Mistreated Her..Is She Gone For Good?

[TijuanaJones]

Well, I never tried space since the break-up. I'll try it out for at least a bit and see what happens. I need her to start seeing that I am respecting her.

 

If you give her just a couple of days of space and contact her again, you will find yourself at square one... again. Be strong, be positive, let her look for you when she is ready, and keep posting. If you feel the urge to break NC, I recommend you consult it with the people here first. Have you joined SuperDave's No Contact Challenge yet? thats a good way to find support...

[GoingForIt_77]

See Tijuana, I used to be on here. You can consider me a Veteran poster of sorts. I just rejoined as a new member, because I am back to square one. I am SO aware of NC. In fact, I was the first person to talk about it in 2002 when this site was just starting up....

 

I believe that NC serves a great purpose and that's to regroup one's emotions and to get stronger, so you don't MESS up in your ex's eyes and say the wrong things. In other words, it's done so we can lose that emotiona, clingy and overly dependent that REPELLS our ex's.

 

I see nothing wrong with Contact as long as it's done wisely. One must become aloof and give emotional fulfillment, while seeking nothing (remaining independent).

 

Attraction is based on all of those factors and we all possessed them in abundance when we met our ex's for the first time. It's not secret that we need to get back to OURSELVES in order to have any chance of offering our ex's anything substantial and worthwhile and that's what NC does for US.

 

I am not denying the fact that it has a healing effect on our ex's as well. It doesn't necessarily bring down their defenses persay, but they may be more open to us after we have demonstrated that we CAN live without them. When they stop seeing us run after them, we immediately take the carpet form under their feet and we are revered as being more secure in ourselves, HOWEVER, to believe that our ex's will miraculously chase us is FALSE hope, because for the most part, THEY WON"T. They left us for valid reasons. If we want them back, we must YES, correct those issues, but we need to be able to show them those changes and thereforeeee, I am a firm advocate of re-initiated contact when you get to a point where you are strong enough to not be bothered by the outcome of your efforts, because not caring is what usually has them turn their heads in the end, isn't it? We care TOO much now. That is the problem. We demonstrate low-esteem and they are turned off by that.

[Lily04]

You want to keep in touch because you love her, but you also feel vulnerable now, and like you want to prove that you've changed already for the better. That takes time, don't force it.

 

I sincerely think that you should give her time. Don't show her the 'new you'. Show her after a few weeks when she's in a better frame of mind and can trust you.....but it will take time and she ultimately may not even be able to regain the trust she once had. You have to accept that. You don't want to accept it, however, so that is why you are keeping in touch with her and convincing yourself it's 'just friendly emails' which she wants, but really shouldn't want so soon. It's like when you break up/go through a divorce...what's the point of breaking it off if you're just going to keep in touch anyway? You don't want to acknowledge that things have changed, but they have.

 

Please just give her time and don't contact her for a few days at least. Make it a challenge for yourself, to see if you can do it....I know you can.

 

Lily

[GoingForIt_77]

Thank You Lily,

 

In regards to corresponding even by email, well, that's also very much on her terms, because even though it was HER who said we can do that, she's not even replying to my emails and I believe that after having visited her today at her work (unannounced and hurting her in the process), she has now blocked me on her MSN... I don't believe that she has FULLY eliminated me just yet, however, her boundaries are definitely set. NO phone. No visits in person. Email was acceptable and until last night so was MSN...

 

You see, I know she still loves me. That's in the way she looked at me today and in actuality even based on how she is eliminating me right now. She can't deal with me, because she is still hurting VERY MUCH and she wants to feel the FEAR and keep it on the forefront right now. She wants to keep her guard up. She really loves me, but sees now that I taught her to stand up for herself and so what she is doing now, is doing just that. She now feels she deserves more than being treated well most of the time and she does, but she is in a frame of mind that she doesn't WANT to look past it and seems that she is growing more resentful towards what I did and that is really clouding the good feelings she has for me. That could be because of continued attempt at trying to keep in touch, which she has YET to say NO to fully, in fear that maybe she would be making a mistake by cutting all ties, cause that could be a potential mistake, OR, she may be keeping this sliver of communication open, because she feels it's what "I" need and not her and seeing she still loves me, she doesn't want to deny me of that, even though she's really giving me NO attention. She won't talk to me on the phone. She asks me to leave when I visited her and she is now not even replying to a simple email.

 

It could be she also is angry at me... Will me staying out of her way diminish that anger. Like if I play a disappearing act for a bit? Have I been crowding her too much since Wednesday and this is NOT allowing her to look at the good?

[GoingForIt_77]

Also, what she is hoping for, is that her LOVE will go away and she feels as long as her and I are in contact that the love is undeniable and SO, she is depriving both her and I of it, so that she HOPES or WANTS it to go away and then once it's gone, she could move on. I don't think she is READY to move on just yet, because of the love, but pushing for more contact, WILL push her further away, which will speed up the process of her moving on.

 

If I stand back, play it cool. Give her space, what will happen. Will she be able to get over that love as she wants to? Does it work that way? She seems to want to hold on to the bad things now, because it's THAT and only THAT which keeps her from falling back in my arms and conceding to her feelings for me.

 

It seems like lose lose here. She is NOT open to a future, even if the love is there and even if what she saw come out goes away, BECAUSE now she is angry that I did THAT to her and not so much the fear that it could have again....

 

Thoughts?

[GoingForIt_77]

I know I'm posting a lot here, but this feeling doesn't go away that my ex is SCARED to give in to her good feelings now and is scared that if we have a good conversation, or if we talk and share the love that's still there, that she will not be able to stick to her plan, because of her conscious decision.

 

So, in essense, she is depriving herself of good feelings to focus only on the bad, so that it will be easier to stay away from me and NOT get weak and give into her feelings of wanting to even reach out...

 

Is there a way to allow her to not feel so guilty in giving into her feelings? Is the fear of her being weak and going against what she said (knowing she allowed herself to be hurt by me) stopping her, or is it the fear of getting hurt again stopping her?

 

In the meantime, love is STILL there on both our parts, but being denied, in hopes that it will DIE. Will NC help her love for me die, or will it strengthen it, by me giving her space, so she can focus on the good to, without me reminding her of it all the time?

[GoingForIt_77]

Ellie, I completely understand what you said and I do agree...

 

Having stayed in a relationship with me the way I was going was NOT healthy for her, even though there were amazing time and lots of happiness.

 

However, I am going for help now. Am I helped at this stage? Of course not.

 

I once dated someone who I loved with all my heart (as my current ex does), who was VERY abusive towards me (verbally, emotionally and physically as well). It KILLED me to be treated that way by the one I loved.

 

I DID break up with her, as much as my now ex has broken up with me....

 

During that time, I loved her and missed her. I told her if she wants to have any future with me, she needs to get help. She showed signs of remorse and hurt for hurting me. During the time she was getting help (I kept in very minimal contact with her (exclusively by email)....I did give her HOPE during this time, because I DID love her and I realized that was she had done to me was out of her control and that's why she was seeking out help.

 

Needless to say, she never sought out help and was just as bad as she had been before and I made many mistakes, to the point that after SHE would hurt me, I would have to make her come back to ME....

 

It was dysfunctional and it broke me down....

 

NOW, where I am at with my current ex is a very similar place from the standpoint that I KNOW I hurt/scared her. NO, I have very little to NO control over my actions and that is why I am seeking out help, which I am sincere about (unlike that former ex of mine)...Am I asking her to support me through this? I tried, but did not demand it. Is she giving me hope if I get better that she'll reconsider? No. If I do start changing will she be able to see past what I DID to her? Right now it seems like she doesn't WANT to overlook it and mostly because "I" taught her to never take sh%t from people.

 

I am NOT begging her to come back. We both know that love is there. She is hurting now. She is staying away for various reasons. I made her have to go away, but as I see it, it is my CURRENT actions that will have a large contributing factor on how far she goes away from me (without wanting to check in, to see where I am at (with my progress of course))....

 

If she not only sees changes in me, but FEELS them and can feel safe in my presense, in whatever limited amount of contact we have, can this allow her to be able to further see past what I "DID" to her?

[Dako]

The following is meant constructively, but may sound harsh.

I realize you're hurting, and rehearsing many methods to regain somone special.

I just re-read your OP and something puzzles me.

 

Your relationship went off the rails because you were overly critical, controlling and demanding. She must've been compliant up to a point, and ended it when she couldn't bear any more.

In all your subsequent posts, you seem to be a hands-on controlling sort of person. You appear to believe that if you do just the right things and use the best strategy, she'll want you again. You counter any suggestion of a hands-off approach without hesitation.

 

Have you considered that your personality may overwhelm others who give an inch, so you take a mile?

 

I'm even more convinced you should back off and stop trying to make her do anything at all.

You've already done that, and it drove her away.

[GoingForIt_77]

Dako, I don't know what to respond to that other than you are 100% right.

 

The proof is in our MSN conversation. I was supportive. Whenever she would blame me, I accepted it. Slowly her walls came down right before my eyes...

 

Not working at changing her (in this case her decision) always led her to be more at ease with me and just plain allowed her to be HER...

 

I'm most happiest when I don't control, but as she once put it, when things go well is when I push/pick.

 

I'm sure she doesn't know where I am at right now... Yes, she knows that I am being very hard on myself, but what she is not expecting is to see me respect her, because very little in what I did since Wednesday was respectful...

 

I do still love her and would love to have a second chance with her (on my road to getting help) and I will not lie about that though.

[GoingForIt_77]

Here is a REAL MSN Conversation someone close to me had with MY EX LAST NIGHT. I just quoted her end of the dialogue and NOT the questions that were posed. You'll see where she is coming from now. This is FAR different than the MSN conversation her and I had the previous night:

 

he didn't go because he was upset. he showed up at my work today unannounced and I made him leave

 

he showed up at my appartment not long after I broke up with him and he called me too many times to count the following day from about 7:30 in the morning until 10pm at night, along with sending me a few emails as well, so yes he's chasing and I can't handle it.

 

things just weren't always as good as they should have been. he has a bad temper without the ability to always have control over it.

 

loved him and I still do - my feelings were never in question here. I just decided I needed to put myself first (something HE taught me to do).

 

I don't deserve to be with someone where I feel scared most of the time. he's the one who gave me the confidence to believe i myself and to protect myself when I need to, but I don't think he thought I'd end up protecting myself from him.

 

well he's been losing it since shortly after we started dating.

 

the only difference is he got more aggressive. other than that he seemed to be getting better emotionally the longer we were together.

 

note that I said 'seemed' his demons apparently still came out because he'd still yell at me and pick fights and put me down. and he'd still overreact to things and become aggressive, but it still seemed better other times because the great times were just amazing.

 

but that doesnt justify having treated me the way he did. it may explain it but nothing justifies it.

 

that bathroom is also where he was most aggressive, or 'violent' i suppose i should say. not with me (thank god) but in front of me.

 

I'm staying in contact a bit through email but I can't do more than that. I'm doing my best right now but I can't do talk with him on the phone.

 

yes. and I talked with him on msn last night although I didn't want to.

 

I love him with all my heart, but there's too much pain and hurt and fear there that I didn't deserve. after a lifetime of it the man I love isn't supposed to give it to me too.

 

if I want to stop hurting and if I want to eventually move on then I need to let that love go. As much as I don't want to, I have to and using that love to nurture him and help him heal will only make it that much harder for both of us after to let go

 

I'm not looking it at it as a relationship now because there isn't one, but the feelings do exist

 

he always questioned my loyalty, my love, my devotion, my honesty, everything. he questioned who i was as a person which is what hurt the most because I felt he knew me better than anyone

 

but the fact that he showed up there wasn't something good and the gazillion phone calls weren't either and nor was showing up at my work today

he may have been soft but having him do those things still hurt

 

explaining things as best as he could and apologizing for hurting me. it not the content of everything so much as how it was done. it was overwhelming and scary to be bombarded like that

 

and then after last night having told him I wasn't even ready to speak with him on the phone having him show up at my work today it was too much

 

I'm already in my last 2 weeks at this job and I'm under other stress as well and it was just so painful today

 

but let me tell you he scared me more than that man ever did (the man who raped me) and that's a very scary and alarming thing for me

 

I have put aside some of my hurt, that's why I was able to talk to him last night on msn and email him back. more than that I cannot do but I will keep those channels open for a while longer with him. at least the emailing.

 

Right he’s blocked on my MSN. I'm not ready to talk to him like that again. especially after him being at my work today. When I’m ready to unblock him I will.

 

this is all rather overwhelming along with other things in my life and I'm only going to do things as I feel ready to do them. It’s the best I can do.

 

he's still the same man who hurt me and put me down and makde me feel helpless. whether he'd continue to do that isnt the issue - it's been done. it can't b reversed or taken back and i owe it to myself to not look past it, which is why I broke up with him and which is why I can't ever be with him.

 

I know he is essentially good, but that doesnt change things.

 

time won't make me go back to him and I don't think he realized that. it's still something that I needed to address.

 

if I do anything it will be tomorrow. I'm not cutting him out completely yet, im keeping emails open. it's all i can do right now

 

We had a lot of fun together, but there were just as many crappy times too. I miss the happiness. but i know that a lot of the time the happiness seemed magnified because of the other things and I miss the warmth and love and I miss the sweet dan. not the rest of it.

 

we had the most romantic new years eve but it was followed by the worst fight ever the next morning and him freaking out in the bathroom so it put a shadow over it

[jenny_mcs]

Does your ex know that your mutual friend is sending you transcripts of personal conversations? This seems like an incredible invasion of privacy.

 

I underdstand that you are hurting, but I agree with Dako's posts. You need to back off completely and let her heal in the way she wishes, which seems like without you.

 

Have you even started your counseling yet? Why don't you concentrate on that for the next few months, and try to make some real changes, and give her time to heal, and then see where things stand.

[GoingForIt_77]

It was not a mutual friend, but my sister who had this conversation with my ex yesterday night. Nothing in there anyways that she personally hasn't told me herself since Wednesday...

 

I am leaving things in my ex's court... I will continue with my therapy and until told not to, I may send her an email asking her how her grandmother is doing?" (she's dying), or good luck with her classes" (she starts school this Thursday)...

 

I will be light. I will be short and in good spirits. I will put NO pressure on her at all. I will act independent. I won't be nearly as needy as she's expecting me to continue to be, which is NOT a turn on at this stage for her...

 

If she wants to bridge the gap, then she'll have to and NOT because she is WORRIED about me (pity), but because she genuinely misses me and is CURIOUS...

[TijuanaJones]

I may send her an email asking her how her grandmother is doing?" (she's dying), or good luck with her classes" (she starts school this Thursday)...

 

I will be light. I will be short and in good spirits. I will put NO pressure on her at all. I will act independent. I won't be nearly as needy as she's expecting me to continue to be, which is NOT a turn on at this stage for her...

 

I dont think its a good idea to email her, even if its to wish her well. Look at the effect you had on her on actions that seemed good to you...

You may think your email won't put pressure on her or make you look independent, but it wont. It will make you look clingy and needy, because it will look as if you need to stay in touch with her.

 

Give her time apart, if she needs your support, she will come to you. Let her show you when its time to communicate again.

[GoingForIt_77]

The less she reaches out for my support now, the less she will need it in the future.

 

You see, because the love is still there on her part, I know she is hurting A LOT. I saw it in her eyes yesterday...

 

I believe there are two things happening in her right now:

 

1. The Desire (the hope) that I could change and be the man she loves ALL THE TIME, which would reduce, or diminish her fear, which is why she stays away...

 

2. The Desire to NOT look past what I "DID" to her and to hold on to it and use as fuel and reason to stay away and allow the love to go away in the process (move on)...

 

Those are two very different wants/needs.

 

There is also the aspect of what she REALLY wants deep down (to get over the hurt and the fear and give into her feelings she still has for me) and what she is forcing herself/convincing herself (I helped in the process) to want (to not forgive me, let go and move on)...

 

The struggle is within her. I am responsible for putting it in her. Now can my present actions ease the struggle she is experiencing within her?

[TijuanaJones]

To me it seems like you are looking for a way to justify having contact with her. In the conversation she had with your sister you can clearly see that she wants time apart. Im sorry if I sound harsh, but I think that If you cant respect her wish to be alone right now, you are killing the chances of her taking you back.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Reading what she wrote about how you have behaved towards her, and seeing your current behaviour...tells me that you actually haven't changed. You are running after her against her will trying to assert control. You repeat over and over again how YOU were the one who taught her how to assert herself...then she mentions that same fact in her email....I wonder how many times in the relationship you kept telling her "I am teaching you this" so that she actually believes it. NO, she had enough of your behaviour and took matters into her own hands...YOU did not teach her how to take control of her life.....unbearable circumstances and the last straw taught her to tap into her own sense of self-preservation. The running and chasing and crying and neediness are all classic behaviours of abusers who feel the control slipping away when their partner leaves them so they have to overwhelm the person with grand promises of changing...tugging at the heartstrings...etc.

If she takes you back, you will be right back to square one....chances are you will not feel motivated to change anymore....and the cycle will continue. That is why she doesn't want to be with you. Love is not enough. Change takes time and you have to change for yourself...because you know your behaviour is wrong and unhealthy...you don't change for other people....you change for yourself to make yourself healthy and whole. Let her go...don't contact her...you are scaring her. If she moves on, that is the price you have to pay for your actions...right now you have to continue getting help, read books on abuse and focus on fixing yourself.

[GoingForIt_77]

Thank God I did not do TOO much damage POST-break-up.

 

To recap,

 

Wednesday: (day of breakup): Went to her appartment after the final call to tell her I loved her. She couldn't talk to me (she was too broken apart).

 

Thursday: Just too many calls on my part...me not asking her to reconsider, but just asking her not to erase me completely...I was crying during most of these messages. I sent her a couple of email. I got HER first response. An email telling me she still loves me, but is too scared to give me another chance and that she can still be there in email contact only (her comfort level).

 

Friday: I waited 24 hours and replied to her email.. She went to bed not having replied to it... At 3:00am I see her on MSN (she forgot to block me probably).. I asked her if she'd like to chat. She agreed. A great hour and 20 minute conversation..

 

Saturday: Had my head in my * * * * * and went to say hi to her at her work. She cried and asked me to leave...(Big Mistake)...Sent her 2 emails apologizing (1st one making excuses for my actions and the 2nd one, saying there are none). That was 24 hours ago...

 

All in All, I was a bit in her face, but nothing HORRIBLE... I will NOT continue to push.. She didn't say NO to emails. In fact, she said it was okay both myself and to my sister, but if I push for the email thing, she will change her mind on that too...

 

Meanwhile, I am starting my help this week.

[Dateagain]

I agree that she's pretty clear in her email that its not happening for her with you...

 

I'd say respect that and figure out what the emotional trigger was for you in this relationship. I feel like its something old you've been carrying around, and it is popping up and hitting you in the face. It's hard.

 

Respect her wishes, do not contact her. She was a tactful as she could be to give you that message. Take the time to do what you know you need to do to get to the bottom of this.

 

Only after you do that work can you consider even approaching her about reviving things. Yeah, it sucks to go THROUGH it, but sometimes, it just has to be done.

 

It's good you've reached out to deal with these many feelings you have. Reaching out was a good step for you.

[GoingForIt_77]

She is definitely in auto-defense (protection mode) right now...

 

My gut tells me that she also blocked my sister after their conversation. My sister hasn't seen her online since and my ex should have been on for the last 2 hours...

 

That's fine with me though if she blocked my sis..

 

She needs to sort through her feelings and she is trying to regroup and calm herself down. She is nervous and in pain now (so am I) and doesn't/CAN'T reach out for me, even though a good part of her probably wants to...

 

As everyone on here is telling me to not do anything for a while, I still want to interpret the "email" things which she said she was "okay" with, even though she is not really replying to mine.. This confuses me, probably because she is confused and doesn't know what the right thing to do is...

 

I don't think she's ready to cut ALL ties between us just YET, however, she doesn't initiate (obviously) and doesn't even know how to respond yet either..

 

She needs time (so do I). I do believe if I send her an email with an actual question, she WILL respond, but.....

[CarnelianButterfly]

I have very little to NO control over my actions and that is why I am seeking out help

Why don't you have any control of yourself? Why do you think that you can control her (which you have very much been doing), but are totally out of control yourself?

 

When do you got to therapy? What do you talk about with your therapist? What exercises do you do to help fix this?

 

It may take you a very long time to get better, do you really feel that it would be good for anyone to be with you while you are uncontrollable? Do you think it would be a healthy and constructive relationship for a person who has been the victim of you rage to continue to put them self in the position to be that victim again?

[GoingForIt_77]

Carnelia, I understand what you are saying and the answer is of course no. I do not think it is fair to be subjected to me when I am critical/controlling and lose my cool.

 

Painting me out to be a monster of sorts is also not fair I think, because I am a good person too and she knows it and I know it. I know my actions were wrong and I know they hurt her and they scared her and this kills me..

 

Was I fully in control during those moments? No. I was weak.

 

I have been seeing a therapist for a year next month and he is a quack. He does nothing but sit there and listen and falls asleep sometimes as well...

 

I am seeing someone new (since the break-up). I took immediate action..

 

Do I blame her for being where she is now? No, I do not. Do I still want to keep in contact with her. Yes, I do. Part of me still would love to have her support through it all, even if it's from a very FAR distance (a safer place for her to be right now)..

[SarahRose]

I don't understand how you are leaving her alone when you have stalked and pestered her daily since the breakup. I'm not trying to be harsh but you have to stop it. If you had done that to me, I would have taken out a restraining order on you, especially showing up at her work place.

 

Yes you are out of control. The emails, the showing up, the trying to monitor her where abouts online.

 

I agree with the other that this is typical abuser behaviour. You are going to badger her until she gives in and you will be right back the way you were.

 

I seriously doubt this is the first time you've done this. Please get some help.

[GoingForIt_77]

Sarah, I did NOT hold a gun to her head when she spoke with me for an hour and 20 minutes on Friday night and you do NOT know what our conversation consisted of. She was calling me babe and hugs and plenty of love you's.....

 

Restraining order???

 

She broke up with me on Wednesday late after (that morning before the argument she called me 5 times to tell me she loved me).. I tried to reconcile with her at her place later that day (as we've done with each other in the past). She was too hurt to see me...

 

Thursday was the only real day that I lost control and called her too many times, YET, that same night she sent ME an email, yes, reiterating her fear and hurt, but said she will still keep in CONTACT with me via email and that she was OPEN to that. Restraining order???

 

Friday night I did NOTHING at all... We spoke on MSN for almost 1.5 hours. It went VERY well. She actually enjoyed it (probably a little too much and so she blocked me)... Restraining Order??? Stalker??

 

Yesterday... I made a mistake and went to her work... I apolized and have done nothing since (24 hours)...

 

Please don't let out your frustrations on me Sarah. I don't know what you're going through in your respective life, but I did not come on here to be put down by someone who's telling me I am responsible for putting someone else down.

 

I am respecting her. I have done nothing at all since having visited her yesterday. I know that was wrong and now she knows that I know that too... She will not see anymore of that type of irratic and scary behavior come out of me...

[CarnelianButterfly]

Painting me out to be a monster of sorts is also not fair I think, because I am a good person too and she knows it and I know it. I know my actions were wrong and I know they hurt her and they scared her and this kills me..

 

I'm not painting you to be a monster. You're actions have done that. You have mistreated her and when she said enough you persist to badger and disrespect her wishes. It doesn't matter how much remorse you feel, a man who murders his wife can be sorry, but she's still dead. Being sorry doesn't erase the pain and wrongs you have done.

 

Why would you go to a therapist for a year if it wasn't helping, you had to be slapped in the face before you really did anything. So how is it any different? You aren't any different if you still act like this, but you didn't care at all until she got away, until she broke your control. Now that she's out of your control you're scared to death because now you see how your faking treatment didn't pass and how you can't make her do what you want.

[GoingForIt_77]

Faking Treatment??? I'm getting a lot of angry women trying to tear me apart on here. You know, what you are doing is quite "abusive" in your own rights right now. Nothing about my treatment was FAKE. I worked very hard in my sessions with a man who never had anything to say to me... There was a lot of frustration and hard times with that and MANY times I told my ex that she should leave me, because of what I had to get a hold of. She refused to want to leave. She said that I could NOT get rid of her. That she would support me through good and bad...

 

Nothing about me is fake. I am a genuine guy, with a big heart and maybe I am controlling and insecure. I don't claim not to be and I am trying very hard to work on that. It is difficult and that is a fact...

 

Me loving her (being in love with her) doesn't necessarily equate to me just wanting to control her. there is goodness in me too.