Don't want to break up, terrified of moving in and her anger

So my girlfriend and I have been through a lot in the last five or six years, with many breakups and ups and downs but finally I feel like we're both starting to grow up a bit. I'm 40 and she's 36 and I'm doing everything I can for us but I'm just constantly in my mind replaying over and over whether I really want this and just don't know what steps to take next.

She is clearly in love and wants more than anything to make this work, and I believe that she would do anything.

A few months ago her contract with her roommate situation was finishing and I offered to let her move into my smaller one bedroom, and we agreed then to find a bigger place together, with her combining her smaller previous rent of $550/mo with my much larger rent of $1700/mo. It's way too expensive here.

The problem, however, is her anger.

Since I've known her she's had these horrible rages that come about from time to time, where if I say something wrong -- and it can be the silliest thing in the world -- she loses her mind and won't stop yelling at me for sometimes an hour or more. I used to try to hug her and tell her I love her and say over and over "Baby, it's not important, please stop, please, please stop" but it never works. I've tried just agreeing with her and telling her she's right but it doesn't work. I've gotten to the point where I just sit and stare at the ground while she yells, repeating "Please, just go away" over and over, as I know nothing will calm her down other than time.

Examples of times it's happened in the past two months:

* For her birthday last month I took her out to a restaurant we used to live close to ages ago and there gave her a card with a ticket to a full day experience I thought she'd love -- she did love it, was so excited, but then I made a comment about how her jokes remind me a little of my brother's humor (I love my brother so much), but because earlier in the night I'd said he was feeling a lot of self-pity after his divorce earlier in the night she only heard "You're a pity party like my brother" and wouldn't stop yelling all night about how insulting I am. We went to bed angry.

* We were watching this movie Ex Machina awhile back one night after a few glasses of wine, and I jokingly made the comment that having seen it once, I actually respect the 'bad boy' main character more than the 'hero', who comes off as pretty weak. She lost her mind and screamed how could I possibly say something so stupid and that lasted until she went to bed.

* I took her to New York for Christmas for the first time and while there we were out shopping and I was thinking that she could use a good hat and scarf for Christmas as she had none, so I took her to look at some and she scoffed that she didn't like any of them. I laughed and said that's good to know since I was thinking about getting her some for Christmas. Later on she angrily said to me out of nowhere "I can't believe you were going to get me a f***ing hat and scarf for Christmas, that's what CHILDREN get", to which I was astounded and tried to convince her it's a perfectly normal present and just one of many she'd receive -- but we ended up having a very public screaming match on the streets of New York City.

* A week later we went out for a nice night in Boston, and on getting back to the hotel I was in the middle of telling her a story about a friend when she interrupted to say that she wanted me to know that her ex had messaged her on Christmas Day to wish her merry Christmas and that she had replied the same but nothing more. A little surprised, I told her my ex had done the same (my ex is married and just had her first kid and I'm happy for her), and my ex and I had a quick chat where I wished her well with the kid and that was all. My current girlfriend began screaming, demanding to see my phone and read the messages, and I was so angry at her lack of trust that after her continuing to demand to see the phone I finally just deleted the conversation in front of her. That led to two more hours of yelling where the hotel security actually came to our door twice and said they'd gotten complaints.

* Saturday night I had two separate birthday events with two friends and she was returning from a trip home. I went to the first event with friends at a bar, had a nice time catching up with people I hadn't seen in awhile, then met her at the second place at 10pm for the other friend's birthday. It was great to see her arrive there after being away for a week, we laughed and danced. A woman I work with was visiting London from the US, was out with her friend, so I'd said to join our group. The woman got there already a little drunk and at one point told her friend to take a picture of the two of us. I thought nothing of it and just smiled for the photo, but afterword my girlfriend went into rage mode again, demanding that we had to leave, that the night was ruined, that I should have done more to "slap her down", and outside began saying "IT'S OVER. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS S***. IT'S OVER!", then accusing me of sleeping with the woman, demanding to go through my phone and read the message history, which I freely let her do as there was almost none, on and on. She seemed to get over it on the way home, but on getting back home got angry about it again and went to bed again with me sitting stunned on the couch.

And yet every single time one of these events happens, the next morning she is so apologetic, barely remembers what happened, and wants me to please please forgive her and not bring it up again.

It would be so easy to just break up with her and move on, however when she's NOT raging like this she's actually really lovely to be around, and our interests are usually so similar that it's always nice to be with her.

But I can't live like this, continuing to have anxiety around when the next random explosion will happen. I'm thinking of getting her to go to a counselor with me in the hopes that she'll find some ways to calm herself down and get rid of this fury that must be always right there under her skin, and that'd be fine, but the problem today is timing.

We'd been looking for a new apartment all last month, found a great one, are supposed to sign for it this week, and now after the birthday rage last weekend I'm just not looking forward to it at all. I have this red alert sign flashing in my head, and yet I know if I back out of the place we've viewed and both love, she's going to take it as such a huge problem that we might never get over it. And maybe that's a good thing, I don't know.

I just don't want to live in this constant fear of when the next blowup is going to happen.

Has anyone here had any experience of dealing with someone like this? Thanks so much in advance for your advice.

This has to be some kind of mental illness or personality disorder. She NEEDS to get counselling. Your examples make me cringe, I mean I'm not always the most easy person to deal with either but I cannot imagine actually screaming at my partner, let alone for hours - this whole thing sounds unbearable.

She says she barely remembers the outbursts? Sounds to me like one of those mental disorder where the person just goes in total rage mode, mind goes blank, just sees "black", they have no real control over themselves and once its over they barely remember...because it's like a total blackout. Kind of scary, if you ask me.

I cant help but wonder though that if you had put your foot down earlier, maybe she would have at least begun to TRY to control her anger.. i.e serious talk with her à la "If this is going to keep happening, we ARE breaking up, no discussions. Either get help or we are done."

Wishing you the best of luck.

OP: Its not your job or role to "fix her". You need to tell her to get some counseling and until she does, you need to go no contact. Do not even consider moving in together. It will be hell on earth.

This problem will not "go away in time". Moving in together will not fix or force you two to address this problem.

I was in a relationship like this for three years. We were in our late 30s and she could go off at any moment. I started developing anxiety around the tactical thinking that I had to constantly be using to sustain the relationship.

For every "sunny moment" there were three "dark and stormy" moments that came about through her impression that because I wasn't a CIO by the age of 35, didn't own a house at the time, wasn't shopping for engagement rings in my free time....that it justified a tongue lashing. I spent a lot of time at her place which was a problem. We actually went to couples counseling ( I know..I know...we weren't even married!) where through about 5 expen$ive $e$$ion$, we "discovered" that everything was my fault, I had anger issues with my father, I was lazy because I hadn't gotten out of a 60-plus hour a week IT engineering job during an economic downturn. After these "sessions", I said F it all and told her that I'm not paying someone to call me an a-hole in nice terms. She was able to convince the therapist that she didn't have any anger issues (she had a psych undergrad) and that I was the source of all negativity in the relationship. My real problem was that I didn't expose her issues in front of him. We never got to her issues with her parents, her insatiable need for professional success due to lack of control of her personal life, her conditioning to use others to attain success.....the list could go on for pages.

We broke up once and then got back together due to her mother passing and me feeling obligated to support her in her time of need. She asked me to come to the funeral which required a road trip. As you can predict, everyone was like, "Its so great to see you back together again!" when in reality I wanted to shout at them "We've been back together for three days! I'm here to be supportive! Don't jump to conclusions!"......

Sure enough, on the way home from the funeral, she started talking about commitment, having kids, etc....i didn't want to be a and tell her (the day after we buried her mom) that that was not what I was thinking. I kept quiet. She started yelling. I just sat there, rolled my eyes and then pretended to fall asleep.

So we got involved, but luckily, I had taken a consulting role that kept me on the road during the week. It made things easier but after a while, all the aforementioned issues started up again.

A big problem was that all of her friends were getting married and having babies around her. They appeared to be happy couples and she wanted that too. However, her anger issues kept me from wanting to be tied to her for the rest of my life.

So on NYE, exactly 3 years to the day that we began our relationship, I decided to come home early from Christmas vacation so that we could have a nice NYE together. I decided to drive 10 hours from DC to Atlanta to surprise her.

She called and we chatted. I told her that I was on the way home. She seemed happy about it. Then about three hours later, after visiting some of her friends that were expecting, she laid into me about marriage and children and how I was "unmotivated to move on with life".

I hung up the phone and I never talked to her again. It was one of the best things I ever did in my life and I never looked back.

Yes, I have experienced something like this.

My ex-boyfriend is a sufferer of Borderline Personality Disorder (diagnosed) and the sudden rages he flew into are very similar to what you are describing. It could seemingly come out of nowhere and create an embarrassing scene if we happened to be in public. He also had himself convinced I was cheating, though I never did nor even thought about it. He quite literally believed the stories in his head, which were that I was not trustworthy and had slept with multiple men behind his back. None of it was true.

I - like you - tried at first to settle him, assure him that I loved him, and so on. It doesn't work.

I eventually had to leave for good. The verbal and emotional abuse was too much and it was chipping away at me. I cannot begin to guess if your girlfriend suffers from a personality disorder, but the common characteristics are striking. Do not move in with her. And do not allow her to sweep these rages under the rug like it's all going to go away. She does not get permission to be verbally abusive and then demand you not bring it up.

You need to tell her in no uncertain terms that the relationship will be over unless she gets help. Something is clearly not right with her. You can't fix it, but perhaps a good psychologist can get at what's behind this disproportionate anger. Something has to change, because it's already worn you down. I feel for you, I've been there. Be firm in your boundaries, OP.

Yeah, it feels that way, Bunney. I don't know the clinical name for it but it's like there must be something seething there close to the surface, always ready to blow, and it's therefore not ever really about the thing she says it is. Not really.

I'm absolutely going to speak to her after work tonight about requiring to see a counselor and making it a must and not a maybe. I've told her before I don't want to live with it though, and it's set her off again with "Oh, so your love for me isn't unconditional then? There's strings on it??"

She's also recognised the need herself and has bought herself a book on 'defusing anger'.

I guess my real question is then: do I go ahead with signing a new lease together this week?

Or do I push back and say we need to get our own places for now until I can be sure the counselling is effective, knowing full well that this might start another rage?

We both have to be out of my current place by March 31.

As usual, Miss Canuck is right on the money!

Again, its not your job or role to "fix her". "Pushing back" will not be enough. This will be a real test for you.

You need to tell her to get some counseling and until she does, you need to go no contact. Do not even consider moving in together. It will be hell on earth.

This problem will not "go away in time". Moving in together will not fix or force you two to address this problem.

It will take time for her to work on this issue as well. Going to a few therapy sessions and reading a book on the subject will not fix this overnight. You need to see a real change in her behavior, which may only be temporary and for show, before even thinking about taking this relationship further.

As for her statement on "strings attached" and "conditional love": Yeah, her anger is more like a noose for a relationship.

Resign your OWN lease for six months. See how it goes. Don't be afraid to walk away. You're not as happy or as "in love" as you think.....

Yeah, it feels that way, Bunney. I don't know the clinical name for it but it's like there must be something seething there close to the surface, always ready to blow, and it's therefore not ever really about the thing she says it is. Not really.

 

I'm absolutely going to speak to her after work tonight about requiring to see a counselor and making it a must and not a maybe. I've told her before I don't want to live with it though, and it's set her off again with "Oh, so your love for me isn't unconditional then? There's strings on it??"

 

She's also recognised the need herself and has bought herself a book on 'defusing anger'.

 

I guess my real question is then: do I go ahead with signing a new lease together this week?

 

Or do I push back and say we need to get our own places for now until I can be sure the counselling is effective, knowing full well that this might start another rage?

 

We both have to be out of my current place by March 31.

Absolutely, unequivocally - NO.

This will get worse - not better - if you move in without her getting professional help. A book isn't anywhere near enough. She is manipulating you by claiming your love has "strings attached." Nuh-uh. She is verbally and emotionally abusing you, and that is unacceptable.

Yes, tell her you two need to continue living separately until she seeks and makes progress with therapy. This will make her explode. But stand your ground. Once she sees she can't jerk you around with her raging and bullying, she might have a wake-up call.

She has been getting away with this for far too long. You need to put your foot down, and realize this isn't something that will just go away or get better without professional intervention.

Absolutely, unequivocally - NO.

 

This will get worse - not better - if you move in without her getting professional help. A book isn't anywhere near enough. She is manipulating you by claiming your love has "strings attached." Nuh-uh. She is verbally and emotionally abusing you, and that is unacceptable.

 

Yes, tell her you two need to continue living separately until she seeks and makes progress with therapy. This will make her explode. But stand your ground. Once she sees she can't jerk you around with her raging and bullying, she might have a wake-up call.

 

She has been getting away with this for far too long. You need to put your foot down, and realize this isn't something that will just go away or get better without professional intervention.

Absolutely. 100% agree.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. Just to be clear, we're already living together and have been since early November, and for the first month or so things were great. But my lease is up and we have to move at the end of March -- either into a new place together as we are now, or else back into separate places.

I'm just struggling with whether I need to go home and tell her tonight that she needs to find her own place again after all.

ShatteredMan, that sounds like a terrible experience. I think I'd be okay in therapy though as I really never get angry about anything other than "PLEASE just STOP BEING ANGRY!", which sounds stupid whenever I yell it after trying to be calm and patient for half an hour.

MissCanuck, I thought about BPD as well but out of the list of symptoms I've seen she really only has a few:

Yes: Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Yes: Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Yes: A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)

Yes: Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self

Only the rages: Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days

Unsure: Chronic feelings of emptiness

Unsure: Having stress-related paranoid thoughts

Never: Having severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality

Never: Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating

Never: Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

Is it possible to be just "some" BPD?

Get your own place, man. Give her time, space and distance to work on herself.

It won't be easy but you both will be better for it.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. Just to be clear, we're already living together and have been since early November, and for the first month or so things were great. But my lease is up and we have to move at the end of March -- either into a new place together as we are now, or else back into separate places.

 

I'm just struggling with whether I need to go home and tell her tonight that she needs to find her own place again after all.

 

ShatteredMan, that sounds like a terrible experience. I think I'd be okay in therapy though as I really never get angry about anything other than "PLEASE just STOP BEING ANGRY!", which sounds stupid whenever I yell it after trying to be calm and patient for half an hour.

 

MissCanuck, I thought about BPD as well but out of the list of symptoms I've seen she really only has a few:

 

Yes: Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

Yes: Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Yes: A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)

Yes: Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self

Only the rages: Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days

Unsure: Chronic feelings of emptiness

Unsure: Having stress-related paranoid thoughts

Never: Having severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality

Never: Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating

Never: Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

 

 

Is it possible to be just "some" BPD?

Yes, as it is generally considered a spectrum disorder. To my understanding, one does not need to "tick all the categories" in order to be considered a sufferer. My ex never exhibited self-harming behavior, or impulsive and dangerous behaviors either. (At least, not to my knowledge) As far as I know, he also never experienced dissociative symptoms.

He did exhibit all the other common characteristics associated with BPD, to a high and consistent degree. This was what led not one but two different psychiatrists to diagnose him as such. (He didn't agree with the first doctor and wanted a second opinion) However, he refused any treatment. There is no "cure" for this; some sufferers will be prescribed anti-anxiety medication, for example, but it's to manage a symptom and not treat the cause. Ongoing and frequent therapy is generally recommended for BPD sufferers, such as CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) My ex would have none of it. He had a history of turbulent relationships, and I now know why. Being with him was like walking on a landmine with no map and no warning signs of the impending explosions. I had even offered to attend therapy with him, but he vehemently refused.

And so, I felt I had no choice but to leave. I was done being treated like his emotional punching bag. Leaving was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I felt some sympathy as I couldn't imagine the emotional tornadoes happening within him, but I needed to look out for myself too. That was 3 years ago and I have never looked back.

Since you already live together, I would advise you both move into your own places unless and until she gets help. If she is BPD, this will trigger an episode as abandonment is a key fear. But you cannot go on like this. You can let her know you will support any effort she makes to seek help, but getting help is not up for negotiation. Don't let her manipulate you by guilting you. Enough is enough.

Only a qualified and experienced psychiatrist would be able to determine if your girlfriend is BPD or has another mental health issue. A counselor without a PhD probably won't be enough to accurately evaluate and diagnose her, let alone recommend any course of treatment. If she won't go, I would not recommend you stay in this relationship. It isn't working.

Ahhhh. GD it. Okay. Gonna be a tough one.

Really not looking forward to this conversation, but I understand it needs to happen.

A big thing I feel so conflicted about is that she's going to feel tremendously betrayed AND yet has no social support network. She has no other friends as she burned those relationships ages ago, each for what she feels are justifiable reasons. Telling her she cannot have the place together she's always dreamed of and has to go back off into the world on her own just goes against all my best instincts of wanting to support and protect her, and I worry that instead of getting her to face her problems, it's only going to make them worse as her feeling of abandonment will seem justified.

How do I get past that and not feel like a total heel?

Ahhhh. GD it. Okay. Gonna be a tough one.

 

Really not looking forward to this conversation, but I understand it needs to happen.

 

A big thing I feel so conflicted about is that she's going to feel tremendously betrayed AND yet has no social support network. She has no other friends as she burned those relationships ages ago, each for what she feels are justifiable reasons. Telling her she cannot have the place together she's always dreamed of and has to go back off into the world on her own just goes against all my best instincts of wanting to support and protect her, and I worry that instead of getting her to face her problems, it's only going to make them worse as her feeling of abandonment will seem justified.

 

How do I get past that and not feel like a total heel?

Hello and welcome (belatedly) to the forum.

You recognize that you are not responsible for her consequences to her choices and behavior. Whether it is her actions with you or others, they are *her* actions.

Mate, do you understand that you are being abused by this woman? She is quite well and truly an abuser.

The devil is not in the details, here.

It's screaming in your face.. Literally and figuratively.

Please consider this - if you carry on with this woman, and you two produce children, how she treats you is how she will treat your children.

Is this a remotely acceptable scenario for you?

Thanks for the welcome, and no, of course it isn't. And I get that it's important to not let her off the hook with half measures now as it's not something that's going to resolve itself.

I'm simply running it over and over again in my head trying to find the words that are going to make this conversation the least hellish for both of us as she's thinking we're both going to sign the new lease tomorrow or Wednesday.

Get your own place.

She needs anger management classes. I would explain to her that you need some time to talk, and you need her to listen. That she should consider taking classes on how to manage her anger that it is quite emotionally abusive. Then let her know when she does this, you will give her time to cool down, by leaving the situation, and that you will not enable or approve of her behavior anymore.

I'm sorry, Chris, I didn't intend to seem brusque or condescending. My brevity is only because you are clearly thinking this through intelligently and sensitively and you've already received excellent feedback and analysis from the forum.

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing any of that - I just didn't want to belabor the good points made and discussed by you and the rest of the forum by unnecessarily rehashing them.

I'm sincerely worried for you, not in any way judging or chastising you. This is a spectacularly horrendous position to be in, and I just don't want your compassion and personal integrity to inadvertently work against your - and even her - best interests.

Please keep us updated. I wish you the best of luck.

You didn't come off as brusque or condescending in the least, Dahl. Thanks for the followup though.

I just don't want your compassion and personal integrity to inadvertently work against your - and even her - best interests.

Yeah, I've had problems in the past pulling out of bad relationships because I don't want to be the bad guy. I need to keep reminding myself of your words right here. Ahh... she's going to be so hurt and upset and this is someone who I know would truly do anything for me, she just doesn't have the necessary controls on herself to be able to make a life with her something that's not a daily chore. God damn it all - and god damn my own self mostly for allowing myself to get back into this situation.

The thing to remember, OP, is that what you view as protecting her is actually enabling her. It's allowing her to continue mistreating you and the people around her.

I understand you're not doing so out of malicious intent, but in the end, it's keeping her stuck - she doesn't have to take accountability for her actions because she has no reason to. It's hurting her and you to continue living like this. At some point, you need to stop trying to rescue her from herself. What good is that really doing either of you? It helps you feel better in the moment because you don't feel guilty for holding her responsible for her abusive behaviour, but it's not ultimately benefiting either of you.

The abuse continues and she kills off any other supports she had. You feel like crap because you are the one she takes it all out on.

In my experience, she won't change unless she really understands that she stands to lose something important. This isn't meant as a threat or manipulation. I too had warned my ex I would walk away if he didn't get help, and you can bet I meant it. Sure, he freaked when I held up my end of that. But it didn't change anything. He didn't seek help. And so I knew there was no way he actually took me or our relationship seriously. He didn't want to change; he just wanted someone who would take the abuse he dished out. He found her too, not long after I left. And I thank my lucky stars everyday that it's not me!

Yeah, I know it. She's rather attractive so has never had a problem getting guys' attention, but I think what she's looking for is the guy with the patience and forgiveness to tolerate all her sh*t, and she's come to look at me as some kind of saviour in that regard, whereas like you say I think that may be preventing her from making progress.

One of the problems is that she doesn't make much money from her job while she's also pursuing a three-year Master's program in psych that causes her to have significant additional expenditures, but which she needs to do so she can eventually get a better job. I think she might even be willing to get treatment, but it's not something she can really afford, so getting dumped by someone who can't deal with with her issues and knowing she can't even pay for the treatment for those issues will leave her even more upset and feeling lost.

I guess I just have to tell myself that none of that is my problem. It just still somehow feels so wrong.

I was in a relationship not unlike this one. She had a few total meltdowns like what you've described; one time she almost caused a car accident because I was horrible enough to register mild disappointment that she had rapidly gambled away about $200 of my money. Another time she caused a scene in a restaurant because she thought I was eating too fast and not paying enough attention to her.

I could tell a ton of stories. The worse thing was that she very rarely apologized, rather blamed me for everything. I believe she had BPD.

It's hard to leave because you have a heart and can see the pain that's underneath the anger. Couple that with a misplaced sense of chivalry and society's message sometimes that women like this are just "feisty." They are "emotional" and it is your job as the man to be there for her and absorb some of the storm until she relaxes and centers herself again. Hell, you probably were insensitive in some way and did something to set her off. She has a right to be upset.

Forget that. This woman is doing damage to your psyche and you don't owe her anything. You can feel bad for her and hope she gets help but you can't save her. You must protect yourself from any further abuse by her and separate yourself from this toxic situation.

Yeah, I know it. She's rather attractive so has never had a problem getting guys' attention, but I think what she's looking for is the guy with the patience and forgiveness to tolerate all her sh*t, and she's come to look at me as some kind of saviour in that regard, whereas like you say I think that may be preventing her from making progress.

 

One of the problems is that she doesn't make much money from her job while she's also pursuing a three-year Master's program in psych that causes her to have significant additional expenditures, but which she needs to do so she can eventually get a better job. I think she might even be willing to get treatment, but it's not something she can really afford, so getting dumped by someone who can't deal with with her issues and knowing she can't even pay for the treatment for those issues will leave her even more upset and feeling lost.

 

I guess I just have to tell myself that none of that is my problem. It just still somehow feels so wrong.

Hold tight, Chris.

This *is* wrong, but *you've* done nothing wrong.

I'm not debating her character, but her personality is terrifying and she is beyond toxic. She is an abuser.

You deserve to be free from abuse.

And she's not looking for a bloke who *fill in the blank with virtually anything* - she has (had, oh please, please soon be had..) a remarkably gracious, unique and elegant man in you and your approach to her behavior is nothing short of miraculous, in my opinion, and it wasn't enough because for abusers there simply isn't enough, Chris.

She'll always have a reason, explanation, excuse, fairy story as to how this isn't her fault, her doing, in her memory bank.

Make no mistake. She may have loads of nifty quirks and tens of attractive qualities but she's an abuser.

Nothing mitigates this.

Nothing could make it your fault.

I guess my real question is then: do I go ahead with signing a new lease together this week?

 

Or do I push back and say we need to get our own places for now until I can be sure the counselling is effective, knowing full well that this might start another rage?

Let's say, for arguments sake, she is Borderline. Couples counseling isn't really the "fix" at all. (I would caution us against diagnosis though because she could have any number of other issues we don't know about and/or she's simply an abuser.)

I think you are asking the wrong question. You need to ask yourself what is going on with YOU mentally and emotionally that keeps you in this type of unhealthy relationship and makes you afraid to end it completely. Perhaps you can get counseling for yourself to gain the courage to let her go.

Let's say, for arguments sake, she is Borderline. Couples counseling isn't really the "fix" at all. (I would caution us against diagnosis though because she could have any number of other issues we don't know about and/or she's simply an abuser.)

 

I think you are asking the wrong question. You need to ask yourself what is going on with YOU mentally and emotionally that keeps you in this type of unhealthy relationship and makes you afraid to end it completely. Perhaps you can get counseling for yourself to gain the courage to let her go.

Interesting perspective, Mrs. Darcy. Curious what your own relationship is like - do you often go around dropping people you love without a second thought because your mental and emotional state is so healthy?

One, I have been to a counselor for over a year and I dropped him in the end because he was unable to give me zero insights into myself other than "And how does that make you feel?".

Two, I come here and ask strangers for advice on how to best manage this breakup that I know I need in a way that will minimise both our pain, and while I receive some great advice on this, your reply essentially breaks down to "Get help because you can't do it". This is a human being who I love, and who -- between painful tantrums that occur about once a week -- all the rest of the time is someone perfectly warm, loving and caring. This is not a simple black and white situation, it's an extremely difficult set of tradeoffs.

I'm trying to do it, just in the kindest way possible. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

Interesting perspective, Mrs. Darcy. Curious what your own relationship is like - do you often go around dropping people you love without a second thought because your mental and emotional state is so healthy?

 

One, I have been to a counselor for over a year and I dropped him in the end because he was unable to give me zero insights into myself other than "And how does that make you feel?"

Perhaps instead of being defensive, you can be reflective. You've been in a toxic relationship for years. IF you think that's a badge of honor, that's fine. But if all was fine, you wouldn't have posted at all.

Honestly, it's a bit immature to be able to speculate about HER behavior and mental state and then le when the mirror is turned on you. Very telling. Relationships, no matter what they are, take two.

Okay, but you understand I'm looking for the right way out of it, right? "Defensiveness" would be replying to say you're wrong but you're not -- I definitely have my own issues that would cause me to stay this long.

However, there's two problems, the short term one and the long term one. The short term one is how to extricate myself from this in a way that I can most confidently look back and feel I did it the right way. That's what I'm trying to figure out today.

Long term I need to work on whatever would cause me to stay that long with someone I really love, but who just barely makes my life too difficult to keep with me, and I can definitely work on that next.

But "you need to work on yourself" doesn't really help me get to a better place today, does it?

Or do you think I should work on myself before breaking it off?