39 year old depressed lonely virgin

[Kyoshiro Ogari]

She beat me like a rag doll when I was a small child. My sister and only sibling, was treated like a princess, and now as an adult she acts like a spoiled rotten brat. Sorry if I misslead you, I don't hate my mother. I just hate what she did to me.

Hello. I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am in somewhat a similar situation as you with an anxiety towards women.

 

I notice in some cases that an extreme condition in a person's life is usually brought on by something that happened in their childhood.

 

I am sure a therapist asked you this, but let me try. You said your mother beat you badly when you were a kid. That to me shows a woman in an incredibly powerful authority position over you, more so that it should be. The physical and emotional pain of a woman beating you. I can see that these beatings have taken a toll on your psyche obviously, but it may have effected you in more ways than you can imagine. Subconsciously, you could see this in your potential mate, that you would be helpless in the relationship. That perhaps when your mother beat you, you felt that she hated you, so naturally if the most important person in your life hates you, why wold a complete stranger feel otherwise. Of course, that is 100% false. Could this be a part of why you fear women?

 

I want you to try this. The next time you see a woman and you get the anxiety attacks, try to zone out for a second and ignore the woman but concentrate on the fear. Try to find out what it is exactly that is causing the fear. It is definitely an assumption of the future, but what do you see in your future with this woman that stands before you? She won't beat you, but do you see her giving you the same type of pain emotionally as your mother did physically?

 

I am speaking on experience. No, my mother never beat me, but I had an experience in my childhood that effects me to this day. Like I said before, I am just like you, 5 years younger, but my anxiety is not as great as your's, though it still has a heavy presense in my life. Most of it is because of my looks, but there was something subconscious in me that just today I discovered that effects my thought for the future.

 

The only girlfriend I ever had was in 1st grade. Everyday, we held hands during nap time. We sat in front of each other at school. We were the two smartest kids in the class. We sat next to each other at lunch. We called each other a few times a week. She was a blonde, so this is probably why I like blonde hair a lot. I was actually the most popular kid in school because I was funny and made everyone laugh. The girls liked me and there were about four or five girls who did, along with my girlfriend. So naturally, I felt good.

 

The summer break came but me and my girlfriend never called each other during the break. When 2nd grade game, I couldn't wait to see her. But the first day of school, she wasn't there. Neither were those other girls who liked me. I figured (hoped) that they had the flu and they would show next week. When she (they) didn't show up the second week, I was devastated and alone. Heck, even my best friend transfered. I felt abandoned because my girlfriend didn't tell me she was being transfered. I believe this is when my depression started, September 1981.

 

That abandomnent, even though it wasn't that at all, gave me a subconscious feeling that I wasn't good enough for her to stay. It wasn't about me, it was about school.

 

Coincidentally, I met "my ex" lol again in 7th grade as we attended the same junior high and high school. I never grew a crush on her or anything. It just went into my back pocket. I secretly watched her from afar as she continued to get good grades and stuff. But one day I saw her with a good looking guy, with their arms around each other. While I didn't have feelings for her, this bothered me greatly. As weird as it sounds, it was like she was cheating on me since we never officially broke up. That abandonment from 1st grade began to resurface, but I never thought it would play a role in my anxiety towards women.

 

I wonder if your mother's beatings are leading you to fear women because you fear they will treat you the same emotionally, even physically.

[iamthenra]

You said your mother beat you badly when you were a kid. That to me shows a woman in an incredibly powerful authority position over you, more so that it should be. The physical and emotional pain of a woman beating you. I can see that these beatings have taken a toll on your psyche obviously, but it may have effected you in more ways than you can imagine. Subconsciously, you could see this in your potential mate, that you would be helpless in the relationship. That perhaps when your mother beat you, you felt that she hated you, so naturally if the most important person in your life hates you, why wold a complete stranger feel otherwise. Of course, that is 100% false. Could this be a part of why you fear women

 

Maybe? Not sure really... I do know that I felt that she hated me, so that part is right on. Later in life now, I do honestly believe that she just hates all men, and since I was a "male", that made me the evil one in her eyes.

 

To be honest with you, when I see a gorgeous lady. The first thing I feel besides the anxiety, is that I am not good enough for her, or I am way too old for her. I am horrible at judging age, and that is part of my fear too. Other fears that I have are that I honestly don't know what to say. I am not a smooth talker, and I stumble allot in my speech. I don't stutter, I just can't think of the words that I want to say when I am in front of others. It's like I get a mental block, and the more nervous I get the worse it gets. I think when I see people I automatically group them into two groups. Group one is called "potential partner's" and the other group is "just a person".... The "potential partner" group is more threatening to me and much more nerve wracking to me because I want to impress them and ask them out etc... But the fears and anxiety take over, and I feel that I just don't have what it takes to do it, so I give up before I even try. I defeat myself every time. I also fear that if she knew that I was a hunter and or didn't want kids, that she wouldn't want me either....

 

I really am feeling doomed, and horribly frustrated. Just watched Pirates of The Caribean, and when Will Turner kissed Elizabeth Swan's leg...... Okay, feeling very frustrated right now.... She is SOOO GORGEOUS!!! Life sure isn't fair. Sorry, for changing the subject. It's no wonder why married people live longer...

[scotty77]

You aren't alone! All shy men experience these feelings to a degree.Shy people freeze whenever they are around people they are attracted to.

[iamthenra]

Maybe it's even deeper than that? Low self esteem, yes that is 100% true. But maybe it's the whole "guy" thing entirely. I mean, if it weren't for hormones we would not be possessed in chasing after females. Maybe it's just too much testosterone for some males, and too much of it causes frustration at a very early age, and steadily increases as we get older, which then triggers depression to occur. And who honestly wants to even be in the same room as someone who is depressed, or horribly horney/perverted? Happy/fun people are a magnet or rather they seem to be. These people don't even try to find someone, everyone just seems to gravitate towards them like a magnet with iron. So maybe that is the key. To treat the depression?? What if you are depressed because of sexual frustration, and there lies the catch 22 that Scotty77 posted earlier. If lack of sex or a girlfriend is causing depression, and nobody wants to be around someone who is depressed, then how can this person overcome the depression? Hmmm?

 

I had a friend a long time ago that was very very outgoing, and hyper and fun to be around. He had allot of energy, and was always laughing or cracking jokes. Very bubbly person to be around, even though his jokes kind of stunk, very crude humor, his mind was always in the gutter, but people and women seemed to cling to him like glue. No matter where he went people were always around him, even at work. He had a HUGE ego anyways, but my point is that he never had to ask anyone out. Most ladies just hung out with him and he could pick and choose who he wanted to be with any given night.

 

Like that one gal I met from Florida, she told me that I lacked confidence and confidence is a HUGE turn on. Her advice to me was to never tell any future girlfriend that I was a virgin. She told me to lie and never ever say that I was inexperienced with women. I have problems with that though. I can't lie, I just won't do it. That goes against what I strongly believe in. I believe that nothing good can come from a lie. Trust is based on truth, and I would want to know the truth about someone. The golden rule is important to me.

 

Coming home from work tonight, I almost went to the bar to try to meet people. Almost..... Just couldn't deal with the anxiety...

[Luke Skywalker]

The following is not advice, but just meant to share experience - please do not take any of the following as any advice directed to your situation:

 

There was a point of time I was looking for special herbs that would suppress my sexual interest with women and would turn me into an asexual. I've lost the link to the site that sold this product, but I feel, if a drug or herbal substance like that existed, and I was in your boat, that I would try and take it. I mean if you cant win, then you have to just give-up and this makes it as painless as possible.

 

I mean to write because I identify with you to some capacity. In fact, I'm conspiring to hire a hooker on the week of Valentine's day to be beside a naked woman and see how I would react, if I would touch her, talk to her, or just stay away from her and will try to get my dad to pay for it when I bring this idea to him later. (My dad sabatauged a free casual hook-up about a year ago so I think he's responsible for either arranging a free casual hook-up or paying for one).

 

Cheer up man though - you are not the only desperate guy on this board if that makes you feel better.

[scotty77]

If you happen to meet the right girl your lack of experience isn't going to be a big deal.I wouldn't admit that you are inexperienced with any women you happen to meet.It's not really lying,from the first moment you speak to her she is likely going to pick up on the fact that you are painfully shy.I asume you speak softly and are softspoken as most shy people are.Bars are terrible places for shy men to try to meet someone,yet I seem to find myself in one once a week.Perhaps finding the right environment for you to interact with women ,instead of undertaking a huge attempt at revamping your personality is the answer .Good luck!

[scotty77]

I don't think giving up is the solution ,trying to find the courage to succeed when all of the odds are against you sounds like a better plan in my book.

[Luke Skywalker]

I don't think giving up is the solution ,trying to find the courage to succeed when all of the odds are against you sounds like a better plan in my book.

 

I think the point the OP is making is that you cant find solutions in paradoxical scenerios known as catch-22's, unless of course you get lucky to break a catch-22. Most people have experimented or have had their first romantic and sexual experiences in their teens and early twenties, so if you are 39 years old then then people do not understand that and is worried that girls are going to be scared away from him before even giving him a chance.

(But then again, you miss 100% of the shots you dont take - even if you get a shot by a fluke you still win right - you just need one right shot to go your way)

 

However, the OP doesn't feel that is possible in his case because he feels depressed and sexually frustrated and thereforeeee he feels there is no solution because women are just going to run from that, and he cant lie to them (although guys lie sometimes to get into a woman's pants or to get a relatinoship, or whatever, and women lie too, to protect their true selves while the op is doing the opposite).

 

thereforeeee, if you cant find a solution then you give up because it's just bothering you and it is just a dead-weight to enjoying an otherwise good quality of life.

[iamthenra]

I tell ya what, I HATE testosterone. If there was a way to get rid of it with out chopping the boys off, and without adding to the depression. I would go for it in a heartbeat. I was a very perverted young boy when I was in 1st grade, I begged a classmate to put on her dress that she wore before lunch. (she had changed into jeans....) Throughout grade school I remember pushing pencils off the desks to look up girls dresses. Don't know how normal that is, but I know that I was more interested in girls anatomy than playing with cars or trucks or doing what other kids my age were doing.

 

One of my therapists, sent me to the University of Minnesota's "Clinic for sexual health". Which is filled with psychologists, and a few psychiatrists. I only saw the therapists there. They thought I had "sexual obsessive compulsive disorder".... I guess that's just a nice way of saying "pervert" huh? Yet another thing I can add to my growing list of problems with me... It's no wonder why I only have one so called friend. I am just too messed up for the average person. Heck if I were someone else, I wouldn't want to hang out with me either.

[scotty77]

I think a lack of experience doesn't have anything to do with women being scared away from the OP. On the flip side do you really care if some girl you want to date has previous experience?I know I could care less.People remain single for a variety of reaons,obviously shyness and social anxiety can severely hinder one's pursuit of a relationship.Would the OP want to be in a relationship with some woman who is going to mock him for his lack of experience?

[Luke Skywalker]

There is no sexual compulsive disorder with you as far as I know - you are a virgin for crying out loud, not a rapist. Where do they find these people to work as therapists, are they on crack?

[Luke Skywalker]

I think a lack of experience doesn't have anything to do with women being scared away from the OP. On the flip side do you really care if some girl you want to date has previous experience? I know I could care less.

 

I dont think girls see this the same way as guys do, or that seems to be the impression that I have been getting, I think most women will find weird if a guy is a virgin beyond a certain age or never been in a relationship and will be seriously put off or turned off, while most guys wouldn't care just as long as she puts out. Secondly, it may not seem very masculine if you are an older male virgin, but that would fit more nicely with an older female virgin, so it's again likely this will be seen differently on different genders.

 

People remain single for a variety of reaons,obviously shyness and social anxiety can severely hinder one's pursuit of a relationship.

 

Wha about catch-22 phenominon and involuntary celibacy? What about fate and destiny? What about having no luck?

 

But hey, being single is better than having limerances and heart-breaking crushes, break-ups, or whatever....but having depression still sucks.

 

Would the OP want to be in a relationship with some woman who is going to mock him for his lack of experience?

 

But that lady seems to represent a concensus of what most normal women are likely to think about a 39 year old virgin guy.

 

Some women wont date a guy if he has less than a few girlfriends or whatever in his life - I've even read it on threads here - it's like they are asking, what is wrong with this guy - too much emotional baggage.

[Blue Dreamer]

that I am not good enough for her

 

You have to banish that kind of thinking. That perception is exactly what will keep you where you are today. You must directly work on the areas in which you are insecure. You need to develop a self that you are willing to sell. Eliminate those self fulfilling prophecies and enhance the many positives you already have.

 

Would you want to date yourself "as is"? Strive to a level where you can answer "Yes" to that question.

[iamthenra]

There is no sexual compulsive disorder with you as far as I know - you are a virgin for crying out loud, not a rapist. Where do they find these people to work as therapists, are they on crack?

 

Thanks for the laugh.... Oh and by the way, this was the director of that department, that made this diagnosis. You should have seen his office. It was filled with statues and dolls with rather large penis's. Some where just a erect penis, and they were all around his office. Of course I couldn't help but laugh when I first got in his office. He didn't find humor in his collection at all. If I was going to have a collection of human genital's it sure would NOT be the penis.... Me thinks he was "gay"... not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

Since I have changed the subject... My sister thinks that I should go to Reno, Nevada and find a brothel and loose my virginity once and for all. That scares me too, but at the same time it does sound rather fun to finally be able to touch a female would be AWESOME!!! I am scared of getting a disease or being overweight and not being "big enough" down south...??? And then not being able to last long enough??? Then how much would it cost? EEEK! As much as I would like to just fullfill my wildest fantisies, I would rather "do it" with someone I loved rather than just hire a hooker... It sure does sound fun though.

 

Then there is the problem of the fact that I still live at home with my widowed mother. I take care of her and maintain her house and two vehicles. I am NOT a mooch. I buy her grocieries, medicines. In fact she has not had to leave the house since March, because I do everything for her. But anyway, this would severly discourage any potential girl friend away for sure. Then if that isn't enough, the house is filled with taxidermy from allot of my hunts around the world. I have birds, big game, fish etc... So not only am I looking for a female partner, but a female partner who tollerates taxidermy from a guy who hunts and fishes... I have shot myself in the foot so many times I am walking on stumps.... I would give up hunting and fishing for the right lady, but not my taxidermy. I do eventually plan on building a house on my 20 acres of very private land in the middle of prime habitat for wildlife. I just can't afford to do it right now, unless I bought a cheap trailer home and put it up there.

[Luke Skywalker]

Since I have changed the subject... My sister thinks that I should go to Reno, Nevada and find a brothel and loose my virginity once and for all. That scares me too, but at the same time it does sound rather fun to finally be able to touch a female would be AWESOME!!! I am scared of getting a disease or being overweight and not being "big enough" down south...??? And then not being able to last long enough??? Then how much would it cost? EEEK! As much as I would like to just fullfill my wildest fantisies, I would rather "do it" with someone I loved rather than just hire a hooker... It sure does sound fun though.

 

I understand, I have very strong religious beliefs and parental influence that would be a barrier for me doing that (perceived as a protective barrier as you put it, since there are factors such as STD's, etc....).

 

However, to play the d-advocate, I would say that even if I contracted an STD, as long as it is not life-threatening, then I wouldn't see a big deal about it, since most people around have STD's of some form or another, and unless you find a virgin girl in North America, a future partner that has been around a few times will likely have them too. Realitically, the only way to avoid STD's is to marry a virgin girl that never had sex with anyone.

 

Now a man your age is unlikely to find someone like this in America, very unlikely, unless you could marry a 20 year old girl that may more likely be a virgin, but the age difference would be very great. So, if you are going to catch an STD anyway from a girl you love, a normal girl or from wherever, it's just likely that most people you encounter will have them already.

 

Furthermore, you will also feel uncomfortable with a partner that has lived her life so to speak with guys and has a flavour of what she wants and is seasoned, compared to you just coming out of the rock and starting from nowhere. Let's face it, most women within your age range have been around the bush.

 

Now in terms of waiting until finding a girl you love, the only concern is that you are hung-up on being a virgin and being inexperienced, and that there is no guarantee in life that you will find a girl you love, and if you do, there is no guarantee that she will love you back...but if it's really bothering you that you are a virgin and inexperienced then dont you think that may be sabataging your chances with normal girls? I mean you should talk to people off the bat and tell them these things if it is going to make you feel small around them.

 

I do not advocate going to any hooker thought myself, and have never been to one - I can masturbate if I'm really horney, and so far that has hit the spot for me.

[scotty77]

How are these potential girls going to know the OP is a virgin ? I am sure he isn't shouting from rooftops that he is a virgin.I don't see it being an issue as far as initial attraction and flirting.In my opinion it is likely the OP just isn't interacting with women enough socially which seems to be common these days as our North American culture is becoming more and more isolated.It's a mute point anyway,the sex isn't going to happen until one is comfortable sociallizing and interacting with women.Making an effort to become more social or improving one's social skillls or finding that environment that is conducive to that kind of interaction[not the bar scene]would be a much better idea than going to a hooker.What will paying for sex accomplish anyway?It won't help the OP any ,I certainly don't think it would do anything to improve the OP's self esteem.

[scotty77]

I think you are thinking in far too general terms.Many women might be turned off by some aspects of your lifestyle,but not all.You seem to be thinking too far down the road,you seem to be worried about what some girl that you are ALREADY DATING is going to think if she found out this or that about you.Perhaps your thinking should be more along the lines of should I ask so and so out for coffee.You aren't looking to impress the vast majority of women,you are only looking to find one woman that you can relate to.

[scotty77]

I don't know why you would think you would have to give up hunting,fishing or taxidermy in order to meet the right woman.Any woman who would expect you to give up those activities isn't the right woman for you in my opinion.

[Luke Skywalker]

How are these potential girls going to know the OP is a virgin ? I am sure he isn't shouting from rooftops that he is a virgin.

 

Because he is going to tell them, after all, the OP is an honest person, not like all those bad jerks and players out there that lie and manipulate women, so he is honest with them and tells them that he is inexperienced and virgin.

In fact it's probably one of the first things the OP will probably mention on his dates (am I right?). They are likely to sniff that he's not really an experienced ladies man anyway.

 

I don't see it being an issue as far as initial attraction and flirting.

 

But the OP is depressed, and the premise of depression is based on the fact he's inexperienced and a virgin, thereforeeee, indirectly if that is the cause of these symptomatic behaviours, then it goes back to the fact that his inexperience with girls or being a virgin is holding him back from even these points since the OP says that no girl wants to keep company with a depressed guy. (But I thought non-virgin guys can get depressed too? Are all non-virgin guys happy all the time? Something doesn't sound right about he OP's reasoning sometimes because it seems he's blaming everything on his virginity and lack of experience that's going wrong on the women department)

 

 

In my opinion it is likely the OP just isn't interacting with women enough socially which seems to be common these days as our North American culture is becoming more and more isolated.

 

What does social interaction with women have to do with sex? I interact with women too - I'm a Real-Estate agent - I have to interact with people, including women people.

 

It's a mute point anyway,the sex isn't going to happen until one is comfortable sociallizing and interacting with women.

 

No, sex isn't going to happen unless a woman is attracted to a guy enough to fall in love with him (i.e. see him as a potential boyfriend, lover, mate, husband) and then open up to him sexually. Unfortuntaly, if you are like the OP, then you have experienced a collective rejection of women who dont think you are even a man, let a lone a potential boyfriend, husband, or whatever. Sex doesn't happen period whether you are comfortable talking with women or not. It still boils down to women being attracted enough and respecting you as a man and seeing you as a potential boyfriend or husband, not another friend.

 

Making an effort to become more social or improving one's social skillls or finding that environment that is conducive to that kind of interaction[not the bar scene]would be a much better idea than going to a hooker.

 

How do you propose the OP make an effort at becoming more social or improving his social skills, or finding an environment that is conductive to that kind of interaction? How would you be sure the OP wont just get 'friends' rather than 'girlfriends', LTR, or wives?

 

What will paying for sex accomplish anyway?It won't help the OP any ,I certainly don't think it would do anything to improve the OP's self esteem.

 

Well for one, you have an experience of having sex, you see a naked woman, you could touch private parts to see how parts of the female anatomy feel like and you can experiment. I think you forgot that the OP is a virgin. At least someone is agreeing to let him experiment on them, even if they are accepting his money. Sometimes people dont want to deal with people and will even reject their money.

 

I did not recommend for anyone to go and pay for sex, but I may deal with arguments against it. In this case I dealt with STD risk paying for sex is similar to STD risks not paying for sex so STDs are not really that much of an excuse. So, if the OP cites STDs as a reason not to go, then it's not really that valid of a reason. If the OP cites moral or religious reasons not to go, then hey, don't go.

 

I have never gone myself to one, but the idea is not ruled out that at some point in my life I may entertain the idea of going and blame the collective rejection of every women that have crossed paths with me for it.

[scotty77]

We don't know that the OP has been collectively rejected by women,didn't he say that his severe anxiety is preventing him from approaching and asking women out.Is the OP approaching women and getting rejected again and again,that doesn't seem to be the case.I think social interaction has everything to do with sex.If the OP is sitting at home every Saturday night or has a job in which he can't interact with women how is he supposed to develop some form of attraction from a woman?

[scotty77]

If the OP can develop his social skills I guess there isn't a guarantee that he will find a woman interested but he will be able to take some comfort in the fact at least he tried.He can become more social by trying to recognize patterns that he is repeating and try to avoid them.I am trying to do it myself,I have literally forced myself to talk to women at work,when normally I wouldn't.I am trying to break specific introverted patterns.The OP could perhaps find a more conducive environment by switching jobs as just one example,working in an environment in which he has to interact with women.

[Luke Skywalker]

We don't know that the OP has been collectively rejected by women,didn't he say that his severe anxiety is preventing him from approaching and asking women out.

 

What about that girl that says she doesn't like him because he doesn't have confidence? Doesn't that represent a segment of the collective of women?

 

Is the OP approaching women and getting rejected again and again,that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

You dont need a number of rejections, you just need one or a few and make scientific extrapolations.

 

I think social interaction has everything to do with sex.If the OP is sitting at home every Saturday night or has a job in which he can't interact with women how is he supposed to develop some form of attraction from a woman?

 

By going on the internet.

[Luke Skywalker]

If the OP can develop his social skills I guess there isn't a guarantee that he will find a woman interested but he will be able to take some comfort in the fact at least he tried.

 

But I thought he has tried and has given examples.

 

He can become more social by trying to recognize patterns that he is repeating and try to avoid them.I am trying to do it myself,I have literally forced myself to talk to women at work,when normally I wouldn't.I am trying to break specific introverted patterns.The OP could perhaps find a more conducive environment by switching jobs as just one example,working in an environment in which he has to interact with women.

 

Ok, you are right, it feels good to be social with women or be comfortable around them and it's something that would make the OP feel better, it it wasn't for this isolationist NA society helping to mess things up for everyone.

[scotty77]

So one girl rejected him because he didn't have confidence and that means every woman is going to do that?You are going to make a scientific extrapolation on one or a few woman's opinion's??? I think even a man who you would consider to be a ''ladiesman'' likely gets rejected more times than he is scores.

[iamthenra]

The "Great debate"..... Thanks guys! It is rather entertaining reading your arguments.

 

I did meet that other gal from Green Bay, Wisconsin that wasn't very talkitive. In fact, I had to do most of the talking. She did find me entertaining, and by the time I was ready to leave, she wanted to continue "dating". But she was way too quiet for me, and she did say that she liked hunting and she even shot a whitetail doe. It's rather unfortunate that I was not attracted to her. If she had more of a personality, and was more talkitive then maybe it would have gone somewhere. Fortunately for me, the anxiety and all the nervous energy I was able to be way more talkitive than I usually am.

 

You know for me, meeting both of these ladies the one from Green Bay and the one from Florida was fairly easy. I was more relaxed about that then the idea of going to a bar and meeting people there. I think I was more relaxed because I had already communicated with these two ladies via e-mail and eventually over the phone. So I knew that they liked me enough to want to meet me, even with some of my shortcomings. I am honest like I have said earlier, but I have been trying not to spill my guts and tell everyone everything about me upfront. I figured I wouldn't say anything about me being a virgin, unless directly asked. I just won't volunteer that information. That isn't being a lier. I just want ladies to give me a chance before I tell them information that could potentially scare them off. I feel that I do have allot going for me, if it weren't for my present living situation with my mother and the taxidermy and such.... I read what most women want from a guy, and I do feel that I qualify. I just lack self esteem and confidence socially.