yes, the exams are hard, but can't be that hard since an idiot such as myself has only 1 left to be a fellow.

 

Anyway, I agree with COD and Batya. It's just easier when people are on the same wavelength and come from similar backgrounds with respect to education.

 

 

Anytime I tell people my brother is an actuary, they usually have no idea what it is!! A friend of mine said "Is that the name of his band?"

[FireInHeaven]

Batya, My post about Gates and Thomas wasn't even directed toward you. I was just making a comment that I thought was relevent to this thread. I didn't even read your posts.

[Batya33]

Batya, My post about Gates and Thomas wasn't even directed toward you. I was just making a comment that I thought was relevent to this thread. I didn't even read your posts.

 

That's fine - I felt like responding to it because it is a typical response to try to dispute the value of a college degree by pointing to wealthy people who did not get a degree.

[DN]

It is also a valid response. But it is not just wealthy people who succeed despite, or even because of, not having a college degree - a lot depends on how one measures success.

 

Similarly, there are many people who do have a degree who are educated but not very bright or whose intellect is limited and knowledge confined to a narrow field and as a result are much less well-informed and consequently less stimulating than some who did not attend.

 

A degree is not 'just a piece of paper' but it does have limitations if the absense of one is taken as an indicator of intelligence, ambition and congeniality. That holds true of all qualifications whether it be a plumbing certificate or a Ph.D.

 

When my wife took a course to qualify as a personal support worker (not a course considered a high qualification) two students failed the written exam- despite the fact that in their country of origin they were qualified medical doctors.

[Batya33]

The Bill Gates response is not relevant to those who prefer to be with someone who has a higher degree based on values (and common interests in some cases). It's also a bit off putting because it presumes that those who prefer someone with a higher degree have dollar signs in their eyes (which makes little sense - as we all know an electrician can make far more than a schoolteacher with a masters degree to give one of many examples).

 

I didn't see anyone on this thread say he/she preferred someone with a college degree because of wanting to be rich (as opposed to increasing chances of financial stability, which it does at least where I live/am from).

[shikashika]

If a man is blue collar but highly inrelligent, no problem! The most intelligent man I ever knew was a political refugee from a Communist country. He had dropped out of high school but was very nicely self-educated. He spoke many languages fluently and was great at math. Nothing wrong with his brain! If a man is not intelligent, even he is white collar, I can't relate to them. This never works for me. So, it is not money, it is brains that turn me on! Though I do love the green stuff.[/QUOTE]

 

hmnn... I was thinking about some other green stuff!

[Cognitive_Canine]

Bill Gates doesn't have a degree. And Dave THomas who founded Wendy's only had an 8th grade (?) education.

 

Okay, I feel the need to interject.

 

Sure, bill gates didn't have a degree. But he was from an extremely wealthy family who put him through one of the top prep schools in the country and then harvard (most of the way through).

 

He scored a 1590 (or maybe it was a 1560?) on his SAT (out of 1600).

 

His reasoning for dropping out were not due to bad grades. He dropped because he didn't like the direction it was heading and was already well on his way to developing software. His parents bought him tens of thousands of dollars on computer boards to tinker with. It was so rare to own a computer board in the 70's. Let alone own one strickly for tinkering.

 

Yes, he is an acception to someone who dropped out of college and became widely successful. But, he didn't flunk out of college (at least not while trying). You really can't call him a college drop out success story when his reasons for dropping and advantages outside of colleges were so widely different than the norm.

Just thought I'd clear that up.