Not Touching / Emotional Cheating

Before I start, I just want to preface this with 1) I'm not leaving him right now-- it's not an option, and 2) this is more of a rant and me trying to work things out on paper than anything else. Feel free to comment and offer advice but I'm not looking for a cheerleading squad to convince me to leave.

Long story short, my partner of 2 years cheats. He may not consider it cheating because he feels that emotional cheating and "just looking but not physically touching" isn't cheating. Whatever, yeah, I know. Like if astral sex was real, he'd claim it wasn't cheating because he wasn't physically touching them with the 5 senses. So looking at pictures/videos of women that he has an emotional bond with and masturbating in the bathroom or whatever isn't cheating in his eyes. That sorta thing. I disagree, obviously.

Anyway, because of this situation, I've come a long way from my Catholic upbringing. I've gone from "cheating is wrong-- no ifs, ands or buts about it," to a more liberal view of, "okay, I give up... when in Rome do as the Romans do and if your partner is in love with someone else, just let them go and do what they need to do." Obviously my journey didn't happen overnight. And it's really not so much that I've given up, but I actually do feel a sense of seeing beyond "right and wrong" when it comes to "cheating". But this thread isn't about my newly found perception on cheating, it's more about the one lingering issue I still can't seem to shake.

You see, I can't seem to shake the emotional cheating for some reason. For some reason, I'm always sensing the other woman's presence and it bothers me greatly. I feel like she (there are two exes actually but one is just plain psycho) is extremely dominating and intrusive. I'm not sure if it's because my partner is just bad at lying or being obvious on purpose to annoy me, or it's simply because I just don't like this other woman (his ex who obviously isn't an ex) because she is a total sociopath. The more I know he loves having contact with her, the more I don't like him. Maybe if I actually liked her it wouldn't bother me so much. But she has always been so nasty to me in the past and so arrogant and manipulative, that I just don't understand why he would be attracted to her and want to be around her. She's cruel and the more he is around her, the crueler he becomes.

So it's not so much the relationship he has with her and the "cheating" that bothers me, it's more that her awful personality rubs off on him and then I'm left with the truly unsavory person he's morphed into. It's bizarre. For example, he gossips more. He's meaner when he talks about others. He becomes an intellectual snob. He looks down on anything that isn't British humor or classic literature or sophisticated art. He becomes a total jerk. He loses his empathy. In other words, he turns into her. And as we've already established, I do not like her and she's never liked me. As a matter of fact, I think the only reason she still clings to him is because she knows it bothers me. Again, she's a textbook sociopath, and I'm not saying this to be colorful. She has a severe personality disorder. She makes Gone Girl look like an inbred yokel. She's extremely smart and extremely dangerous and has no problem abusing her power to entertain herself.

Anyway, so this is where I'm at. I feel like when she's around I no longer love my partner. He just turns into this horrific person when she's around. I can always tell. He's no longer the person I am in love with. And the more he continues to do this, the more I'm wanting to look outside the relationship as well for an emotional connection, because I'm just not getting it from him when she's around. She's like a vampire who sucks all of the goodness out of people.

Anyway... thanks for reading my rant. Maybe next time I'll talk about the other ex he can't seem to let go of either. Lol

PS Oh and just so I'm clear on this point, he 110% denies having any contact with any other women. He claims he hasn't cheated and wouldn't cheat on me. So, that's the other issue: the constant gaslighting.

Can I ask why leaving him isnt an option?

Same question as above: why can't you leave?

Your relationship is already over, in all but name.

Can I ask why leaving him isnt an option?

Okay. I told you it wasn't an option, but since you've asked, you get the full rant....

Nowhere to go. No family. No friends. No, those are not exaggerations either. No money saved to go off on my own. Unless I want to go live in my car until I finally roll over and die, that's my only other option. And to be honest, living out of my car is a lot harder for me at this point than living with a liar/cheater. It's not all bad. We have good times. This is just who he is. He's always been a cheater. He's been married 5 times. He's had numerous partnerships and girlfriend in his life. He's much older than me. So I have that going for me. He will probably pass away before I do. Then I will have to deal with the whole "living out of my car" possible scenario once more. lol But I'd rather not rush it. I'm just accepting this is who he is. He's always been a cheater. Nothing more I can do about it. Have to focus on his good points, which there are many. It's just hard to focus on them when they disappear when "she's" in the picture. She truly brings out the worst in him. It's like she magnifies all of his bad personality traits. It's like I'm in a relationship with her, not him. And as discussed before, she doesn't like me at all and is quite vindictive and cruel....

So I dunno. Does it really matter? Does any of this?

But anyway, I'm here indefinitely. It's making me stronger emotionally, that is for certain. I used to be so angry and cry all of the time. Fight with him constantly. But now I have a certain air of calm about everything. Acceptance. Like, I can still accept it without having *to* accept it. Know what I mean? Meaning, this is their mess. Their problem. Their karma or whatever new age crapdoodle terminology you wish to deem it. I own no willing part of it. I've said everything I needed to say hundreds of times. No more. I'm done.

To be honest, I'm not sure what advice you're seeking.

You've already decided you're not leaving. You know that he's a cheater and liar and not going to change.

You ask if any of it even matters. I can't tell you what matters to you. It would sure metter to me, but Im not you. You seem resigned to it, so this is the relationship you can expect. Not sure what more we can tell you, really.

Do you work, or is he supporting you?

What will happen if he breaks up with you? Where will you go? Judging by his shady history, you'll become one of his many exes too. What's your plan then?

To be honest, I'm not sure what advice you're seeking.

 

You've already decided you're not leaving. You know that he's a cheater and liar and not going to change.

 

You seem resigned to it, so this is the relationship you can expect. Not sure what more we can tell you, really.

I was thinking the same thing - not sure what advice you're seeking when you have already know you're not leaving. Not sure what you're looking for.

Where did you live before you met him and moved in with him?

I did state that this would be a rant more than anything else... I just wanted to vent. Wanted others to listen. You don't have to offer advice, but I mentioned that you could if you wanted to... but I also made sure to let you know ahead of time I'm not looking for people to tell me to leave and give me advice regarding that. So I wasn't ever really asking for advice. I was just asking for others to listen to my rant since I'm obviously in need of an ear and have no one else to talk to about this in my life. It's therapeutic for me to write it out like this. Sorry if I'm sounding confusing or unreasonable, but like I said-- I just need to vent.

No, he's not supporting me, but with the money I make and zero savings and lots of debt (thanks to an ex husband who was also a cheater and a very abusive person), I am financially stuck. I would imagine this is a popular reason as to why many men and women can't get out of certain relationships they're in.

Welp, good luck. If leaving right now is not an option, then make it an option as soon as possible. Either that, or consider opening your relationship. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Welp, good luck. If leaving right now is not an option, then make it an option as soon as possible. Either that, or consider opening your relationship. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

That's the funny thing. I've said since the beginning of the relationship I'd be willing to try an open relationship. But he doesn't want that. Why? Because cheaters like to cheat. It's an adrenaline rush, I guess. It's no fun to be in an open relationship if you're into the S&M aspect of cat and mouse games. That's them. So what can I do? The only thing I can do is just accept this is how things are since there's not much I can do to change it. At least it takes a lot of their power away and most of the thrill is gone for them when they realize I couldn't care less. *shrugs shoulders*

But yesterday it was my tipping point. She (I know it was her) sent a "Candida Diet" forum registration to my email address (only a few people besides her have my email addy... she did it on purpose). I guess she was trying to infer I passed on a yeast infection to her via having sex with him or something. But it's the passive aggressive and nasty things like that, that just makes me go "why on earth is she so obsessed with me? She's always in my business and wants me to think about her so she can have a reason to bully me. She's obsessed with me. And she's obsessed with bullying me for god only knows why."

By the way, for what it's worth, I don't have a yeast infection. But my theory was she sent it because of the possibility of catching something from him. Who knows. But my partner and I were talking about a candida diet like 10 minutes before the email was sent. He talks to her on the sly and when I mentioned the email to him he got quiet and had the usual smirk of "oh crap... did she just do what I think she did?" on his face. (And, no, he didn't send the email registration. He doesn't know the email addy anyway.). I mean seriously... she's like 42 years old or something... you think she'd be more mature and have better things to do than pick on someone who couldn't care less about her.

That's the funny thing. I've said since the beginning of the relationship I'd be willing to try an open relationship. But he doesn't want that. Why? Because cheaters like to cheat. It's an adrenaline rush, I guess. It's no fun to be in an open relationship if you're into the S&M aspect of cat and mouse games. That's them. So what can I do? The only thing I can do is just accept this is how things are since there's not much I can do to change it. At least it takes a lot of their power away and most of the thrill is gone for them when they realize I couldn't care less. *shrugs shoulders*

 

But yesterday it was my tipping point. She (I know it was her) sent a "Candida Diet" forum registration to my email address (only a few people besides her have my email addy... she did it on purpose). I guess she was trying to infer I passed on a yeast infection to her via having sex with him or something. But it's the passive aggressive and nasty things like that, that just makes me go "why on earth is she so obsessed with me? She's always in my business and wants me to think about her so she can have a reason to bully me. She's obsessed with me. And she's obsessed with bullying me for god only knows why."

 

By the way, for what it's worth, I don't have a yeast infection. But my theory was she sent it because of the possibility of catching something from him. Who knows. But my partner and I were talking about a candida diet like 10 minutes before the email was sent. He talks to her on the sly and when I mentioned the email to him he got quiet and had the usual smirk of "oh crap... did she just do what I think she did?" on his face. (And, no, he didn't send the email registration. He doesn't know the email addy anyway.). I mean seriously... she's like 42 years old or something... you think she'd be more mature and have better things to do than pick on someone who couldn't care less about her.

Why would you be so careless as to give her your email address?

Why would you be so careless as to give her your email address?

Careless? I met them when they became a couple.

You see, I "met" her via email initially. She seemed okay. I liked her. Then I met her, him and another couple finally in person for meditation practices. A few days after meeting them, my partner and her started to become a couple. I actually did not like him at first but I liked her. Then I ended up not liking either of them. Then she tried to convince the other two people to kick me out of the meditation group. Why? She did not like me. I wasn't a good enough practitioner and meditator for her advanced tastes from what my partner tells me in retrospect.

Anyway, they eventually broke up about 10 or 11 months later. He then asked me out. I was already "kicked out" of the meditation group so it didn't matter to me because I thought they'd never see one another again and thus I'd never have to see her again. So I said yes to his proposal. And she has been after me ever since. She dumped him, yet hates me for dating him after he pursued me. Go figure.

Well, you're not leaving, you say you've resigned yourself and have accepted his infidelity and that instead of seeking out social services to help you relocate, you're going to stick around for more of the same so the only advice I'm going to offer you is to change your email addy.

You say he likes the sneaky aspect of cheating. What's that got to do with you and your choices? You can be sneaking around just as much as he is and maybe you'll even hook up with someone that has a better house to crash in?

Your so called partner doesn't want an open relationship because he doesn't want YOU doing what he's doing. Cheaters are selfish that way.

Well, you're not leaving, you say you've resigned yourself and have accepted his infidelity and that instead of seeking out social services to help you relocate, you're going to stick around for more of the same so the only advice I'm going to offer you is to change your email addy.

 

You say he likes the sneaky aspect of cheating. What's that got to do with you and your choices? You can be sneaking around just as much as he is and maybe you'll even hook up with someone that has a better house to crash in?

 

Your so called partner doesn't want an open relationship because he doesn't want YOU doing what he's doing. Cheaters are selfish that way.

Bingo. He likes me to be there for all of the emotional and practical stuff his mistresses don't care to stick around for. They just want sex with him and fun and someone to inflate their egos. They don't want to listen to him complain or see him he sick or help out around the house or help with money, etc. Too boring for them. So I guess they "allow" me to do the stuff they'd rather have no part in.

Bingo. He likes me to be there for all of the emotional and practical stuff his mistresses don't care to stick around for. They just want sex with him and fun and someone to inflate their egos. They don't want to listen to him complain or see him he sick or help out around the house or help with money, etc. Too boring for them. So I guess they "allow" me to do the stuff they'd rather have no part in.

Yea well, he doesn't want to take a chance on losing you to some other guy if you open up your relationship. Who will allow and enable him to be a bastard to them if you're not there to take it from him? You can blame her all you want, luv but it's him that's the bastard.

Yea well, he doesn't want to take a chance on losing you to some other guy if you open up your relationship. Who will allow and enable him to be a bastard to them if you're not there to take it from him? You can blame her all you want, luv but it's him that's the bastard.

I know. I'm not the type to blame "the other woman". As a matter of fact, when we first started dating, his one ex wife of 7 years kept calling over and over again in the beginning when she knew he was with me. I told him, "yo, boundaries! She's your ex wife for a reason. You don't have children with her. I don't want you leading her on or disrespecting me by having some emotional relationship with her." He refused to cut ties at first because he was worried she'd kill herself (his famous line for everyone he's with that he tells everyone why he can't end it-- he's used it on me too to others, I'm sure of it). I was like, "it's more cruel to keep talking to her and leading her on to think that you want to be with her when you don't... unless you do. And if that's the case, tell me and I'll be okay with that. I just want you to be happy."

Same speech I told him about Candida email woman. I KNOW he was still seeing her while we were going out. Their breakup in front of everyone that day at our last meditation group was a farce. How do I know? Lots of reasons. But the main one was her crazy eyed Facebook selfie she took the day after the breakup. I know he was the one taking it. It was a laughing facial expression of "haha f-u! We didn't break up, sucker, and now I kicked you out of the meditation group finally!"

Anyway I could go on and on. She's messed up. And so is he. But back to the main point: I don't blame her really because as crazy and vindictive and heartless as she is, she's not as strong and independent of a woman as she thinks she is. If she was, she wouldn't be taking out her aggressions on me for HIS bull****. If she's mad he won't choose her, or if she's mad he is using her as the other woman, or whatever, then I feel bad for her because he has her just as controlled and duped. She obviously is a very lonely person too and needs some sort of connection with him to feel good. And the fact she can't "have him" when she feels like it must tick her off on some level. So instead of being rightfully mad at HIM, she takes it out on me. And then when she's mad at me, he tries to placate her and abuses me so she will be happy. It's very sick.

So yeah... before I just felt bad for myself. Felt bad I was the victim and the abused one. Now I just feel bad for all of them. Because she obviously has desires and needs that aren't being met and she blames me for it. He has desires and needs he feels he can better satisfy with someone else but is too afraid to tell me. And his one other ex wife (not sure if there are more, but he is a dreamy flirt) obviously has a long term connection to him and misses him from time to time and hates me for telling him to stay away from her when we started to date.

But now? Again, now I just let it all be. If he wants to have a connection to these women then who am I to say no? I've tried to be controlling and demanding at first. I tried to establish boundaries. Didn't work. Okay. So now I'm trying to be reasonable and allow whatever will be will be. I'm trying to think beyond puritanical societal concepts. I'm becoming more comfortable with a world where we are all allowed freedoms that aren't defined in dualistic terms.

I honestly would love for us all to get along at least on a civil level. I would love to be able to see them and be happy for them and see him say "okay, I'm off to see L tonight. Talk to you later" and see him feel free to be who he is and let them have their relationship. And I'd be happy to see her or the ex wife and not get this "I despise you" vibe from them. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world full of cupcakes and unicorns if we all got along like mature adults? But none of them want that apparently. They just want to be sneaky and bully me. I don't get why. I am seriously lacking friends in life. I'd love to have them as friends. We share a man in common-- why couldn't we be friendly at the very least, if not friends? Mormons do it successfully, no?

But no. Egos get in the way. Jealousy rears its ugly head. But why? I'm a rather reasonable and kind person. I actually do care about them whether they believe it or not. Why? Because I've been and am lonely like they are. And he cares for them and I care for him, thus I should automatically care about them because they are important to him. Right?

And I'm not saying we all get together and have a massive orgy. No. I'm just saying why can't we all just respect one another's time and respective dimensions and try to be a little genuinely kinder? I mean if they really love my partner, then they should respect the fact that he loves me and I love him. And the same goes for me towards them.

Sadly, it won't work out because it's just a matter of they don't like me. Why? They haven't told me the exact reasons. Could be something stupid like they don't like the way I dress. Who knows? But i just feel awful they won't allow me to be kind to them and like them. It's like the more kind and vulnerable I am, the more they bully me around.

I know that life is not alway fair, but seriously... why hate someone who only wants to be kind to you and get to know you and wants to make a difficult situation more amicable? I just don't get it. They seem like two interesting women. I'm not saying we have to hang out at the mall and drink soda pops together. I'm just saying can't we be friendly and genuinely kind and respect the situation as it is?

Or maybe they don't want that. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe his is just the thrill of the game. Dysfunction is preferred, maybe....

So pretty much.. you are willing to have an open relationship. Which is okay... why not have that discussion with your guy?

So pretty much.. you are willing to have an open relationship. Which is okay... why not have that discussion with your guy?

I have. Numerous times. He said he doesn't want that. I kind of went over that already in one of the previous posts. I've offered that option numerous times. So my guess is that he either can't handle me finding other people to be with and/or he just likes the thrill of having secret relationships.

Well, I just don't think this is going to work out due to the double standards. This is affecting you in a negative way otherwise you wouldn't be here. You've just kind of haplessly accepted his behavior in a guise of "progressiveness", but he won't do the same. This is an incompatibility issue.

We share a man in common-- why couldn't we be friendly at the very least, if not friends? Mormons do it successfully, no?

I am an inactive mormon, have studied church history extensively, AND I have read a couple of books on modern polyamory. They are not comparable. Real Mormons do not practice polygamy anymore and haven't for some time. And things were not all rosy even when they did. The motivations are completely different. It certainly wasn't about the men having sufficiently large "love tanks" to satisfy more than one person. One of the main reasons it was "successful" is the men were able to convince their wives that this was sanctioned by God. Plus they were surrounded by a community bubble that approved of the practice, which really doesn't exist anymore in western culture. And some of the practicing men didn't even want to do it. It also did not go two-ways either. The women weren't permitted to have multiple lovers.

Well, I just don't think this is going to work out due to the double standards. This is affecting you in a negative way otherwise you wouldn't be here. You've just kind of haplessly accepted his behavior in a guise of "progressiveness", but he won't do the same. This is an incompatibility issue.

 

 

 

I am an inactive mormon, have studied church history extensively, AND I have read a couple of books on modern polyamory. They are not comparable. Real Mormons do not practice polygamy anymore and haven't for some time. And things were not all rosy even when they did. The motivations are completely different. It certainly wasn't about the men having sufficiently large "love tanks" to satisfy more than one person. One of the main reasons it was "successful" is the men were able to convince their wives that this was sanctioned by God. Plus they were surrounded by a community bubble that approved of the practice, which really doesn't exist anymore in western culture. And some of the practicing men didn't even want to do it. It also did not go two-ways either. The women weren't permitted to have multiple lovers.

Oh okay. Good to know. Thanks for the info, it was a very interesting read. I thought Mormons still practiced polyamory due to that show Sister Wives. I haven't seen the show but I heard about it in passing.

Anyway, I'm not even looking for multiple lovers. I've never been the type to want to just hook up with someone just because it struck my fancy. I was a virgin when I married my ex husband. A real virgin. Not one of those "I did everything but vaginal". No. And after that I only had two other partners, one of whom I never had intercourse with. This current partner is my fourth. And I don't care to have a 5th or a 6th or 20th for that matter. I'm not looking to get revenge nor am I looking to just have a roll in the sack. There have only been three other men in my life whom I thought, "My god... wouldn't I love to be with them." But two were married and zero were interested in me, so.... lol.

I guess my point is that yeah, if the opportunity arose and I met someone and my current partner was still dishing me the double standard BS, well I'd just have to make a choice and jump in with both feet and no regrets. But for right now I have no desire to seek out anything. I've never been the type to seek out anything. I just let it happen. Nor am I horribly distraught that he is having all of the fun behind my back and I am not. It doesn't matter really. Like I said before, I needed to vent to work things out. That's how I am. I indulge my stupid ego for a bit and afterwards I usually get a tiny bit of clarity on my situation and the ego dwindles a tad. I'm not saying my insights are right or wrong-- I'm just saying that my current situation is what it is, and I'm finally coming to terms with it. Everything is in constant flux and who knows?-- tomorrow I may change my mind because the situation may change. But until then I'm okay and I appreciate everyone reading this and offering your support and insights. It sounds strange, but I feel a lot more liberated in a sense by being able to let go of these "rules" I thought I had to live by to be happy. It's hard to explain unless you experience first hand I guess.