Don't know what to do...

[DancingShoes]

I think that whether or not you have feelings for her opening up and apologising was a great move, just for her sake, and you should continue to make better friends with her. But be VERY careful before you do make any further moves, if you do, that you know EXACTLY what you want. You have messed with her emotions enough as it is, be very careful to put her feelings first and foremost and not to use her as an experiment. Do you actually know that she is gay? Because if she isnt, thats where the story ends!

[Wayfara]

DancingShoes it's funny that you should bring up those points, she asked me too if I saw her as an experiment.

 

My father is home again, two weeks earlier than expected. I haven’t talked much to him, he’s very drunk and sleeps or is in the pub most of the time. My mother says that when he’s feeling better and sober up we are going to have a “family counsel” (we sitting around a table while my father tell us about the changes that have to be done) about this thing about E, she says that this concerns the family as a whole and that we have to take a decision as a united family. I really hate when we are going to have the “family counsel”, my father gives us so ridiculous restrictions like how many cm/inches toilet paper we are allowed to use each time because toilet paper is expensive and ‘he isn’t made of money’ etc. But he himself wastes money like nobody else with his drinking and expensive habits.

 

Well the day before yesterday I was at E’s place. I baked an apple-pie to her, I was pretty satisfied with it even if it didn’t look as perfect as the ones E makes. I gave her a book with recipes for cookies and the rose and the card to my favourite cook too. She just laughed seeing all the things saying that it was very nice of me. I also took with me one of my father’s vodka bottles. I said we would test a bit, she didn’t want to at first but I managed to convince her saying that we would only take very little. She usually looks a bit serious but when tipsy she laughs at every little things, she’s so cute when giggly We had some music on and I asked her if she wanted to dance and she only said “no”. But after a minute or two she changed her mind and we did dance a bit, pretty slow in the beginning it was nice, but then we made it wilder, spinning around a lot until we had to stop as we began to feel ill.

 

Anyway after we had been drinking a bit more I began telling her really stupid daft things, it did, I suppose, seem like a good idea in the moment, but now thinking about it makes me cringe. I wish I could undo it. Well I said things like that I thought she was very attractive, that I thought it was sexy when she had her hair wet and a lot more. Yeah really daft things especially as I know she doesn’t want to hear that. She just got silent for awhile then she said she was no doll and asked me if I befriended her just because she was gay and I wanted to experiment. I asked her if she was gay and she was like: “You know I am.” Then she repeated that she was no doll I could use to explore my sexuality. I said I really liked her and wanted us to have a relationship and I poured out a lot of other romantic things too I rather not want to remember.

 

Anyway she said that I didn’t know what I really wanted. That a relationship with her would mean no sex ever for me as she wouldn’t want to have it and that she wouldn’t allow me get it elsewhere as she would consider that cheating. She listed up that it would be no holding hands, no hugging or kissing in front of others, no pet names as “honey” etc, no “I love you so much” every day and a lot other nos.

 

I have been thinking. Let’s say that she indeed could see herself in a relationship if a person agreed to all that (I think she only said it to get me realize she would be a “horrible girlfriend” and she still says she only likes me as a friend but anyway). My question is the sex part. Would it be stupid to get involved with her if it meant to never have sex? Can one have a happy long-term relationship without it? And she did tell me too that if I’m bi and never been with a man I would probably later want to try it out. How true is that?

[sportsbunny]

wow. that was an interesting night you guys had. haha personally, i would assume the view on sex would change if you were in a loving relationship with someone that you trusted. but that's just my opinion on it. i really don't know... wish i could be of more help.

[Flux]

Oo, on the vodka now, lol. Horrible stuff but I can't help but love it. And she's admitted she's gay, she hasn't done that before has she? So alls good there

 

I'm guessing that if you've never been with a man, you probably would want to be at some point... It's just curiosity really, and it's all about how you feel. Personally I think sex with a guy is overrated. But thats just me

 

I And no I don't think its hard to have a relationship without sex, but thats just my opinion. But it's all about how you feel. Pet names, really overrated anyways. (you could just call her 'E', it would confuse the crap out of her but it wouldn't qualify as a pet name haha)

 

And I'm inclined to agree with sportsbunny, her opinion may change in a relationship. Just don't force it or anything

 

But I think you should follow your heart. You'll never know what its like unless you risk it.

[stellastrawberry]

Given the number of times she has kissed you even before admitting that she is gay, including making out with you, I can't imagine that once she was in an actual relationship she would be able to hold onto her no sex stance for long. She can barely contain herself as it is!

[aquatic]

I began telling her really stupid daft things, it did, I suppose, seem like a good idea in the moment, but now thinking about it makes me cringe

Don't be too hard on yourself. I think it's actually a good thing as it strokes her ego. This assures her that you are not befriending her out of pity or want to experiment as per her constant paranoia. But you know, maybe try not to overdo it (constantly declaring your love) so she won't feel pressured; keep it slow and easy

 

LOL, that's a long list of no's. As much as I think it not really something she'll stick to once she's madly in love with you, I feel you two shouldn't get into a relationship yet. Though she really likes you, it seems you like her more than she does you and bending to her "conditions" might be unfair to your needs (not unless you're willing to test it out, but it might lead to frustrations and fights because she can always say you knew how she was before you got together). But if you let what's growing between you two grow some more and, who knows, maybe it will reach a point where it is she who will want to be exclusive with you, work on her intimacy issues and cross off some of her conditions. Ideally, you two meet halfway, right? Does that make sense to you?

 

she did tell me too that if I’m bi and never been with a man I would probably later want to try it out.

IMO, it's just as probable as you falling for someone else, regardless of gender. So, to ensure this won't happen, she better make sure you're a happy camper And vice versa, of course.

[speakslow]

I have read this thread through over some time. I have to ask the question..how can E not come around if you both give it a shot!?! Look how far she has come already, honestly, I think its crazy and cute how she keeps coming back, and she does for a reason, maybe she can't stand to lose you! Its up to you want to continue to pursue her, and...ride the roll-E-coaster, haha lame joke

 

I think every time she talks about how she would be a horrible gf and she won't do this and that and this, tell her you think she would be great because she already makes you happy, and let her know its okay and no rush, and then as hard as it may be, try your best not to get too impatient, its clear it takes her a little longer to be comfortable with changes. I really think she wants you in her life whatever happens though! It may be something like she may be scared to get too invovled with you because she is afraid if anything goes wrong you will leave her!

[Wayfara]

Maybe she won’t stick to her no sex stance when she’s in a trusting relationship but due to how very disgusted she gets by just kissing maybe sex really is something she never could do or would be comfortable with. Knowing that, is it a good idea to continue pursuing her? As it is now I feel I want to be with her badly and if it means no sex okay, I don't want to pressure her to things she doesn't want to do. But then maybe I would be fooling myself with saying that I can manage without it in the long run.

 

I'm guessing that if you've never been with a man, you probably would want to be at some point... It's just curiosity really, and it's all about how you feel. Personally I think sex with a guy is overrated. But thats just me

 

I used to be bothered for being inexperienced but I haven’t been able to bring myself to do it in the past even though I really tried to persuade myself. So even if I wanted to try it out, as she says, I would probably not be able to do it anyway, lol.

 

It may be something like she may be scared to get too invovled with you because she is afraid if anything goes wrong you will leave her!

 

Yeah she really thinks that all relationships are doomed to failure. With that view I suppose it would be natural for her not wanting to get too involved. One of her other reasons she says she doesn't want to have sex is that it would be pointless to have it when one is soon going to soon dislike the person one will have sex with (when that person becomes the ex). She can be so very cynical sometimes that it is almost comical.

 

bending to her "conditions" might be unfair to your needs

 

Well hugging and kissing in front of others I can live without, and the pet names too. Holding hands I haven’t done that so I don’t know if it’s something I would enjoy. As for verbally express the affection that is something I would want to able to do and it would be nice if she would do it too. But maybe that would be too much to ask for, I think it took her a lot of effort to say that she loved me as a friend. But as you say ideally she would want a relationship with me too and meet me halfway. And she hasn’t really given me any hope yet as she has maintained that she only likes me as a friend the whole time. But if it indeed reached the point she would want a relationship with me I can’t ask for the unreasonable from her and I figure that I would probable have to bend to many of the conditions if I really want a relationship with her.

 

she's admitted she's gay, she hasn't done that before has she?

 

Yeah it’s the first time she admits it.

 

you could just call her 'E', it would confuse the crap out of her but it wouldn't qualify as a pet name haha

 

Lol, I would like to see her reaction if I called her that. Would a one letter nickname be weird?

 

Though she really likes you, it seems you like her more than she does you

 

Sometimes I think that if she only met someone she liked and trusted more than me she would just forget about her issues and fall in love. I suppose in that case what I should feel would be happiness for her but it would be hard when I want her. Do you know any good method to make her fall madly in love with me?

[Pocket Rocket]

Sometimes I think that if she only met someone she liked and trusted more than me she would just forget about her issues and fall in love. I suppose in that case what I should feel would be happiness for her but it would be hard when I want her. Do you know any good method to make her fall madly in love with me?

 

Ah, the million dollar question everyone wants to know the answer to! Unfortunately you can't 'make' someone fall in love with you, but if she does have at least some feelings for you then it's a matter of patience and gentle persuasion, but there's no guarantee and your efforts could come up fruitless with respect to romance. However you seem to be doing the right things, caring for her, worrying about her, sweet gestures, and being kind to her. Don't betray her trust or she may shut off forever (though I'm sure you know that already).

 

It's clear you care really deeply for her, but you need to think very hard about where you stand whether she says yes or no. A platonic relationship can work but it's hard because if both of you don't feel the same way it can get very frustrating and things can get pretty sour. Be prepared to compromise.

 

For the moment you don't need to worry about sleeping with men, you're still young and it may or may not happen. Think about it like this - a heterosexual person knows they're hetero even before they have sex - in a similar way, people who are bisexual, whether they are sexually or emotionally attracted to both sexes (and not even necessarily in the same way for each), know they are bi but can spend their entire lives with people of just one gender. Do what works for you.

 

I'll give you one piece of advice a friend gave me once - give out of love, not of expectation. It's hard to be around someone and be clinging on to dear hope because of your expectations, don't become a prisoner to them. Yes love her, but only for the sake of loving her, the rest will unfold eventually.

 

I don't know if I've said this before but you seem like a great girl and E is lucky to have you as a friend, as you are lucky to have her too. Even if things don't work out with E, I'm sure you'll find someone special, though in my heart I hope it's E, you guys are great together

[Flux]

I agree with pocket rocket, I hope you and E do get it together

 

I think she already is madly in love with you, shes just not comfortable with it yet... I mean she told you she loved you though she did say as a friend. I persoanlly don't believe she just loves you as a friend, especially now she's actually admitting to bieng gay

 

I dont know if I said this in my last post or not, but if you want a relationship with her go and get one. Then let it all follow. She can't lock herself in forever... She'll try to but she can't lol

 

And she said she'd be a rubbish girlfriend, well thats for you to make the decision, not her

 

Plus have you spoken about it more? I suggest another bottle of vodka (NOT so you can get her drunk and have your way with her) Just be because its the only time you ever really talk lol..

[Wayfara]

I don't know if I've said this before but you seem like a great girl and E is lucky to have you as a friend, as you are lucky to have her too.

 

Thank you. It isn’t always I feel like a natural good person. When I cried due to the news of my grandfather’s death it surprised my mother saying that she didn’t think I would care, made me wonder what she thought about me. Sometimes I think she has this idea that the greater the mood swings a person has the bigger the heart, person with big mood swings = a person with a heart of gold (like my father), a person with lesser mood swings = shady, calculating, a possible serial killer. Well I’m probable not very fair to my parents now, lol.

 

I suggest another bottle of vodka (NOT so you can get her drunk and have your way with her) Just be because its the only time you ever really talk

 

And I who was thinking you were giving me a free pass here lol, kidding.

 

I have spent a lot of time with E these latest days as my father is sobering up and is in an angry/depressed mood at home. I had a sleepover at her place during the weekend, it was fun.

 

We had an evening with some more vodka a few days ago. We talked about our parents (she about her mother and I about my father) and she told me that she one time had complained to her mother about her mother’s boyfriend’s sexual comments about her but that her mother only had teasingly said that it was cute how E had a crush on the boyfriend and E didn't bring it up again as she didn’t feel that her mother believed her but only thought she said it of plain meanness to break up her mother’s relationship. E was rather talkative and told me while tipsy that she thought that something could be wrong her and confessed that although the idea of normal sex was utterly disgusting the idea of making love was even more appalling to her. She said something in the line that the mere word gave her shiver over the overly sickly sweet emotions added to the copulating. Then she said that it wasn’t what she would have settled on intellectually as sex should have been the more disgusting of the two but that she could stand reading about people having sex but that when she read romance novels with people making love she just wanted to puke.

 

Today we were in her bedroom and I threw a pillow on her and that lead to a pillow fight which ended up in wrestling and I got caught in the moment and I gave her a peck. Well she just backed off from me and said that we would try to be better friends from here on. Rejection always hurts. She probably saw my face as she said she was sorry for all the past kisses as those should never had happened and although I was the one she liked the most she wasn’t in love with me. She said she wanted us to put this romance thing behind us and I didn’t say anything. She looked at me for a long while then she said that if I really wanted a relationship we could try it out as long there wouldn’t be any sex or anything too corny. That it maybe could make me get that it wasn’t what I wanted and as long we didn’t do anything to disgusting we would probably be able to be normal friends again after I have had enough of it. But that if I didn’t want us to have a relationship then she didn’t want to hear anything romantic from me ever again as it was messing with her mind. I said I needed a day or two to think about it.

 

Well even if I want us to get together I suppose the right thing to do is to tell her it’s okay, that we can be just friends as she isn’t in love with me. I don’t want her to feel that she has to be in a relationship with me. But she saying that she didn’t want to hear anything romantic from me again if we wouldn’t have one, well I would still like to have that door open in case she would change her mind about me. So what do I tell her?

[JadedStar]

Do you think it is healthy for you to continue to put so much effort into someone who is so clearly pushing you away and telling you she is not ready?

 

I just had to ask the question, because she seems to be very stand offish and this has been going on for quite sometime.

 

Maybe you should get out there and try to date others? Dunno, just a suggestion.

 

As for what to tell her, if she has made it clear she doesn't love you or want a relationship, there is not much else to tell her. Just be her friend, if you can do that without getting hurt.

 

to be honest if you get out there and date others, IF she does have feelings for you, that will get her to moving really quickly. I am pretty sure of that.

 

There is a line in a song that goes something like "the more you ignore me the more i adore thee" or somethingn like that.

[Flux]

Well even if I want us to get together I suppose the right thing to do is to tell her it’s okay, that we can be just friends as she isn’t in love with me.

 

I think that doing that would be the best thing, though I do really want this to work out and you can both run off into the sunset holding hands. And you probably want that too, lol

 

I actually agree with JadedStar, if you do start dating other people (whether there men, women... goats) It would get her worked up, and might loosen her up a bit too you. Though it could have an unwanted reaction on her. This is E were talking about..

 

And it looks as though the vodka thing didn't work to well. Or you could try drinking more... God I sound like I'm trying to turn you both into alcoholics

 

Anyways keep us posted, lol

[Wayfara]

start dating other people (whether there men, women... goats)

 

Lol, well I know that looks are not everything but goats are just too hairy for me.

 

I’ll tell you what happened yesterday

 

Since I updated last time I have been at her place two times. The first time nothing special happened and I said I still was thinking on things. Yesterday I told her that it was okay, that we would only be friends as she wasn’t in love with me. She didn’t say much about it. I was in a bad mood, somewhat disheartened with all trouble at home (my father has disappeared somewhere and my mother is crying all the time thinking that he has got murdered or something). We played some chess and while we were doing that I told her about a classmate of mine, a guy who sometimes tells me jokes after class. She did ask me some questions about how he was like and so and I made it sound like I knew him much better than I did. I was really trying to make her jealous and said that he was very handsome, very funny etc and then I was upset about how little she reacted, very immature indeed. I said I maybe would go out with him and she didn’t seem to care too much.

 

Well I told her that we maybe could take a temporary break from the friendship, that I needed a time not seeing her at all dating guys and so without thinking of her. She just said “Okay, if you want that.” And I don’t know what caught me but I told her that I my feelings had already cooled off a lot and that the break would help me accelerate the process. She said that it was good. And well then I told her I was pretty sure I was straight now and that my crush on her had been a phase only to see her reaction and well if I one time have been tempted to return to my old pattern and say something really nasty to her this was the time because of her saying that she was happy for me realizing that. Well I didn’t do it but it makes me guilty that I was thinking about it.

 

In the end I was so upset that I felt like I was going to cry any minute so I said I had to go home. She asked me how long this break would be and I said I didn’t know and she was like “Okay.” Then we were saying goodbye and she said that I could come and knock on her door anytime. I was upset with myself for saying I had to go and wanted a break when I wanted neither but to take it back, well... When I had opened the door and was about to leave she grabbed my hand and she was like: “Please stay.” And she dragged me to the refrigerator and opened it and said she could cook something for me, that I only had to choose what and well I was thinking she said that as she had seen me sad so I said I wasn’t hungry and she was like: “Milk?” Yeah really trying to bribe me but I said I wasn’t thirsty either. She said she would treat me better, trying to be nicer… I couldn’t compose myself, I started to cry saying that I was nowhere near over her, that I loved her but as she didn’t return the feelings I really needed a break to move on but that it would only be for awhile. She asked me again how long this break would be and I repeated that I didn’t know and she was just looking down.

 

Then she hugged me very hard and it felt very good. She said that when she thought about me she got a warm feeling in her heart but that relationships were in majority of the cases not worth it as friendships lasted much longer and that was why she had promised herself to never enter one. And then as she never wanted to have sex it would be cruel of her getting a partner as it would be expecting her partner to give up sex for her. She said she could go past all her reasons why not relationships were her thing except for the sex, as if she ever had it she would hate herself. I asked why she even bothered to explain all that to me when she wasn’t in love with me in the first place.

E: “You’re stupid. How long have we been friends?"

I said it was five months and she was like: "Nobody is in love after five months and you shouldn’t say you are either.”

 

She cupped my face and I always feel like floating when she does that. She said that she had always wondered why it would be hard to avoid gross and soppy things, that she had done it all years without problem, that she never had sexual or romantic feelings for anyone.

E: “You make it all difficult.”

She said that everything had been much easier until I wanted to hang out with her and that she sometimes preferred the old me whom she knew how to deal with. Then she said that if I went out with guys it would make her jealous and that I already should know she certainly liked me that way or she wouldn’t even consider getting me as a girlfriend. Then she kissed me I kissed her back and well we kissed a lot and made out. When we stopped there was an awkward silence until I asked what now, I was pretty confused and I was half expecting her to have regrets. She said that a friendship would probably not work when our feeling weren’t very platonic. That we could either break it up now and maybe try to be friends when I had a boyfriend or if I thought I could live without sex and saw a future with her we could get together. She said that I was the only person she could imagine having a relationship with but that she didn’t want to make me miserable and if having no sex would make me very frustrated it was better that I got together with somebody else.

 

Well I couldn’t be happier she didn’t get any disgust attack after the kissing and she confessed she likes me too, I would be dancing around on the clouds if it wasn’t because of my mother’s crying and my father’s disappearing. Well I promised to think it through before I decided I wanted to be with her so I wouldn’t regret it later but when she finally says she likes me if I don’t take this chance I know for sure I would regret it. Maybe I’m not thinking very clear though and making an agreement with her would be willingly setting myself up for sexual frustration but then I think I haven’t got any traumas for not having had sex yet so I’ll probably manage despite my perverted mind. I just hope she won’t change her mind now, that would be typical, lol.

[Flux]

Well yay for the E thing. But I'm sorry about your mum and dad.

 

willingly setting myself up for sexual frustration

 

Your always gonna be sexually frustrated, that innevitable. No matter how much you get if any theres always sexual frustration.. And you haven't had sex yet, so it's not something you can't live without. Which could be an advantage, or I think it would be. And we don't know for sure yet that she won't change her mind, lol

 

Well, alcohol can have a mixed effect with E she can be nice one time and closed up the next. And we know that the jealousy thing hurt you more than it did her. But when you went to leave she actually showed emotion and didn't let you... I'll hand it too her, E is a pretty strange kinda girl, but we already knew that.

 

 

She kissed you, without leaving, forcing you to leave, or referring to it a disgusting... That seems like a big step... She'll fall in love with you at some point, if she hasn't already...

 

But its just a case now of what do you want to do..?

[Wayfara]

I saw E yesterday. We talked about what we would do and we decided that we would become girlfriends. It’s feels weird thinking about it, it was nothing romantic, more like we were doing a deal or having a serious talk about what would be the most appropriate label for our relationship. Then after talking it was awkward. I jokingly said that my mother would be so happy about this and she laughed. She asked me how much my mother knew about us and I told her that I hadn’t told my mother anything lately but that my mother was having suspicions on her own. Then she said that if I wanted I could choose a day and she would follow me home and we would tell my mother and get over with it. It did shock me a bit that she would say that and I asked what about her mother and she said that her mother was all for free love for everyone so there wouldn’t be any problem telling her except the embarrass so when I was feeling for it we could go and tell her too.

 

Well I said I would think of a day in the week or the next one to tell my mother and she asked how traditional my mother was, if she should wear skirt or maybe dress. I told her to show me what she had and we went to her closet. It was funny how worried she was about what to wear for that day, it’s very unusual that she talks about clothes otherwise. I told her to show me how one of the skirts looked like and when she was heading to the bathroom I told her that she could change there in the room, that look she gave me when I said that…, I told her that it had been a joke just in case. When she came back I did tease her a lot, saying that she was so cute, looked like a princess etc.

E: “Stop it.”

Me: “But it’s true, you look so sweet.”

Well she took a red colour pencil and said she would give me cute red cheeks if I didn’t watch out. I said I was sure she never would do something that cruel to me and she didn’t, she got on top of me and tickled me instead until I had to beg for mercy. When she got off me she said she had something to tell me and then she was just smiling and looking at me, it really melts my heart when she looks at me like that. But in the end but she didn’t say anything, she just gave me a hug. When I asked her what she was going to say she just said she had forgot it, well, well…

 

Now I’m thinking about when we shall tell my mother about that we have decided to be girlfriends. In a way maybe I could do it within the nearest days, maybe tomorrow while my father is gone (if he doesn’t come home before that it will say), I would rather tell my mother while my father isn’t there because I’m sure that my father’s bad reaction would be contagious on her. But then maybe now isn’t a good time to tell her when she’s so worried about my father’s disappearance and it would be smarter to wait until he comes home. I’m getting worried about him too, he has been gone since Sunday, I’m almost sure that he’s in a hotel drinking as he has done that before but he usually calls us after a day or two but he hasn’t done that this time. Well, well I’m probably worried for nothing. Anyway any good idea on how to approach this subject to my mother so she won’t freak out too much by the news?

[Flux]

Yay for you... thats great..

 

No I don't you should tell your mother yet. Especially with the situation about your dad, it could put her into overload...

 

I don't think there is any way to cushion the blow of telling your mum. I think she might freak out regardless... sorry that I can't help with this subject...

[Wayfara]

I understood yesterday that it wouldn’t work. She didn’t directly tell me how disgusted she was but she really cried. I think it was that what it took for me to realize that all the drama we have had is an indication that we are not supposed to be together. She did get disappointed that we would break up so soon saying that her crying wasn’t my fault but then she just said if that was what I wanted we would do that. As it is we are not going to try to be friends and we are fortunate enough to not have any classes together.

 

This may sound like a bad thing but I think this is one of the few mature decisions I have done in my life. If you love someone set them free, no? I don’t want to selfishly hold on to her when the situation obviously troubles her so much. I don’t know if I have mentioned it but she asked me a couple of days ago if loving someone was the same as having a friend and at the same time wanting to use this friend sexually or if there was another component in love than just friendship and attraction. I think it pretty much sums up her issues and I don’t really know how to answer questions like that. I do have the fireworks for her but I don’t think she had for me and if she hasn’t got them yet she would probably not get them at all, I think I liked her more than she did me. I think that both E and I are pretty calm persons but us two together there is just drama. I will always have this period of my life as a sweet memory though and E will always be my first love (but hopefully not the last one).

 

About my father, he has called and he’s not hurt or anything, he had checked in on a hotel as I thought and he says he did it to see how much we really cared about him. My mother is really relieved and I’m happy too I suppose.

 

I want to thank everybody who has read this thread, and those who have responded. It has always felt good vent here when I have no other to talk these things about. And a special thank you to Aquatic for all good advice lol, and to Candy_the_confused, Maybetomorrow and Madmegz666 too (and to many others).

 

Well I got to go now, bye.

[aquatic]

I was about to do some congratulating but then your last post was kind of a surprise ending. I don't know what she cried over, so it's hard to read the situation. Just because it doesn't seem to work now doesn't mean it won't work ever. Maybe someday when she's grown into a different E. I really don't think you two will be out of each other's lives forever, even just as friends.

 

* * *

 

As it is we are not going to try to be friends and we are fortunate enough to not have any classes together.

Didn't you two just graduate?

 

Glad we were able to help you in any way.

[Wayfara]

Didn't you two just graduate?

 

We graduated from high school before the summer vacation a couple of months ago but now we are in college (or that is what I think it’s called in English). I was thinking about reading the same thing as she but I changed my mind and chose something different.

 

I don't know what she cried over, so it's hard to read the situation.

 

Sorry I was writing in a hurry and didn’t give any details. We were fooling around (it wasn’t I who initiated it). She undressed me, I didn’t try to do that to her in the beginning because the last time I tried to unbutton her shirt she just buttoned it again and stopped. But I did feel kind of exposed after awhile being the only one getting undressed so I thought if she undresses me she must be okay with me taking off her clothes too. When I tried that she just got up and she said that this shouldn’t have happened.

 

When she left the room I put on my clothes again and when I got out she was sitting on the sofa crying. I asked her what was wrong she just said “What do you think?” and the only reason I can see to why she was crying is that she was doing it out of disgust. When I tried to make her feel better she said she didn’t want anyone comforting her, not even looking at her. She was really crying a lot and I didn’t know what to say without making her angry. I said it was natural that people who liked each other demonstrated it and she said what she had done had nothing to do with showing affection.

 

I think she was very disgusted with herself and I don’t really want to be the reason she feels so bad about herself. I don’t know how many times she has told me she isn’t in love with me and I suppose that when she says that what she was doing had nothing to do with showing affection it means that when she kisses me and so she merely does it because she’s horny. As much I want to be with her, if she’s happier without me I have to let her go. I said that we could break up, that I would be okay with it. She said that it wasn’t my fault she cried and asked me if I really wanted to break up after just one day, she sounded pretty angry when she said that. But then she just said okay, that we would do as I wanted. I think that if she really had thought the break up a bad idea she would have protested a bit more.

[aquatic]

Hmmm... I think you two should talk. You didn't really get to when she was crying and both of you were upset. Don't get me wrong-- I think taking a break is an equally good idea, as trying to work this out. It's up to you, how much you're up for. I would encourage you to consider the latter, only for the fact that you two have already gone on for this long, why not try again and be certain if it's (not) gonna work out for sure.

 

I can think of a few reasons what eventually led to her crying. One, as you mentioned, disgust for the act. Another, she could have been crying about herself, what she sees as her pitiful frustrating inadequacies as a girlfriend/person; and/or an exaggerated fear of losing you as a friend and girlfriend because of it. lol, we are women. We can knot together a monumental crisis by pulling frustrations from everywhere. Talk so you'll know why exactly and what you two can do about it.

 

I think that if she really had thought the break up a bad idea she would have protested a bit more.

You didn't really give her much of a choice then. You have to be the softer, more sensitive one right now. She probably feels she's the inferior one in the relationship knowing her shortcomings, so she defers to what you want. Why not ask what she wants and what she's willing to work on about herself, with your help? Ask her what she wants from your relationship. Then you tell her your (lack of) expectations, that you're ok to take things slow. Assure her that, as before, hugs and the like are still good enough for you if that's all she's comfortable to give. If you think she loves you, but isn't in love with you-- here's a good way to see if she will grow to love you in that way. Don't pressure yourself as well. Just because you two are a couple doesn't mean things must drastically change. That's just a label.

 

Honestly, I think she's willing to change, by the fact that she dared to start a relationship with you. It may not be a fast change, but she can. At the start of your friendship, even a hug took some effort from her. And now we're talking about a much bigger step (nudity! sex! oh, her mother's forte!), so I suppose it's understandable for her to freak out, but it doesn't necessarily mean she wants out. I guess you can compare her to... uh, skydiving. You get the most horrifying nerves right before you jump. Ya just need someone to hold you hand before you take the plunge. In E's case, it's just in slow motion, lol.

 

Hope this helps

 

Okay. I really have to go finish some work now. lol.

[Flux]

I'm sorry to hear about that but I agree with what Aquatic says (smart girl that one

 

This was a really big step for E and I think she was scared and that was why she was crying so much. But as for her not putting up a fight for you, she never has. She probably is disapointed and upset about you breaking up. But instead she was just leaving it up to you, as she does a lot. She doesn't let her feelings come into play at all. Not really about anything

 

But I think you should talk, and ask what she want's, because it seems to me, E always wants what you want, and just wants to please you all the time... (though that sounds as though I'm saying your really selfish it's not what I mean)... But E has always said something like 'if thats what you want' or 'its up to you'... She doesn't really ever say what she wants... So i think you should ask her, and just talk to her about it and see where it gets you..

 

If not, I don't think you not bieng friends is a good idea... I think that your friendship should come first and foremost in the situation, it's something worth salvaging, in any case

 

But good luck Wayfara..

[Wayfara]

Maybe I'm a little prone to make drastic conclusions, lol. I’m not used to see her actually cry so I thought it was something terrible wrong going on, that she was so unhappy being with me. And it doesn’t help that whenever she’s upset she’s always defensive, it’s hard to comfort someone who doesn’t want comfort. But maybe I should go there tomorrow and talk with her (I can’t today, my father has come home and he’s a little unstable right now and my mother wants me to be around).

 

Why not ask what she wants and what she's willing to work on about herself, with your help?

 

If I ask her: “What are you willing to work on with yourself?” maybe it will sound like if I don’t accept her like she is and she could take it the wrong way. So how would I put it? Or maybe I just ask her what she wants.

 

And now we're talking about a much bigger step (nudity! sex! oh, her mother's forte!), so I suppose it's understandable for her to freak out

 

Yeah you are right, I suppose it’s understandable. I haven’t pressured her to anything sexual, but when she does something to me I naturally go along. Maybe I should tell her to stop instead so she doesn’t end up doing things she regrets.

 

it seems to me, E always wants what you want, and just wants to please you all the time

 

Yeah and I’m wondering if she said that we could get together just to please me.

 

If not, I don't think you not bieng friends is a good idea... I think that your friendship should come first and foremost in the situation, it's something worth salvaging, in any case

 

Well it was she who said she didn’t want to be friends with me. I think the reason was that our friendship wasn't platonic enough as it was before and that it would be inappropiate for us to be friends again.

[aquatic]

I’m not used to see her actually cry so I thought it was something terrible wrong going on, that she was so unhappy being with me.

Go tell her that. Tell her you just want her to be happy, but when you saw her cry, it alarmed you and this makes you feel like the relationship's a burden on E. (She'll then tell you if it is or isn't) Then like I said earlier, assure her that things don't have to go faster than before, that you're quite content to just be there for her. Though she's attracted to you, she obviously confused if she likes you as a friend or as a gf. Ask if she's re-thinking the relationship, that she might want to go back to being friends, she won't lose you. Based on her personality type, she's a black and white kind of person. The only way this will work is if you two are open with each other-- tell her that as well.

 

I haven’t pressured her to anything sexual, but when she does something to me I naturally go along. Maybe I should tell her to stop instead so she doesn’t end up doing things she regrets.

Maybe it's a good idea for you to be more conscious of pacing her. Even when it is she who initiates and you think it's going a bit fast for E's normal pace, you could give her an assuring kiss/hug and gently say "let's take this slow". If she insists, go with the flow but constantly and gently ask her if she's ok with every step she takes (whatever it is she's doing), just sort of to put checks on her "raging hormones".

 

If I ask her: “What are you willing to work on with yourself?” maybe it will sound like if I don’t accept her like she is and she could take it the wrong way.

Hee hee... don't ask that question pointblank. Your only real problem is communication. Remind her of your agreement before, that should anything trouble either of you, you will talk about it and fix it together and this hasn't changed now that you're a couple. Tell her you would like to know what and when things bother her and the only way you'll know is if she opens up. Say you're okay with whatever "limits" she prepared to offer the relationship, but you can't guess what those are, she has to let you know when the occasion arises. Ask if she's willing to do that. Tell her you want the relationship to be about her as much as it's about you two, that you just want her to be happy.

 

About your break up, ask what she really wants. Be truthful about your feelings about her and the relationship, but add in the end that, though you'd like to give this relationship a try, you are will go with what she wants. Say you want her to want to be in it, and not because she has to be in it.

 

And it doesn’t help that whenever she’s upset she’s always defensive, it’s hard to comfort someone who doesn’t want comfort.

Yeah, she's trying to put up a strong front out of pride. You have to be patient and restrain yourself from being more prideful out of revenge. Try to be the bigger person or the "nurturer" for now, she's mixed up and knows her inadequacies. It would also help that you admit some insecurity on your part, that sometimes you feel she got together just to please you, that it is a bit scary that you love her more than she does you, etc. All the doubts you have written here on this thread, share it with her. Don't be afraid to let her know that this is new territory for you as much as it is for her.

[candy_the_confused]

When she left the room I put on my clothes again and when I got out she was sitting on the sofa crying. I asked her what was wrong she just said “What do you think?” and the only reason I can see to why she was crying is that she was doing it out of disgust. When I tried to make her feel better she said she didn’t want anyone comforting her, not even looking at her. She was really crying a lot and I didn’t know what to say without making her angry. I said it was natural that people who liked each other demonstrated it and she said what she had done had nothing to do with showing affection. "

 

what she said about what she's done has nothing to do with affection worries me a bit. if it hasn't to do with affection then what does it have to do with? it surprises me how she gets "angry" whenever you try to undress her, seems to me like it brings a bad memmory to her or something. it's like she wants to show affection physically "e.g kissing you, intiating physical affection, undressing you" but something suddenly pulls her back, and it seems like a bad memmory. and the memmory arises whenever you are initiating something. it's not about you, obviously she likes you so much but this thing is standing between you and her. i've noticed that if she was the "initiater"she feels secure, like she's incontrol of the situation, but she doesn't like things to be done to her, it makes her uncomfortable and even angry, it seems a bit strange to me.