Mystery, the Master Pick-Up Artist

[servedcold]

"Fake it til you make it" means that if you have no confidence in a situation, and this applies to lots of activities besides pulling, one of the best ways to get some is by adopting a confident air. This is nothing new, certainly not to Mystery. Machiavelli and Sun Tzu are two more historical proponents.

 

Many of the PUA tactics are applicable to successful LTRs. Appearance and grooming, including posture, dress, style, etc. come into play every day of a "real" relationship. Conversation and flirting skills come into play every day of a "real" relationship. Confidence and general social comfort come into play every day of a "real" relationship... most of all... LISTENING and empathy skills, the hallmark of the pickup arts, are two of the more important things, if not the most important things in any relationship.

 

With respect to the tenor of posts on the pickup artist boards, what percentage of these are actual paying students and what percentage are 12 year olds high on Mountain Dew and poptarts? If I were 12, and the folks had porn blockers on the family computer, the next site I'd likely go to would be a PUA site. Witness the popular movie Superbad. Just a thought that assessing a community of people with a common interest by who posts on internet boards may be a mistake. The real students aren't frequently posting on those boards, they are out pulling in the clubs.

[CaptainPlanet]

Its pretty farking crazy that a man can make money off of telling other men how to meet girls. Really tells you there must be something seriously missing out there. If people are really that desperate that they are listening to this guy doesn't that tell you something ? I don't think this applies to Victoria though lol, aren't we in the middle of a baby boom out here ?

[tylercdurden2004]

I was polite, I was composed I asked how she was and what she does. I introduced myself you know what she says ? she calls me boring ! straight of the bat just like that. You're boring. Another woman said to me " why don't you go and dance with some of the older women".

 

I'm thinking to myself what the hell, you're older than me. I am 23 not 35 I knew she was 25 because she was a high school friend of a friend of mine. I don't really see where you can go around imposing standards into this charade of good intentions because none of it is good, It is a selfish demanding proposition, thats all. We all want the best mate we can get somehow somewhere it seems women have been reminded of this too much, while some men, not enough.

 

 

So why do you care if they were rude. The way I see it is you are giving the women an opportunity to meet and interact with a respectful, polite young man. If they are rude then that is there loss. Right?

 

But you need to blow through this stuff and forget about them being rude. You are right though many women complain about getting hit on. This I find totally amazing. Who cares if you get hit on. If a guy is rude or overly aggressive to a woman then she shoudl tell him to get lost. But I see that some women are intent on making it an issue. Like its such a burden to have random guys talk to them.

 

Heck random people talk to me. Even when I dont want to talk to them. Should I be rude?

[servedcold]

Its pretty farking crazy that a man can make money off of telling other men how to meet girls.

 

Ever hear of Cyrano de Bergerac, or the Song of Songs in the Bible? Also, half of Kierkegaard's "Either/Or" is entitled "The Seducer's Diary." The internet is what's new, seduction advice is as old as a snake and an apple.

[CaptainPlanet]

Okay, no obviously I haven't. Point taken.

[servedcold]

Okay, no obviously I haven't. Point taken.

 

Ya, Eve was the first PUA, and Satan was the first "Mystery," at least in Western tradition... steep tuition for Eve that seduction course was...

[CaptainPlanet]

So why do you care if they were rude. The way I see it is you are giving the women an opportunity to meet and interact with a respectful, polite young man. If they are rude then that is there loss. Right?

 

But you need to blow through this stuff and forget about them being rude. You are right though many women complain about getting hit on. This I find totally amazing. Who cares if you get hit on. If a guy is rude or overly aggressive to a woman then she shoudl tell him to get lost. But I see that some women are intent on making it an issue. Like its such a burden to have random guys talk to them.

 

Heck random people talk to me. Even when I dont want to talk to them. Should I be rude?

 

You are right I should not care that they are rude. I'm more concerned about the impact it has on my confidence. I don't like to admit that it does because it means i am weak.

[tylercdurden2004]

You are right I should not care that they are rude. I'm more concerned about the impact it has on my confidence. I don't like to admit that it does because it means i am weak.

 

Sure a lot of feel this way. Myself included. But the point is to ask these questions of yourself.

 

So she was rude and rejected you. What does that say about you?

 

In the irrational mind it says:

 

• I am no good.
  
• I made a mistake and mistakes are bad.
  
• She doesnt like me as a person.
  
• Others wont like me as a person.
  
• I am stupid weak, feeble for feeling upset she was rude.

The rational mind say:

 

• In this particular case, in this instance she did not like me. Maybe there was something I did that she didnt like in this instance. Maybe she was having a bad day. Maybe she is not a nice person that I would like to get to know.
  
• Maybe I made a "mistake" maybe I didnt. Maybe no matter what I could have done she woudl have still reacted the same way. What can I learn. Mistakes are a learning opportunity and a chance for me to grow.
  
• She doenst know me so how is it possible for this to be a reflection of who I am? Its not possible. Its only a relfection of what she saw based on her feeling, experiences of me in a small insignificant moment in time.
  
• She is not the same person as other. Everyone is an idividual. There is no logical reason to believe other feel the same way as her. Its impossible for other to feel "entirely" as she does. This means its possible others would have reacted differently.
  
• Her reactions are her reactions I am not responsible for her reactions or feelings. I cannot and will not take on board her feeling and reactions as that would assume I understand and know how she feels.

From there you start to work out these small moments in time (5 minutes out of 24 hrs) are really insignificant and dont really matter.

[shyguy1]

Hell this sums up almost my entire thought process in the irrational column

 

You explained, what I've been trying to explain for years.

[galaxy71]

Its pretty farking crazy that a man can make money off of telling other men how to meet girls. Really tells you there must be something seriously missing out there. If people are really that desperate that they are listening to this guy doesn't that tell you something ? I don't think this applies to Victoria though lol, aren't we in the middle of a baby boom out here ?

 

It tells me that there is a lot of demand but not enough of a supply for training on social skills. There is no high school class on flirting and dating like there is for home economics or driver's education. People are expected to develop the social skills for flirting and relationships on their own during their late teens and twenties. If you fall behind, you are freakin screwed big time.

 

People who are behind in their social skills lose a lot of confidence pretty quickly when they get rejected by potential lovers and potential friends. This loss of confidence can easily result in someone deciding to withdraw from more social interactions. It's a vicious cycle, really. Poor social skills leads to a loss of confidence. A loss of confidence leads to poorer social skills as the love-shy male decides to close up for fear of getting hurt. These guys end up becoming hopeless. They end up coming up with excuses for all the advice offered to them because they think that the advice will not work for them no matter how hard they try.

 

Guys who are lucky enough to realize what their problem is are going to demand that they get help. Since the government and the school system does not provide formal training on dating and social skills, the private sector(i.e. PUA companies) fill that void by providing training and material for a large price. Since the airing of the Pickup Artist, TMM raised their bootcamp prices from around $2200(American dollars) to $2900. Mystery's company raised their prices from around $2100 to $2500.

[tylercdurden2004]

It tells me that there is a lot of demand but not enough of a supply for training on social skills. There is no high school class on flirting and dating like there is for home economics or driver's education. People are expected to develop the social skills for flirting and relationships on their own during their late teens and twenties.

 

You're right and its unfortunate. Add to that the fact that many boys (and girls) grow up with out good role models especially on the male side to show them how healthy relationships should form. Plus the culture of blame that exists towards men you have a recipe of many men out there who dont have a clue what is the "right thing" to do.

 

And what is the "right thing" to do: make yourself and eventually the woman you love happy. Even if that means flirting with them to attract them so they can find out how great some of these guys really are.

[CaptainPlanet]

See when you put things that way it makes a lot more sense. For whatever reason it was I didn't socialize in highschool, for a large part I would talk to no one. So I guess you could say I am a good 4 or 5 years behind. That makes a sense.

[Dating Coach]

Thanks for the help in making points in defending methods such as Mystery to help the struggling man in the dating world. To me it seems that some of the nicest most empathetic men out there struggle majorly in the dating world. Something like the Mystery Method isn't going to turn these guys into players, it's going to help them succeed in finding a life-mate, increase their confidence, social skills, etc. It could help them in many parts of their life. I will never hate that.

 

I think a lot of people are intimidated by the label "Pick Up Artist" and try to find some way of discrediting it morally. They will attack things like "fake stories" in order to justify the stance of this being wrong. Is it a front? Yes it is. Is it harmful? No. Women put up all kinds of fronts as well. Dressing in sexy clothing, make up to accentuate their features, heels to make them appear taller, etc. All of this is not a representation of "themselvs" it's merely a manner to make themselves appear more appealing. That's all these stories are.

But what is the real meaning behind these stories? It's to help these guys learn how to show off their "value". It is not something they will always have to do. Eventually when they learn enough and grow confortable enough with social interaction with women, they won't need to use stories to portray Self Value. But when they have ZIP and they have no experience with women, in order to improve they may have to fake it a bit. Big deal. It's not harmful. People do this all of the time.

 

In fact, just look at the majority of the guys friendzoned. THEY are faking it as well. They are faking "just friends" to get closer to a girl, however this faking it is a complete dead end and a detriment to themselves. Where are all the moral stances against the "friend guy"?

 

The fact is, PUA's are intimidating. No one likes to know that someone has mastered skills that would possibly attract you... but that's not a rational fear. The biggest guys to fear are the player types and those guys aren't learning PUA. I'd bet an extremely small amount are. Most guys learning PUA are guys who need it, guys who fail. These guys are the nice guys. Let them learn to enhance their self confidence, their social skills, and their self value. They deserve it.

[tylercdurden2004]

The biggest guys to fear are the player types and those guys aren't learning PUA.

 

Especially the "Nice Guys" who all of a sudden turn your world upside down when you find out their "friendship" had ulterior motives. Could you look back and really trust anything they said was in your best interest? Or theirs?

[Clarity]

Sorry to go offtopic a bit, but through this discussion, I've started to wonder what the female equivalent to PUA would be, or if society has even necessitated the evolution of such a role.

 

What is the "fake it until you make it" female?

[tylercdurden2004]

Sorry to go offtopic a bit, but through this discussion, I've started to wonder what the female equivalent to PUA would be, or if society has even necessitated the evolution of such a role.

 

What is the "fake it until you make it" female?

 

i think wearing makeup, high heels etc might constitute that.

 

The difference is women are not "required" to make the first move. Very few do and even those that do do it rarely. For men they have the "responsibility" to approach a woman first and open their mouth first and face rejection.

[servedcold]

Sorry to go offtopic a bit, but through this discussion, I've started to wonder what the female equivalent to PUA would be, or if society has even necessitated the evolution of such a role.

 

What is the "fake it until you make it" female?

 

Well, the term "cougar" is currently fashionable for a sexually aggressive woman who isn't interested in a relationship, don't know how much of that term is media hype (so much is these days).

 

Not sure if the "fake it til you make it" applies to women as much. Women aren't as burdened with the necessity of approaching and impressing men in order to meet the opposite sex. Even moderately attractive women get hit on out in the bars/clubs. As diggity recently posted, there is plenty of fakery involved in making oneself a more attractive woman, and most of it doesn't really involve social skills. A gorgeous woman who lives in a cardboard box and has an IQ of 80 will still get lots of male attention, the male equivalent won't fare as well.

[shes2smart]

Well, the term "cougar" is currently fashionable for a sexually aggressive woman who isn't interested in a relationship, don't know how much of that term is media hype (so much is these days).

 

Actually, "cougar" is applied to a 40+ year old woman going after younger men.

 

link removed

 

Don't know what the fashionable term for an under-40 sexually aggressive female is, though....probably something that will trigger the site's profanity censor.

[BlueWolf]

What a debate. I'll be an A-hole and steal your thread:

 

 

 

Judge for yourself.

[Dating Coach]

Did anyone see The Pick Up Artist show today? If not, try to catch it this week, it's the week where they are taught about kino and kissing. Also, one of the guys wins a challenge and gets to go hit on girls with Mystery coaching him through a ear microphone. It's impressive.

[BlueWolf]

Just watched the highlights on VH1.

[Perry Rose]

Wester, in answer to your questions in your first post....

 

Mature, smart women do not go for guys like this 6'5" fart in a bottle who dresses like it's time to go trick or treating in the trailer-park neighborhood.

 

Using junior high school terms like "kiss close," and "sets," and acting like a juvenile, like a little boy out in the playground teasing the girls doesn't work out there in the real, mature world.

 

Yes, this asswhistle has good social skills, but it's with the immature girls who frequent loud clubs.

 

It is literally like a scene out of the days when we wre just kids, acting the fool, and teasing the girls.

 

That doesn't make one "the world's greatest pick up artist," like he has portrayed himself as in the beginnning.

 

In fact, that doesn't make any guy good.

 

You have to separate the little, immature girls from the smart, mature women.

 

And let's not forget the ones who are attention whores, and the ones who have low self esteem, either.

 

Take these so-called "pick up artists" out to a quite bookstore and let's see how these nuthuggers do.

 

And that's the bottom line, right there.

 

Think about it.

[CaptainPlanet]

What if you don't like books.

[Perry Rose]

lol smartass.

[wester]

His clothes were the thing that confused me the most. Even if its peacocking, I could see some women being scared by the way he dresses. But the ultimate test for him is not the bookstore, its a rush-hour train at 8:00 am. That'll prove or disprove his game. I have never seen, in all my years of commuting, someone try to pick up a woman on a train going to work. No surprise either. Everyone on the train is pissed about having to go to work, or tired from too lttle sleep. If his "negs" work on women in that environment, then I think he deserves some credit.