Example of how most men value looks over intelligence

[Taomagicdragon]

My two cents is you can be intelligent but not necessarily an intellectual, but you can't be an intellectual without being intelligent.

 

I have never meant anyone in my life who was an intellectual who didn't have a decent amount of intelligence.

 

I have met people who TRIED TO BE intellectual who was not intelligent at all, and it is a sad thing to see. ANd annoying. He tried to be someone he wasn't and made himself look foolish.

 

People should be who they are.

 

woot me and jaded agree on definitions!!! *e-five* CHeck my psot on the defintions and you'll see we said the same thing, hehe.

[JadedStar]

woot me and jaded agree on definitions!!! *e-five* CHeck my psot on the defintions and you'll see we said the same thing, hehe.

 

We have agreed on two things in this thread. LOL

 

efive back.

[Taomagicdragon]

Hehe, we have very similar opinions i've noticed, from various thread,s hehe.

[Gratsy]

This doesn't prove anything. You don't have proof that she was more physically attractive. Her having more men comment on her attractiveness than yours might have had to do with her having a friendly demeanor.

 

I don't take attraction personally. Everyone has their reasons for being attracted to you or not attracted to you. Sometimes they are just personal preferences...personally, I'm not interested in the average male so if a larger percentage of average males were attracted to some other girl over me, it wouldn't bother me. I am attracted to a certain, unique "type" of guy and I would want- really- only that type of guy attracted to me.

 

If this happened to me, I'd shrug and wish her the best. I know that some men do find me attractive as a whole package and the guys interested me are much closer to being what I want than the ones who aren't.

 

Anyhow, I think the real reason you haven't dated is in your post--you're too shy. You're gonna have to work around the shyness or overcome it in order to find a mate. Plus, you sound really busy. You simply might have not had the time to meet a mate. You shouldn't compare yourself to others. Just be happy beingyourself. Someone is bound to like you for who you are.

[CaptainPlanet]

I hope you all realise that our education system is so toned down atm that any idiot capable of writing their own name can pretty much go an get an arts (humanities that isn't even humanites) degree.

 

They're basically impossible to fail.

[IronHorse]

All very good post...

[Batya33]

I hope you all realise that our education system is so toned down atm that any idiot capable of writing their own name can pretty much go an get an arts (humanities that isn't even humanites) degree.

 

They're basically impossible to fail.

 

Maybe where you are from but not where I am from. And it certainly does not apply to me, anyone in my family, my boyfriend or any of our many friends or colleagues. And, since intelligence in on my list of criteria for a mate just having a degree is not enough so I am not presuming that just because someone has a degree, he is an intelligent person.

[Clarity]

I hope you all realise that our education system is so toned down atm that any idiot capable of writing their own name can pretty much go an get an arts (humanities that isn't even humanites) degree.

 

They're basically impossible to fail.

 

In some places, yes. Where I am this is true - that's why those degrees aren't worth very much. University is becoming the new high school is a saying that gets tossed around here a lot.

[Gratsy]

Its like what people have been saying. The same way beauty doesn't mean that you lack intellectual ability, the presense of intelligence doesn't indicate the lack of moral character.

[Gratsy]

I grew up in a house of mathematicians. Women who are into math are known for being the nerdiest of all, yet my mom (who is a university professor) was a cheerleader who had been chased by men. My father still talks about it.

 

Some people claim that lawyers in general are stupid people.

 

People are different. My Mom has never been able to understand me in some ways. I haven't exceeded her academically, nor do I care to. I went into liberal arts because art is what I love. I'm fairly attractive but I have a hard time finding a date.

 

If we are all looking at some measuring score to determine the worth of people... beauty, wealth, intelligence etc...we will always fail.

[Batya33]

I think it's far different to have criteria you look for in a lifetime mate with the goal of compatible interests and values as opposed than using criteria such as beauty or intelligence to measure "the worth" of people, which I do not support and never have.

[Gratsy]

I think that some good points have been made about education. I can understand a personal preference for educated mates. I think that people can be independent scholars, however. Currently, I just found out that my crush at 18 did not even graduate from the university he attended. He has always been unambitious, but as far as intelligence goes, he impresses me personally. Thats saying a lot because I haven't met too many people who do this.

 

I see your point about worth.

[Batya33]

Absolutely they can be independent scholars. I just prefer that someone who I would choose to get seriously involved with romantically value the accomplishment of at least a college degree, enough to have accomplished it. Since almost everyone I know and have known over the past 15-20 years in my general age group has a college degree my preference has not been an issue. It would be an issue if I strongly preferred to date men who had not gone to college because I have met few who haven't.

[DN]

Since almost everyone I know and have known over the past 15-20 years in my general age group has a college degree my preference has not been an issue. It would be an issue if I strongly preferred to date men who had not gone to college because I have met few who haven't.

"What do they know of England whom only England know?"

Rudyard Kipling.

[Cimmie]

You have to be able to discuss things you have in common. If you have been to college and your brains have been trained in similar ways, you will be more likely to share things. Life and relationships are hard enough without idealistically, out of misplaced class loyalty, or something else, marrying beneath your educational level.

 

I used to think differently about this, but I need a man who is smart, whether he has been formally educated to a high level or not. Looks are secondary for me. Brains, wit, kindness, these things matter.

 

But I firmly believe most men would choose looks over intelligence any day. I've accepted this long ago.

There are many fiercely intelligent women who are deeply angry about this. But ladies, we have to accept that that is how men are. Programmed to look for health youth and good looks in a mate.

 

We have to be able to value ourselves as human beings and not expect to be validated by a man finding us attractive. What kind of criterion is that to base self worth on anyway?

[Batya33]

"What do they know of England whom only England know?"

Rudyard Kipling.

 

I should add that I know of and know indirectly, many hundreds of people outside my age group, from different cities, countries, etc than me as well so my observations are informed by that knowledge too. I also am well read and all the rest.

 

But we're talking here - or at least I was only commenting on - choosing a mate - in that narrow example, I am not limited to "England" but my selection is informed by seeking common interests and values to the extent possible. It's realistic that when looking for a mate (when I was dating) that I would start in my own geographic area, a major city, among the people I know and their friends, acquaintances, colleagues.

 

It's one reason I stayed in a major city - to have a huge pool of people to meet (not just for dating - for everything) and network with in my general age group. If I had moved to a small town where, for example, many people did not go to college, perhaps I would have dated people who did not go to college. But I wouldn't have chosen to live in a small town as a single person - I only would have if required by a job I couldn't pass up or a family situation. I am not knocking small towns, I just know that they're not right for me right now where I am in my life and my career.

[Taomagicdragon]

But I firmly believe most men would choose looks over intelligence any day. I've accepted this long ago.

There are many fiercely intelligent women who are deeply angry about this. But ladies, we have to accept that that is how SOME men are. Programmed to look for health youth and good looks in a mate.

 

We have to be able to value ourselves as human beings and not expect to be validated by a man finding us attractive. What kind of criterion is that to base self worth on anyway?

 

Had to fix it by adding the word some, otherwise the generality would offend me (as I value intelligence and caring, and humour as well as being healthy over looks anyday of the week). To me, though, good-looking means a girl who looks healthy, I don't place emphasis on acne, or other things that have little to do with actual health. My views of what;s good looking are odd in that many times they fall in line with what;s generally good looking, and other times the opposite. I value health and vitality with intelligence and empathy over "hottness".

[violingirl]

You have to be able to discuss things you have in common. If you have been to college and your brains have been trained in similar ways, you will be more likely to share things. Life and relationships are hard enough without idealistically, out of misplaced class loyalty, or something else, marrying beneath your educational level.

 

I used to think differently about this, but I need a man who is smart, whether he has been formally educated to a high level or not. Looks are secondary for me. Brains, wit, kindness, these things matter.

 

But I firmly believe most men would choose looks over intelligence any day. I've accepted this long ago.

 

I agree, Cimmie. I also want a man who is smart like me who is able to discuss things in common and topics like politics, books, movies, etc. intelligently.

 

One of the reasons I feel this way is because I have witnessed first-hand how differences in intelligence and lack of things in common adversely affect my parents' marriage (they are still together, but it's not a good marriage). My father, now retired, has a high school degree and worked a blue-collar job (nothing wrong with that) all of his life, but passed up every opportunity for advancement or further education related to his job. My mother, also retired, was very ambitious, working by day and going to school at night to earn her undergraduate degree, and became a bank manager. My father forced her to give up her career after I was born. She was the one who took care of me, while my father has always been very emotionally absent and didn't lift a finger to help raise me.

 

My parents have absolutely nothing in common. Their conversations are painful to listen to. My father, who I think is really a commitmentphobe who decided to get married because it was the thing to do (and my mom and I have often suspected that he may have Asperger's syndrome, too), can't carry a conversation to save his life, yet he likes to talk, talk, talk and talk some more - about nothing really or about the past. I have never had a real, substantive conversation with him about anything relevant - careers, life goals, politics, etc. It's impossible. If either my mom or I bring up something up that he doesn't want to respond to, he'll just change the subject without responding to the original question.

 

On the other hand, my mom and I talk every day and almost every day she talks about how it's impossible to have any kind of real conversation with my father and how he doesn't listen to her. He doesn't listen. She calls me all of the time because she literally has no one to talk to - even though she and my father are together 24/7.

 

I don't ever want to end up in that type of marriage.

 

Cimmie, I also definitely agree that most men choose looks over intelligence any day. I've seen it happen way too many times. Unfortunately, that little nugget of truth doesn't work in my favor at all.

[Cimmie]

More men lack empathy than women. They score higher on the autism scale by 2:1. Unfortunately there are plenty of women like your mother (especially in previous generations) who found themselves shackled to unempathetic, immature and selfish men. That's how it was.

 

I believe that women have to start realizing that men are not the answer to their problems. They are often the sole cause of them. But we are so brainwashed by Hollywood and trash media and tradition that that's what we have come to believe. It takes getting let down badly once or twice, or getting raped or assaulted, to realize how things *actually* work between men and women.

 

I say: leave them to the pneumatic twenty-somethings, and welcome. They'll learn, in their time.

[violingirl]

More men lack empathy than women. They score higher on the autism scale by 2:1. Unfortunately there are plenty of women like your mother (especially in previous generations) who found themselves shackled to unempathetic, immature and selfish men. That's how it was.

 

I believe that women have to start realizing that men are not the answer to their problems. They are often the sole cause of them. But we are so brainwashed by Hollywood and trash media and tradition that that's what we have come to believe. It takes getting let down badly once or twice, or getting raped or assaulted, to realize how things *actually* work between men and women.

 

I say: leave them to the pneumatic twenty-somethings, and welcome. They'll learn, in their time.

 

During my relationship with my ex, he seemed to have a lot of empathy. He was very caring, understanding, was there for me, affectionate, respectful, listened to me, etc. However, the breakup revealed a whole different side to him: cold, uncaring, lying, betrayal, cheating, abandonment, refusal to take responsibility for his actions, etc. That was what was so shocking to me. How could the pre-breakup ex and post-breakup ex be the same person? Sadly, they are, and it's been impossible for me to reconcile in my head and my heart.

 

I do want to be with a man. I want the companionship, the love, the sex, the (emotional) support and sounding board, the partnership, the connection. I also want to have two children one day, but I don't want to run out of time or be too old when I have them. Sadly, I'm not sure if that will ever happen - I haven't even been able to find a relationship for 2 years and 8 months. I've been alone and independent for so long, for most of my adult life; I can take care of myself, but I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

[Cimmie]

I've given up on it.

 

But I hope you find someone good, violingirl.

[Batya33]

I don't think a woman who has been raped needs to generalize about all men - when she is ready to do so, she needs to do whatever it takes to heal if at all possible and hopefully to regain trust in people. I have been assaulted, not raped, and from that I learned to be more careful about being alone with men I didn't know well. Maybe my experiences are unusual but for the most part the men in my life have enhanced my life- and in that group I include boyfriends, friends, mentors, colleagues, acquaintances - have treated me with respect and have brought so much to my life as people and to a certain extent as "men" because of the unique perspective on certain issues.

 

Some men rejected me because of my looks and I rejected some men because of their looks. I am sure some men rejected me because of my "smarts" or my career but that is only speculation. The men who were intimidated by me typically were those who were so insecure that we wouldn't have made a good match even if I was not educated or a "career woman" (a phrase I don't understand since we don't call men "career men").

[violingirl]

I've given up on it.

 

But I hope you find someone good, violingirl.

 

I hope that one day you change your mind about giving up on it and find someone good, too. You deserve it. At the same time, however, I completely understand how you feel, because, based on my experiences in the past couple of years, I am on the verge of completely giving up on it on a daily basis.

[Cimmie]

It can be a question of whether your male role models have been positive or negative ones. I have a very vexed relationship with my father, for instance, who has personality issues. I never knew my grandfathers (both died before I was born). Some of my uncles are alcoholics. The only man I allowed myself to get close to betrayed and assaulted me.

 

Of course, one shouldn't generalize, and I recognize the intellectual fallacy of doing so, but on an emotional level it makes perfect sense to distrust men.

 

I wrestle with my beliefs about the opposite sex. I fully recognize they may be based on bad experiences. But the facts speak for themselves, and the facts are about violent crime, sexual crime, genocide and so on. So is generalization actually such a fallacy or so very irrational? But I take a dim view of humanity generally I suppose.

 

I also know of very few happy marriages. I can count them on one hand. And infidelity is so very common.

[violingirl]

I also wrestle with my views about men. Although I have never been abused or assaulted, I have had only once close relationship with a man (my ex) in my entire life.

 

As I wrote above, I do not have a very good relationship with my father, because he has always been so emotionally absent and withdrawn. We are complete opposites in everything. Likewise, my parents' relationship is NOT a prime example of what a good marriage should be like. I have no siblings, no uncles (none that I have ever met, because they are overseas), my grandparents are dead and I barely met them anyway. Before my ex, I only had a few short-term relationships.

 

When my ex and I were together, we had a solid relationship (or so I thought) until he left me. However, during our relationship, he was afraid that we would eventually and inevitably end up like his parents (divorced; his mother left his father for another man and married him, because his father was extremely emotionally withdrawn) or my parents (miserably married; my father reminded my ex of his own father in a bad way). I know that this thought was reinforced when my ex met my parents for the first time about 2 1/2 months before he broke up with me - he emotionally withdrew from me immediately after the trip and (as I much later found out) cheated on me with an ex-girlfriend five days later and then emotionally cheated on me with another ex-girlfriend and left me for her. Sometimes I wish that we had never taken that trip to meet my parents, but, in all likelihood, things probably would have turned out the same anyway. While I believed that we had the choice and strength to stay together and not end up like our parents, he just gave up and gave in to his commitment fears. I still get sad thinking about it. I know that I've had great difficulty getting over my ex, because he was the only man I've ever been close to and I loved him very much.