Question : Yes or No

[majord23]

I chatted to a friend tonight who had been hurt a couple of years ago because of a break-up. (they were together for just under 12 months, and she 'dumped' him).

 

He told me that he has no desire for reconciliation, and no feelings towards his ex other than pity (he thinks that she is fantastic but involved in behaviour that is self-destructive).

 

Anyway, my mate is leaving the country in a few weeks and says that his ex has no idea how much she hurt him through the break-up...and now he has an overwhelming feeling that he should make his thoughts/feelings known.

 

I asked him a few times this evening if his true motivation was to get a reaction from her, but he assured me it was not.

He said that he felt as though he had played the 'nice guy' throughout, but now that it had got to the point that he would never see her again - he felt that he could be (brutally) honest with her, without having to deal with the emotional consequences.

 

I told him that he should just leave it...but he insists that he will feel better once he says what he has to say.

 

Now, I've been in a situation similar to his...and erred on the side of caution (ie saying nothing).

While there are times that I am happy that I 'took things on the chin', there are other times that I have regretted not 'speaking my mind' when I had the chance.

Y'know when you lay awake at night and think: "If only I'd stood up for myself and said....."

 

So I can see his point of view, but can also see my point of view (the one that I acted on).

I can also see regrets resulting from either action - I guess my question is this: Which is easier to deal with....regret from saying what you actually think, and leaving a 'bad impression'...OR regret for NOT saying what you actually think, and feeling like a bit of a doormat?

 

I'm all ears

[melrich]

If it were me I'd leave it. I mean no matter what he says, the overwhelming impression he is going to leave with her is "This guys still thinking about this stuff 2 years on!!??" She won't "hear" anything else.

 

I think his window of opportunity is gone.

 

There is no "win" for him in my opinion

[CarnelianButterfly]

At this point saying anything would be pointless, the relationship is over and being nasty about it will only make him look immature. I say tell him to act like an adult and move on.

[majord23]

If it were me I'd leave it. I mean no matter what he says, the overwhelming impression he is going to leave with her is "This guys still thinking about this stuff 2 years on!!??" She won't "hear" anything else.

 

I think his window of opportunity is gone.

 

There is no "win" for him in my opinion

 

Agreed mate, and thankyou.

 

I did tell him that what he had to say may have had some 'impact' 18 months ago, but would now be completely out of the blue (from his ex's perspective).

 

I think he is underestimating the effect that his ex saying "What the?" or "Are you still hung up on this?", will have on him.

 

He couldn't tell me what a 'positive outcome' would be (from his perspective)....which has me slighlty concerned.

[friscodj]

I am in 100% support of telling her whatever he "overwhelmingly" feels he needs to say.

 

I've been in a similar situation as this before and I let her have it. Same scenario, I was the "nice guy" and equated "keeping things inside and bottled up" to being "nice". This may be being nice to her but it is not being nice to oneself, nor is it being nice to carry around the thoughts of suppressed honest feelings about the reality of a situation like this. People stigmatize "letting it out" as being "cold" or "mean" but in reality all you're doing is reporting the news, i.e., speaking the truth, and cleansing yourself and potential future regret for not expressing such in the process.

 

But the bigger gain for him here will go beyond this one situation with this one woman. If he can take a lesson from this situation and speak up initially when the feelings haven't been harbored and grown to such a level, i.e., proverbially "nipping it in the bud", and letting go of thinking that nice guys don't do this, i.e., stand up for themselves and speak their minds, I think he will have more fulfilling, better balanced, and healthier relationships in the future.

 

This action of speaking his mind now will likely show him firsthand the relief that is gained from doing such. He will also likely feel a bit bad about it, dumping whatever he has to say on her at once like this, which will hopefully show and motivate him to speak up but do so before things have gotten out of hand.

 

And for her, it might sting but it will likely in time give her some insight into how she can do better in her next relationship as well. The choice to harvest some wisdom out of what he has to say will be up to her and is not his responsibility. Or she may not care. This is for him.

 

So in short, do it. If he has something to say this badly after 18 months, something needs to be said I think. I would say think on it a couple of days and see if his feelings on the matter have changed.

[majord23]

At this point saying anything would be pointless, the relationship is over and being nasty about it will only make him look immature. I say tell him to act like an adult and move on.

 

Thanks CB!

Agreed as well - if I had an ex resurface from my past and tell me my faults, I would hardly view them as someone "doing me a favour"...regardless of their intentions, there are some things you will on,y accept from certain people (and exes aren't always on that list )

 

If I can tell him that "9 outta 10 people on enotalone think it's a stupid idea", then maybe I can talk some sense into him haha

[majord23]

Wow, great post Frisco (when isn't one of your posts great? ).

 

And I guess from your post I am getting a view from HIS point of view rather than from hers. He assures me that he does not expect a reply, recognition or indeed reconciliation from his actions (words).

 

I suppose that the cynical side of me doesn't believe this to be true - maybe that is a reflection on how *I* did things in the past...looking for a reaction, despite convincing others (and myself) that I wasn't after one.

 

If I were to take him at 'face value' and believe his motivations, and his self-predicted reaction to anything coming his way as a result, I'd probably be his number 1 cheerleader. Maybe it's my own outlook/cynicism that is moulding my opinion, instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt in deciding what is best for him.

 

If he can say his piece and walk away feeling less 'burdened' because of it, then I'm all for it. Something won't allow me to see it turning out that way though....I see him either prolonging or reigniting pain.

 

I'm a kill-joy, huh?

[SarahRose]

I would say go ahead and say it.

 

I have more regrets from being quiet and being a doormat than I have had from speaking my mind.

[friscodj]

Thanks for the compliment majord, especially coming from someone of your wisdom and reputable stature around there parts!

 

Here's how I see it...

 

These are his thoughts, his desires, his cross to bear with this whole situation and if he really feels in his heart and soul he needs to say something to her, I say do it.

 

Now, I agree with you he may not be completely honest with himself about his intentions here. What matters more is the fact that after 18 months, he still feels this way. That tells me not saying something, which is what he has been doing, is not a productive means towards truly getting past this.

 

This assumes he has been holding onto whatever he has been holding onto here for 18 months. If he just started feeling like this, maybe indicating this feeling of his to be a whim, that's different.

 

At any rate, I think it is not anyone else's place to make judgments for him in his life. Your role as a friend in my mind should be to provide different perspectives on the situation and ask questions to let him figure this out in his own mind, heart, and soul.

 

I think no matter what you should advise him to sit with this a while, a few days, a week, and really think about this, where he is at with this, and what he really expects from this. He needn't provide you an answer because doing so might close him off to facing a reality within himself at the expense of appearances to a friend of his. Just ask him some deeper questions about this and tell him to think about answers to them.

 

He might come back after all this and realize he was silly in his thinking here or he might still really wants to say something to her. At any rate, I think it is important for him to decide for himself and "live or die" by his own decision with this. He'll either be set free based on getting some things off his chest, get his head kicked in and learn a lesson from this on deeper levels than anyone else can teach him based on misguided intentions, or a combination of both.

 

I just don't see how he can in anyway "lose" by doing something he really and truly believes in doing. The question is if he really believes he "needs" to say something to her. And that is the angle I think you should take with this.

[Lady Bugg]

I think it all depends on WHAT he has to say. If he needs to tell her how the relationship, or her treatment made HIM feel and or even what he's learned from it...then I don't see why it would hurt to tell her. On the other hand..if it's simply to tell her how horrible she is, to name call or place blame, then I definetely say DON'T DO IT.

I think it is possible to express yourself as long as there is no finger pointing....and I would suggest he use "I" statements...rather than "you" statements.....

Just MY take.

[mikeca]

"let sleeping dogs lie"

 

followed the same path as well.

[CarnelianButterfly]

If he does decide to unload I think its only fair for him to be ready to take some return treatment. All those emotions and things that have been going on maybe distorted with time in both their eyes, there are two views of all that happened in the relationship and his idea of rectification could very well be misguided because of his lack of action at the time it was needed eating at him.

[melrich]

he felt that he could be (brutally) honest with her, without having to deal with the emotional consequences.

 

If an ex of mine from 2 years ago rang me with this intent I know what I'd say to them. But maybe she will be a nicer person than me. Who knows.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

It sounds to me like this is really a self esteem issue for him... i.e., he not only is angry with her, but angry with himself for how he responded to the breakup when it first happened. that is, he feels he needs to reclaim the power within himself that he lost during this breakup.

 

there can be a huge therapeutic value to getting closure on a relationship, or saying everything that needs to be said, and reclaiming a sense of self esteem lost in a breakup. but sometimes it is impossible to get that sense of closure, no matter how many times we return to the source to try to get it.

 

if his true motivation is to get a sense of closure, like he has said everything he was afraid to say for the last 18 months (but that he obviously should have said a long time ago), it could help him feel like he has tied up loose ends and can move on with his life.

 

and sometimes hearing her response, whatever it is, can be healing. if she acknowledges she behaved badly and apologizes, he can feel that closure, or if she responds badly and berates him, he may have one of those 'aha' moments, when he finally realizes she is not what he needs or wants...

 

i think the downside in talking to her is encountered if he doesn't understand his true motivation, and he is looking for a particular response from her, and will be upset if he doesn't get it.

 

the best way to get this kind of thing off his chest, if he truly doesn't want/need a response, is to send a letter or email, where he has time to compose exactly what he wants to say, send it off, and be done. i see nothing wrong with that, if he truly doesn't want/expect a response and just wants to unburden himself. but if he sends a crazy, bitter, angry, or over the top letter after 18 months, he runs the risk of her thinking him a stalker, so he has to be careful what he puts into print.

 

so i would encourage him to tell YOU exactly what he is thinking of saying, and try to steer him in the direction of not being vicious, nitpicking, profane, etc., anything that might reflect badly on him in terms of looking like he is harassing her. if he is just stating his opinions and it is not a deeply personal attack on her, then i think he is an adult and should decide whether the value of unburdening himself is more important to him than just swallowing his feelings.

 

but if he looks like he is just continuing to scratch his mad spot over being dumped, or intends to verbally lambast her in a way that could be harmful to her or himself, then i would definitely discourage him.

 

but then, i am a person who would rather try to get closure with a person, for my own peace of mind, and break it off cleanly for a fresh start, but i also don't believe in dumping a bunch of blame or anger on someone else to feel better about myself.

 

i would try to determine which of those he is trying to do, and if it is just dumping blame or rage, i would discourage him, but seeking to get closure and a fresh start, then i'd say tell him to have at it.

[Wandering_Sword]

I wouldn't even bother with the mess. She left and that's all she had to "say," so take it and run with it. When we want to say something its usually to try and provoke some sort of response or thought process in that person. Otherwise, why not just post it here and let it be? She's gone and left and the guy is going away too, sometimes it's best to let things slide. This is by no means to imply that he is a doormat, on the contrary it is more of a lassez-faire attitude he should adopt.

[hjc]

I think not saying something is often easier (for both parties) than saying it. That doesn't necessarily make it the right answer.

 

He feels he needs to say something to get closure and no-one can dissuade him from that fact. So my gut feel is to let him do it, but do it in a "decent" manner. In other words, just pass the message on and know that he's done it, but not in a way that is excessively vitriolic or angry. For that reason I'd suggest he write it down in a letter; it'll have much more impact when delivered that way (if indeed it gets that far because frankly the catharsis may come from writing it down) and he can phrase it in exactly the way he wants. Words often tumble out of people's mouths too quickly and they don't say what they mean.

 

So in short, I think he should reflect about what he wants to say and write it down. Then write a letter..and then think long and hard about whether or not to send it.

[comfyshoes]

I'm kinda having feelings about telling the devil woman with no soul just how i feel and what she did to me. Bottom line is that it won't change a thing. i know in time i will let go of all the emotions i had/have surrounding her and i can't run the risk of letting her hurt me again in any way.

I had the urge to send her something lasy night but i posted it in the getting back together forum in the NC challenge section.

She knows what she did to me. She did it over and over again. She's moved on now anyway and is in the process of breaking up some young girls relationship (with kids involved). I'm beginning to see that even though i may still have feelings for this woman now, she cost me a lot in many respects and that i had a lucky escape.

I doubt i wil ever actually tell her just how i feel about what she has done to me, just post it here somewhere until i get it out of my system.

That's how i think right now, but as anyone who has read any of my posts knows my mood changes daily! She messed me up good!!

 

shoes

[Me and myself]

I believe your friend must do what he needs to feel better. If he feels the need to send her a letter, he must do it.

Of course it would be desireable if he had done it 18 months ago but, you know....we are always learning.

 

I've done it last week, after one month of NC (with the help of friscoDJ, thanks mate! ). In my first letter I pointed her my finger but then I send a second one, after her reply, on which I assumed my "guilts" in the relationship. I was looking only to myself and I was "brutally" honest with her. I felt some mixed up feelings after send it, I felt guilty and angry 'cause I've put myself in a weak position...but you know, who cares about being in a weak position? I was really proud of myself for being able to be so up-front with her and told her things she might not accept easily. By telling her what I did, who knows if she feels the motivation to look for the relationship as I did and find her own "guilt"?

And you know what? In a certain way, that's what happened because after she confessed me that she never had moved on from her last relationship, which was something I was suspicious about during the relationship and that she has always denied to me.

But if your friend just want to blame her for what happened, he can do it also, in a constructive and helpfull way for her. That way, he can help her and, if that's a concern of his, change his "weak" position (if he sends a destructive letter) into a stronger position (by making her feel that he cares but can´t stand it anymore).

About the reply she might send...who knows about it? Nobody knows...he must be able to cope with the outcome of it, no matter what it is. But, in the end, I strongly believe he will feel very relived...at least I did.

[majord23]

It sounds to me like this is really a self esteem issue for him... i.e., he not only is angry with her, but angry with himself for how he responded to the breakup when it first happened. that is, he feels he needs to reclaim the power within himself that he lost during this breakup.

 

Wow, thank you so much for the replies - I wish I could reply to you all individually.

 

I have talked to him (via email) this morning and it seems that the crisis is over - he was a bit emotional last night (after a couple of beers) and now realises that getting things off his chest would be a mistake.

His exact words (and I quote): "Sorry for speaking a load of crap last night mate, I was being an idiot".

 

I think I've accurately extracted the sentiment from his statement though

 

I think the quote above from BeStrongBeHappy sums it up perfectly. He regrets not having said what he had to say *at the time*, and now wants to make amends.

I personally think that he walked away with his pride intact (he was dignified during the break-up).....but that feeling of being 'above it all' has turned (momentarily at least) to a feeling of being walked over. He thinks (or thought last night) that he had let her get away without so much as a harsh word - in relation to how she treated him during the break-up.

 

I have to admit that I lost a bit of objectivity last night - I have handled my last break-up similar to the way he has handled his....and the more angry he got about his situation last night, the more angry I became about mine. This thread was as much about calming myself down as it was getting him some advice

 

Thanks again for all the thoughtful posts, from both points of view - I really appreciate them and I've passed on the website address to my friend, so hopefully he'll read it.

[Rosie007]

I've heard the saying: a feeling unexpressed is a feeling buried alive. Here are some other ways I've found this idea "expressed" on the Internet:

 

We force our unexpressed feelings into the unconscious where they remain buried alive.

 

When the feeling is buried alive, it never finds its own life. ... unexpressed or buried feelings can actually cause serious afflictions, such as alcoholism (addiction) and cancer (physical illness) and depression (emotional illness).

 

It is difficult for her to really feel the pain that is buried inside.

 

We are born as wild, free-feeling and spontaneously expressive beings but ... our unexpressed feelings into the unconscious where they remain buried alive.

 

 

It's important to speak up and say what's what, keeping in mind that things don't have to be said in a hateful way. I believe this is called communication.

 

 

With all the anger I have about my ex (I'm currently taking the NC challenge), I never once said to him "you're this way" or "you are [something vicious]. Instead I've limited my feelings to his behaviors and how they made me feel.

 

After seven months of dating, when Rex told me via IM that he was going to start sleeping with another, I didn't reply "I can't believe what a **** *** **** ***** **** ***** **** you are" [asterisks mine]. Instead, I focused on I can't believe what you just did, how amazingly insenstive you're behavior was, etc.

 

 

There is a poem called, "Dorcas Gustine" that I've long remember from the book "Spoon River Anthology" by Edgar Lee Masters.

 

I was not beloved of the villagers,

But all because I spoke my mind,

And met those who transgressed against me

With plain remonstrance, hiding nor nurturing

Nor secret griefs nor grudges.

That act of the Spartan boy is greatly praised,

Who hid the wolf under his cloak,

Letting it devour him, uncomplainingly.

It is braver, I think, to snatch the wolf forth

And fight him openly, even in the street,

Amid dust and howls of pain.

The tongue may be an unruly member—

But silence poisons the soul.

Berate me who will—I am content.

 

 

And so, I'd rather pull the wolf out from under the cloak, rather than suffer in silence. I don't think suffering in silence is heroic or healthy.

 

Perhaps it should be mentioned that I was an abused child, who was not allowed to speak up. I had to bury most of my emotions and words. I've learned to err on the side of saying too much, because my tendency is to say too little.

 

Naturally, everyone is different, and what's works for one person may be the downfall of another. If your friend tends to err on the side of being silent, I'd say he should let 'er rip!

 

-Rosie