There is no hope for the ugly, shy guy

[shikashika]

kevin... you asked for people's opinions...

 

It sounds like such a stupid cliche ... but its true... positive things happen to positive people..

 

Even if I met the smartest, hottest, kindest guy in the world and he began the woe is me song... i wouldn't be bothered to listen.

 

I'm not compassionless... but I'm not going to give out sympathy to get you going because I don't think that works either..

 

There have to be things you enjoy... Gym is just an example... but i do think doing something active is important.. you only get one body.. and you complain you don't like the way you look.. so why not do something about it!

 

 

you are still saying 'things come easy to good looking guys'

 

uh.. no they do not.. I not plenty of hot single guys who are my friends... and there are many reasons they are single... their issues... their insecureness..

 

i see plenty of *ugly* guys who have girls hanging off their arm..

with an attitude like yours no one is going to want to hang around..

 

You dont' like tough love... but it seems you don't want to do the hard work to meet the girls! True, some peopel find starting conversations easier than others... just like some people can pass Math without studying, some people can fix a computer without the manual.. everyone has their talents

 

Get out there, do something you enjoy... and you'll be much happier!

[Kevin T]

I say that things (like getting dates, for instance) come much easier to good looking guys than to ugly ones. Of course.

 

Do you honestly wish to contend that and say that's never the case?

[Ellie2006]

Hi again Kevin,

If I may ask: so what do you think will resolve this issue for ya?

a) Finding someone

OR

b) Finding a way to NOT be jealous about PDA-ing couples

OR

c) Finding a way NOT to feel rejected (?) by beautiful girls you meet?

 

For me, ideally, it would be, of course, finding someone to be with BUT I think I could be comparably content if I could find a way to be happy w/ myself, happy w/ my life, regardless of whether or not I have that "someone" in my life.

 

As of now, I am trying to get my "dream job" and if I am able to secure it, I think I will be reasonably happy ...

 

I am not a person who easily gets bored or lonely, fortunately ...

And I do have really lovely friends ...

 

Realistically, however, I know that my dream job may NOT come my way.

 

Ach. I sometimes hate being so d*** realistic

[Kevin T]

Well, Ellie, that's you. I'm a romantic.

 

I've been alone long enough.

 

And a job isn't the end of all ends. Jobs come and go. I'm not saying it isn't important; please don't think that. But let's take me as an example. You see, I always wanted to get my Ph.D inmy field of study to get my "Dream Job." But my grades simply are not good enough, so it seems that will no longer be an option for me. But life goes on, and I'll get over it.

 

I'm not happy about it, but I can accept it.

 

And of course, A is the correct answer, for me anyway.

[Ellie2006]

Yup, I guessed as much that you are a romantic at heart!

Sometimes I can be but I think I AM more practical ...

 

I guess my logic is that I KNOW that I can't have everything ...

I guess what I am trying to say is it is more likely that I will get a job that I like than find that special someone ... and I think I can be comparably content w/ a job that I enjoy doing ...

 

Although I must admit, I was willing to give up my dream job for someone not so long ago ... Pathetic, i know i know

 

This is totally off topic and please disregard if you don't feel comfortable replying but have you really seriously considered moving to Japan?? (I am asking bc of your signature )

[Kevin T]

Yup, I guessed as much that you are a romantic at heart!

Sometimes I can be but I think I AM more practical ...

 

I guess my logic is that I KNOW that I can't have everything ...

I guess what I am trying to say is it is more likely that I will get a job that I like than find that special someone ... and I think I can be comparably content w/ a job that I enjoy doing ...

 

Although I must admit, I was willing to give up my dream job for someone not so long ago ... Pathetic, i know i know

 

This is totally off topic and please disregard if you don't feel comfortable replying but have you really seriously considered moving to Japan?? (I am asking bc of your signature )

 

I mentioned in it another reply, actually. No, I would never consider moving there. If you saw my picture, you'd probably understand. Japanese women seem to go for my "type" (whatever the hell that means.) Their standards of physical attractiveness are vastly different (somewhat scary actually) compared to the Western world. That was all I meant.

 

The other line is a quotation I liked; I'm clearly applying a little cognitive dissonance to my current situation, since I definitely do NOT agree with the statement.

 

If you'd like, I'll send it to you in a PM. I'm not posting that crap where everyone can see it.

[Kevin T]

I don't disagree with you. You make some good points. However, I sent you a PM, so that should put you to silence, no?

 

I'm very self-conscious, which is holding me back. Big time.

[Kevin T]

Thanks (except for the fact that you are a guy). lol

 

I'm just running out of steam to continue this debate, for now anyway. (I'm sure after I come home from school tomorrow, I'll be all fired up to "whine" some more.)

[AnotherBrokenDoll]

Hey well i haven't read all ten pages lol so i might be out of it a bit but i loooooooove christian boys i think they are better as they understand more then most other guys. (A generalised statement i know there are many who are exceptions!) Shy guys are cute to. Sure i'm more into the outgoing guys but i know plenty of girls who hate the outgoing ones and would do anything for a shy guy. I never judge a person on looks.. OK well i guess we all do but i mean the way someone looks wouldn't make me like them more or dislike them. Its something people can't really change. And no one is boring.

[puff.tm.dragon]

Hey no fair, I want to know what you look like too.

[Kevin T]

Fine then...

[puff.tm.dragon]

Im gonna have nightmares now =/

 

 

 

j/k

[charley]

I am doomed!

 

ugly - check

shy - check

christian - check

boring - check

 

You're a cute guy with a nice smile. I even know a beautiful young woman who's prone to liking Asian guys. She'd probably go for you. However, she lives to far from you and I want her for myself anway. Sorry dude.

 

However, ain't nothin wrong with you, except a lack of confidence if you really meant that stuff above. I think you're cool.

 

Sorry to be chasing the girl who'd probably prefer you, but that's life. Ha ha.

[lifestream]

I think it can possibly be more difficult for an "unattractive" guy to meet women. However attraction has less to do with physical attraction and more with how you make a woman feel. How you stand out from the rest of the fish in the sea.

 

If you come off as something special, she will perceive you as attractive.

[Raiden]

Kevin T: after viewing your PM I can say that frankly you don't have jack **** to worry about in the looks department, man. Why you're depressed over the way you look is beyond my understanding, compared to what other guys have to put up with (obesity, crippling acne, bad hair problems et cetera). Do your self a favour and Google some images of male celebrities/famous guys of various descriptions and you'll find that many you'll be able to equate to...

 

In fact, as soon as I get some new batteries for my digi camera (stuck at home with a cold atm, feeling especially miserable, can't be bothered to go to the store I'm going to put up some pics of myself to pose you the same question, sort of.

 

 

EDIT: Apologies if the above came over a little harsh, but I do get rather angry when people (both male and female) without any obvious physical traits that would deem them 'ugly' complain about the way they look. God knows, someone said the same thing to me once and it made me reevaluate my own body image...

[Caterina]

I don't know what planet you're from, but in mine there are a lot of hot shy people. Shyness does not come from ugliness.

[Siriana]

To OP:

Yes you're right, not being Brad Pitt and being way tooo shy at the same time minimizes your chances for dating.

 

But you missed one thing - we girls don't search for a perfect looking guy.

We want a guy who's perfect for us.

And that includes much more than your looks.

There are many things that we find attractive (and each girl finds attractive different things). But one thing is important - we all like a guy who has confidence (healthy amount of confidence). You need to work on that.

So no use in crying over your looks and your shyness.

Learn how to simile to a girl and to say Hi, my name is....practice small talk. We don't bite.

[Kevin T]

Im gonna have nightmares now =/

 

 

 

j/k

 

Ha ha.

 

Very funny.

 

I think it can possibly be more difficult for an "unattractive" guy to meet women. However attraction has less to do with physical attraction and more with how you make a woman feel. How you stand out from the rest of the fish in the sea.

 

If you come off as something special, she will perceive you as attractive.

 

Somebody's been studying up on his material. lol (Or her material, though I'm guessing you're a guy to make such a statement...)

 

I probably stand out a lot in how I look and dress, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's for the better. But I am who I am; take it or leave it.

Kevin T: after viewing your PM I can say that frankly you don't have jack **** to worry about in the looks department, man. Why you're depressed over the way you look is beyond my understanding, compared to what other guys have to put up with (obesity, crippling acne, bad hair problems et cetera). Do your self a favour and Google some images of male celebrities/famous guys of various descriptions and you'll find that many you'll be able to equate to...

 

In fact, as soon as I get some new batteries for my digi camera (stuck at home with a cold atm, feeling especially miserable, can't be bothered to go to the store I'm going to put up some pics of myself to pose you the same question, sort of.

 

 

EDIT: Apologies if the above came over a little harsh, but I do get rather angry when people (both male and female) without any obvious physical traits that would deem them 'ugly' complain about the way they look. God knows, someone said the same thing to me once and it made me reevaluate my own body image...

 

Friend, you think you come accross as harsh? lol Trust me, that ain't harsh!

 

As for why I feel the way I do, it probably has a lot to do with my past. Always been thin, always got picked on for it. I presume that has stuck with me all this time. Acne, well, that is no longer a problem for me, but a few years back... it was a HUGE problem for me. So I took charge, went to a dermatologist and got it fixed. But after having it for so long, I'm sure the crippling negative effects on my self-image are still floating around in my psyche somewhere.

 

I'm mostly depressed 'cuz I'm single, and I hate it. Then when I get passed over by women all the time, I naturally assume it's my looks which are the problem. I've already outlined WHY that is, so don't make me repeat myself further.

 

Anyway, thanks for the compliment. But I hope you can understand a little better why I'm so down on myself. (Hell, just because a guy - or two - says I look nice, it doesn't change my whole outlook. lol)

 

I'm very tempted to post something in the forum itself... but I'd just die if anyone I knew saw it!!! We can't have that!

 

But who knows? I'm very impulsive; maybe I'll have a capricious change of heart? *shrugs*

I don't know what planet you're from, but in mine there are a lot of hot shy people. Shyness does not come from ugliness.

 

I met ONE. Oh, I'm sorry... two. I've met two. (I'm not counting guys, because I don't really check guys out. Sorry.)

 

To OP:

Yes you're right, not being Brad Pitt and being way tooo shy at the same time minimizes your chances for dating.

 

But you missed one thing - we girls don't search for a perfect looking guy.

We want a guy who's perfect for us.

And that includes much more than your looks.

There are many things that we find attractive (and each girl finds attractive different things). But one thing is important - we all like a guy who has confidence (healthy amount of confidence). You need to work on that.

So no use in crying over your looks and your shyness.

Learn how to simile to a girl and to say Hi, my name is....practice small talk. We don't bite.

 

Well, at least someone agrees with me. (Yay? lol)

 

I agree with you: Confidence IS important. I'm by no means denying that. But I'm saying that the way a guy looks will automatically disqualify him from dating some women. (Ah, you say: "But you don't want those women anyway.") Wrong, I say. lol I'll decide who and what I like, for myself, thanks. (I'm answering anyone in advance who'd like to use this statement.)

 

It may not be productive or beneficial to "cry" over my looks or shyness, but at the same time, who said I was trying to accomplish anything? This was mostly a vent, and a statement about how it is much more difficult for the guys like us to meet someone great (emphasize "great" please), as opposed to the extrovert, with amazing social skills and drop-dead gorgeous looks. That is all.

 

I can small talk my way out of speeding tickets, so chatting up teh ladies shouldn't be too hard, I suppose. And no, your kind may not bite... but you can still be harmful, just the same. Some can be just... downright nasty and mean.

[lifestream]

I'm not going to lie, it IS difficult at times. But I think half the reason is because I'm aloof at what's going on around me. I'm horrible at reading signs and if a girl comes off strong I generally push her away.

 

But I've found the more you tease a girl, the more you show that you like having fun, the better. It's always better in a situation where they're in the mood to have fun too. For example if you're playful about it you could throw a snowball at her and she'll respond by trying to get back at you. Or make fun of her in a funny/teasing way, let her know you're not afraid to be funny yet say what's on your mind about her.

 

But that's also a bit of a problem with me. I have defenses, I dislike breaking people's hearts and I dislike having mine broken. I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm a romantic...so I feel that makes me more vulnerable than most.

 

I think it's generally hard to find great people though. I find you simply fall into it without looking for it. It just hits you. I'd love to tell you a story about it if you're interested

[lifestream]

Here are a few quotes that I've gathered over a few months...I think they'll serve everyone well.

 

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

 

"It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task." - Vergil (Aeneid)

 

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." - Hellen Keller

 

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love & affection."

- Buddha

 

"The tragedy is that so many people look for self-confidence and self-respect everywhere except within themselves, and so they fail in their search."

- Dr Nathaniel Branden

 

"At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvellously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

 

Everything everyone is saying here is practically an excuse, a self-fulfilling prophecy if you will. The road is long and rough, and no one ever said it would be easy, but life as spectator always seems that way! Everyone has their problems and issues to deal with. Generally if someone's life appears too good to be true, it is! We don't always have the inner strength to do this, but try your best to stop looking at yourself through the lens of negativity, rather color it with positive thinking and confidence! What more can you do? If you perceive it to be an issue, it will become an issue and infect EVERYONE around you.

[Siriana]

But I'm saying that the way a guy looks will automatically disqualify him from dating some women. (Ah, you say: "But you don't want those women anyway.")

 

No some are interested in money, so I say get rich or die tryin. heh.

Donald Trum is the living proof! Now I am just kidding.

You are little bit mistaken here. The fact is there are so many other qualites on a guy we tend to ask that stay trough all his life, and if he fits that criteria we just don't look at the looks anymore, they are not going to stay!

[Northalius]

And the most important concept--quote from Wyatt Webb--"What you give the most energy to will happen...."

 

Right on!

 

For those that think they're ugly, yet choose not to do anything about it...

 

It's like there's a wall sitting in front of you, and yelling your lungs out to get it to move out of your way; you can scream 'til kingdom come, but it's not going to budge. You must take steps to thinking about a plan to take the wall down another way, other than your lung power.

 

There're many tools sitting on the ground in front of you, near that wall, but you're so fixated on your yelling, whining and feeling sorry for yourself because big bad wall is not letting you by, that you don't bother seeing the tools beneath you... which are the keys to tearing down that wall.

 

It's true, we can be our own worst enemy! Trust me on that one!

 

Then picture yourself driving in a neighborhood; you drive by all these nice houses... and then the only one on the block you see standing out is the one with its grass growing out all different ways, two foot high weeds, bushes never trimmed, trees all gnarled and crooked; the house has holes all over the place, the roof is falling off, etc. You say "That's one UGLY HOUSE!"

 

But then I say to you "No, it's not an ugly house; it's just a house that has been neglected for so long! Because the owner doesn't care about his own house enough to trim the hedges, mow the lawn, trim the tree branches, fix the holes in his house, etc. So, it might appear to be ugly, but it really isn't at it's core, if taken care of!"

 

Get the point now? If you stop caring about yourself, you're not going to take steps to improving your outward appearance; and thus your mere beliefs come true "I'm ugly... I'm ugly... I'm UGLY!" And then one day it'll become so, because YOU LET IT!

 

A tree only looks good if it's roots are healthy, by getting a good amount of water. What you're doing, is neglecting your tree of that water, and your nightmares are coming true: The tree is dying, and not so great looking... because you let it happen!

 

And a good start, is to see a counselor about it! Speak with them, and make a plan on how you want to improve yourself - inwardly and outward. But, it always starts from within!

 

"Whatsoever a man thinks, that he shall become."

[Texas Star]

I agree that physical appearance has a lot to do with first impressions, but that's not everything to everyone. I'm a firm believer that there is someone for everyone.

I also agree with the many people who said that perhaps the attitude of thinking you're ugly and boring is affecting your ability to find someone. Even if I'm not initially attracted to someone, I often find myself beginning to crush on them if they are comfortable around me, share similar interests, are witty, etc. In fact, I wasn't attracted to my current boyfriend initially (not that he's unattractive, but I just wasn't into him), but his personality won me over. Obviously you are NOT comfortable with yourself, but I think that being aware of that is the first step to changing it.

A few people spoke of their own changing opinions of themselves... it's a great thing when people make a change in their life for the better. I don't have any advice for acheiving this aside from saying that everyone has something to offer. I guarantee that your sensitivity will be attractive to someone. I guarantee that someone out there will find your appearance attractive. I guarantee that someone out there feels the same way you do and wishes they could find someone like you to talk to.

Go to places you enjoy and you'll find people who enjoy the same things. Bars aren't the only places to meet people. You make a big deal of your faith... so go to church functions and meet people there. Join committees or volunteer to help serve breakfast, decorate for a function, whatever. Being "Christian" never prevented people from finding a partner with similar beliefs. Also, don't knock online dating until you try it! It may be true that there are more men online than women. It may seem awkward to have a psuedo-relationship. But there's a chance it could work for you. Why NOT put your picture up? You may feel you're unattractive, but somone might find something beautiful in your features.

Also, you talk about being rejected by beautiful women... Do you think you're overlooking women who are similar to you in favor of these shallow beauty queens? I'm not saying don't shoot for the stars, but be sure you're not excluding some women for the same reasons you feel that you're being excluded!

My main point is to just keep trying. Don't give up hope just because you don't fit the "typical" idea of beauty and you're shy. There is someone out there who will love you just as you are!

[Kevin T]

I know HOW to act with women... I just haven't been bothering to try. Mostly due to the points I've been mentioning throughout this long, tedious topic.

 

You're welcome to tell me whatever you wish. Go for it.

 

 

 

Well, I was only talking about my looks, shyness and beliefs. I didn't even touch my personality.

 

Heck, just look at the other posts: I'm sure most would agree my personality repels women more than anything! (Though I beg to differ.)

 

 

 

I'm liking what I'm hearing about the "self-fulfilling prophecy." I know how that works better than most. But I'm still not convinced that is what is happening here. Years of being down on myself don't just vanish overnight.

 

Overall though, I like the cut of your gyp.

 

 

 

I understand that. I am in no wise disputing that. What I am saying is that women will discriminate (just as us men do) against the less attractive guy. It puts him at a clear disadvantage over the more genetically blessed.

 

(Oh, it was always my plan to be rich and have lots of money. lol But... I don't want a woman to want me because I have money. I want her to accept me for who I am, not monetary wealth I own.)

 

 

 

You say, "those who do nothing about it," but I ask: What is one supposed to do about their looks? You can only change so much, you know.

 

Indeed, we oft times ARE our own worst enemy. Completely agreed, friend.

 

Nice analogy... but completely oblivious. It doesn't apply to me. Sure, as of late, I'd been slacking (a little) in my appearance. But as a rule - before that - I was working out often, I went and got my face fixed up (acne), I take care of my hair and teeth, I dress well, I smell nice, I bathe frequently. Overall, it would take me nearly an hour to get ready in the morning. I put out A LOT of effort to look nice, yet it got me NOWHERE! That is what started this mess. It was like putting an expensive paint job over your '73 Pinto. So, even taking great care in one's appearance doesn't fix everything.

 

The problems that exist are about the things I cannot change, not the ones I mentioned above, which I can change. You are erroneous.

 

I'm off counselors for a bit. After that last one, I'm letting you internet people fix me up. lol (I know, it's far beyond anyone here's ability, but kudos to those who try!)

[Kevin T]

Can't be someone for everyone; the gender population is 5/4 female, so it's impossible. (Perfect argument for the lesbian movement, but that's a discussion for ANOTHER topic - preferably not one of mine. lol)

 

Attitude isn't as transparent as one's looks. Everyone sees what you look like, but your heart isn't something people necessarily can see (at least, right away). I'd just like a fighting chance at getting somewhere with the ones I want, but I don't think that's possible. Feeling insecure about my appearance, holds me back from taking risks and bothering with women (least, the ones I'd fancy).

 

Unlike others, I may be sensitive inwardly (oh, I am!), but I learned a long time ago to stop wearing my heart on my sleeve, and be aloof and stoic. I don't display that side of myself until I know a person can be trusted. So most would never guess I'm like that. Defensive mechanism, no doubt.

 

You make a lot of nice guarantees. But the only thing I think of when you guarantee such things is: I guarantee (to you) that they will be someone whom I am not interested in. Has happened before, and doubtless, will happen again.

 

Tried church... met no one after years. Besides, using church (in effect , God) to meet women is callous, contemptible and... just downright despicable. I can't think of something more awful. You go to church because you love God, not because you're trying to pick up chicks. Though you are right in that I need to get my butt back over to church. I miss going, to be frank. I would beg to differ on one point: Being christian certainly hinders one from finding a suitable mate. It may not totally destroy one's chances, but it does not help. It only makes one more picky. And combined with bad looks, shyness, and a poor personality, it leaves one with little hope.

 

I can knock online dating. Tried it; went abysmally. So I'll bash something I have no use for and that I don't believe in, all I like, thanks. lol

 

Ooh, your last point reeks of counselor-itis! She said, essentially, the same. "You're not good looking enough to get someone you like, so take who you can get." Ouch. Now THAT is a harsh (but well-needed) blow to my self-esteem. But you're doubtless right. I imagine the only reason why I stopped going to that lady was because she hit the nail right on the head, by telling me something I knew was true... but didn't want to admit! I wonder why I refuse to accept this...? I guess it's because I view it as "settling" and to play a broken record: I'd rather be alone, than settle for someone I don't like. So, I suppose this is a self-inflicted wound, huh?

 

Nevertheless, thanks for the encouragment. You sound sincere and I appreciate it. Thanks.