Celestial Fire

Granted, Hope75, I'm depressed right now and am not in top form. But I'm more than ready to date. I've suffered from chronic depression my whole life, and it didn't impair my 11-year marriage or from being in other relationships. It was invariably the other person's issues which ended everything. I function very well even with depression -- most people don't know I suffer from it. So, yes, I've thought about whether I'm ready, given my circumstances. I am. I thought that maybe my sister's nagging might pay off if I at least tried it out. musicguy -- I agree. Being single sucks. It's no fun going through life -- good times AND bad -- alone. Yes, you become very self-sufficient, stable and strong, but what does all of that mean if you are alone on a desert island? You can become the most wonderful person in the world being alone, but if you have no one to express yourself to it's like the old saying about if a tree falls in the forest with no one to hear it, does it make a sound? laboheme -- It would seem that being true to yourself only works in the movies. It's a nice idea, but it doesn't go over real big in real life. You must conform to the norm in order to reap the rewards of society. I can't, and wouldn't if I could. I guess we just have to stand strong, huh?

My sister has been nagging me to use eHarmony because it's been 2.5 years since I had a broken engagement (his decision) and I haven't dated or met anyone since. Even before that, I've had a sketchy relationship history. I've been divorced for 10 years, will be 46 in a couple of weeks and have spent most of those 10 years alone or in super-brief relationships. I've gotten to the point where I want to give up. I'm suffering from depression, just got diagnosed and put on meds. I've lost two jobs this year (layoffs) and although once again employed, it's work that I hate. I live in an urban area and commute and I hate it all. So it's not like there's anything else in my life making me happy at this point! So, I took the eHarmony test this morning. It seemed rigged to me, to begin with. You're told to answer truthfully, but you can see that if you do, you may be construed as some kind of "weirdo." It's all very skewed to the mainstream, average person. Obviously, if you answer the questions the right way (even though they assure you there is no wrong or right), you're in like a greased weasel. You just have to make sure that you make out that you're extroverted, fun-loving, have lots of friends, participate in lots of activities, are always happy and never get angry! I'm sure I could retake the test, tell them what they want to hear and be allowed to join. Should I? Seems pointless if I'm only going to be matched to other people who are either lying like myself or have a fairly uncomplicated personality which is easy to match. If they let in enough oddballs, wouldn't they be able to match oddball to oddball instead of telling you in so many words that you're an aberration? I realize that in the grand scheme of things, this probably means nothing. But on top of everything I'm dealing with, and the fact that I'm chronically single, this feels as though I'm being told that there is something terribly wrong with you and there is no on in the world who would want to be with you because we at eHarmony know a weirdo when we see one. I can't help but feel like s**t.

n83, I feel precisely the same way. I have no energy and no desire left to pursue anything with a man. In the last 7 years, I've had 4 major failed relationships and at least a dozen false starts -- in which a man professed all-consuming interest in me, and then inexplicably disappeared without explanation. Often to show up again, like a bad penny, and attempt to "rekindle" a flame that hadn't even been lit to begin with. Ugh. Like you, I can't even contemplate putting up with the exhausting baggage that is dragged into your life and unpacked bit by sordid bit: ex-wives, ex-girlfriends, "troubled" children, money problems, unresolved childhood issues, inability to commit to anything or anyone, and the old standby -- absolute refusal to let go of or get over hurts inflicted on him by another woman and making me the convenient dumping ground for his anger, bitterness, and distrust. A couple of months in, and the law of diminishing returns sets in. Every minute of happiness is followed by five minutes of misery. It's like I'm pushing quarters into a slot machine as fast as I can, but my return is pennies to the dollar. When the whole thing is finally, mercifully over, I'm emotionally and psychologically exhausted and even less inclined to start over again with someone else. When I was a teenager, I remember older women telling me not to waste my time dating, and to avoid marriage completely. They seemed bitter and tired, and I felt sorry for them that they'd obviously had unusually bad luck with men (or were emotional weaklings) and had allowed a bad experience to warp their outlook. Now I have some sense of why they felt that way... I'm sure there are lots of men who feel the same way about women. I think the bottom line is that there just aren't enough whole men/women to go around. Me, I don't know how long I'll feel this way. Maybe for good. I want a happy life, and if that means a single life, then so be it. I've been alone for so long, even within relationships, that nothing about it frightens me anymore. Much of my solitude was forced on me by the men I was dating (my life revolved around their schedules, and when they had time for me, I could have some attention), but as hard as its been, it's made me strong enough that I no longer need anyone in my life. And if a man is going to be more trouble than he's worth, I no longer want anyone in my life.

Bighair...what can I say? That I know how you feel is the understatement of the century. I've had this sort of "ambivalent" BS slogged at me for the last 4 or 5 years of fruitless "dating." I'm sorry that you're experiencing the same weird, inexplicable phenomena -- something like the Bermuda Triangle, in which men who profess their undying interest in you are suddenly sucked into a vortex of infinite space, never being heard from again (after, however, having emotionally vampirized you) -- but I'm relieved that it's not just me. And I'm sorry that you've gotten the old saw about "he just wasn't into you." What?! If you go out on a date with a man, and he's pleasant enough, but shows no great interest, doesn't kiss you good night and doesn't ask you out again (and doesn't return calls which you make to him) -- he just wasn't into you. If a woman kicks and moans about clear signs of disinterest, and misinterprets them, then she deserves the phrase "he just wasn't into you." I know when men aren't interested in me, and have no problem with a man not feeling that I'm a potential romantic companion -- it's a free country and he's free to like, dislike, or be indifferent to me, as he will. But when a man: answers your ad (or approaches you), asks you out, touches you, kisses you, tells you how wonderful you are, makes future plans with you, introduces you to his family, asks you to be exclusive, asks you to marry him, asks you to go out to look at engagement rings, then ducks out on you with no explanation (except a phone call saying he can't handle a relationship?!) or warning -- was he just not into you?! That's the exteme case which is my own personal experience. But all the others I've dated besides him all pull the same stunt, just at varying levels of attachment. I've been led the same merry chase, and I can say that (because I'm a rather shy and reserved person), these men have had to come on VERY strong and very determinedly to get me into the net. But once I'm in, no matter how long it takes, I'm bounced out ASAP. I used to take it very personally -- what's wrong with me? Why do men leave me? What did I do wrong? And, like you, I believed that love and companionship was "just not meant for me." Now I realize, sadly, that it's nothing to do with me and everything to do with men who have no business initiating anything with anyone. They're usually emotionally damaged or emotionally vacant people who latch onto others in order to distract themselves from -- what? -- I dunno -- their own unresolved BS (their father abandoned them, their mother neglected them, their elementary school teacher humiliated them, whatever) which they aren't willing to work on. Instead, they use emotionally available people to satisfy their on-again, off-again desire for quick fixes of what they believe is "intimacy." This means brief bouts of intense emotional exchanges after which time, once they are satisfied, you're studiously ignored. Whether that's a one-night stand (precipitated by weeks or months of impassioned emails and phone calls) or an actual "relationship" all depends on the vagaries of their own agenda. And once you're given your walking papers, don't assume that it's over. These types have a tendency to wander back into your life with some elaborate excuses and emotional overtures to get you back on what you rightly described as a "roller coaster." Mixed signals doesn't even begin to describe what these people send out! Their signals are far from mixed: they show strong, active, consistent interest in you, which is why you end up involved with them in the first place. I used to think that these men went on to find a woman they could really love, someone who had something to offer them that I didn't have. But they resurface in my life with such comic regularity (even though I make no reply to emails or phone calls) that I've come to realize that they will never find "the one." Mostly because, whether they realize it or not, they don't want to. I'm sorry, Bighair! I wish I could give you some mojo to repel these people, but all I can offer is my strategy of taking anything anyone says with a dump truck full of salt and waiting it out to see what their actions reveal. And even that doesn't always sort the wheat from the chaff, as I've sadly discovered! Ultimately, it's a crap shoot until you come accross someone who is for real. But you will. Don't have any doubts, despite all the date cancellers in the world!

Regardless of whether Bighair wanted to see this man again, and regardless of his emotional stability (or lack thereof), he did something which has been done to me ad nauseum and which I find aggravating in the extreme: He told her before the first date was over that he wanted to see her again. That she wasn't keen on this is a moot point. She could just as easily have been pleasantly surprised by his display of emotional vulnerability (play along with me here), have enjoyed the evening very much and was happy at the thought that he wanted to see her again. Then - BAM - the sneaking out the back door with the note about "no spark." Why indicate you want to see the person again, then unceremoniously unload them with an email? If he had suddenly realized he's not ready to date again (which he blatantly isn't), he could have at least called her and explained that instead of blaming it on the fact that she didn't "spark" him. If there was no spark, why did he want to see her again? I can't tell you how many times a date has asked repeatedly to see me again before the first date is over, even to the extent of setting the date, time and place for the second one...only to disappear, email some lame excuse or literally stand me up (yes, I've been left sitting somewhere conspicuously dressed to the nines and looking stupid). What is wrong with people -- men AND women -- who impulsively commit themselves further than they're able to go and then disappear down some chute to never-never land? There must be a way for those who have worked through their issues and come out sane and responsible to discourage those who are still wallowing from approaching them, and can only damage anyone they come into contact with depending on the length of time they stay around. I'm not unsympathetic with people who have had a hard time, are struggling with divorce or heartbreak -- but for god's sakes, they should get themselves together before they enter another person's life.

Thanks, Goldfish! It's good to know that I'm not the only one having these weird problems. It's so frustrating when you don't know what the hell is going on and you blame yourself. I'm an attractive woman, and friends tell me they don't understand why men aren't lining up at my door. But at this point, I feel ugly and lonely and hopeless. All I see are other women in stable, long-term relationships or marriage and I'm still out here with no one to share anything with. It's been YEARS now, and I'm losing hope that I'll ever find a man who's serious about me. Honestly? I'm losing hope I'll ever even get a second date! And sex? What's THAT? Can't remember. As for flying to London...we discussed it and I chose to go to London since I've wanted to go there since I was a kid. There was no way I was going to miss an opportunity like that! Aside from the disappointment, it was wonderful and I had the time of my life. Like you said, my friends tell me these guys just aren't man enough...and I think you're right about the online thing. I read that 2/3 of the people doing online dating are introverts (me included). I think the essential problem is that with those odds, I'm getting introverted men who can't cope with anything more than phone calls, email and fantasy. You'd think they'd be more sensitive and thoughtful -- and they are, to some extent. But they apparently can't handle real women and real life situations interacting with them. They will protect their comfort zone and their own feelings at the cost of another's. When it comes down to it, the only man who's hung in there (even though I'm the one who ended the relationship) was an extrovert! He's been there for me as a friend for years, and he, too, can't understand why these men are passing on me. He's not compatible with me because he's such an extrovert, but I'm more and more willing to settle for someone who doesn't disappear on me!

Thanks to everyone who responded. While it may be true that a week isn't that long, it seems like quite a stretch coming from a man who used to call 2 - 3 times per week. My feeling is, that if he were interested, that frequency wouldn't diminish. Maintain, or even increase, yeah. But diminish? He ain't interested. Or, like many of you suggested, he's married. Ain't calling him, and I deleted his phone number from my caller ID and his address from my email. Done. I guess I'm just fed up with 5 years of being dragged down the primrose path, so to speak. I seem to attract men who come on strong, and, despite my level-headed approach of trying to keep the brakes on them and giving them a chance to think, eventually wear me down or hook me emotionally, and I succumb. The minute I do -- BAM. I'm mercilessly cut loose. This included a man who exerted great pressure for me to be exclusive and then become engaged to him. It was even his idea to look for my ring. But when I capitulated, and visited the jeweller's with him, I got dumped! My trip to London was another fisaco of just the same kind. I'm a sucker for Englishmen, but even so, I resisted this guy's moony transatlantic phone calls about how he was "in love" with my words and my voice for quite some time. Even when he invited me to visit him for "a couple of months" I was still pretty cool about it and agreed to one week. After 3 days during which he behaved like a walking corpse, he suddenly loosened up and we had a great time and a fabulous night together. Next day? Song and dance about how he hadn't been in a relationship (or had sex) for 5 years, was afraid he wasn't any good at romantic relationships and only wanted to be friends! I thought maybe he could have figured that out before I flew 3,000 miles, but what do I know? Well...what the hell. I got a free trip to London out of the whole thing, plus I didn't spend a penny on hotels or food because I stayed with this guy who was so damned in love with me ... as long as the Atlantic ocean was between us. I even asked him if he chose to get involved with an American because she'd be far enough away to make a relationship essentially impossible and he said, "Maybe." Hah! Sad part is that I really got to like him while I was with him and it was a major disappointment which I've been getting over since I came back. And there's one more ... another guy who indicated interest, then, wisely, reneged because he's just gotten out of an abusive and messy relationship. He actually apologized for answering my ad when he wasn't ready! I thought that was very mature and sensible. He went away. Came back and asked if we could be friends. I agreed, because I genuinely like him and enjoy his company. We met and had an absolute blast for 8 hours -- strictly friendly. Another moment of truth: he asked if he "should" kiss me good night. I thought, wait a minute! You told me you wanted to be friends because you're not ready for a relationship and now you want to kiss me?! Talk about mixed signals. I declined the kiss to keep things on the straight and narrow that he indicated he wanted. He sent an email the next day saying he had found me very attractive and wanted to kiss me, but when I refused it was for the best since he wasn't ready for a relationship, blah, blah, blah. Which I thought we had already gone over! Have I heard from him again? One email in 2 weeks, saying he's been sick. No phone calls, even though we used to talk a couple times a week when we were friends. I'm getting the impression that he's offended or feeling rejected because I wouldn't kiss him! Like I want to kiss him, perhaps become interested in him, and then inevitably be dumped because he's not ready for a relationship! I'm not stupid enough to crawl into that trick bag again. I guess if I lose his friendship because I'm trying to protect both of us, then so be it. Maybe I'm stupid for willing to give things a try, no matter how far-fetched they may seem (like the London thing). But you never know where you may find the right fit with someone. Or a good friendship, which is just as important in its own way. It shouldn't be this complicated and frustrating, but somehow, it always is.

Here's the situation: I had a date one week ago with a man who answered my personal ad in April. It started off great (doesn't it always?): thoughtful, entertaining emails progressing to great conversations by phone. He kept telling me how attractive he found my photo, and how much he enjoyed talking with me. He was very interested in meeting me, but we both had plans for the summer and he asked that we keep in touch until I returned from a trip to London (that's another story!) in July. He promptly disappeared weeks before my trip, and he didn't keep in touch as he said he would. I didn't hear from him for two months and was pretty much resigned to the fact that, once again, I had been rudely cut loose by a man who had expressed great interest in me. Story of my life for the past 5 years, so I've gotten pretty used to it. Then, suddenly, he turns up again, telling me that he's had open-heart surgery to correct a genetic defect and that's why he hadn't been in touch. Would someone make up something like this? Hard to tell. He seemed very apologetic and kept assuring me that his problem was genetic and that he wasn't suffering from heart disease. I guess to reassure me he wouldn't keel over during sex. He told me that he was glad that I answered his email and that he hoped I wasn't angry and that we could continue to get to know each other. Anyway, we resumed emailing and phoning and he finally set a date to meet. Dinner after work, at a restaurant of my choice. I found a decent place and we met. He shook my hand, then suddenly hugged me and told me that my photo didn't do me justice, and that I was lovely. We had a nice evening and he was incredibly polite and thoughtful about everything, and again expressed great interest in me. He's an ex-Army colonel and a West Point grad -- maybe that partially explains his chivalrous behavior -- opening doors, helping with my coat, asking me to order whatever I liked. At the end of the evening, he insisted on walking me back to my car even though I had parked a distance away. The moment of truth came as he opened my car door for me. He asked "Would it be alright with you if I kiss you good night?" I said yes, and he kissed and hugged me. He said, "I'll call you," and I got in my car and drove away. I had only been home for 5 minutes when he called. He told me he was making sure I had gotten home alright, and that he'd had a lovely time, and that he'd be in touch. I had had a nice time, too, and was hopeful that now we had met maybe we would see what would happen. Sounds good, huh? Except that it's now been a week and I haven't heard a word from him. I realize that when a guy says, "I'll call you," that usually means he's not interested. But why kiss a woman good night if you're not interested? Why tell her how lovely she is? Why not just say, "It's been nice meeting you," and leave it at that? I think there are ways to make it obvious that you're not interested without muddling it all up with good night kisses and making noises about calling her! Of course I've thought maybe something has happened to him. Maybe he dropped dead somewhere. Who knows? Maybe his heart surgery was botched. I've also thought that maybe he was waiting for me to call him first. He told me that the only way he could have met me was over the internet because I was the kind of woman he wouldn't have the courage to approach in every day life. Maybe he's insecure and needs me to make some kind of overture. Maybe he's simply not interested and, despite his impeccable table manners, doesn't have the simple courtesy to just plain tell me so and let me get on with my life without wondering what the hell went wrong. Maybe he's gone on to better prospects who invite him home and jump into bed with him winthin hours of first setting eyes on him. I'm tempted to email him to find out...but that's not my usual method of operation. My feeling is, he said he would call me. If he doesn't call, he's obviously not all that interested (or dead, as I said before). Either way, it's all over, right? I've never been the type to cajole, manipulate or maneuver a man into dating me, although that seems to be what it takes with way too many of these guys. What's so difficult about finding a man who simply wants to be with a woman without all of this angst?! I can't see myself calling or emailing any man who goes out with me and doesn't call for a week. I think silence is the best option -- at least I don't make a fool of myself and he can think that I just don't care. Which is better than him knowing that my feelings are hurt that he couldn't at least tell me he's not bloody interested. This guy is only one of three men in the last 6 months who have done the approach-avoidance thing and frankly, I'm sick of it. I think I'll start looking in some windswept, dismal country where there are more men than women and sell myself off to a man who's so desperate for a warm body to cuddle up next to that he makes a beeline right for me instead of this come-here-go-away stuff. I'm not demanding that a man fall crazy mad in love with me at first sight, but don't I at least deserve some respect and some straight talk about whether he's even interested in another date?!