I'm starting to realize I have no real friends :( Is this OK/healthy for a 23 yr old?

[Miss Firecracker]

Damn those ugly girls! LOL

 

Lily, that wasn't a nice thing to say about me.

[JadedStar]

"Some of the ugliest girls I know get asked out"? That is so harsh and really unkind. You have a terrible attitude problem. Maybe that's the issue. Maybe those "ugly" girls are smart and fun and kind and actually care about people other than themselves. Seriously, you have severe problems. Please get yourself some help.

 

As much as i like lily and want to help her, her comments like this are really alarming. IT seems she is so wrapped up in superficiality that she will find no kind of inner peace at all until she stops worrying her looks so darn much.

 

No matter how pretty someone is if they have nothing of substance to offer they won't get many substantial hits unless it is one night stands.

 

The thing about physical beauty and/or youth is it is fleeting. We all will lose it sooner or later. If we dont figure out what makes us tick and what makes us happy before that happens we will end up in an insane asylum when its gone and nothing is left to take its place.

[Lily04]

it was because i read this thread on yahoo! boards asking how many times do you get asked out... and a few girls responded like "oh i'm not attractive but probably 20-30 sounds about right"... I can't help it, I'm sort of competitive I guess...

 

I think I care about looks as it pertains to me... with men, I care much more about confidence/intelligence, but they must still, at minimum, be attractive to me... they may only be 'average' in the looks dept. but they can't be like hideous or repulsive to me, or unattractive because then... I guess the relationship won't be all that satisfying, esp. sexually... but most guys aren't physically attractive to me + intelligent/confident, so i think that's sort of why i am having problems. it's definitely not all about looks though...

[Batya33]

I was one of those ugly duckling girls. I was kind of cute, very thin (well, too thin back then) but my hair was a birds nest and I just was awkward. I also didn't have good self confidence either. and comments like you made about ugly girls - they didn't help, let's just say.

 

But I did have a really handsome, tall, amazing dancer and sweet guy boyfriend from age 15 to around 19 who did wonders for my self confidence - including teaching me how to dance. We had so much fun together, too. I am so thankful to him for getting me out of my shell back then.

 

The other guys I dated afterwards - some were really handsome, others not so much but even before I got more attractive (which I did, in my 20s/30s - getting better all the time, lol) -- I never had a problem finding dates. But, I always wanted to be one of the pretty ones because most of the time I felt ugly, awkward, just, weird looking. Wasn't a good feeling.

 

I guess in short I agree with JS and if you really feel that way about "ugly" girls you're probably giving off that vibe. Not a really good vibe to give off if you want friends or dates. I hope by writing this I saved one of those ugly girls the ugly experience of a look from you or some not so nice words.

[Lily04]

also, it's interesting because I think this just relates back to my insecurities earlier... i.e. in high school I was always known as the ugly/fat one so I really focused on my intelligence to make sure I got into a good college and was on the honor roll every year... etc. I really focused on my education... I even did math in the summer to make sure I got good grades when school rolled around. I was a complete NERD. Not ONE guy asked me out in all of high school.

 

I think after university, and I lost weight, I tended to focus more on looks because i didnt like the person i was in high school and maybe became too obsessed with it though... although my trichotillomania (hair disorder) affected my self-esteem tons...I never viewed myself as beautiful and my family always saw me as the ugly duckling compared to my sister. I think that may be why I'm subconsciously going overboard with this, because... i'm somehow trying to prove i'm not ugly. Even to myself. That's why I was always looking for affirmation, asking if I was attractive, because everytime I said I was, there was something in the back of my mind saying "you're not.".. it was only fairly recently i thought i was attracitve. my first bf was a complete nerd and not attractive by any means...

[Lily04]

please see my comment above to add some perspective, because as i said, i was always an ugly duckling as well... "But, I always wanted to be one of the pretty ones because most of the time I felt ugly, awkward, just, weird looking. Wasn't a good feeling. "

 

that was the same with me... to some extent, i still feel like this, which is why i am always dieting..

[Batya33]

Well you had me listening until the last sentence. what exactly do you mean he wasn't attractive at all? Outside looks? Nerdy can't be attractive? Says who? And what's your point -that you dated someone who wasn't as physically attractive as you? and what's the point of that? Sorry, I dont' get it.

[Lily04]

.. I knew you were going to say that. I almost edited.. I just meant that I didn't care that much about looks then. especially since i saw myself as ugly anyway... but our sexual relationship was horrible. i could barely kiss him... i didnt know why, i thought i had a physical problem or something, and he suggested i go to the doctor.. but then i learned that it was just because i wasn't attracted to him, because i had no problem kissing other men. but we stuck together for about 4-5 months... "by any means" I mean he wasn't physically attractive by any conventional criteria i guess - he was overweight, looked feminine, wore glasses, etc. but our personalities clicked so i dated him. from then on, i decided that i should at least be somewhat physically attracted to a guy though, otherwise it may not work...

 

After a while his personality started to get to me though and we broke it off...

[Batya33]

I differentiate between attractive looks and being attracted to someone. I've been attracted to what you would call nerdy looking guys and not attracted to men who look like brad pitt. go figure.

Like JS I find it difficult to relate to your difficulties because of your intense focus on physical looks and features. It's hard to find common ground and give you productive input because my input presumes a balanced focus on people -which includes looks to some extent depending on context (i.e., dating), but with your skewed perspective (skewed relative to mine) it's hard to know how to advise you to make and maintain friendships.

[Lily04]

well, friends are different than dating because i dont typically care about how attractive my friend is.. i'm not dating her! with men, i do care a bit more about looks admittedly... but for men, it's more about confidence/intelligence as i said. i'd just like some minimum amount of attractiveness that they should meet... otherwise it won't lead to a good relationship if i dont find him physically attractive.

 

I think I put more pressure on myself to look good than anything... gaining 8-10 lbs. has shifted my confidence so much but at the same time i'm vacillated between freaking out about it to being totally cool and not caring... just saying 'eff it.' I dont know what is the more productive course of action..what do you think? There's people on here (I think JS is one) who says she can feel 5 lbs. of weight and will work to lose it immediately, but for me... because I have a tendency to obsess i almost want to just be happy and not care... i feel torn.

[bulletproof]

well, friends are different than dating because i dont typically care about how attractive my friend is.. i'm not dating her!

 

You are missing the point entirely. Nobody is suggesting that you won't be friends with someone who's unattractive (although I do wonder). What I am saying and what I think others are saying is that you have a bad attitude towards humans overall, and that will carry over into all aspects of your life, whether it's jobs or school or boyfriends. You just don't sound all that likable. A lot of your comments are self-centered and mean-spirited. Even though this is an anonymous message board, this is still who you are at the core.

[browneyedgirl36]

"Some of the ugliest girls I know get asked out"? That is so harsh and really unkind. You have a terrible attitude problem. Maybe that's the issue. Maybe those "ugly" girls are smart and fun and kind and actually care about people other than themselves. Seriously, you have severe problems. Please get yourself some help.

 

I've read this whole thread and I haven't been able to figure out how to respond...I'm totally at a loss, here.

 

I will say that I can't even fathom calling other girls/women I know "ugly." I think it's one of the worst things a person can say about another person.

 

Lily, all I can say is that I hope that, as you get older, you will come to value and appreciate more than just what is on the surface. I sense that you have some deep, deep insecurities, and your focus on looks -- yours and those of other people -- is a symptom of that. Perhaps you think you fall really short in other areas, hence your over-emphasis on looks as a measure of your own value and the value of others and your tendency to constantly compare yourself to others.

 

Food for thought: Physical beauty is no guarantee that anyone will like you, want to hang out with you, buy you a drink, want to date you, fall in love with you, want to marry you, give you a job, etc. It is no guarantee you will have friends. It is no guarantee that you will be successful. It is no guarantee that you will be safe from loss, disappointment, abandonment, disease, tragedy. It is, quite simply, a shell -- an outer coating. It amounts to little more than that. It is so important that you put it in its proper perspective. I think that some counseling to get to the root of your insecurities might really help with this.

[JadedStar]

Food for thought: Physical beauty is no guarantee that anyone will like you, want to hang out with you, buy you a drink, want to date you, fall in love with you, want to marry you, give you a job, etc. It is no guarantee you will have friends. It is no guarantee that you will be successful. It is no guarantee that you will be safe from loss, disappointment, abandonment, disease, tragedy. It is, quite simply, a shell -- an outer coating. It amounts to little more than that. It is so important that you put it in its proper perspective. I think that some counseling to get to the root of your insecurities might really help with this.

 

Exactly. And on the one hand i think she knows this but on the other she seems to ignore it.

 

Lily, bottom line is no matter how pretty you are until you change your mindset and attitude about people you are going to continue to strike out - not just romanticallly but even in making friends. I like you because i understand your obsessiveness since i used to be like that but the other stuff you say here, if i knew you in person it would be very difficult for me not to tell you that if it continued i'd have to just not associate. If i heard you talk about "ugly" girls and then listen to you say you are a beautiful model who should have drinks bought for her and then in the next breath obsess about your weight all night I don't think i could tolerate it. I fear this is why you are losing friends.

 

I hope you see the light soon as I know being friendless really is bothering you.

[15 Storeys High]

Sometimes you come accross as very arrogant, shallow and, to put it bluntly, really mean. Especially when you're talking about other women. Now, if I can pick up on that over an internet forum imagine what the people that know you personally might feel? I think you are one of those people that speaks before they engage their brain. This isn't to say that you aren't intelligent.....in the bookish sense you're probably more intelligent than many people. What I'm talking about is emotional intelligence, which you seem to lack. I think you are nice to people initially but then your insecurities prevent you from engaging in a meanigful relationship. Your defensiveness is very, very evident and I think that is what causes you to be so mean about and to people. I don't think you are actually arrogant but I think the way you try to present and defend yourself comes accross that way.

[JadedStar]

15 stories nailed it in regards to emotional intelligence. your IQ is probably pretty high but your emotional IQ needs a lot of work and tweaking in how you relate to people.

 

This plagues many very smart people. I know a few folks who are way above average in their intelligence but have no clue how to socialize or relate to people. For some it comes natural, for others they have to work really hard at it. Some succomb to who they are intellectually and dont try at all and as they age they can often get worse and worse as far as how they relate to others.

 

At least you are aware of this and getting a lot of tips on it young. Definitely don't skimp on the therapy you are talking about getting. That will be a huge help. Much more than what we can do over an internet forum.

[Lily04]

Thanks guys...I don't think you should necessarily knock the advice on this forum so much though... in many ways, you've been more helpful than my own psychiatrist, lol...

 

edit: I have to say I hate bureacracy/processes though... tomorrow for counselling I have to go for an initial 'prescreening' type of session, I think to see what my problems/issues are (which is like a 15 mins session or something) and then they can schedule an actual session... and to change psychiatrists is a whole other process. Why do they make things complicated... it's tough enough for me to make time to come down there, for 15 mins.. might as well just start the session.

 

Also, if you have any ideas of what to discuss please let me know... I am thinking of raising the following:

 

- trichotillomania

- weight/body image issues..

- time management skills

- insecurities

- maybe friendship issues?

 

I don't really know what else to say.... I suppose 'obsessive-compulsive/anxiety' issues in general, time management, and insecurities would be the 3 main categories of problems here...

[stella74]

That's a good start! Good for you for following through with seeing the psychiatrist. It will help you. I also want to commend you for listening to a lot of the posts on here and taking them to heart. I agree that if you can develop your emotional IQ, you will have more friends and feel better about yourself.

[Lily04]

That's a good start! Good for you for following through with seeing the psychiatrist. It will help you. I also want to commend you for listening to a lot of the posts on here and taking them to heart. I agree that if you can develop your emotional IQ, you will have more friends and feel better about yourself.

 

some of the posts and posters on here have been very helpful for me, and I can see the truth in what they say. Although I may seem 'superficial', I can luckily usually process information objectively about myself, so I have no trouble acknowledging when I know I'm wrong and where I may have issues... I may sometimes contest some of the points people make on here but sometimes it serves as clarification for myself, and other times it's because I think there is a misunderstanding, or I want to add more context. So I can acknowledge that I do emphasize looks too much, but also recognize that the reason is because of my own insecurities about my own..

[Batya33]

Yes, that is true, but your pattern of referring to other people's looks - especially "ugly" people and the harsh way you compare other's looks to your own says to me that while you are processing, you're not taking action to change your behaviors even when it's pointed out to you over and over again. It's a good skill to be able to process information but without acting on it even in a small way, what's the point? The hard part isn't processing -- that's just a good first step. The hard part is changing. Been there done that (not on this issue but on other tough issues).

 

I should say of course if you disagree you don't have to change your behavior but you wrote that you do agree.

[pinkelephant]

heh, it's funny. you have the same name as me but youre a lot like my ex bestfriend. she was the "ugly duckling" back in middle school then through out highschool, she just focused on how to make herself more beautiful.

 

she's a gorgeous girl, but so insecure. she's always so spiteful and mean about other people's looks. she laughs at people for being "ugly" in her eyes and people's attractiveness was always a fact. if she thinks they're ugly, there's no questioning that, they're just simply ugly and not worth as much as her because she's beautiful. she'll say something like you did: "oh shes SO ugly why does she even have the nerve to do "insert whatever thats completely unrelated"?"

 

she's quite nasty and that is why i'm not friends with her anymore. she has a few friends, but no real ones that she can share her thoughts with because... she just simply a nasty person. she's so narcistic as well, and that's kind of the vibe i get from you.

 

i read a thread of yours awhile ago about talking to profs about getting extensions and just special treatments and its like you think you deserve things that most normal people dont and you think rules just simply dont apply to you. you think you're just too special or something? it's sort of narcistic. i dont want to be mean, because in some ways, i'm a lot like you too. so i totally relate. but it needs to be said, i stop being friends with my then bestfriend because she was so judgemental and self centered. i got called that too, but i didn't mean it but it came off as something really really nasty. so if you don't mean it like i did then you just need to focus on realizing what you're saying and realize that it's mean and nasty. but if you do mean it like my then bestfriend, then some counseling is desperately needed.

 

 

because i think this is the reason you have no real friends.

[AronSchneider]

I have four ”best” friends, but one live abroad, one live in another city, one is always busy with his studies and his girlfriend and the fourth has been depressive after an serious accident. (He lost 70 percent of is vision) but we hang out a lot. He still gets a lot of chicks. Then I have three “good” friends but one of them live abroad, one of them is always busy and the other one has created a new life and is also very busy.

 

Then I have some former working buddies, course mates and old High School friends. Mostly I just go out on clubs or drinking with them. I’m rather good at making new friends but I think it’s hard to keep them. When I had my ex for five years I did not make so many new “friends” and I neglected them I had because I was rather busy.

 

I had my spare time work, my studies, hanged out with my ex and then we socialized a lot with other couples and then when it was time over I hanged out with my close friends so I lost contact with my before very large social contact net. But now when my ex dumped me I have started to contact “Old friends”. I feel less alone now then before, when I was with my ex because I was so depended on her social network. Still I think I most learn to be a more “loving” and "happy" person. My ex is very social, she has a lot of friends and is making new one very fast. But she has also been very cruel to her former friends I have noticed, like she don’t care about them anymore. She dumped me because I wasn’t cool enough, I think.

[Rockchick26]

Wow,the more i read postings on this site,the less alone i feel! I wish we all lived closer so we could all hang out with each other since we're all having the same friend issues I also have mostly older friends or friends with kids who don't have time to keep up a solid friendship. I have more like casual friends,not a lot of friends I can just show up and plop down on their couch and say "what do you feel like doing tonight?" Thats what i want. I have a few "close" friends online,in other states,but even they do * * * * ty things to me a lot and i end up losing faith that i have any real friends at all.

[Rockchick26]

I just read al 8 pages of this thread LOL And i have to comment on the whole "ugly" thing. I sometimes do this so maybe this is what Lily meant by it. It's called making an observation. And i dont care what anyone says,not everyone on this Earth is beautiful on the outside. Some people ARE painful to look at because they are simply,unattractive. I might throw the word "ugly" out there to describe someone who is unattractive,but i am not saying the person is unworthy of being alive or anything! Just stating a fact. My mom is a very friendly sweet woman and tonight we were watching a movie and she said "Boy is that guy ugly!" Now i know she was just making an observation,nothing more nothing less. Its just another way of saying that person is not good looking. And i dont care who you are,there ARE people that you consider not good looking. So i dont know why people have to rip on us "superficial" people...there was even a scientific show on the Discovery channel recently that explained what makes someone beautiful over someone who isn't beautiful.

 

I didnt mean to go on and on,i just felt like Lily was being attacked for something we all do (sometimes with different choice of words,or sometimes not spoken out loud).

[Batya33]

Obviously I have thought that people look ugly in my lifetime and I probably will again, perhaps today, who knows. My point was that if you read the OPs many threads, how she judges "attractiveness" and "unattractiveness" is not "pretty" v. "ugly" - she refers to her ranking system of 1 to 10 and it is pretty clear from her many posts on this subject that to her unattractive doesn't mean someone whose features are scary to look at, but rather within her peer group, those women who shouldn't be having the interest they are having from guys because they don't make the cut of being a 7, 8 oout of 10 whatever she "ranks" herself as.

 

That is why my advice to the OP is and has been that people are not comfortable when they can sense they are being judged or compared to the extent the OP seems to be doing, as much as I \can gather from her words. To the extent - that's the point, not whether people normally notice that someone is very beautiful or very ugly. She said she wants friends, and one way to establish rapport is to make the other person feel comfortable with herself in your presense. That won't work if either she hears you making the comparisons that are being made by the OP in this thread or even senses that level of comparison. If she hears it, even about others, she likely will be concerned that the same kind of comparison will be done about her when she is out of earshot. That erodes trust or the building of trust.

 

I found her particular way of comparing taking way too far the unattractive/attractive concept and focusing far too much on features and whether the woman in question is slim enough, etc. All of these relatively minor distinctions that have little to do with a person whose features are so distorted that they have ugly features to most people.

 

I have done that type of comparison when I've been extremely insecure (mostly when I was Lily's age or younger), when I've been in a dark or negative mood, and it made me feel ugly, for lack of a better word, created distance between me and people in general (because it's negative energy), and distracted me from things that matter. Nothing to do with noticing someone who is ugly or beautiful.

 

 

People with imperfect features (imperfect as compared to the model or near-model standard the OP typically uses in most of her posts) can sparkle, can have a very attractive presense or energy, etc that just looking at their features in a clinical way you would never know. They also may not- you never know by just looking at them. It's not about the tired old personality v. looks - it's more subtle than that.

 

That is what I was referring to - not the extremes you were referring to in your post.

 

If you had read the OPs many other threads on this subject you would have seen the context in which I meant my comments - you may disagree but my guess is you would see that there was no attack meant and this was not the general concept you refer to.

[Lily04]

I sort of feel like people misinterpret or don't understand what I am saying though, re. attractiveness. I don't judge people based on attractiveness or choose friends by how attractive they are by any means..... most of my ranting on here re. attractiveness that tends to draw criticism is when I say things like "Well, I'm attractive and don't have a bf... guys don't ask me out... but I know many girls who aren't that attractive who get asked out all the time..." and then I wonder why... in some ways, I might actually be feeling insecure myself. Typically because men care more about attractiveness than personal qualities like personality/ambition, etc. so it sometimes surprises me that girls who are not attractive at all get so much attention...

 

I guess I learned that other variables account more. But in terms of friendship, I don't really care if people are attractive or not... it's what's inside that counts. When dating, I do consider both, however.