Mystery, the Master Pick-Up Artist

[Dating Coach]

I've noticed a lot of people stuck on the label "Pick Up Artist". If the name is turning you off then there's no point in actually getting into a discussion about the actual content because it will be a closed argument. A closed argument is where a person has made up there mind about something and no new insight or knowledge is going to change because it will exist outside what they've already concluded in their mind. It's a closed system, no more outside influences.

 

You won't find too many people whom are more against "players" than myself. I think using people and hurting them to get what you want is dispicable in nearly any case. (Although if you return the favor to a compuslive user... that would be an exception in my mind!

 

Likewise, anyone who developes their social skills to the point where they can present themselves as very desirable to the opposite sex only to turn around and use that advantage for unsavory purposes is a complete waste of a person IMO. If there are PUA's out there who do this, then they are scum. Even so, that doesn't mean their social skills are bad... just their intentions. You could have the exact same skills and use them only to help others or to assist you on finding a life-partner. I see most of these guys who struggle on these forums as good guys struggling to find their life-partner and I wouldn't be fearful that any of these guys upon developing the right social skills to use it in an unsavory fashion. I do think though that they would use these skills for the right purposes. thereforeeee I do support the skill itself.

[Dating Coach]

The thought has crossed my mind, but I'm bad at learning to speak other languages, lol. But I have read interviews with American guys whose jobs have relocated them to say, the Far East. These guys say that the women there are just easier to talk to and get along with than than their American counterparts. And its not like a "You, come here, obey me" kind of thing. The women there are just generally friendlier and more open than the women in western countries. And its not just about sex. Dating and forming relationships, these men say, is easier with women in Asia. That makes me think that women and their attitudes may be the real problem alot of the time.

 

You could always do that. The guy who sits behind me went to China and brought back a wife. I personally am not a big supporter of that route because usually the problems that prevent a lot of guys from finding a partner are problems that will still be there when bringing back a spouse. It will still effect their life, their choices, and even their relationship... even if to a lesser extent. I personally prefer dealing with those issues and eliminating them.

[Clarity]

I think this is a common misconception. Plenty of guys have found success through what Mystery teaches, and have met their life-partner.

 

Do you know Mystery, or the hordes of people he teaches personally?! Or is this just an assumption? I mean "plenty" is a pretty subjective word.

 

As I said, it's main goal is to increase a guys skill in a social situation-and particularly with women. What you use that skill for is up to the person learning it. And far more often than not, the guy learning this skill is seeking a life-partner and not just a "ONS".

 

You see it here on these forums. How many guys do you see on here whom are struggling with women starting threads going... "I've never had a girlfriend! How do I attract women so I can sleep with as many as possible?" I've not seen it.

 

Clearly, you haven't visited Mystery's own forum at link removed. It's all about getting laid as many times as possible. I've several times seen the phrase, nearly word for word, that if you haven't got an "f-close" (yes, they have immature terms to go along with their immature world) within 36-48 hours, you are not a true PUA. This is almost part of their "credo".

 

Of course you won't see a similar sentiment on this site. In general, it has an older demographic, who is past all of that stuff, and a little more mature.

 

What I have seen are plenty of clueless guys wanting to learn how to attract women so they can find their life-partner.

 

Sure, and I think Mystery's "method" can help you attract women, but many times you'll build a relationship on a house of cards.

 

The second thing I disagree with is teaching guys not to be themselves. I disagree. SHYNESS is not who a person is. Shyness is something that prevents a person from being themselves. A shy person isn't shy around their parents are they? Yet they are shy around new people. With their parents they feel comfortable in being themselves, but around new people they aren't. Learning this stuff doesn't make you a new person, it just helps guide a person into overcoming those social barriers that have been hindering them for so long. It's just a skill they lack.

 

If Mystery's "method" was all about just overcoming shyness, I'd agree with you, but it's not. It's telling fake stories, it's about putting the girl down just enough, it's about treating the girl like a conquest, rather than a human being.

 

Again, if you disagree with me, I urge you to visit the forum dedicated to the mystery method, and tell me that I'm lying.

[Clarity]

I'd rather be a fan of someone's helpful skill than be a hater of it.

 

Fan or hater are not the only two options.

 

One can merely see it for what it is.

 

I think it's an interesting social experiment at times, perhaps a nice tool for a guy lacking confidence to get laid, but I think it's a poor method to employ if looking for a sound, long-term relationship.

[afrodite79]

Those guys aren't the only ones sounding bitter... Mystery may be "taking advantage" of desperate and clueless guys, but he is offering service in return. If these guys are getting something positive out of it then it's not so much taking advantage, it's using your skill to make a living. If he's cheating peopel that's one thing, but he is not.

 

If you think that I'm bitter just because i don't agree then that's on you. If you love this guy's system then that's fine. I don't agree with it. I stand by what I feel about it. I really feel that going by some of these methods isn't genuine. I'm cool with a guy learning to find confidence in himself but systems like this just don't sit well with me. I've had guys "neg" me before and it just didn't work. It just made me think they were losers. I'd probably tell those guys to get some sort of therapy to work on their shyness. This seems like some sort of quick and easy temporary solution that won't hold up if other issues in a guy are present. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people but there are always exceptions. I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[Carl5000]

Afrodite, i agree with you. In a way, all life is a game of impressing other people so its up in the air for me. I prefer meeting women in natural settings and by chance, although there is nothing wrong ur good player methods.

 

Its common sense really.. most of it is confidence and being a good listener, using eye contact. You don't need some guy teaching you ) I think its finding the right medium between trying too hard and seeming not that interested... that's the skill.

 

Sure anyone can follow this buffoon(although i haven't seen the show haha) and put up a masquerade, but how long can you keep it up. Until the real you comees out? you could act all cool, confident and how long before you want to just be the habitual 'YOU'

 

I've played the player game for a laugh on a few occasions with GREAT success and have got around 3-4 numbers, or invites back to a girls place, numbers in one night with some effort. Yet, deep down i freaking hated it. I felt like i was just in a role and acting to the best of my ability. Bull * * * *ing them and it did feel wrong. But that is just me..

 

Like i read some player book one time - talk about stating the obvious. Get a clean car, a high status job, make sure you have good teeth.. living with ur parents is a no, no. I was like 'wow' why have i bought this book, its totally cack.

 

All these r good for one night stands, short term flings.. terrible for relationships in my book or if you want to become a ROBOT with no personal creativity.

[Always Hopeful]

I'm not sure if I am pro-Mystery or anti-Mystery, but I do have some general observations about him from what I have seen on TV (have not been to his website and didn't even know he had one).

 

First off, I am not a fan of the show. In this, I am not making a judgment call on Mystery. It's just that, being a "reality show" on a music television channel, it reeks of exploitation. I mean haven't we seen enough of the "nerdy guy" doing good stories? The fact is that much of the show seems to focus on the nerdy guys and how hopeless they are, and we are there as observers for what purpose? To laugh at these people? I mean is this show meant to be educational or merely a 21st Century version of schaudenfreude (sorry, not sure on the spelling)? Ha Ha, I'm not like them! They need help talking to women! HA HA! Do you know what I mean? At the end of the day, I felt sorry for these guys. There's nothing wrong with them....we shouldn't feel bad for them....we shouldn't be even watching their struggles. Talking to women....hell...talking to people you don't know, that you've just met, is a hard thing to do for 99.99% of the people on this Earth? So are we laughing because we believe we're not like them? Why? Because they "look" nerdy? Because they are shy? I just don't like the concept.

 

OK, so now on to Mystery himself. Meeting people has as much to do with environment as it does social skills. Put Mystery in a corporate setting, an investment banking company, consulting firm, law firm....and Mystery is hopelessly out of his element. His get up, they way he looks and presents himself is not conducive to social networking in a button-down environment. That's just not what happens in this situation. Am I saying his confidence will not work? No, of course not. Confidence is always a good social tool. But for him to walk around in an office with goggles on and black eyeliner is not going to work.

 

Where Mystery does shine and where he can bring to bear all his social skills is the "nightclub" or bar scene. In this environment the peacocking, the opening lines, all this can actually work. You have to hand it to the guy, his confidence is what wins over women. Look, at the end of the day, what we are talking about is confidence, right? Wearing what you want to wear to get noticed, knowing how to start off a conversation and sustain it, making people chase you instead of vice versa.....all this has their basis in confidence. If Mystery is all about teaching confidence....then all the power to him.

 

Let me bring it back to the show. At the end of the day, if he was really providing a service, this wouldn't be an elimination show. It would have been him providing advice to EVERYONE until they had enough confidence to be able to talk to a women they were attracted to. But that's not what this show is about....I mean right? So let's call a spade a spade.

 

For me, at the end of the day, I go to bars and nightclubs with my friends. I'm there to have a good time with these friends. We have each other's backs. We drink and be merry. I meet a lot of people through these connections, and my circle grows. From these experiences, I gain confidence in who I am and what I am about. But I don't go to a bar or nightclub for the sole purpose of "hitting on a girl." That's almost like work. Forget it. I've also been leery of trying to find a soulmate or even a relationship mate at a bar (and a random person at that). You know what I mean?

 

If Mystery really wants to help people, it would be nice if he could bring his social skills to bear in an environment other than a nightclub or bar. This is where his expertise could really be useful. But my guess is that his "system" is geared really for that kind of environment.

 

And oh, just use your own name for heavens sake. Mystery, J-Dog, Matador????? It just reeks of insincerity. If his advice is be yourself....then they should look in the mirror.

[metaldog71]

There's something going on with mystery most people aren't seeing, & it comes down to the way that women think & how women put men into categories (they do this even if subconsciously, men do it too).

 

Women, in the first few seconds of meeting you will be analysing you, each has a unique way of doing that though there are some commonalities, one is the "lover or provider" distinction, & what Mystery concentrates on is appealing to that "lover" identity, his "method" is looking for a fast way into a girls knickers & little else, he's not trying to build a deep respect just a sexual attraction.

 

So if guys are hoping to just get laid then Mystery's "method" is probably perfect, but if they are looking to meet a life partner they are starting off on the wrong foot.

[Dating Coach]

Do you know Mystery, or the hordes of people he teaches personally?! Or is this just an assumption? I mean "plenty" is a pretty subjective word.

 

No I do not know Mystery. I do know some guys whom have been socially inept take on this information and end up increasing their success. There are also plenty of testimonials. You don't make 100's of thousands of dollars and gain a positive reputation for knowing what you are talking about with a high failure rate.

 

 

Clearly, you haven't visited Mystery's own forum. It's all about getting laid as many times as possible.

 

Not completely true. It depends upon what they are looking for.

 

Of course you won't see a similar sentiment on this site. In general, it has an older demographic, who is past all of that stuff, and a little more mature.

 

It doesn't have to be immature. Sure, if some person wants to use these growing skills for bad, yeah, that's immature. But there is nothing immature about learning how best to introduce yourself to a group of women or people without turning them off. There is nothing immature about learning that in order to be more attractive you need to show that you have value. These are things that help not only with women but with guys and life period.

 

Sure, and I think Mystery's "method" can help you attract women, but many times you'll build a relationship on a house of cards.

 

That all depends. A friend of my brothers was a geeky guy that got it bad from women anytime he tried to talk to them, all because he was clueless. He wasn't mean, rude, nor was he out to "get laid". He just wanted a girlfriend. Yet he was so clueless with social interaction that he would creep out women and get burned bad.

He went out and learned the Mystery Method and practiced and learned it over a period of 4 months straight before he finally began to see success and a huge turn around in the responses he got. Now he is comfortably in a relationship with a girl he met out, one he probably would have creeped out if he didn't work on learning and improving.

 

If Mystery's "method" was all about just overcoming shyness, I'd agree with you, but it's not. It's telling fake stories, it's about putting the girl down just enough, it's about treating the girl like a conquest, rather than a human being.

 

The stories are for the newbies whom are too uncomfortable with their own life. When their skills get better then they won't need them. And I don't recall anything about putting a girl down. Are you referring to "neg hits"? A neg hit isn't insulting a girl, it's a way of disqualifying yourself from being willing to date her... which establishes higher value. For instance, if you are a martial artist and one of the girls you introduce yourself to is a nurse, you could say something like, "I've always admired someone who get's into the medical field but I could never go out with a nurse... it's kind of the opposite of what I do as a profession martial artists so it wouldn't work." and you could say that in a light hearted way, and then carry on the conversation with one of the other members in the group. This is a neg hit. It's a compliment but one where you disqualify yourself as a potential partner. It shows that you have value and standards as well as the fact that she hasn't "won you" yet. With a beautiful woman whom always has guys trying to talk to her, she usually has already won most guys attention. Being a guy whom she didn't win over yet is more interesting... especially when the very thing that disqualified him from liking her is something he admires. She'll likely try to win his attention back, and thats a situation she often isn't in as the attractive woman.

 

Again, if you disagree with me, I urge you to visit the forum dedicated to the mystery method, and tell me that I'm lying.

 

I'm not telling you that you are lying. You definitely could use your improved social skills to have ONS, and a lot of women actually enjoy ONS's. I personally don't advocate it unless both parties are willing. I'm more of a relationship type of guy myself. That doesn't mean that I don't understand the whole marketing perpective of it. "Learn to be able to attract beautiful women and ultimately have sex" is a much more powerful marketing tool to lonely guys than "Learn how to find a relationship". I am not saying I agree with it, but I understand the logic of choosing that approach to marketing. It will sell more.

 

But I won't (even if I disagree with the morality of the marketing) dismiss the effectiveness of using this Method to increase your social skills and increase your success. Ultimately, the only thing Mystery Method is, is a tool. It is a tool to arm yourself with in order to increase your knowledge and ability to reach your goal with women. IMO most guys who need help are more interested in the relationship aspect rather than scoring ONS's. IMO I believe this is arming more relationship oriented guys that need help than it is some jerk. After all, usually the jerk guys are the ones having more success, so why would they need this info anyway?

 

I am not saying I agree with everything, but what I am saying is that it is tried and true information that will help a guy whom is willing to learn. Sink or float. I want nice guys to have the tools they need to float.

[Dating Coach]

Fan or hater are not the only two options.

 

One can merely see it for what it is.

 

I think it's an interesting social experiment at times, perhaps a nice tool for a guy lacking confidence to get laid, but I think it's a poor method to employ if looking for a sound, long-term relationship.

 

I don't see how? It allows you more options as it makes it easier for shy and socially inept guys to meet more and more women. What they choose to do with that knowledge is up to them. If they want to meet the woman of their dreams than this skill can only help.

[Dating Coach]

If you think that I'm bitter just because i don't agree then that's on you. If you love this guy's system then that's fine.

 

I've never used it. I never had to. But I do know people who have, and it worked fine for them. I even watched them do it, and I never saw them betraying who they are inside, and in fact, I saw them be able to be themselves around women for the first time ever after working with Mystery.

 

I've had guys "neg" me before and it just didn't work. It just made me think they were losers.

 

Example?

 

I'd probably tell those guys to get some sort of therapy to work on their shyness.

 

Nice, kick em while they are down. Very friendly.

[Dating Coach]

Afrodite, i agree with you. In a way, all life is a game of impressing other people so its up in the air for me. I prefer meeting women in natural settings and by chance, although there is nothing wrong ur good player methods.

 

Its common sense really.. most of it is confidence and being a good listener, using eye contact. You don't need some guy teaching you ) I think its finding the right medium between trying too hard and seeming not that interested... that's the skill.

 

Sure anyone can follow this buffoon(although i haven't seen the show haha) and put up a masquerade, but how long can you keep it up. Until the real you comees out? you could act all cool, confident and how long before you want to just be the habitual 'YOU'

 

I'd say you don't really know what this is then, because it doesn't tell guys to be something other than they are. It actually allows guys to finally be themselves around women. Look at the show. These guys are still in the learning faze, at the very beginning, but some of these are actually being able for the first time in their life sit down and talk to a group of strange women, something they never could do before.

 

If you want me to hate on that, sorry I won't. I love watching these great guys finally be able to talk to an attractive woman.

[Dating Coach]

I'm not sure if I am pro-Mystery or anti-Mystery, but I do have some general observations about him from what I have seen on TV (have not been to his website and didn't even know he had one)....

 

Better social skills will work anywhere, not just in a bar.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

this guy is taking people with low self esteem and basically hyping them up and exciting them for nothing

 

OMG OMG HES GOING TOO TEACH ME A GAMBIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i can do the same thing, why dont i get a tv show

 

buttabean's slap em inn'a shape

 

premiring this fall on VH1 @ 8pm

[galaxy71]

Some guys do need a lot of help with their social skills and confidence. What may seem "common sense" to you, might seem pretty difficult for a lot of guys. There are a lot of guys who are generic and dull around women they are attracted to. Instead of making women laugh and smile, some guys ask the same boring questions of "How are you" and "Where are you from". While these guys are boring women with their interview questions, other guys are giving women a good, fun time through banter and entertaining stories. Some guys just do not know how to flirt with women. There's still a common belief that guys should get into relationships through luck and patience rather than persistance and self-improvment.

 

One of the nice guys on the show "The Pick Up Artist" named Scott was nerdy and had poor body posture before he got a makeover. After the makeover, he looked like a regular, cool guy with his new clothes. This isn't common sense. I know plenty of guys who have this serious, cold, uptight look on their face when they are talking with women.

 

Approaching a group of beautiful women after they have been hit on by a lot of guys is very, very difficult. Not only do you have to win over the woman you like, but you have to win over her friends so that her friends don't block you out. To add to that, it's hard to keep the attention of a woman in a nightclub since she has the music, dancing, and alcohol to entertain her. Most guys would get blown off pretty quickly if they try to approach an attractive woman in a nightclub who is getting tired of being hit on by a bunch of generic, nice guys that night.

 

I am all for anything that motivates guys into improving themselves and approaching women. Besides, there are plenty of guys who adopt the PUAs teachings of self-improvment and personal accountability while rejecting the PUA lifestyle of one-night stands and flings.

[Alexander DeLarge]

I couldn't be bothered to read through all the pages, but I got as far as page 4. I watched about him and I'd never heard of him before tonight. As far as I'm concerned all the relationships he has seem to be built around telling the girl what she wants to hear and getting towards sexual encounters. If that's all you are interested in then good for you. Personally I'd like something a little more meaningful though.

 

 

Also, it seems to be LEAST OF ALL about being yourself. These people go in dressing completely different and putting on this persona in order to win girls. You can fake it but what happens when you get this girl home and she sees that you are really some boring nerd or whatever your problem is. Seems to me that improving your own life and having people notice is better than trying to pass off a grape as an apple. (you like that analogy don't you?)

[servedcold]

Eh, I think there is a need for a "fake it til you make it" attitude to some extent when building confidence where there is none to begin with, so mildly disagree with other posters that the PUAs are teaching deception. We guys generally pursue creatures who, for the most part, apply paint to their faces every day (among other female courtship displays), so complaints about deception by men in the initial courtship phases ring a bit hollow. If someone sets out to abuse and manipulate, they likely will find some way to accomplish their goal, pickup techniques or no. The pickup artist teachers may be encouraging some pre-existing monsters, but are likely not creating any.

[Unmotivated]

Since the man isn't here to speak for himself, here is a quote that seemed relevant to the topic, from his Mystery Method DVD.

 

"Firstly, I do not view myself as a pick-up artist. I think that the pick-up arts enriches our lives, it doesn't define it. And, I have a strong identity, one that I project, one that I convey when I am in field, and that is of an illusionist. That does not mean that you are each going to have to create an identity of an illusionist... In other words, the Mystery Method without Mystery is still a great method."

 

- Mystery

[tylercdurden2004]

Logic:

 

Does it work?

 

Did it harm anyone?

[BManMcFly]

The psychological reasons fro peacocking is that the guy that makes himself stand out the most is saying that 'I can survive even with this handicap' which is attractive on some level.

 

It's not about grooming per se, even tho I'm sure that's part... it's like wearing goofy sunglasses, or a shirt that will draw comments. Yes, it is a cry for attention, and yes, it generally involves a level of self-confidence.

 

Yes, in that sense, human women are one of the exceptions because 'peacock' type behavior is generally seen in the wild as what the males do to attract females. Where the females typically are of more bland colors, but yes this works both ways.

[Weeblie]

I love that this thread is basically just a bunch of guys negging Mystery.

Seems to me that people are intimidated by him. Perhaps a little frightened at the fact that just being yourself, isn't really enough?

[tylercdurden2004]

I love that this thread is basically just a bunch of guys negging Mystery.

Seems to me that people are intimidated by him. Perhaps a little frightened at the fact that just being yourself, isn't really enough?

 

Yeah and not many arguments are focussed on the issue which is the technique. The closest I have seen seem to indicate the men in the courses and the target women are somehow victims.

 

Most of the arguments are that he is a freak for the way he dresses etc I am sure if it was about some guy in the suicide forum wanting to kill himself no one would be dissing his style.

[Clarity]

Actually, most of the "arguments" are that his techniques might be good for picking up girls with the idea of a short-term ONS in mind, but are poor for initiating something that will lead to a longer-term relationship. This because of the use of deception and the lack of respect for the female that this system fosters (mirrored by Mystery's own community at link removed).

 

I have no problem acknowledging it for what it is; a good system for socially-inept guys to try and help them pickup girls, get laid, etc.

 

And for those who say that being yourself "isn't enough", maybe so for some people, but maybe those people should work on themselves, instead of taking the "fake it till you make it" approach. Their self-esteem issues are not going to magically disappear after some ONS's.

[tylercdurden2004]

Actually, most of the "arguments" are that his techniques might be good for picking up girls with the idea of a short-term ONS in mind, but are poor for initiating something that will lead to a longer-term relationship.

 

I think the guy and gal have a choice whether they will elevate the intial encounter to a One Night Stand. The guys could just as easily leave with a phone number to set up a date later on.

 

This because of the use of deception and the lack of respect for the female that this system fosters (mirrored by Mystery's own community at link removed).

 

The system or any system for that matter doesnt foster disrepsect. People themselves foster disrespect. People always have a choice in their behaviours. From the little I have seen of his video clips I see nothing that indicates or constitutes disrespect. Unless approach women is disrespectful in itself. Hence my first post on here:

 

Does it work?

 

Did it harm anyone?

 

I have no problem acknowledging it for what it is; a good system for socially-inept guys to try and help them pickup girls, get laid, etc.

 

I believe thats what the system is advertised as. I dont think its advertised as how to maintain a sucessful long term marriage. That would be the scope of other peoples work. However short-term or long-term having the confidence to deal with people is the most important thing.

 

Before you even get into a long-term relationship you need to be able to get into a "short-term" one. Every relationship starts off exactly the same. As an initial meeting then on to the next stage. Each relationship passes through the "short-term" but that definition is broad and can be interpretted and defined differently by different people. Some people might think 8 months is short-term other may think its long-term.

 

But you cant get into the "long-term" with out meeting someone.

 

And for those who say that being yourself "isn't enough", maybe so for some people, but maybe those people should work on themselves, instead of taking the "fake it till you make it" approach. Their self-esteem issues are not going to magically disappear after some ONS's.

 

I agree "faking it until you make it" is not enough. But social interaction is a lot about perception and what people percieve. Sometimes this has nothing to do with reality.

 

The point with "faking it until you make it" in these instances is having the body language and demeanor that "shows" confidence. Then seeing how people react to you vis-a-vis how a person normally acts. The honus is up to the individual to do the work that makes them or gives them the opportunity to gain confidence.

 

Most guys issues with being able to find and attract the right women for them is based on fear. Unfounded fear at that. Once guys in this situation see that talking to women and asking them for numbers or what ever it is that the guy wants is not always going to produce a negative reaction (rejection) they can then start to logically process the fact that it isnt always going to produce a negative reaction. That eventually they can process the fact that they can go out and get what they want. That in itself creates an opportunity to gain confidence.

 

Being yourself is often a cop-out for not making the changes to go out and get what you want in life. Thats a problem. For me what ever works works. As long as it works and it doesnt harm anyone.

 

If you're interested in the long-term stuff No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover is an excellent book on learning behaviours that will help someone achieve in the long-term.

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't understand why SOME women have a problem with this. I don't understand how they could have the slightest clue what it is like to be a shy naturally unattractive man trying to find a partner in a big city.

 

You might get hit on by men all the time and be searching for specia luvy duvy someone ! congratz to you. Don't forget the glass slipper will ya ?

 

But the harsh reality for average men, men like me it is damn hard out there. Some women are rude as all hell and half the time won't pay you the time of day its seen as some sort of untowards demand that we might want to get to know you or god, heavens forbid want to date you ! no, it is seen as intrusive and rude to have a go at a girl and fail. Why ? because some women get hit on numerous times in one night by the same dreary boring men.

 

Friday night I was at bar, you know a social place where people go to meet ? So i started talking to the nearest girl standing by herself. I was polite, I was composed I asked how she was and what she does. I introduced myself you know what she says ? she calls me boring ! straight of the bat just like that. You're boring. Another woman said to me " why don't you go and dance with some of the older women". I'm thinking to myself what the hell, you're older than me. I am 23 not 35 I knew she was 25 because she was a high school friend of a friend of mine. I don't really see where you can go around imposing standards into this charade of good intentions because none of it is good, It is a selfish demanding proposition, thats all. We all want the best mate we can get somehow somewhere it seems women have been reminded of this too much, while some men, not enough.

 

You need to be selfish and cruel. You need to be able to get what you want anyway you can, because no one is going to give it to you. If it requires "pick up artist" techniques then all the more power to ya. I don't think women should comment on what is and what is not morally acceptable for a man to do in the mating game. Try walking in the shy not good looking or outgoing mans shoes before you put on the moral integrity, long term is pure short term is bad cascade.