thusspakez

okay, so here's my story. i was married for a long while. that's ended more or less amicably after a long decline. about the time it ended--this summer--i got involved in a very intense, short passionate relationship with the wrong person. it ended badly, not least because i'm a bit out of practice in pacing my emotional unfolding, and resulted in a heartbreak (mine). i'm feeling reasonably recovered by now, though still a little shakey. a few months ago i met a woman that i was interested in immediately but decided not to pursue it; the time just wasn't right, and i wasn't ready. we had a few nice informal conversations here and there, but i've never made any overtures. the other night i ran into her by surprise--she stopped me on the street (i hadn't seen her) and we had a really nice brief conversation. some things clicked, i think, and she made it clear that she'd like to go out. she said she was free on fridays. i told her i couldn't this friday but maybe the next one. i got her number and called her a couple of days later to ask her out. my first friday had opened, but hers had closed, so we agreed to go out the next friday. the thing is, i'm really interested--probably more than i should be at this point, owing to my recent heartbreak and being alone for the first time in years. i'd like to call or email her and ask her to lunch or something before next friday. but i'm wondering. should i just be patient and call her early next week about friday? leave it at that and be cool. would it seem desperate, or would it likely be taken as a welcome sign of genuine interest, to try and set up something beforehand?

i've recently gone through a very similar set of circumstances. read my first post on this website for the full story, and you will find that indeed you are not alone. hard as it may be, let go and move on. don't beat yourself up, but learn from the experience. be glad you're human and alive and able to experience a full spectrum of strong emotions, the good, the bad, and the ugly. you'll be okay, but it will take some time.

i've gone through something kind of related recently--breaking off with a beautiful lover who was not treating me all that well, but keeping me around, i think, as a sort of safety net until something better came along. like you, i broke it off, because i felt it was only going to get worse for me. i still miss her terribly sometimes, but about 90% of the time i know it was the right thing to do for me. it's that other 10% you've got to watch out for. i deserved better and so do you. be strong and think of what will really be best for you over the long run. maybe you can be friends later, but as with my situation, it sounds that for you, friendship is not really an option for either one of you right now. you'll want more, she'll want less: a recipe for disaster. painful though it may be, a little hardship now is better than a lot, for longer, later on.

rainz, many thanks for your thoughtful reply. i was touched that you took the time and care to offer it, and it helped. it's been about six weeks since the breakup, about a month since our last contact. and just this past week or so, after reaching a low point last weekend, i've started to feel better--starting to feel like my old self again, beginning to have fun and feeling genuinely hopeful again. yoga, meditation, long bike rides, and lots of conversations with friends have helped immensely. trying to learn from but ultimately leave behind the past, and live in the moment, has been key. it's been really hard work but the poison, thankfully, is leaving my system. i can breath and laugh again and that's so great. there's still a kind of dull pain much of the time, but it's dulled considerably from what it was and i can actually feel it passing, however slowly. i know there will continue to be good days and bad ones, but i also know that the balance will continue to tilt in my favor. i still miss her and really want to contact her, or rather, have her contact me, but i've kept to my end of the nc, and think i will continue to do so until it doesn't really matter to me anymore. honestly, i don't yet think my motives are pure enough, or my resolve strong enough for it to work the way i want it to should i contact her. you're right rainz: i need to make my own resolution of this and have to accept that i'll never get it from her. that is hard to accept, but it's workable. no contact is hard, really hard, but it is a source of strength--at its worst, perhaps, the semi-spiteful feeling that she doesn't know what i'm doing or thinking either (and nc allows me to imagine that she might care to know, whether she does or not); at its best, the feeling that i had the sense and strength of character to make the right decision and stick to it. peace to all the broken-hearted of past, present, and future. you will endure.

some advice please. a little over a month ago, i experienced what was probably the worst breakup of my life. for the full story you can see the first post i put on enotalone.com. i'm doing better now, but initially, the break up left me with nothing but negative feelings about her, myself, and our time together. it's been almost a month of nc and i could keep on going, but i'm wondering... i just hated the messy, ugly, inconclusive way things ended. in short: for various reasons it began to occur to me that this was an unhealthy relationship; i didn't want to break it off but felt i had to before it got worse; she didn't want to separate; when we did she immediately slept with someone (two people at once actually) and told me all about it in tormenting detail, all the while saying how she hoped we could get back together or at least be friends; meanwhile she began to treat me increasingly carelessly while i found out about various deceptions and concealments that she'd directed at me. i know i was right to leave. i don't think i can be friends with her, at least not close friends and not now--owing to the lack of trust among other things--but i would like to smooth out the break up if i can. for myself, not for her. i was thinking of writing a nice little non-accusatory note saying hey, it didn't work out, but no hard feelings, i hope you're doing well, vaya con dios. something like that, as long as i can control my feelings and still be honest too. i'd like to write without ulterior motives (placing blame, trying to get back together). i simply want to move on without the harshness, the bitterness that still clouds the whole affair for me. i feel like this would give me some closure, make me feel better about myself and how i've been handling things, reharmonize some of my tainted memories, and remove some of the anger, hurt and lack of resolution i'm still feeling. i don't expect anything from her. any thoughts on this? is it still too soon? or does this just sound like an exercise in futility (or worse) whenever it happens?

it easier for women to get laid in our culture than it is for men because that's the way our culture is constructed. (men are taught to spread their seed widely; women are taught to protect their nest--something like.) women can always find men to sleep with them at the drop of a hat; men have to work at it a little, or a lot, harder. but it's no easier for women to find sex with an emotional connection than it is for men. the woman i recently split with was in bed with someone (actually 2 someones, at once) within 12 hours of our break up. it took me about a week, both to be ready to go for it, and to find someone who i wanted to be with and who wanted to be with me. but be aware: while sleeping with someone may be a good temporary distraction, and may make you feel sexual and desireable again (especially if you're feeling kind of emasculated by the breakup), it's also likely to feel pretty empty, hollow, not as good as sex with the person you loved and left (or were left by).

i've recently gone through a similar situation. the differences: i broke the relationship off--she didn't want to--because i was getting all of these weird intuitive danger signs that this was not a safe person or a safe relationship. within 12 hours of our parting she was in a hotel with the guy she dumped to be with me and a woman they'd hired. her first three-way: she told me all about it a couple of days later, how hot it was and all, in excruciating detail. at the same time she continued to tell me how she wanted to be with me. soon after i found out about all sorts of lies, concealments, and involvements that had occurred even while we were still together. i was crushed, but i know that however painful, i did the right thing in breaking it off clean. i haven't seen her in about a month. it sounds to me that that's what you need to do. this girl is young. she doesn't know what she wants. it sounds to me like she's been selfish and insensitive to you. forget about what she wants. decide what you want--something connected to the present and the future; let go of the past, i.e., her--and don't expect anything from her, ever again. get on with your life. exercise, take care of yourself, focus on the present, get involved with new things and new people. learn from what's happened to you. this will pass and you'll be stronger, wiser, and more compassionate for it. be glad that your alive, human, and in touch with your emotions, the bad ones as well as the good ones.

thanks for the replies. yes, she does sound kind of awful in my description of her, and in fact she was in some ways. but she was also wonderful in other ways. i know this sounds wishy washy, but people are complicated, and things aren't always black and white. and i no i'm no saint either. the best thing that i can say is that we simply were the wrong people for each other at the wrong time. i think what bothers me most now about her is that i've lost her as a friend as well as everything else. it was a bad break up and it left me with nothing but negative feelings about her, myself, and our time together. it's been over three weeks of nc and i could keep on going, but i'm wondering... i don't think i can really be friends with her, at least not right now--owing to the lack of trust among other things--but i would like to smooth out the break up if i can. write a nice little non-accusatory note saying hey, it didn't work out, but no hard feelings, i hope you're doing well, vaya con dios. something like that, as long as i can control my feelings and still be honest too. i'm not aiming at getting back together with her, just moving on without the harshness that still clouds the whole affair. i feel like this would give me some closure, make me feel better about myself and how i've been handling things, reharmonize some of my tainted memories, and remove some of the anger, hurt and lack of resolution i'm still feeling. any thoughts on this? is it still too soon?

thanks for the replies. yes, she does sound kind of awful in my description of her, and in fact she was in some ways. but she was also wonderful in other ways. i know this sounds wishy washy, but people are complicated, and things aren't always black and white. and i no i'm no saint either. the best thing that i can say is that we simply were the wrong people for each other at the wrong time. i think what bothers me most now about her is that i've lost her as a friend as well as everything else. it was a bad break up and it left me with nothing but negative feelings about her, myself, and our time together. it's been over three weeks of nc and i could keep on going, but i'm wondering... i don't think i can really be friends with her, at least not right now--owing to the lack of trust among other things--but i would like to smooth out the break up if i can. write a nice little non-accusatory note saying hey, it didn't work out, but no hard feelings, i hope you're doing well, vaya con dios. something like that, as long as i can control my feelings and still be honest too. i'm not aiming at getting back together with her, just moving on without the harshness that still clouds the whole affair. i feel like this would give me some closure, make me feel better about myself and how i've been handling things, reharmonize some of my tainted memories, and remove some of the anger, hurt and lack of resolution i'm still feeling. any thoughts on this? is it still too soon?

i've been looking at this site for about a week now, and finding it sort of comforting. thought it might even more comforting--maybe for me and maybe for others--to release my own story. it's complicated and a little long. i've been married for several years. some years ago the marriage started to fail and though we tried to revive it in numerous ways, about a year ago we jointly decided that it was for the best to break things off amiably. because we have children we decided to continue living together for a while, in separate rooms, for the sake of the kids. i finally moved out about a month ago. i'd been looking forward to it, feeling optimistic about starting a new life. the reality of it was much harder than i imagined. much of my life of many years--which even though it was not especially satisfying or happy, it was routine--is now gone: a wife and friend of many years whom i now see only rarely and only briefly, my children whom i see a few times a week, my house which i dearly loved and now longer have access to. i'm feeling desperately lonely and at a loss about what to do with myself. most of the time i just want to go to sleep, but i can't ever seem to sleep for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time. work goes on but only barely, i'm just kind of plugging away at the things i absolutely have to do and letting most everything else go. i'm depressed and anxious. it gets a little better and then it gets worse. this weekend was awful. i try to exercise, eat right, do yoga, talk to friends, i see a therapist, but i don't feel much better than i did a month ago. at least my kids seem to be dealing with their new situation pretty well. they seem okay. i've tried to keep them at the forefront of my considerations, but it's very difficult sometimes to be a nurturing daddy when you're a sad daddy. there's another essential part of the story that i haven't yet mentioned. it started as a sideline and then--since i'd actually grieved the marriage already for years and was feeling pretty settled in that loss--it seems to have become the main event. a few months ago i met a woman: beautiful, intelligent, funny, sexy, passionate, complicated, exciting, vivacious, charismatic even, younger than me, and a couple of months shy of moving out of town for a new job. things immediately became extraordinarily intense between us. for the first month we were inseparable. for the first time in years i felt passion, i felt loved and wanted by someone with whom i could share those things. it was intoxicating. i fell hard and fast. i thought the feeling was mutual, and--i don't know--maybe it was. but during the second month we started arguing and it gradually became worse. i began to notice things in her that had always been there, most likely, but that i'd chosen to ignore because i was having so much fun. a relentless argumentativeness, an insatiable desire to be right regardless of the costs, possessiveness and jealousy, an coldness, a hardness, a thoughtless and irresponsibility, alack of empathy and sensitivity, a sort of unexplained emotional disconnect--not just with me but with others including her children and her former partners, three of whom were still in the picture in one way or another to my increasing dismay. she started making daily comparisons between me and them, and frequently i didn't come out looking so good. my instincts, which are generally pretty good, began telling me this was an unsafe relationship with a dangerous person and that i should withdraw while i was still able. i began to try, but that just made her withdraw while i got pulled in deeper. i decided that before i got in even deeper, before we began a long distance relationship, which sounded to me like a disaster in waiting, that i had to break it off. i didn't want to, but felt i really had to. further insensitive things were said in the final few days--i won't bore you with the details, but trust me, they were nasty--and i became convinced i was right. she didn't want it to end. we talked about it at length, going back and forth for days, and we finally agreed to leave it undefined, with the understanding that we were both under a lot of stress and that maybe in a month or two we'd be able to start again, fresh. we agreed that it had been an important relationship, and however brief, one of the most powerful and meaningful either of us had had. we kissed and told each other that we loved one another. i was very sad. this was also the day i moved into a new house and the day she moved out of town to her new house and job. i sat alone amidst my boxes that night and pined for her. unexpectedly, i ran into her in my town a few days later. she'd returned there without contacting me but said she was intending to. we had a couple of nice talks over the next couple of days, including one over at my house that involved physical affection and more talk of our future. she remained firm in the conviction that she wanted to try and work it out and that she would remain open to me for quite some time. and then she told that on the night she left town she went out for an evening with the man she'd been involved with when first she met me. they ended up late at a strip club. there they hired a woman and by 4am they were all back at his hotel together--her first threeway. she told me all of this in painstaking detail, with gusto, about how hot and exciting it was, as if it were an adventure that i should be pleased about for her sake. she said she was sharing it with me because she felt i'd understand. i felt kind of numb immediately. then she left and within a few hours my heart had broken. for the first time in more than 20 years i felt heartbreak and jealousy and i hated it. we spoke on the phone the next day and i told her how i felt. she said she was sorry, not for what she did but that i felt the way i did. she said she really cared about me. we didn't talk again for about a week, by which time i'd felt that i'd processed things a bit. we talked a couple of times on the phone over the next few days and they were really good conversations. we talked with warmth, we talked more about renewing things. and then we had a final phone conversation that was really difficult, painful. another man called her while we were on the line; she let him go and came back to our conversation but told she had every intention of calling him back and that she'd been seeing him while i was out of the picture. she was cold and she said more hurtful, insensitive things. it was as if i was getting two different versions of her, one that loved me and another that couldn't care less, or that even wanted to do me damage. among other things she was angry because i'd talked to some friends about what happened--not to be malicious but because i was in pain and needed to get things off my chest. she said that she hadn't done anything wrong and that she felt betrayed, that i'd stabbed her in the back and made her look bad. this from a person who told me early on that it was one of her basic rules that you shouldn't do things if you think they'll embarrass you later, if you don't want them to get around. we tried to end on a up note and she promised me that next time she was in town she would call me and come and see me to talk more. she said she wanted to be friends and more. i told that if she did to please treat me like a friend, not least to contact me when she was in town. i felt very confused, wanting her, yet feeling increasingly certain that it would be bad for me, that she would only become increasingly careless with my feelings, and that she might just want to keep me around for occasional sex or as a safety. i felt awful over the next few days. a few days later i ran into her, again in my town. she'd been there for three days and hadn't contacted me, but now she wanted to sit down and chat, all smiles. she'd been busy, she said, out late one night doing whatever, slept all the next day, etc. it turned out she asked a mutual friend to lie to me about her visit, to say she wouldn't be there at all. i didn't ask what she'd been doing. but at that point i decided, not in anger but with resolve, that it had to end definitively. she said she thought we were going to try and be friends. i said that i didn't think that was going to work out; i didn't think that either one of us, for our various reasons, could really be a friend to the other. i knew now that it would only cause me more pain for a longer time. and that was it: we walked away from each other with hurt feelings and no proper conclusion. i felt then and feel now that we clearly weren't the right people for one another. it's now been 22 days since contact. i've felt depressed, angry, sad, okay, panic-stricken, resigned, strong and righteous, doubtful, lonely, hateful, enraged, guilty, desperate, stupid, and confused. i haven't seen her but i hear of hear from friends of hers and mine. a mutual friend told me that she was a liar regularly, that she'd lied to me repeatedly, even while we were still together and talking about a future, that she'd concealed things about other men from me. another mutual friend confirmed this and told me that actually--while yes, she was beautiful and fascinating and must have been loads of fun in bed--i was lucky to be out of it with as little damage as was done. other people who know her and more about her past than i have said much the same thing. one friend said she just saw her recently, in town again, out having fun with another man. she's now back with the man she was with immediately before and after me, which leaves me feeling that i was just filler, a rebound, that maybe nothing that passed between us--at least for her--meant anything, that nothing was true. this is one of the hardest things: that what should be some beautiful memories are now corrupted. most of all i miss her terribly and wonder how all of this happened, and what any of it actually meant. i've been out with other people and have even had sex a few times, which initially made me feel better--sexual, desirable, moved on--but ultimately left me feeling even more hollow. when will these feelings end? when will i again find someone that i want to be with, and who wants to be with me. i know it could be years or days. intellectually, i know that this will pass, that i will be happy again, that i will love and be loved again, that i will find some resolution of my own. i know that there are lessons to be learned here about myself, the people i become involved with, and the way i comport myself in future relationships. i'm working through it all as best i can, doing all i can, being as strong as i can be. intellectually i know all of this, but emotionally all of this still means almost nothing. my heart remains heavy and the same few scenarios play in my head, over and over and over again, almost without cessation. it's excruciating, but i will endure. well, thanks for the opportunity to get this out. thanks for reading and for any words you might have in response.